View Full Version : Shot Show 2022
So are we going to see any great stuff posted here on from the shot show?
Flint_Ironstag
01-21-22, 14:18
Guess the Corps don't get theirs. :laugh:
Palmetto State bought the H&R company and rights to make retro Vietnam era AR15 ! My credit card is ready to go. Complete guns to be available late this year, price has not been announced.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX0kEurikfg
Diamondback
01-22-22, 21:38
Palmetto State bought the H&R company and rights to make retro Vietnam era AR15 ! My credit card is ready to go. Complete guns to be available late this year, price has not been announced.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX0kEurikfg
For a confidence builder, H&R is being run as a sister company under JJE Capital separate from Palmetto--this is part of why JJE bought NoDak Spud, an instant boost of Retro Cred from the NDS line with Mike from NDS now CEO of the business-unit to provide a skilled and steady hand at the helm.
Seems like a lot of new night time stuff was released, but all of the stuff I’ve seen is pricey no budget stuff. I’m kinda interested in the PSA 5.7 pistol. Oh and some pretty cool bolt guns.
I'm kind of underwhelmed. Didn't go, since I'm not industry, but the IG accounts of a lot of folks were very ho-hum.
So .... someone that was there, please correct me! I'd love to see some new stuff, that isn't just rehashed stuff. PSA is interesting, Aimpoint made another cheaper RDS, LMT has pistols and TNVC made more binoculars. Did I miss anything?
Everything I've seen has been a bunch of CCP Lovers and Holosun shills. A bunch of Chinese optics and lights. Aimpoint and Eotech debuted new optics and everyone has shit on them with "hoLlErSuN iS cHeApEr aNd BeTtUr". Bushmaster put out some straight pull bolt action AR10. Aero Precision revealed a new suppressor and rifle with chassis. Quad stack magazine receiver from Desert Tech. Oh, and Magpul introduced their "revolutionary" AR15 dust cover.
Everything I've seen has been a bunch of CCP Lovers and Holosun shills. A bunch of Chinese optics and lights. Aimpoint and Eotech debuted new optics and everyone has shit on them with "hoLlErSuN iS cHeApEr aNd BeTtUr". Bushmaster put out some straight pull bolt action AR10. Aero Precision revealed a new suppressor and rifle with chassis. Quad stack magazine receiver from Desert Tech. Oh, and Magpul introduced their "revolutionary" AR15 dust cover.
Century Arms also debuted some crap. Haven't seen anything I really "need" and it's hard not to laugh at the videos of the "new, amazing garbage." Even worse are some of the channel pumping up ALL of the "new and amazing garbage."
I suppose I should think positive and realize the "crappy new junk at shot" videos saved me a lot of time and money by not attending. I can see what I missed and I didn't miss much.
If it had beef jerky, scented candles, and open admission it would be just another gun show.
gamewarden
01-24-22, 08:21
B&T had a lot of new stuff. Suppressors made in the USA (one with a very innovative 3-lug attachment method) and the SPC were the big ones. Also, all the rifle caliber APC's got the "Pro" treatment. There is also a B&T ACR stock that will be coming.
Geissele 6 ARC guns shot very nice! They have a new stock or two as well...and some muzzle devices.
Surefire went "Turbo" (back into Candela's) on X300 Ultra, Scout's and a hand held or two. Price will be slightly more (~$25-$50) than non "Turbo" versions.
Mystery Ranch introduced 4 new Assault packs that look very promising.
Modlite had a replacement head to be used on some legacy lights to update them.
Unity had a new magnifier mount that fit's basically all the non-aimpoint magnifiers.
Everyone makes a bolt action chassis pretty much now...
FN finally released a non-reciprocating charging handle on the SCAR.
What? Nobody is jazzed about the new 30 Super Carry from Federal? Almost as powerful as a 9mm with two more rounds in the mag. Have we learned nothing from 357 SIG? I sure home Federal isn't wasting valuable production line time that could be spent doing something the market needs like cranking out more 9mm range ammo.
What about the new long stroke recoil “AR-10”?
Almost as powerful as a 9mm with two more rounds in the mag. Have we learned nothing from 357 SIG? what do these two sentences have in common?
What about the new long stroke recoil “AR-10”?
