View Full Version : AR500 Steel Targets with 5.56
Hi,
Ammo shortage and travel made shooting a rarer occurrence this past year. I plan to remedy that this week end and have a couple AR500 steel targets I want to plink with my AR15 carbine.
I have a dozen magazines I loaded a few months back with a variety of ammo. Plain old Winchester, some green tips...nothing exotic. Mostly target rounds but I was buying all I found last year and lots of 10 round packs...Each mag has only one type loaded in.
So is there any concern with any of this ammo on A500 steel? Should I just use classic FMJ? What would be minimum distance. I have an entire desert backdrop so can safely shoot out as far as I want. Hence the steel so I get some feedback if I want to try some 200+ yard shots.
Thanks!
Defaultmp3
02-10-22, 18:46
Typically 100 yards is the distance used as a default safe distance to shoot steel targets with centerfired rifle using non-frangible ammo. Note that this is specifically for safety, not for preserving your targets, and I've seen plenty of folks shoot at much closer distances and just live with the frag (best be wearing your eye pro). The distance at which you won't damage your targets will depend heavily on many factors, such as how they are set up (tilted, free hanging, etc.), the construction of the bullet, and the speed of the bullet. M193 may be FMJ, but it'll damage steel plates because of its sheer speed (hence the memes about M16s with M193s smoking AR500 plates); I'm not sure at what velocity M193 becomes slow enough to not damage a steel target (remember, pock marks will only create more pock marks, along with more frag). 200 yards seem to be the number most folks throw out for shooting with 55 gr rounds with acceptable damage mitigation (though obviously, barrel length will play a role in this).
m1a_scoutguy
02-10-22, 20:02
Typically 100 yards is the distance used as a default safe distance to shoot steel targets with centerfire rifle using non-frangible ammo. Note that this is specifically for safety, not for preserving your targets, and I've seen plenty of folks shoot at much closer distances and just live with the frag (best be wearing your eye pro). The distance at which you won't damage your targets will depend heavily on many factors, such as how they are set up (tilted, free-hanging, etc.), the construction of the bullet, and the speed of the bullet. M193 may be FMJ, but it'll damage steel plates because of its sheer speed (hence the memes about M16s with M193s smoking AR500 plates); I'm not sure at what velocity M193 becomes slow enough to not damage a steel target (remember, pockmarks will only create more pockmarks, along with more frag). 200 yards seem to be the number most folks throw out for shooting with 55 gr rounds with acceptable damage mitigation (though obviously, barrel length will play a role in this).
Good info! Velocity is what kills steel targets and the 556 has it. I have shot AR500 with FMJ 308 & 30/06 @ 100yrds and it barely leaves a mark,,556 on the other hand may or may not leave a mark, dig in or crater, etc! Distance is the key. I would remove all the Green tips for sure @ any distance unless you just aren't concerned with the longevity of your steel.
turnburglar
02-10-22, 20:18
DO NOT USE M855 (GREEN TIPS)
100 yards is good. I use 50 as a bare minimum. My steel looks like the surface of the moon after a couples years of ownership.
I have 1/2" plates that were dented bad at 50yds with a 5.56, 16" barrel AR. The same caliber 10.5" SBR didn't hurt them at tgT distance.
I have a family member that has 3/8" plates and shoots them at 50yds all the time with a 16" barrel AR and the plates are fine.
Must be the thicker plates get damaged easier because the same gun ruined two 1/2" plates in one day and the 3/8" plates have several thousand rounds on them over a few years.
I have 1/2" plates that were dented bad at 50yds with a 5.56, 16" barrel AR. The same caliber 10.5" SBR didn't hurt them at tgT distance.
I have a family member that has 3/8" plates and shoots them at 50yds all the time with a 16" barrel AR and the plates are fine.
Must be the thicker plates get damaged easier because the same gun ruined two 1/2" plates in one day and the 3/8" plates have several thousand rounds on them over a few years.
Not the same grade steel on both.
Not the same grade steel on both.
Both were sold as AR500 steel.
What questions should we be asking to get the harder product.
His and my plated did come from separate sellers.
So is there any concern with any of this ammo on A500 steel?
How thick is the target steel? 1/4" would be 100 yards at the closest. 3/8" is fine at 50.
You can get closer if you slant the angle of the targets because it effectively increases the thickness of the armor. (a straight line thru the plate is longer if the plate is angled)
Plus you can deflect the spawl into a safe direction.
DO NOT USE M855 (GREEN TIPS)
M855 is fine on AR500. This myth will never die.
