View Full Version : Move from Trijicon RMR to Holosun HE508T-RD X2
I am looking for input on the Holosun HE508T-RD X2.
Specifically, swapping an RMR for this RDS. Using both reticles for increased speed/accuracy, reliability (concealed carry), and the functionality/usability of the dot (e.g., refresh rate, brightness, clarity, adjustment to different levels of light).
I saw a few reviews on the Holosun with most being positive. It seems to be hardy, reliable, and of good quality. It’s also not expensive. Despite its origin, it might be fun to try something new on my carry Zev, or 1911. Especially since it has the same footprint as the RMR.
The Holosun has a few things I like over the RMR:
1. Simple battery replacement which is nice but minor given the once a year swap.
2. The EOTech style red dot which may increase my speed and accuracy a bit.
3. Titanium frame.
Thoughts?
dontshakepandas
02-06-22, 12:10
I have a few of each that I use for different purposes.
I'm using RMR on handguns and the Holosuns piggybacked on top of LPVOs and in that role the battery replacement without having to remove the optic is a big plus for me. I don't mind having to confirm zero on a pistol after swapping a battery since I shoot my pistols often, but getting to a rifle range to rezero is a lot more inconvenient.
The EOTech style reticle can be helpful for speed, but its a little busy/cramped for precision shots. I prefer the single dot on either of them, but the RMR is better in that regard since the auto brightness works better.
The titanium frame isn't really an advantage or disadvantage. The shape of the RMR will give it the edge in durability regardless of the material. I prefer the buttons on the RMR over the ones on the 508t as well.
If you already have RMRs that are working for you, I wouldn't bother swapping them out. If you are looking at picking up optics for new guns and want to save some money the Holosun is a solid choice.
You may consider waiting for Holosun to release their new enclosed models which ̶a̶l̶s̶o̶ ̶u̶s̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶R̶M̶R̶ ̶f̶o̶o̶t̶p̶r̶i̶n̶t̶ use the RMSc/507k footprint, use the bigger buttons, and are supposed to be distortion free. ̶I̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶a̶ ̶5̶0̶8̶T̶ ̶w̶h̶i̶c̶h̶ ̶I̶ ̶l̶i̶k̶e̶ ̶a̶ ̶l̶o̶t̶,̶ ̶b̶u̶t̶ ̶i̶f̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶n̶e̶w̶ ̶m̶o̶d̶e̶l̶s̶ ̶p̶a̶n̶ ̶o̶u̶t̶,̶ ̶I̶'̶l̶l̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶s̶w̶a̶p̶p̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶n̶e̶w̶ ̶H̶o̶l̶o̶s̶u̶n̶ ̶E̶P̶S̶ ̶s̶i̶g̶h̶t̶.̶
ETA:
https://holosun.com/index/product/detail/id/212.html
https://holosun.com/uploads/20220119/5047179c812744fd65abeac76ee80ce3.png
https://holosun.com/uploads/20220119/f64ff799284ca19eb8981a639c4b8276.png
dontshakepandas
02-06-22, 13:09
You may consider waiting for Holosun to release their new enclosed models which also use the RMR footprint, use the bigger buttons, and are supposed to be distortion free. I have a 508T which I like a lot, but if the new models pan out, I'll be swapping it for the new Holosun EPS sight.
ETA:
https://holosun.com/index/product/detail/id/212.html
https://holosun.com/uploads/20220119/5047179c812744fd65abeac76ee80ce3.png
https://holosun.com/uploads/20220119/f64ff799284ca19eb8981a639c4b8276.png
Those do not use the RMR mounting pattern. They use the same footprint as the 507k, which is similar to the Shield RMSc.
Those do not use the RMR mounting pattern. They use the same footprint as the 507k, which is similar to the Shield RMSc.
AFAIK, from listening to the Holosun rep discuss them on YouTube, the EPS Carry uses the RMSc/507k footprint, whereas the EPS is a bit larger and uses the RMR/507c/508t footprint.
ETA: Looks like there may have been a bit of copy pasta on their website between the info for the EPS and EPS Carry. Not sure which info is correct.
ETA 2: Just listened to another video from Shot, and it appears that you're correct. Both the EPS and EPS carry are set for the RMSc/507k footprint.