Who’s doing that?
what do these two sentences have in common?
357 SIG was developed to cover a gap between the 9mm and the 40. Which it did for a brief period of time until 9mm +P+ hit the scene. Much in the same way the 30 Super Carry is trying to cover the gap between 380 and 9mm. I loved the 357 SIG for a brief period of time but eventually went back to 9mm. As a side note I also think the branding, defining it as a SIG cartridge, also did not help its overall adoption. If they had called it the 9mm Magnum it would have grown some legs. Nobody (except Glock) wants to cross brand their models based on caliber.
Mars Inc. (never heard of them) but I don’t think they know what recoil is if they think a long stroke is going to have less felt recoil.)
https://youtu.be/h_ymleH_e3A
gamewarden
01-24-22, 17:54
I believe the FN SCAR NRCH came out in August. Recoil had an article I believe.
357 SIG was developed to cover a gap between the 9mm and the 40. Which it did for a brief period of time until 9mm +P+ hit the scene. Much in the same way the 30 Super Carry is trying to cover the gap between 380 and 9mm. I loved the 357 SIG for a brief period of time but eventually went back to 9mm. As a side note I also think the branding, defining it as a SIG cartridge, also did not help its overall adoption. If they had called it the 9mm Magnum it would have grown some legs. Nobody (except Glock) wants to cross brand their models based on caliber.
I’m not convinced its trying to fill a gap between .380 and 9mm. Its a 50,000psi cartridge with the same overall length as 9mm. It is only going to work in weapons that are suitable for 9mm because of those two things. The goal appears to be to simply add ammo capacity without losing energy. More like what the 10mm would do to compete with .45. than what the .357Sig did to compete with 9mm or .40.
Just speculation.
Edit: my point is just that while both of the sentences I pointed out make perfect sense, their proximity confused me. Wasn’t meant to be argumentative.
Mars Inc. (never heard of them) but I don’t think they know what recoil is if they think a long stroke is going to have less felt recoil.)
https://youtu.be/h_ymleH_e3A
Thanks.
I would rather see our manufactures dedicate themselves to making more ammo and primers at less than stupid prices.
I’m not convinced its trying to fill a gap between .380 and 9mm. Its a 50,000psi cartridge with the same overall length as 9mm. It is only going to work in weapons that are suitable for 9mm because of those two things. The goal appears to be to simply add ammo capacity without losing energy. More like what the 10mm would do to compete with .45. than what the .357Sig did to compete with 9mm or .40.
Just speculation.
Edit: my point is just that while both of the sentences I pointed out make perfect sense, their proximity confused me. Wasn’t meant to be argumentative.
Thanks.
No worries. I didn't take your comment as being argumentative at all. I watched the review with the Federal rep and even with the 50,000 PSI chamber pressure they were quoting numbers that were mush lower than +P or +P+ 9mm rounds. Check out the Federal comparison chart / marketing. Notice they only compare it to standard 9mm defensive loads and make claims that its just as good as. But once you measure it against a stouter 9mm load it falls behind pretty quickly in all areas.
https://www.federalpremium.com/30supercarry.html
I like to use this chart for comparison. Sure, if Federal cherry picks which 9mm load they want to compare it to they can make those claims all day long. But there are rounds on this chart that leave it in the dust. To me I don't the two rounds extra capacity as enough reason to switch from 9mm.
http://ballistics101.com/9mm.php
Also note in their marketing material they are marketing it squarely as "more power than a 380 and more capacity than a 9mm." Was that really a void that needed filled?
B&T had a lot of new stuff. Suppressors made in the USA (one with a very innovative 3-lug attachment method) and the SPC were the big ones. Also, all the rifle caliber APC's got the "Pro" treatment. There is also a B&T ACR stock that will be coming.
Geissele 6 ARC guns shot very nice! They have a new stock or two as well...and some muzzle devices.
Surefire went "Turbo" (back into Candela's) on X300 Ultra, Scout's and a hand held or two. Price will be slightly more (~$25-$50) than non "Turbo" versions.
Mystery Ranch introduced 4 new Assault packs that look very promising.
Modlite had a replacement head to be used on some legacy lights to update them.
Unity had a new magnifier mount that fit's basically all the non-aimpoint magnifiers.