Inside of 100 M193 is the most abusive on steel armor (as mentioned, due to velocity)
Defaultmp3
02-10-22, 21:48
M855 is fine on AR500. This myth will never die.Define fine. It's far less likely to penetrate, because of the steel penetrator, but it's also much more likely to dimple the steel due to the same steel penetrator. If you don't care about dimpling the target, then sure. But some folks would, given the increase frag that the dimples would generate.
Depending on where the target is set up, steel on steel can also cause sparks that could start a fire.
DO NOT USE M855 (GREEN TIPS)
100 yards is good. I use 50 as a bare minimum. My steel looks like the surface of the moon after a couples years of ownership.
(X)M193 Dimples steel more than m855 in my experience. Velocity kills steel.
(X)M193 Dimples steel more than m855 in my experience. Velocity kills steel.
Absolutely. Shoot XM193 enough at 50 or closer, and you'll perforate a 3/8" plate.
DO NOT USE M855 (GREEN TIPS)
100 yards is good. I use 50 as a bare minimum. My steel looks like the surface of the moon after a couples years of ownership.
Thanks!
I was wondering about the green tips in particular. I'll just reload with 100% known rounds. I'm sure it's mostly WWB and some XM193. I was snagging those 10rnd boxes at Sportsmans Warehouse last year. Musta picked up 100 of them; one at a time! :D
So when cratered you don't want to shoot close range right? With other calibers that would allow closer shots?
I have 1/2" plates I haven't shot at yet. Taylor Targets.
I'm camped out (RV'ing) near BM Goldwater Range; El Camino del Diablo. LOVE the wide open spaces and endless back drops!
I was wondering about the green tips in particular.
Green tips are fine on AR500. Ideally a 100 yards or more.
So when cratered you don't want to shoot close range right?
Depends on the depth of the pocks. You kind of have to use judgement. You can look closely at a relatively smooth plate, and it will be pocked up all over, but still shallow.
I have 1/2" plates I haven't shot at yet. Taylor Targets.
1/2" is largely overkill in my experience. We've shot 50 cal ball ammo at 1/4" and it will dent it at 1000 yards. The problem with thicker gongs is they don't ring or react. And M193 will still chew up the surface inside of 100.
The other factory is the barrel length of the rifle. The shorter the AR, the closer I'm comfortable shooting steel because of the reduced velocity. We run 30 pieces of steel from 10 yards out to 1300 yards.
Pappabear is a little more aggressive on shooting the plate rack at 20-25 yards with an AR. I don't like beating up the steel so I don't shoot those. It's really a balance of velocity and distance. You can shoot a short AR at slanted 3/8 steel at 25 yards with no problem, but a flat and softer piece might frag you.
out of shorter barrel ARs, sub 16", 3/8s at 50yds will be fine with no pock marks. 20" use the 100yd rule or that has been my experience. Of course I'll hit all the plates with 308/30-06 if in close and then I get moon craters over time.
out of shorter barrel ARs, sub 16", 3/8s at 50yds will be fine with no pock marks. 20" use the 100yd rule or that has been my experience. Of course I'll hit all the plates with 308/30-06 if in close and then I get moon craters over time.
30 cal rounds (below 300 Win Mag) are much easier on the surface of our steel due to the lower velocity. It's just they had more bullet splatter and rock the stands much harder. I don't like hitting steel with 308 inside of 100 due to the increased chance of a bullet fragment coming back at us.
turnburglar
02-11-22, 14:14
M855 is fine on AR500. This myth will never die.
Inside of 100 M193 is the most abusive on steel armor (as mentioned, due to velocity)
I don't disagree that 193 is hard on steel; but I swear my steel never looked so bad until two of my buddies used 855 on it at like 50 yards.
3/8" AR500 branded steel.
What's kinda ironic is that my favorite AR to shoot steel with is my PSA 10.5 shooting wolf Steel cased. The russian ammo is about 100 FPS slower than regular in my experience and the 10.5" barrel robs a lot of velocity so its a very soft gun on the steel even at close range. I like to set up a mix of steel an card board targets. Like 2 card boards at 7 - 15 yards then a steel IPSC at like 40.
Adrenaline_6
02-11-22, 14:26
I think the goal is 2850fps at the target or less. Velocity is the key.
Both were sold as AR500 steel.
What questions should we be asking to get the harder product.
His and my plated did come from separate sellers.
If they were both AR500 the thicker one would be stronger and less prone to damage from bullet strikes than the thinner one.
Steel does not get weaker as the thickness increases.
If they were both AR500 the thicker one would be stronger and less prone to damage from bullet strikes than the thinner one.
Steel does not get weaker as the thickness increases.That's what I thought and why I went with the thicker plates.