Those do not use the RMR mounting pattern. They use the same footprint as the 507k, which is similar to the Shield RMSc.
Thank you both for the helpful insights!
I will get one, move the RMR to a different sidearm, and see if it’s a good default RDS.
Best—Dan
dontshakepandas
02-06-22, 14:20
Yeah, its a bummer. I think the screws are too far forward on the RMR footprint for it to work with the closed emitter. The 507k footprint has the screws set further back so it gives them more space to play with up front.
Indeed. I much prefer the closed emitter.
I had the slide of my favorite 1911 milled for an RMR, so I’ll go with the 508T. I am now very curious to try the Holosun on it.
Yeah, its a bummer. I think the screws are too far forward on the RMR footprint for it to work with the closed emitter. The 507k footprint has the screws set further back so it gives them more space to play with up front.I think that's exactly right. Dang! I had plans for that thing!
Still thinking I'm going to replace the 507k on my p365xl with the Carry version of the EPS just cause I'm sick of wiping the lint off the inner part of the window.
Removed the thumbnail of the pic
….just cause I'm sick of wiping the lint off the inner part of the window.
Sigh… especially in winter.
No idea if they will come out with a compatible footprint, but these sound promising especially the description of the auto adjust.
https://youtu.be/t0XxDzCreW8
No idea if they will come out with a compatible footprint, but these sound promising especially the description of the auto adjust.
https://youtu.be/t0XxDzCreW8
HOLOSUN is killing the competition with innovation. I cant wait to get the SCS.
I hope they offer it in the ACSS Reticle
No idea if they will come out with a compatible footprint, but these sound promising especially the description of the auto adjust.
https://youtu.be/t0XxDzCreW8
HOLOSUN is killing the competition with innovation. I cant wait to get the SCS.
I hope they offer it in the ACSS Reticle
The only pistol red dot sights that *I* will be using anymore on my self defensive pistols are closed emitter cross bolt mount type sights like the ACRO, Holosun 509T and Steiner. It will be interesting to see if and when Trijicon comes out with a closed emitter pistol RD sight.
For the price of the 508T, I would just skip on up to the 509T and take the advantage of the enclosed emitter.
The 507 has both reticles and is cheaper than the 508.
For the price of the 508T, I would just skip on up to the 509T and take the advantage of the enclosed emitter.
The 507 has both reticles and is cheaper than the 508.
The alternate Holosun 509T plate that bolts direct to the Glock MOS pattern is really slick, but wasn't sure on the RMR footprint being requested combo. Using the plate included with a 509T that requires an RMR MOS plate ends up being very tall on a Glock to the point I doubt compatible sights exist.
I forgot to add earlier that holsters that have a hood(Safariland comes to mind) could be a no go as well.
If the overall height somehow isn't an issue for OP then I would whole heartedly vote for the 509T over the 508T.
The alternate Holosun 509T plate that bolts direct to the Glock MOS pattern is really slick, but wasn't sure on the RMR footprint being requested combo. Using the plate included with a 509T that requires an RMR MOS plate ends up being very tall on a Glock to the point I doubt compatible sights exist.
I forgot to add earlier that holsters that have a hood(Safariland comes to mind) could be a no go as well.
If the overall height somehow isn't an issue for OP then I would whole heartedly vote for the 509T over the 508T.
Hight is not a problem. I too prefer closed emitters. What I have is a footprint compatibly problem. The 509T won’t install on my 1911 (milled for RMR), or my Zev. See helpful feedback from dontshakepandas and georgeib. That said, it’s a small problem that I will remedy if the Holosun proves to be significantly better than my RMR.
My plan is to get the 508T and test it for a while. If it works out, I will get the 509T for one, and use the 508/RMR on the others.
I already know the RMR works for me and I trust it; it is not going into storage.
But, it’s awesome to have choices for an upgrade.
Tha
Hight is not a problem. I too prefer closed emitters. What I have is a footprint compatibly problem. The 509T won’t install on my 1911 (milled for RMR), or my Zev. See helpful feedback from dontshakepandas and georgeib. That said, it’s a small problem that I will remedy if the Holosun proves to be significantly better than my RMR.