Everyone makes a bolt action chassis pretty much now...
Any info on MR packs?
gamewarden
01-25-22, 14:57
Any info on MR packs?
https://soldiersystems.net/2022/01/19/shot-show-22-mystery-ranch-launches-4-new-light-packs/
LowSpeed_HighDrag
01-25-22, 15:32
Nothing that really interested me beyond the Holosun 509 Micro and the new Modlite products.
357 SIG was developed to cover a gap between the 9mm and the 40. Which it did for a brief period of time until 9mm +P+ hit the scene. Much in the same way the 30 Super Carry is trying to cover the gap between 380 and 9mm. I loved the 357 SIG for a brief period of time but eventually went back to 9mm. As a side note I also think the branding, defining it as a SIG cartridge, also did not help its overall adoption. If they had called it the 9mm Magnum it would have grown some legs. Nobody (except Glock) wants to cross brand their models based on caliber.
So to start 9mm +P+ existed long before anyone dreamed up .357 SIG. Then .357SIG has much higher muzzle velocities than .40, the fastest .40 can't catch the slowest .357 SIG. Additionally HK and several other manufacturers chambered for the .357 SIG.
It was the fact that the Glock in .40 was adopted in huge numbers that let it own the market over .357 SIG and 10mm and not the actual ballistic performance. They were also all three being driven on the civilian side my a 10 round magazine limitation law.
No worries. I didn't take your comment as being argumentative at all. I watched the review with the Federal rep and even with the 50,000 PSI chamber pressure they were quoting numbers that were mush lower than +P or +P+ 9mm rounds. Check out the Federal comparison chart / marketing. Notice they only compare it to standard 9mm defensive loads and make claims that its just as good as. But once you measure it against a stouter 9mm load it falls behind pretty quickly in all areas.
https://www.federalpremium.com/30supercarry.html
I like to use this chart for comparison. Sure, if Federal cherry picks which 9mm load they want to compare it to they can make those claims all day long. But there are rounds on this chart that leave it in the dust. To me I don't the two rounds extra capacity as enough reason to switch from 9mm.
http://ballistics101.com/9mm.php
Also note in their marketing material they are marketing it squarely as "more power than a 380 and more capacity than a 9mm." Was that really a void that needed filled?
This seems typical of Federal’s new cartridge marketing. Perhaps everyone’s, but I notice it with Federal. They cherry pick an existing cartridge and load, then make a comparison that it’ll barely live up to. Then when everyone decides that it doesn’t do much more than that, it slowly dies. .338Fed was marketed as having muzzle energy like a 7mm magnum, but fits in a short action, where it also competed well in muzzle energy. Sure, with a light-for-caliber bullet, I guess. .327…. More power than .38, more capacity than .357. That one should have been more successful; it does those things well, in a niche that needs those things. .224 Valk is another one that looks good with specific comparisons, but turns out to not be all that special.
So to start 9mm +P+ existed long before anyone dreamed up .357 SIG. Then .357SIG has much higher muzzle velocities than .40, the fastest .40 can't catch the slowest .357 SIG. Additionally HK and several other manufacturers chambered for the .357 SIG.
It was the fact that the Glock in .40 was adopted in huge numbers that let it own the market over .357 SIG and 10mm and not the actual ballistic performance. They were also all three being driven on the civilian side my a 10 round magazine limitation law.
I see from your profile pic you are late for a meeting with The Bobs so I will keep this short :D
Definitely could have worded it better concerning the +P+ I should have said advancements in that load put it on par with the 357SIG. Think Buffalo Bore pushing 500 ft lbs at 1400 fps or so comes to mind with an expansion over .50. Underwood was another one.
As for adoption, who else other than HK, Glock and Sig chambered in that round (that's an honest question because I don't recall.) HKs were impossible to find (I put conversion barrel in my USP 40 and recall it was like finding a unicorn.) I had to special order my G32 and G33 (which I carried both for years) as none of my LGS's stocked the caliber. I think the only one I saw in a gun case on a regular basis was the Sig. I do think the more realistic route people took to sample that round was putting conversion barrels in their current 40 cal guns but thats just a guess on my part.
