View Full Version : Just a reminder that Palmetto State Armory is not “just as good as”.
Inkslinger
02-28-22, 12:33
So let me preface this with my knowing full well I was purchasing a low quality item. I had a piece of garbage in the form of a Hesse Arms upper that I bought around 1996. The cast aluminum lower proceeded to break in two pieces soon after. I have over the years by learning and researching purchased better high quality rifles/handguns and components. I could never bring myself to throwing the Hesse upper in the trash though. So recently while reorganizing my shooting storage room I looked at the upper and said “I’m going to make you whole”. So what better compliment would there be than mating it with a PSA lower? They were meant to be! So I purchased one of their blemished complete lowers. When I received it I pushed the pins in and it was like two white trash people falling in love. Hit it with some krylon and smiled.
So today I had a chance to go to the range and zero it. I was generally pleased. Grouping was decent. It wasn’t locking back on an empty magazine though, so I decided to pop out the buffer that came with it because I assumed it was a carbine buffer, and replace it with a H buffer that I had in my bag. When I pulled out the buffer and spring, I was greeted with chunks off the tail of the buffer! I couldn’t help but laugh. PSA didn’t let me down! They certainly lived up to their reputation. I put in the new buffer, rang some steel, and came home to let all of you laugh with me.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220228/9ce6774fdc9c2147b37fc818293c7be6.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220228/38d93763c1af25d08c78f70d6ea63a87.jpg
At least the krylon paint job looks decent
Never had that happen to any of the A5's I use in my rifles. That's pretty bad and coudln't be good for the proper operation.
I kind of feel like it was your fault, if you'd only lubed it more that buffer wouldn't have dried out and cracked! :)
Inkslinger
02-28-22, 12:40
Never had that happen to any of the A5's I use in my rifles. That's pretty bad and coudln't be good for the proper operation.
I kind of feel like it was your fault, if you'd only lubed it more that buffer wouldn't have dried out and cracked! :)
Lol! The upper was from’96. The buffer was from about two weeks ago.
Inkslinger
02-28-22, 12:40
At least the krylon paint job looks decent
You can’t polish a turd, but you can roll it in glitter.
NoveskeFan
02-28-22, 12:55
I guess you found the blem...:jester:
American Mediocrity! (I know it's prolly chinese, but some corner cutting American slob had to spec it.)
Inkslinger
02-28-22, 13:30
On the upside, it didn’t cause any malfunctions. :dance3:
titsonritz
02-28-22, 14:06
On the upside, it didn’t cause any malfunctions. :dance3:
And was pretty simple to diagnose.
Someday I’ll have to show you how much filing it took to make my non-blem PSA 9mm lower fit on an upper. And, no, I’m not the guy(s) on TOS that also had that problem.
Test before you file a Form 1.
If it was me, I would strip the guts out of it and save the weights for spares. Then attach a small hook to it and use it as a Christmas tree ornament! :cool:
Inkslinger
02-28-22, 14:59
And was pretty simple to diagnose.
Maybe that’s the genius of PSA. Their shit that breaks is so obvious that any weekend warrior can diagnose it like a boss.
Inkslinger
02-28-22, 15:24
If it was me, I would strip the guts out of it and save the weights for spares. Then attach a small hook to it and use it as a Christmas tree ornament! :cool:
I mean, it ran. Chunks of plastic in the RE didn’t stop it. I only ran 50 rounds through it. I’m definitely going to take it with me to a class this year and see what happens. I can’t abandon it! It’s backup to my backups. Worst case scenario it would be an excellent barter item. The buffer went right into the dumpster at the range.
Not that it matters much, but you know a new tip is under a buck right.
Then you'd have had a buffer to "make whole". See how that works.
Inkslinger
02-28-22, 17:17
Not that it matters much, but you know a new tip is under a buck right.
Then you'd have had a buffer to "make whole". See how that works.
No need to spend any money when you already have spare buffers.
Could that Hesse upper be over-gassed to the point it is body-slamming the buffer into the rear of the tube?
Inkslinger
02-28-22, 17:32
Could that Hesse upper be over-gassed to the point it is body-slamming the buffer into the rear of the tube?
Most definitely. The tail of the buffer should be made of a material to account for that. Not something that crumbles like blue cheese.
To the OP. Thanks for this thread. I think it's important to call out shit venders who sell shit product.