My plan is to get the 508T and test it for a while. If it works out, I will get the 509T for one, and use the 508/RMR on the others.
I already know the RMR works for me and I trust it; it is not going into storage.
But, it’s awesome to have choices for an upgrade.
Tha
I had forgot the 509T RMR plate doesn't work with ZEV and Shadow Systems RMR layout. Weird.
I now have 2 closed emitter RDS, one Holosun and Leupold Delta micro.
I WILL NEVER buy again an open emitter red dot. I took them out in the snow along with RMR, had all 3 in holsters on a gun belt out in the open like a uniformed duty carry. No issues with closed system.
That's it for me.
I now have 2 closed emitter RDS, one Holosun and Leupold Delta micro.
I WILL NEVER buy again an open emitter red dot. I took them out in the snow along with RMR, had all 3 in holsters on a gun belt out in the open like a uniformed duty carry. No issues with closed system.
That's it for me.
Same. I’ll never go back after using a 509T in winter.
I had forgot the 509T RMR plate doesn't work with ZEV and Shadow Systems RMR layout. Weird.
I was surprised and disappointed. It’s a great handgun.
I now have 2 closed emitter RDS, one Holosun and Leupold Delta micro.
I WILL NEVER buy again an open emitter red dot. I took them out in the snow along with RMR, had all 3 in holsters on a gun belt out in the open like a uniformed duty carry. No issues with closed system.
That's it for me.
I live in MN (had to check the if the RDS will function here in winter), and the RMR worked well when it snowed heavily, and it was damn cold. That said, I have at least one layer covering the slide until I shoot; different scenario than yours.
To your point, I can’t imagine running any open emitter on my rifle. Valid point.
I have the 508T-RD and don't usually find the subtle differences most people find. But I only see the case/frame is a bit bigger possible more robust and it cost less. I have one RMR on my VP9 and the Holosun on VP9 long slide. And I find them both just fine.
PB
I've got:
5 guns with RMRs (06 and 09)
2 guns with 508Ts
2 guns with 507Cs
1 gun with a 407C
2 guns with 509Ts
2 guns with 507Ks
1 gun with a Deltapoint Pro
I have also used Holosun and Trijicon long gun red dots.
They're all good. The RMR is arguably very marginally more durable and the Holosun side load battery is a huge advantage. You can say it's "no big deal" to swap an RMR battery once a year or whatever, but if you ever have a battery fail, leave the dot turned up really high, or otherwise have one die unexpectedly, it sucks. If you're a cop with an indoor range in the basement of the PD, great.
I think there's a lot of benefit to the enclosed emitter stuff. For a duty gun carried in a duty holster, I don't see a downside. The enclosed stuff can be a little less concealable because of the larger housing. The upcoming Holosun EPS stuff might change that since the enclosed housing has to fit within the footprint of a 507K. I think launching those with just a 6 MOA dot is going to turn some folks off.
Bottom line: I don't think you can buy either 508T or RMR and really feel like you went the wrong way.
Anyone know when the Holosun EPS carry will be available? I've been running a RMR and 507k, and i'm getting tired of getting stuff on the lenses. I think it's time to move to a closed emitter
I'm surprised how fast that crap builds up in the window. Wont just as much get on the closed emitter window, but be easier to clean off?
sandsunsurf
02-11-22, 10:39
My one suggestion is to try the HS507C-X2 with the ACSS Vulcan reticle. It is a Primary Arms/Holosun co-branded item. It has a VERY large circle and an inner chevron aiming point. If you are off-kilter when first picking up the window, you will see the edge of the circle to help you get back to seeing the chevron.
I thought it was unneeded and just another gimmick. Then I tried it and it’s amazing.
https://www.primaryarms.com/holosun-hs507c-v2-acss-pistol-red-dot-sight-acss-reticle
My one suggestion is to try the HS507C-X2 with the ACSS Vulcan reticle. It is a Primary Arms/Holosun co-branded item. It has a VERY large circle and an inner chevron aiming point. If you are off-kilter when first picking up the window, you will see the edge of the circle to help you get back to seeing the chevron.