Given the 40 came out in 1990 in large part due to the FBI looking for a more powerful carry round after the 86 Miami shootout I think it was a foregone conclusion when they adopted it as the "solution" to the underpowered 9mm that the public and manufacturers were going to follow suit. Especially Glock who I believe had the FBI contract back then? Followed by PDs across the country. Essentially I am agreeing with you but also think, at least for me, the ballistic advantage shrunk over time due to round development which made the additional cost of the 357 SIG not worth it for someone like me and my buddies who like to shoot a lot. For the guy who carries and then only takes it out for practice once a year? Not so much. I see the same thing happening with this cartridge.
As for adoption, who else other than HK, Glock and Sig chambered in that round (that's an honest question because I don't recall.)
I think Kimber, S&W, and Beretta did .357Sig also. There’s probably more, but as you said, its adoption has been rather limited. I don’t think anyone really sold a ton of them or marketed them all that much. Also as you said, I think Sig putting its name on it kinda sabotaged it, since unlike some other new cartridges of its era, you can’t just drop the “Sig” part when you say “.357” without causing some confusion.
additional cost of the 357 SIG not worth it for someone like me and my buddies who like to shoot a lot. For the guy who carries and then only takes it out for practice once a year? Not so much. I see the same thing happening with this cartridge.
Yeah, the niche for it didn't really work out because:
1) the dude that would otherwise shoot a bunch of ammo in practice can’t afford to. Or, can afford to, but could practice twice as much with 9mm.
2) the dude that reloads could reload it for much cheaper than factory ammo, but it is bottlenecked, therefore more tedious. He can reload more 9mm for the same work and less cost.
3) the dude that fits neither of those stereotypes that shoots a box a year… this cartridge doesn’t really suit that style. Sure, thats true of 9mm, also, but 357 comes with more recoil, blast, and flash, but less capacity. It’s an “expert’s cartridge”, but most experts don’t find that its worth it over 9mm.
Its too bad; .357 Sig is a cool cartridge, despite not really needing to exist. I can see the new 30SC cartridge potentially falling victim to some of the above. I also wouldn’t mind a little more capacity in my 43.
I think Kimber, S&W, and Beretta did .357Sig also. There’s probably more, but as you said, its adoption has been rather limited. I don’t think anyone really sold a ton of them or marketed them all that much. Also as you said, I think Sig putting its name on it kinda sabotaged it, since unlike some other new cartridges of its era, you can’t just drop the “Sig” part when you say “.357” without causing some confusion.
Yeah, the niche for it didn't really work out because:
1) the dude that would otherwise shoot a bunch of ammo in practice can’t afford to. Or, can afford to, but could practice twice as much with 9mm.
2) the dude that reloads could reload it for much cheaper than factory ammo, but it is bottlenecked, therefore more tedious. He can reload more 9mm for the same work and less cost.
3) the dude that fits neither of those stereotypes that shoots a box a year… this cartridge doesn’t really suit that style. Sure, thats true of 9mm, also, but 357 comes with more recoil, blast, and flash, but less capacity. It’s an “expert’s cartridge”, but most experts don’t find that its worth it over 9mm.
Its too bad; .357 Sig is a cool cartridge, despite not really needing to exist. I can see the new 30SC cartridge potentially falling victim to some of the above. I also wouldn’t mind a little more capacity in my 43.
Exactly. I really like the round but the economics never made sense for me. Pre covid I was going through 1000 plus rounds a month shooting 9mm in both practice and one match a month. I couldn't afford to keep up with that pace with 357 SIG. Plus the few matches I did shoot with it (just for fun) were less than enjoyable for all the reasons you mentioned. Splits and transitions suffered. Though it did punish the bowling pins on a few stages lol.
I see from your profile pic you are late for a meeting with The Bobs so I will keep this short :D
Definitely could have worded it better concerning the +P+ I should have said advancements in that load put it on par with the 357SIG. Think Buffalo Bore pushing 500 ft lbs at 1400 fps or so comes to mind with an expansion over .50. Underwood was another one.
As for adoption, who else other than HK, Glock and Sig chambered in that round (that's an honest question because I don't recall.) HKs were impossible to find (I put conversion barrel in my USP 40 and recall it was like finding a unicorn.) I had to special order my G32 and G33 (which I carried both for years) as none of my LGS's stocked the caliber. I think the only one I saw in a gun case on a regular basis was the Sig. I do think the more realistic route people took to sample that round was putting conversion barrels in their current 40 cal guns but thats just a guess on my part.