So its safe to guess they are selling different steel and just calling it AR500?
I'll buy from another place next time.
Thank you.
30 cal rounds (below 300 Win Mag) are much easier on the surface of our steel due to the lower velocity. It's just they had more bullet splatter and rock the stands much harder. I don't like hitting steel with 308 inside of 100 due to the increased chance of a bullet fragment coming back at us.
yeah that's not true at the 50yds. I can show you moon crater plates if you'd like. My post is correct, shorter barrel at 50yds for 193 or 855 is fine, longer barrel is not. 308 at shorter distance will crater 3/8 ar500.
I gotta wonder if you some you shoot or talk shit. Some of you seem to know everything but nothing at all
of course if you angle your plates appropriately, you reduce the risk of fragments coming back to almost nill, zero, zilch, but of course you must know this.
That's what I thought and why I went with the thicker plates.
So its safe to guess they are selling different steel and just calling it AR500?
I'll buy from another place next time.
Thank you.
he's correct so it's possible. It woudln't be the first time we've caught people doing this.
That's what I thought and why I went with the thicker plates.
So its safe to guess they are selling different steel and just calling it AR500?
I'll buy from another place next time.
Thank you.
Yup.
Your instincts were spot on in this case.
Here is one of the plates.
It's hard to see the dents but they are on both sides (one if the guys turned the plates around when the paint was gone, and I did not see that happen)
If you can zoom in you can see the dents better.
The hole in the 12:00 position is where it attached to the top of a 2x4 that has a cap with a hook on it. They are slightly angled when hanging but as you shoot them the wood bases seem to catch shrapnel so I think they might angle more when the round hits it.
Here is a link to the site showing one of the plates that was damaged. I have 1 round and 1 square 10", then 1 round and 1 square 8". All 4 supposedly 1/2" thick AR-500 steel.
https://makeitringtargets.com/products/ols/products/12-ar-500-10-gong-hanger-steel-shooting-target-nra-action-pistol-plate
Here is a link to the hangers we use on the 4 plates above.
https://makeitringtargets.com/products/ols/products/ar-500-target-hanger-t-post-topper-hook
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220212/fdde74f420fbba757cbf6075cd973916.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220212/d884b6334f18a10fbb0d1048be1cabf9.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220212/62bfe2c0d4c44abff3fd4f99d01d74b5.jpg
This past summer i bought 2 silhouettes, those are 3/8" thick. They haven't had any rifle rounds on them though, so they look like new still after a couple thousand rounds.
When plates are cut with plasma, it weakens the edges.
^ No doubt. The heat generated in Plasma Cutting will remove the temper.
P2Vaircrewman
02-12-22, 08:09
Not the same grade steel on both.
I have a number of steel targets. Some I bought were specifically sold as AR 500 steel at a gun show, some I made from AR 500 bought from a steel vendor. The ones made with the steel bought from the steel vendor have held up much better than the gun show targets.
I have a number of steel targets. Some I bought were specifically sold as AR 500 steel at a gun show, some I made from AR 500 bought from a steel vendor. The ones made with the steel bought from the steel vendor have held up much better than the gun show targets.
Most likely is that the steel vendor sold you real deal AR500 and the gun show guy sold you stuff that was not...
Good reason I don't deal with little guys for stuff that matters. Stick with reputable companies for reputable products and all that...
When plates are cut with plasma, it weakens the edges.
We had some fairly large and intricate templates cut out of 3/8" thick steel for work. Perfectly square edges, perfectly straight lines and round corners exactly as they were specified in the drawings we sent them.
All cut with computer controlled water jets. :)
Good video / channel to see what tools like that can do (and why chinese tools are garbage): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quL14Csmi_Y
A better video showing more detailed info about those types of cutters: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yV-uJHla58
In that last video the guy talks about how some guys will line the bottom of their tanks with AR plate because leaving the jet running in one place for too long WILL cut through the bottom of the tank but... Even still - That AR plate is getting out of the way if the water jet stays there long enough.
When you cut or grind / shape with water the heat is carried away as fast or faster than you can make it.
Would be pissed off if I sent out good quality blades to be worked on and they came back with burn marks.
Water 'may' be a bit slower but precision of those cuts can still be had with no chance of heat buildup dinking with the steel or changing how it is 'supposed' to behave.
https://i.imgur.com/ja07w4y.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/DXM1XBL.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Q28j4FU.jpg
Thanks again to all that replied to my issue. I know now going forward what to look for.
Yes, water jet cut is optimal. I wonder what percentage of targets are cut that way, vs plasma.