I thought it was unneeded and just another gimmick. Then I tried it and it’s amazing.
https://www.primaryarms.com/holosun-hs507c-v2-acss-pistol-red-dot-sight-acss-reticle
I have one on my Glock 19 and it really is a game changer for finding the dot quickly, especially in unconventional shooting positions. Personally, i'm not a huge fan of the chevron though, and i would like to see them come out with a version with the large circle and a 2MOA dot in the middle, but the circle really is amazing. I could see a lot of pistol red dot manufacturers following suit.
I will say this, a lot of people like to shit on Primary Arms and Holosun, but they are innovating WAY more than anyone else in the red dot optics business right now, and i love to see it.
I think it's time to move to a closed emitter
I just installed the 509T on my G45 last night and I'm sold. The sight just seemed more robust than the 507C X2 I had on it.
I'm wondering why there are even open emitters still on the market.
My one suggestion is to try the HS507C-X2 with the ACSS Vulcan reticle. It is a Primary Arms/Holosun co-branded item. It has a VERY large circle and an inner chevron aiming point. If you are off-kilter when first picking up the window, you will see the edge of the circle to help you get back to seeing the chevron.
I thought it was unneeded and just another gimmick. Then I tried it and it’s amazing.
https://www.primaryarms.com/holosun-hs507c-v2-acss-pistol-red-dot-sight-acss-reticle
One of my friends got the ACSS 507 and it is definitely a plus and I think even more so for a first time pistol dot user. At least in my case, there was a learning curve with a pistol dot(and not mitigated much by circle/circle dot options) that I think would have been greatly reduced with the ACSS set up.
I just installed the 509T on my G45 last night and I'm sold. The sight just seemed more robust than the 507C X2 I had on it.
I'm wondering why there are even open emitters still on the market.
Good to hear you like it. I didn't get all the hype about close emitter pistol red dots until i carried with an open emitter rds for a while. They do fine, but it really is a pain pulling up the sight to see a bunch of stuff on the lens. Closed emitter seems better for bad weather as well
WickedWillis
02-15-22, 14:19
Good to hear you like it. I didn't get all the hype about close emitter pistol red dots until i carried with an open emitter rds for a while. They do fine, but it really is a pain pulling up the sight to see a bunch of stuff on the lens. Closed emitter seems better for bad weather as well
I feel like closed emitters will be the future of optics on handguns
It will, as soon as the new 509 w/ACSS Vulcan comes out, I'll get one. Sometime this year.
I'm wondering why there are even open emitters still on the market.
Because it takes time for tech / companies to catchup.
The small Acro Lunchbox and poor battery life started the craze, but it had its issues.
Holosun, for all its being Chineseium, has been far more responsive that Trijicon.
Steiner is still on the market.
And lets be honest, open emitters are fine - yes they have detractors but I have yet to see where someone died because <GASP> they had an OPEN EMITTER! OMG, I have to CLEAN it sometimes. Geez, what a drag....
Yes, I hate dust / lint getting in the RMR / 507s, but it's far from the end of the world for 99.5% of people and situations.
WickedWillis
02-16-22, 11:25
Because it takes time for tech / companies to catchup.
The small Acro Lunchbox and poor battery life started the craze, but it had its issues.
Holosun, for all its being Chineseium, has been far more responsive that Trijicon.
Steiner is still on the market.
And lets be honest, open emitters are fine - yes they have detractors but I have yet to see where someone died because <GASP> they had an OPEN EMITTER! OMG, I have to CLEAN it sometimes. Geez, what a drag....
Yes, I hate dust / lint getting in the RMR / 507s, but it's far from the end of the world for 99.5% of people and situations.
Yes, unless you're dealing with snow, lots of rain or moisture, open emitters work nearly all the time, for most shooters. Cleaning lint out isn't the end of the world but I have had a few range times where the first shot sends pocket snow all over the place.
That being said, like I said earlier, closed emitters are the future. Which makes me wonder when Trijicon is going to put their foot into the closed emitter ring?Aimpoint, Steiner and Holosun all have high quality options in it as we speak.
And lets be honest, open emitters are fine - yes they have detractors but I have yet to see where someone died because <GASP> they had an OPEN EMITTER! OMG, I have to CLEAN it sometimes. Geez, what a drag....