Given the 40 came out in 1990 in large part due to the FBI looking for a more powerful carry round after the 86 Miami shootout I think it was a foregone conclusion when they adopted it as the "solution" to the underpowered 9mm that the public and manufacturers were going to follow suit. Especially Glock who I believe had the FBI contract back then? Followed by PDs across the country. Essentially I am agreeing with you but also think, at least for me, the ballistic advantage shrunk over time due to round development which made the additional cost of the 357 SIG not worth it for someone like me and my buddies who like to shoot a lot. For the guy who carries and then only takes it out for practice once a year? Not so much. I see the same thing happening with this cartridge.
Well here is the first problem, 9mm +P+ isn't meant for most handguns. It's a subgun round that destroys handguns so it doesn't really put it on par with .357 SIG which is designed to function with that round.
Minor nit pick, FBI actually went 10mm after the 86 shootout. Both the .357 SIG and the .40 were scaled down versions of the 10mm because everyone felt the 10mm was too much and for whatever reason the .40 won the "vhs vs beta" war. Ironically a nearly identical cartridge .41 Action Express was developed by IMI mid 80s and was completely ignored by everyone. The .41 AE might be superior to all of them but nobody was paying attention.
And yeah, for lots of reasons people played "wait and see" with both the .40 and the .357 SIG. I had no trouble getting a USP compact in .357 SIG. At the time all of these calibers were sorta like 10mm and exotics. If PDs across the country all went with Glock in .357 SIG that would have been the standard, but I think being a hotter round when it came to "everyone" being able to qualify, people decided to go with the .40 S&W and it's not a terrible round or anything. There was the issue of unsupported chambers in .40 Glocks but that is a design problem with the Glock and not a problem with the round.
And for the record, and just so you don't think this is serious debate, I carry 9mm almost exclusively.
Alaskapopo
01-29-22, 12:42
So to start 9mm +P+ existed long before anyone dreamed up .357 SIG. Then .357SIG has much higher muzzle velocities than .40, the fastest .40 can't catch the slowest .357 SIG. Additionally HK and several other manufacturers chambered for the .357 SIG.
It was the fact that the Glock in .40 was adopted in huge numbers that let it own the market over .357 SIG and 10mm and not the actual ballistic performance. They were also all three being driven on the civilian side my a 10 round magazine limitation law.
Just a minor correction the fastest 40s did out run the heavy bullet 357 sigs (135 grain 40 vs 150 grain 357 sig) in fact if bullet weight was kept equal the 40 had a slight edge comparing 150 grain bullets to 155 grain bullets.
Pat
Alaskapopo
01-29-22, 12:46
357 SIG was developed to cover a gap between the 9mm and the 40. Which it did for a brief period of time until 9mm +P+ hit the scene. Much in the same way the 30 Super Carry is trying to cover the gap between 380 and 9mm. I loved the 357 SIG for a brief period of time but eventually went back to 9mm. As a side note I also think the branding, defining it as a SIG cartridge, also did not help its overall adoption. If they had called it the 9mm Magnum it would have grown some legs. Nobody (except Glock) wants to cross brand their models based on caliber.
With respect no the 357 was not meant to fill the gap between the 9mm and 40. It was marketed to give 357 magnum performance into a semi auto pistol. The Evan Marshall research was popular back then and the idea is it would sell. In reality its more like a 9mm +p++.
Pat
Just a minor correction the fastest 40s did out run the heavy bullet 357 sigs (135 grain 40 vs 150 grain 357 sig) in fact if bullet weight was kept equal the 40 had a slight edge comparing 150 grain bullets to 155 grain bullets.
Pat
I though the .357 SIG had a lot more powder charge behind it?
Wasn't that one of the factors that led to LE adopting the .40 because .357 SIG was more prone to over penetration?
Alaskapopo
01-29-22, 23:00
A bit less case capacity actually due to the bottle neck. I used to be a big 357 Sig fan back in the day. Accurate round but not that much more powerful than a hot 9mm.