Most likely is that the steel vendor sold you real deal AR500 and the gun show guy sold you stuff that was not...
Good reason I don't deal with little guys for stuff that matters. Stick with reputable companies for reputable products and all that...
agree
I agree with others that you are better off to buy from reputable vendors. I got burned paying for AR500 and getting AR400.
There are several factors involved but 50 yards is a good minimum distance, if you’re not shooting green tip. But the bottom line is- Steel targets are a wear item. If you can afford to wear one out, you can afford to buy another.
indianalex01
02-13-22, 10:52
Define fine. It's far less likely to penetrate, because of the steel penetrator, but it's also much more likely to dimple the steel due to the same steel penetrator. If you don't care about dimpling the target, then sure. But some folks would, given the increase frag that the dimples would generate.
Depending on where the target is set up, steel on steel can also cause sparks that could start a fire.
Are you being for real? A bullet hitting steel starting a fire from a spark?
Are you being for real? A bullet hitting steel starting a fire from a spark?
How much time have you spent on Military ranges?
Are you being for real? A bullet hitting steel starting a fire from a spark?
Was at my gun club a number of years ago, shooting with a friend. We were both shooting steel plates at 100 yards and really hammering them. My friend turned to me and I thought he said something to the effect of "Wow, you're on fire". Turns out he said "Wow, you started a fire." The sparks from our hits on steel had managed to ignite some paper targets that were immediately to the left of the steel we were shooting. The entire target and target frame just went up in flames. Plus, it was just starting to get dark, so the whole effect was pretty impressive.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220212/d884b6334f18a10fbb0d1048be1cabf9.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220212/62bfe2c0d4c44abff3fd4f99d01d74b5.jpg
This past summer i bought 2 silhouettes, those are 3/8" thick. They haven't had any rifle rounds on them though, so they look like new still after a couple thousand rounds.
Like the way you did the paint on that target. :)
Like the way you did the paint on that target. :)Thank you.
I bought magnetic stencils in both sizes for under $10 each from Shooting Targets 7.
I just put cardboard on the garage floor, eyeball the blue and red (total of 4 plates) then after that dries, put the stencil on and hit it with white.
I use whatever rattle cans are on sale.
That web site also sells a face stencil that I use on the silhouette target we have.
Are you being for real? A bullet hitting steel starting a fire from a spark?
absolutely can and has happened
yeah that's not true at the 50yds. I can show you moon crater plates if you'd like. My post is correct, shorter barrel at 50yds for 193 or 855 is fine, longer barrel is not. 308 at shorter distance will crater 3/8 ar500.
I gotta wonder if you some you shoot or talk shit. Some of you seem to know everything but nothing at all
of course if you angle your plates appropriately, you reduce the risk of fragments coming back to almost nill, zero, zilch, but of course you must know this.
Your grammar is so awful I can't tell if we're in disagreement of if you're even talking directly to me. Anything I typed is based on a great number of years shooting a great number of guns at a wide variety of distances at a wide variety of plate thickness in a wide variety of hardness ratings.
All I can post is real experience.
Are you being for real? A bullet hitting steel starting a fire from a spark?
I tried shooting m855 into a plate that showered sparks into a dry tinder pile for the specific test to see if I could start a fire. My sample of one yielded nothing. But I suppose it's possible in just the right scenario.
I did tests on steel targets over 20 years ago where I measured distances of an took pics of the impacts at various ranges with M193 vs M855 ammo. (read my sig line)
Not to sound like an old fart, but good grief... I've forgotten more about the practical use of steel targets than most people will ever know.
Steel is cheap. As markm said, slant it down and go to town.
If you have the ability to build a stand and use either chains or preferably rubber straps you will significantly prolong the life of your steal and can shoot closer. The give of the steel when impacted allows the spall to end up even with the bottom of the plate and the swing allows it to absorb more of the shock limiting pitting. If building stands with 2x4s be prepared for the legs of your stand to get beat up very quickly. I have not had issues from about 20yards and back with 556.
Fires are absolutely a real thing. Especially with 7n6 and green tip. When we shoot in the woods we generally have a 5 gal bucket full of water just in case.
When plates are cut with plasma, it weakens the edges.
Sorry bout the necro.
I know this is true. But can anyone tell me how critical it is? I shoot at whatever steel I can find for free (on my own land). Lotta blind flanges from work, equipment teeth, etc.
I have AR-500 laying around. I have a plasma. Never made my own targets before, but contemplating making some donuts.
Obviously, if you are buying you would like water-jet. But I don't own a water jet. But homebrew?