I don't think I've ever ordered (that I can remember) from Palmetto State Armory. I know I will not in the future. They already have had a spotty reputation for handling orders timely.
bamashooter
03-01-22, 07:54
Entertaining when you factor in the probability of their sales volume to the more expensive "Tier 1 / battle tested / endorsed by Walker - Texas Ranger, etc" stuff. I've had 3 complete PSA and a number of their rcvrs and misc parts. Two issues which they quickly remedied. One of those 2 was actually on me but they covered it. Come back to me when you have their total number of sales vs complaints. Probably a tiny percentage. Even less than kids dying from covid. And then you have those who scream of their inferiority who admittedly have never owned one. My kind of tailcoat rider. Hop on the devil's bandwagon.
Inkslinger
03-01-22, 08:26
Entertaining when you factor in the probability of their sales volume to the more expensive "Tier 1 / battle tested / endorsed by Walker - Texas Ranger, etc" stuff. I've had 3 complete PSA and a number of their rcvrs and misc parts. Two issues which they quickly remedied. One of those 2 was actually on me but they covered it. Come back to me when you have their total number of sales vs complaints. Probably a tiny percentage. Even less than kids dying from covid. And then you have those who scream of their inferiority who admittedly have never owned one. My kind of tailcoat rider. Hop on the devil's bandwagon.
Well since you want to do some mathematics with unknown numbers, when you find the answer will you also find out what the firing schedule is for all those who purchased PSA firearms compared to those that purchase higher quality firearms. I’ve heard the low opinion of PSA for a long time and maybe I’m just an anomaly because my first and last purchase of one of their firearms resulted in a relatively simple component completely failing. Don’t be upset with me, just feel happy that your purchases lived up to your standards.
Entertaining when you factor in the probability of their sales volume to the more expensive "Tier 1 / battle tested / endorsed by Walker - Texas Ranger, etc" stuff. I've had 3 complete PSA and a number of their rcvrs and misc parts. Two issues which they quickly remedied. One of those 2 was actually on me but they covered it. Come back to me when you have their total number of sales vs complaints. Probably a tiny percentage. Even less than kids dying from covid. And then you have those who scream of their inferiority who admittedly have never owned one. My kind of tailcoat rider. Hop on the devil's bandwagon.
haha, that's funny considering you can go to arfcom industry page and 7 of the first 10 are issues. Dude, you like their garbage that's awesome but no one, no one is going to suggest they don't have qc issues the likes of which no other company has seen. they are hot garbage, roll the dice kinda company. Hell, they went all in on the AKs and low and behold, nothing but issues. Doesn't matter what they touch, it sucks
Friends don't let friends buy psa
bamashooter
03-02-22, 06:49
Well since you want to do some mathematics with unknown numbers, when you find the answer will you also find out what the firing schedule is for all those who purchased PSA firearms compared to those that purchase higher quality firearms. I’ve heard the low opinion of PSA for a long time and maybe I’m just an anomaly because my first and last purchase of one of their firearms resulted in a relatively simple component completely failing. Don’t be upset with me, just feel happy that your purchases lived up to your standards.
Laughable. Faceless people on the internet in no way can upset me. Fact. My 2 worst purchases have been a Colt 70 series 1911 and LE Trooper 6920. Do I bash them? Nope. Just point out when arguments arise as to qualities that any brand name is susceptible to flaws and shouldn't be characterized as being the norm unless credible evidence is in hand. In th case of PSA, that evidence simply doesn't exist.
bamashooter
03-02-22, 06:54
haha, that's funny considering you can go to arfcom industry page and 7 of the first 10 are issues. Dude, you like their garbage that's awesome but no one, no one is going to suggest they don't have qc issues the likes of which no other company has seen. they are hot garbage, roll the dice kinda company. Hell, they went all in on the AKs and low and behold, nothing but issues. Doesn't matter what they touch, it sucks
Friends don't let friends buy psa
Dude? You're gay; right?
Show me the hard facts and I'll gladly retract. Otherwise, you're viewed as just another factually-inept basement-dweller.
Inkslinger
03-02-22, 07:11
Laughable. Faceless people on the internet in no way can upset me. Fact. My 2 worst purchases have been a Colt 70 series 1911 and LE Trooper 6920. Do I bash them? Nope. Just point out when arguments arise as to qualities that any brand name is susceptible to flaws and shouldn't be characterized as being the norm unless credible evidence is in hand. In th case of PSA, that evidence simply doesn't exist.
You don’t trash Colt, but you defend PSA. Interesting.
the AR-15 Junkie
03-02-22, 09:24
Laughable. Faceless people on the internet in no way can upset me. Fact. My 2 worst purchases have been a Colt 70 series 1911 and LE Trooper 6920. Do I bash them? Nope. Just point out when arguments arise as to qualities that any brand name is susceptible to flaws and shouldn't be characterized as being the norm unless credible evidence is in hand. In th case of PSA, that evidence simply doesn't exist.