Alaskapopo
01-29-22, 23:04
Also the 357 Sig came after the 40. It never really had that many departments like the 40 did. As for over
Penetration not anymore than any other service caliber depending on bullet type used of course.
With respect no the 357 was not meant to fill the gap between the 9mm and 40. It was marketed to give 357 magnum performance into a semi auto pistol.
Which was an admirable goal, I spent a decade trying to do just that in the late 70s and early 80s with 38 super and then later 41 AE.
When 10 mm went more mainstream in the mid-80s and Delta Elites fell from favor I picked one up and shot 10 mm since.
I was looking for 357 performance in a commander size package. 357 SIG delivers that in a 9 mm pistol format, which is pretty cool.
I do believe the mainstreaming of quality +P 9 mm loadings made the step up to 357 sig not worth the change for most. Especially agencies.
So to start 9mm +P+ existed long before anyone dreamed up .357 SIG. Then .357SIG has much higher muzzle velocities than .40, the fastest .40 can't catch the slowest .357 SIG. Additionally HK and several other manufacturers chambered for the .357 SIG.
It was the fact that the Glock in .40 was adopted in huge numbers that let it own the market over .357 SIG and 10mm and not the actual ballistic performance. They were also all three being driven on the civilian side my a 10 round magazine limitation law.
As you said, that i was gonna say, 9mm +p+ existed a long time before the .357 Sig. The .357 Sig was not designed to fill any gaps per se. There's a reason it, like some others that had a short run, are called a "solution in search of a problem." It didn't solve any problems, didn't fill any gaps, and rode on the .357 Mags rep as a man stopper, which didn't apply to modern JHPs. I believe the only place .357 Sig remained in use, perhaps still in use (?) was among state troopers as it did perform well against intermediate barriers that troopers more likely to deal with (e.g. car windshields etc) compared to other rnds tested at the time.
Alaskapopo
01-30-22, 10:06
Which was an admirable goal, I spent a decade trying to do just that in the late 70s and early 80s with 38 super and then later 41 AE.
When 10 mm went more mainstream in the mid-80s and Delta Elites fell from favor I picked one up and shot 10 mm since.
I was looking for 357 performance in a commander size package. 357 SIG delivers that in a 9 mm pistol format, which is pretty cool.
I do believe the mainstreaming of quality +P 9 mm loadings made the step up to 357 sig not worth the change for most. Especially agencies.
What made me drop the caliber was comparing the 357 Sig at the time to the 9mm rounds and only seeing about 100 to 150 fps speed advantage and no real penetration or expansion advantage at that point I dropped it and went 9mm. There was also annoying problems like less feed reliability due to the bottle neck design in some platforms despite advertising to the contrary. The round was prone to nose diving on the feed ramp. There were also issues with bullet set back due to limited neck tension.
What made me drop the caliber was comparing the 357 Sig at the time to the 9mm rounds and only seeing about 100 to 150 fps speed advantage and no real penetration or expansion advantage at that point I dropped it and went 9mm. There was also annoying problems like less feed reliability due to the bottle neck design in some platforms despite advertising to the contrary. The round was prone to nose diving on the feed ramp. There were also issues with bullet set back due to limited neck tension.
Thanks for the clarifications. What of the often touted "same ballistics as the .357 magnum but in an auto cartridge?" Was that just manufacturer BS?
I only have one, a USP C, and while it's a bit snappy, I enjoy shooting the round. That said, for EDC when you factor in quality defensive ammo, I'm a 9mm guy most of the time. The only reason I explored .45s, 10mm and other was due to the Clinton ban on magazine capacity for handguns.
Alaskapopo
01-30-22, 21:39
Thanks for the clarifications. What of the often touted "same ballistics as the .357 magnum but in an auto cartridge?" Was that just manufacturer BS?
I only have one, a USP C, and while it's a bit snappy, I enjoy shooting the round. That said, for EDC when you factor in quality defensive ammo, I'm a 9mm guy most of the time. The only reason I explored .45s, 10mm and other was due to the Clinton ban on magazine capacity for handguns.
I was young and dumb and fell for the bigger or faster is always better thing back then. I do like the 10mm for bear defense for similar reasons I like the 9mm for personal defense. Compared to big bore revolvers I shoot it better and faster and it can do well with good shot placement. Don’t care for the 10mm as a carry gun for non animals though.