I mean, I have the equipment to through-harden if I wanted to, but yeah... I ain't gonna. Worst case it's still better than what I'm shooting at now right? I mean the flanges get beat up and all but I have never cared. The teeth last forever.
Are you being for real? A bullet hitting steel starting a fire from a spark?How 'bout a million-and-a-half dollar training apparatus burned to the ground because the shooters didn't know they'd started a fire?
How 'bout a million-and-a-half dollar training apparatus burned to the ground because the shooters didn't know they'd started a fire?
We took the belt feds out once. To the range we were told to use. Bunch of crates out in random places. Shot the living hell out of a bunch of electronic targets NIB. OOPS! I heard that was a 7 figure bill.
On the fire aspect. Might be a one in a million thing. But millions of rounds are fired in the desert. Happens a lot around here. Several times a year in my AO. Gotta police the range and be careful.
Sorry bout the necro.
I know this is true. But can anyone tell me how critical it is? I shoot at whatever steel I can find for free (on my own land). Lotta blind flanges from work, equipment teeth, etc.
I have AR-500 laying around. I have a plasma. Never made my own targets before, but contemplating making some donuts.
Obviously, if you are buying you would like water-jet. But I don't own a water jet. But homebrew?
I mean, I have the equipment to through-harden if I wanted to, but yeah... I ain't gonna. Worst case it's still better than what I'm shooting at now right? I mean the flanges get beat up and all but I have never cared. The teeth last forever.
Most of the targetry I use is plasma cut, so with a reasonable distance, I wouldn’t sweat it too hard. My post was in response to the pics of the edge hits that were posted. It may be that the vendor wasn’t necessarily lying about the type of steel he was using so much as he may have a process problem that he’s not even aware of. Thicker/better steel wouldn’t fix that problem.
Disclosure: my best friend owns a steel target company, and the company I sometimes work for may sell steel targets, but I’m not certain of that.
Steel is cheap. As markm said, slant it down and go to town.
If you have the ability to build a stand and use either chains or preferably rubber straps you will significantly prolong the life of your steal and can shoot closer. The give of the steel when impacted allows the spall to end up even with the bottom of the plate and the swing allows it to absorb more of the shock limiting pitting. If building stands with 2x4s be prepared for the legs of your stand to get beat up very quickly. I have not had issues from about 20yards and back with 556.
Fires are absolutely a real thing. Especially with 7n6 and green tip. When we shoot in the woods we generally have a 5 gal bucket full of water just in case.
This^^^. I have several plates hanging on chains that I shoot from 20 yard on out. They get pockmarked but last years. Very affordable, I buy from these guys:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/272760773612?hash=item3f81cf1bec:g:-mEAAOSw0ThZnxYI
Sorry bout the necro.
I know this is true. But can anyone tell me how critical it is? I shoot at whatever steel I can find for free (on my own land). Lotta blind flanges from work, equipment teeth, etc.
I have AR-500 laying around. I have a plasma. Never made my own targets before, but contemplating making some donuts.
Obviously, if you are buying you would like water-jet. But I don't own a water jet. But homebrew?
I mean, I have the equipment to through-harden if I wanted to, but yeah... I ain't gonna. Worst case it's still better than what I'm shooting at now right? I mean the flanges get beat up and all but I have never cared. The teeth last forever.
It’s not super critical. If you have AR-500 and a plasma cutter you’re ahead of most of us. Make some plates and blast away.
For those beaten for coloring outside the lines and worried about plasma cut (so f@#King dumb)....
GET YOU SOME OF THIS!:
https://i.imgur.com/xTo6nOw.jpg
For those beaten for coloring outside the lines and worried about plasma cut (so f@#King dumb)....
GET YOU SOME OF THIS!:
https://i.imgur.com/xTo6nOw.jpg
Yet, I notice in that pic all the penetrations, chips, and many of the deepest craters are on the edges and around the holes. I’m not saying it matters. Just explaining why it happens.
Just explaining why it happens.
I get that, for sure. I've seen it as well. But there's going to be guys who won't get a target that was plasma cut, but if you shoot the edge of a gong, you lose control of the bullet splatter no matter what.
But there's going to be guys who won't get a target that was plasma cut,
Man, that would be too much googling around for me. Do websites even mention their manufacturing process?
titsonritz
03-03-22, 20:26
Are you being for real? A bullet hitting steel starting a fire from a spark?
Real as a forest fire.
https://www.abc4.com/news/bullets-can-cause-wildfires-heres-how-target-shooting-turns-dangerous-in-the-wild/
Man, that would be too much googling around for me. Do websites even mention their manufacturing process?
No idea. I'd never dig that deep.
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