Yes, I hate dust / lint getting in the RMR / 507s, but it's far from the end of the world for 99.5% of people and situations.
It's more than just dealing with lint and cleaning the lens. Get any kind of dirt, rain, snow, etc in front of the emitter, and it really messes up your dot, which, when shooting in real world environments is a legitimate concern.
Open emitter dots are still useful and useable, but with the technology enhancements allowing for smaller closed emitter dots for carry pistols, i don't see any reason NOT to move to a closed emitter dot
I think the rain and snow thing is a red herring. Defensive shootings are already very low occurrence. Of those that occur, very few occur in the rain or snow. When an open emitter optic is exposed to these conditions, it is possible that moisture will cover the emitter and obscure the dot. It is also possible that the movement of the draw will fix this. It is also possible that you will end up with mud or blood on your closed emitter window on an otherwise clear day. Risk is your currency to spend as you see fit. I do not personally see much risk in an open emitter optic.
When we're talking specifically about moving to an enclosed optic, a great reason not to is to spare the expense. Put it into ammo or training.
I think the rain and snow thing is a red herring. Defensive shootings are already very low occurrence. Of those that occur, very few occur in the rain or snow. When an open emitter optic is exposed to these conditions, it is possible that moisture will cover the emitter and obscure the dot. It is also possible that the movement of the draw will fix this. It is also possible that you will end up with mud or blood on your closed emitter window on an otherwise clear day. Risk is your currency to spend as you see fit. I do not personally see much risk in an open emitter optic.
When we're talking specifically about moving to an enclosed optic, a great reason not to is to spare the expense. Put it into ammo or training.
You're probably right that it is low probability, but it's not just rain and snow to worry about. If you've done much shooting in dusty and dirty environments, you know that dirt and dust can and do get in everything. Having an open emitter just isn't as foolproof as a closed emitter. I do agree that it's not a huge issue, but i personally think the reliability benefits of a closed emitter sight on a fighting gun is worth the cost. As soon as the EPS Carry is out, i'll be switching my pistol dots over.
No argument that there are benefits. My duty gun and primary training gun both have 509Ts. I just don't want somebody looking through a thread and thinking they have to replace all their optics.
Primary Arms has the 509T Red ACSS Vulcan reticle available on pre-order, delivery late Feb…. ;)
Because it takes time for tech / companies to catchup.
The small Acro Lunchbox and poor battery life started the craze, but it had its issues.
Holosun, for all its being Chineseium, has been far more responsive that Trijicon.
Steiner is still on the market.
And lets be honest, open emitters are fine - yes they have detractors but I have yet to see where someone died because <GASP> they had an OPEN EMITTER! OMG, I have to CLEAN it sometimes. Geez, what a drag....
Yes, I hate dust / lint getting in the RMR / 507s, but it's far from the end of the world for 99.5% of people and situations.
It was a vickers class fall of 2019.
It rained a few times and I remember having to cup my hand over the RMR to keep rain out.
Water still got in and it was a matter of picking the brightest dot or dropping my eyes down to the BUIS.
It's always been in the back of my mind, him taunting us RMR users for not having an enclosed emitters.
It was a vickers class fall of 2019.
It rained a few times and I remember having to cup my hand over the RMR to keep rain out.
Water still got in and it was a matter of picking the brightest dot or dropping my eyes down to the BUIS.
It's always been in the back of my mind, him taunting us RMR users for not having an enclosed emitters.
If you’re a concealed carrier with a normal aversion to getting pissed on, then that’s a training scar.
If you’re a concealed carrier with a normal aversion to getting pissed on, then that’s a training scar.
It's a point worth considering. Concealed or not, murphy happens. I know that's a rabbit hole.
It stands that enclosed emitter is superior. Otherwise rifle dots would be open emitter.
It's a point worth considering. Concealed or not, murphy happens. I know that's a rabbit hole.
It stands that enclosed emitter is superior. Otherwise rifle dots would be open emitter.
You’re not wrong, but that was essentially a contrived scenario for most people. Certainly a real problem for many others. But either way “open emitter = failure” is now burned into your brain, hence the training scar comment.