Exiledviking
01-31-22, 01:00
Thanks for the clarifications. What of the often touted "same ballistics as the .357 magnum but in an auto cartridge?" Was that just manufacturer BS?
That was primarily BS as the real-world velocity numbers for the .357 SIG didn't come close to the .357 Mag. Like AlaskaPopo said, the real-world velocity of the SIG cartridge was only 100 to 150 (at best) fps better than the 9mm. Once I saw those numbers myself, I gave up on that round.
FWIW, I had a G31 that was a tack driver (I also had a P229, but I only regret [slightly] selling the G31).
S&W should have marketed their .356 TSW round better...
Palmetto State Armory announces they are going to produce M1 Garands
I will be curious to see how it turns out.
https://thegunfeed.com/palmetto-state-armory-announces-they-are-going-to-produce-m1-garands/
Diamondback
02-03-22, 21:19
I will be curious to see how it turns out.
https://thegunfeed.com/palmetto-state-armory-announces-they-are-going-to-produce-m1-garands/
If it's an H&R project that means Mike from NoDak Spud will be running the show, and he's usually done solid work before. Hopefully they come out with stripped receivers and DIY build kits in addition...
If it's an H&R project that means Mike from NoDak Spud will be running the show, and he's usually done solid work before. Hopefully they come out with stripped receivers and DIY build kits in addition...
One can only hope. The NDS guys are great. Fantastic to deal with and good work too. I'm not exactly holding my breath though, considering the whole PSA in charge deal. Something something AK's & MP5's... I hope it turns out though.
Diamondback
02-04-22, 10:49
Before he retired, Harlan told me that H&R is being run as a totally separate company under JJE Capital Holdings, but Mike would be in a position to crack the whip over at PSA too. At least, IF I'm recalling our discussion right.
Before he retired, Harlan told me that H&R is being run as a totally separate company under JJE Capital Holdings, but Mike would be in a position to crack the whip over at PSA too. At least, IF I'm recalling our discussion right.
I had wondered if Harlan was moving over too. Solid guy. Helped me out countless times with questions on those XM16 lowers. That's about in line with what I've heard at least. Hope it all turns out.
Diamondback
02-04-22, 13:53
I was one of the last orders out the door before the pack-up, and Harlan shepherded it through all the way. One of the rockstars in the industry, and he'll definitely be missed.
Ned Christiansen
02-05-22, 13:36
That H&R / PSA thing is of interest. Honestly if someone had laid the H&R brand at my feet it might have gone to waste. I can't claim I'd have thought of what they are doing. This guy had the smarts to parlay it into retro AR's and no doubt will take it further. Making H&R great again!
Some of my faves from SHOT 2022:
--Turkish stuff. I've been impressed with Turkish shotguns for years now. I decided to really check out the pistols. They are pretty dang good, I say with some reluctance. Some of the lesser-known US brands are not impressive; Tisas 1911's were. 'Course it didn't hurt at all that all the Turks manning the booths were just the cooled of dudes, I really enjoyed them. They knew their stuff and also were good listeners.
--This guy:
https://gasblockgenie.com/
was animated and enthusiastic about his stuff, and I thought they were very clever tools. Worth a look if you're building AR's. His bolt catch "roll pin wizard"... we had a good laugh about all the Colts we have both seen with black paint, right out of the box, from where they scratched it putting this pin in.
--The take-down AR from Cry Havoc https://cryhavoctac.com/. I got introduced to the guy by my friend at SIG. This is said to be strapped to the ejection seat of our fighters. I've checked it out some it gonna be getting some live-with time.
--The Ounce .22. A ten-shooter that is really, really different. I would have one-- some day-- because innovators deserve to be recognized.
https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/10-rounds-of-22-lr-in-a-tiny-semi-auto-package-shot-show-2022/?utm_source=email&utm_medium=20220125_SHOT_04&utm_campaign=/digest/10-rounds-of-22-lr-in-a-tiny-semi-auto-package-shot-show-2022/
--ZRO Delta. Good looking stuff, made here, granted at prices that say made here, but.... not made by opposers of human rights and all that. ZRO-D is hooked up at some level with US Optics.