I’m not saying we should go out and buy open emitter optics today, just that they don’t automatically lead to being killed. Going forward, sure, I see the value in enclosed emitters. I believe they are the future for me and my kind. And I think open emitters will continue to be a thing, as well, because pistol optics aren’t always being used in comparable ways to rifle optics.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
02-21-22, 17:13
I ran our in-house firearms academy this year in January. 6 days outdoors in Colorado snow, awful. My RMR was damn near unusable, as were our new recruit's Romeos. I broke out my 509 and Steiner MPS and was reminded why closed emitters make all the sense in the world for a duty gun. I have no problem carrying and trusting my 507K on my carry gun, it very rarely sees the elements.
Anyways, I wouldnt spend 508 money when I could get a 509, and right now I'd buy either a 509 or MPS over any other optic.
Primary Arms has the 509T Red ACSS Vulcan reticle available on pre-order, delivery late Feb…. ;)
Shipped, delivering this week.
Buck Holly from C&H did an Instagram live today and mentioned the PA 509. He said it's a full .050" longer than a 509T and does not fit the standard plates. Insanity.
Buck Holly from C&H did an Instagram live today and mentioned the PA 509. He said it's a full .050" longer than a 509T and does not fit the standard plates. Insanity.
I wonder why it’s longer ?
I wonder why it’s longer ?
Same. Assuming it's true, it defies reason. If they couldn't make the electronics fit, they should have walked. This will cause all sorts of problems for slide millers and plate manufacturers, and by extension, owners.
Buck Holly from C&H did an Instagram live today and mentioned the PA 509. He said it's a full .050" longer than a 509T and does not fit the standard plates. Insanity.
They mention that in the product description. It comes with a RMR or Glock MOS plate to install.
Now if your slide is milled for a previous 509, well...
Note: The 509 ACSS model does not share the same footprint as the 509T (non-ACSS models) and therefore is incompatible with aftermarket mounting solutions and custom cut slides for the 509T (non-ACSS models).
https://www.primaryarms.com/holosun-he509-rd-enclosed-solar-powered-red-dot-sight-w-mos-mounting-plate-acss-vulcan-reticle
Same. Assuming it's true, it defies reason. If they couldn't make the electronics fit, they should have walked. This will cause all sorts of problems for slide millers and plate manufacturers, and by extension, owners.
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia1.tenor.com%2Fimages%2F0e13f768e3bdb301df6964e1eecdf97c%2Ftenor.gif%3Fitemid%3D5300649&f=1&nofb=1
Nah. I'm fine with it, it's going on an RMR slide.
Easy peasy.
From PA on another site, explaining the difference - "The 509 ACSS is slightly longer than the 509T. The emitter is larger for the ACSS Vulcan so we had to make the housing larger to accommodate."
Sample size of 1 509-ACSS and 2 different Glock slides (1 Brownells Gen 4 RMR G19, 1 Glock Gen 5 G19 w/Jagerworks RMR-507 cut).
Optic arrived today; apparently some people are having fit / mounting issues and it could be the steel mounting plate - time will tell.
Mine seems nice, well made for slave Chinese labor, and powered up / does everything it's supposed to do. I tried mounting it to the Brownells slide, but their RMR cut is odd - no front RMR lugs and the screw holes are elevated where they fit inside the RMR / 507. The plate fit fine, but the elevated screw holes don't allow a screw to tension the plate to the frame, as they sit too hight.
On the Gen5 w/ Jagerworks cut, the plate wouldn't full fit, as either the plate's 'holes' for the front lugs are too far apart or the Jagerworks cut lugs are too close to work. However, 10 minutes with some small files, alternating on either side of the adaptor plate got them to work well together and it mounted up nice and tight. Unfortunately Jagerworks optic cuts aren't super deep, so the GL-511 suppressor sights don't clear the optic deck - they sit just about flush with the bottom. Going to try some 2XL black sights, which should work to clear the bottom of the 509-ACSS.
Overall I love the ACSS Vulcan reticle; sure in a perfect world your presentation should be spot on and the dot instantly visible - but life isn't a square range and the large circle ensures you don't have to do the 'wobble' trying to find the dot. I like it even more if it was in an enclosed Trijicon RMR made in the USA, but that doesn't exist and would likely cost $900 if it ever came to fruition.
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