--Innovation in general-- we saw lots of small operations with big new ideas. That's where a lot of the good stuff comes from, folks-- let inventors invent dammit! without punishing them with burdensome regulations and unaffordable patent fees. Some of the big boys too-- I mean who can better afford to hire a bunch of smart and/or experienced and/or degreed engineers who have maybe worked elsewhere in the firearms biz? Who can better afford state of the art R&D facilities and the latest CAD software? And yet..... many of them, honestly fall short on innovation. They make up for it by copying each other, or by copying the little guy who struggled and put it on the line to generate a new idea; they make up for it by announcing "look what we did (copied)" on the back cover of all the gun magazines. They make up for it by spending lots of money promoting it and making it seem like a new idea, making it seem like it was their idea.
--Many friends. WMD Guns. Michael Bane and Patrick Sweeney. The Farnams. Got some celeb pics with them and Garand Thumb, Colion Noir, and a few others.
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--This guy:
https://gasblockgenie.com/
was animated and enthusiastic about his stuff, and I thought they were very clever tools. Worth a look if you're building AR's. His bolt catch "roll pin wizard"... we had a good laugh about all the Colts we have both seen with black paint, right out of the box, from where they scratched it putting this pin in.
--
That “roll pin wizard” is cool as heck. I usually use the starter I got from kak, but I may give this one a go going forward. It’s the little things like that which makes assembly a breeze.
Diamondback
02-05-22, 15:10
That H&R / PSA thing is of interest. Honestly if someone had laid the H&R brand at my feet it might have gone to waste. I can't claim I'd have thought of what they are doing. This guy had the smarts to parlay it into retro AR's and no doubt will take it further. Making H&R great again!
--The take-down AR from Cry Havoc https://cryhavoctac.com/. I got introduced to the guy by my friend at SIG. This is said to be strapped to the ejection seat of our fighters. I've checked it out some it gonna be getting some live-with time.
--
Ned, look up "GAU-5 Aircrew Self Defense Weapon." It uses a Midwest rail, and Midwest offers both upper-only and complete pistol builds. Pretty sweet piece of kit, I'd like to know more about how it and the mags are packed in the survival kit so I can eventually build a museum-quality replica.
Please let Pat and Mike know some of us back at the old haunt still miss them, also. :)
The_War_Wagon
03-28-22, 16:48
How 'bout a booth babe thread!
"The take-down AR from Cry Havoc https://cryhavoctac.com/."
My Army Buddy has bought one as a "kit" in hardcase that has 5.56 and 300 B.O. barrels and magazines set-up similar to the USAF pilot ejection seat kit. Interesting setup, I got to look it over but not to shoot it. Funny his G.F. is in USAF. Neither one knew that it's a civ copy of it.
Diamondback
07-25-22, 00:11
"The take-down AR from Cry Havoc https://cryhavoctac.com/."
My Army Buddy has bought one as a "kit" in hardcase that has 5.56 and 300 B.O. barrels and magazines set-up similar to the USAF pilot ejection seat kit. Interesting setup, I got to look it over but not to shoot it. Funny his G.F. is in USAF. Neither one knew that it's a civ copy of it.
Be interesting to hear more about that kit--since I can't find any data about a COTS version of the USAF Survival Kit case, I'm toying with the idea of one of these Midway bags for a "Bail-Out Kit" to hold the project should it proceed, barring further interference from the human-shaped piles of dogshit in DC.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/939360569?pid=367483
On my bucket list to attend SHOT. Maybe this is the year.
I don't have much info on it but that the whole kit was pretty pricey around ($3000.°°) for it. Rifle, case, barrels, BCG, 5 each magazines, optic, sling. Companies logo on inside lid, form fit case cutouts. The company who made the take down upper had sold some. Somewhere he seen it, bought it then had shipped to local FFL for pickup. I had read about USAF bail out take down kit, seen photos. The case or even just the carbine is heavy in my opinion. My pig form 1 suppressor on 10.5 SBR is lighter. The Dolos and MGI's I've seen and I've had so so results with a MGI one. I'd would have went with a Knights, LaRue or Lewis myself. But I'm not one to drop in to a Ford dealership buy a F350 top model with cash either.
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