What was wrong with the Trooper 6920?
Don’t be upset with me, just feel happy that your purchases lived up to your standards.
Well said. Do we really have to do this every time we bring up PSA?
Well said. Do we really have to do this every time we bring up PSA?
Uhm, I thought it was a rule or sump'n. Lemme check the CC.
PSA is great. They make cheap AR's to their premium line, which are very good rifles; at least the premium 16" upper that I have has been great. They also make very good AK's; at least their AK103's are. They make and put out more AR's than likely any other 3-4 manufacturers in the U.S. put together. They are bound to have a higher rate of part failures in AR's. I have a couple cheapo PSA AR's, the premium upper, a couple complete lowers and a handful of BCG (cheapos to their Toolcraft permiums) and not a single problem with any of it. I do not shoot at the rate of many of you though.
You don’t trash Colt, but you defend PSA. Interesting.
yeah, I chuckled too
haha, that's funny considering you can go to arfcom industry page and 7 of the first 10 are issues.
That particular section is a great place to go to learn about them and the products they let out the door.
Every so often a person with a problem will share pictures and it can be downright entertaining at times seeing some of the garbage that they actually sent out.
I will give them credit for their 'what seems to be' a no hassle policy of them swapping out any problem parts that are brought to their attention there and have even read threads where they promptly swapped out parts the owners of the firearms messed up themselves (no fault in the original parts - but owners doing bubba stuff and messing up the parts they had).
Have seriously seen threads where guys posted up about a particular problem they were having, described how they were trying to modify 'this' or do something to 'that' and things broke / went south and they ended up with a non functional gun (more or less admitting they HAD a working gun but did bubba stuff and broke it) and damned if PSA didn't replace the stuff anyway...
titsonritz
03-03-22, 00:07
That particular section is a great place to go to learn about them and the products they let out the door.
Every so often a person with a problem will share pictures and it can be downright entertaining at times seeing some of the garbage that they actually sent out.
I will give them credit for their 'what seems to be' a no hassle policy of them swapping out any problem parts that are brought to their attention there and have even read threads where they promptly swapped out parts the owners of the firearms messed up themselves (no fault in the original parts - but owners doing bubba stuff and messing up the parts they had).
Have seriously seen threads where guys posted up about a particular problem they were having, described how they were trying to modify 'this' or do something to 'that' and things broke / went south and they ended up with a non functional gun (more or less admitting they HAD a working gun but did bubba stuff and broke it) and damned if PSA didn't replace the stuff anyway...
That doesn't get them any points in my book, I mean hell, SOLGW will take care of you if your dumbass runs over your rifle with a truck.
That particular section is a great place to go to learn about them and the products they let out the door.
Every so often a person with a problem will share pictures and it can be downright entertaining at times seeing some of the garbage that they actually sent out.
I will give them credit for their 'what seems to be' a no hassle policy of them swapping out any problem parts that are brought to their attention there and have even read threads where they promptly swapped out parts the owners of the firearms messed up themselves (no fault in the original parts - but owners doing bubba stuff and messing up the parts they had).
Have seriously seen threads where guys posted up about a particular problem they were having, described how they were trying to modify 'this' or do something to 'that' and things broke / went south and they ended up with a non functional gun (more or less admitting they HAD a working gun but did bubba stuff and broke it) and damned if PSA didn't replace the stuff anyway...
I think it's more than 'every so often' but it is funny to watch.
I'm not sure who is sourcing their lpk but just had a friend, who I told NOT to buy from them, have to file down his takedown pins as they were too large. Not one, but both! lol
Inkslinger
03-03-22, 08:49
That particular section is a great place to go to learn about them and the products they let out the door.
Every so often a person with a problem will share pictures and it can be downright entertaining at times seeing some of the garbage that they actually sent out.
I will give them credit for their 'what seems to be' a no hassle policy of them swapping out any problem parts that are brought to their attention there and have even read threads where they promptly swapped out parts the owners of the firearms messed up themselves (no fault in the original parts - but owners doing bubba stuff and messing up the parts they had).
Have seriously seen threads where guys posted up about a particular problem they were having, described how they were trying to modify 'this' or do something to 'that' and things broke / went south and they ended up with a non functional gun (more or less admitting they HAD a working gun but did bubba stuff and broke it) and damned if PSA didn't replace the stuff anyway...
They’ve clearly chosen a business model of spending as little as possible on components and QC that offsets the replacement costs while still generating profits over sourcing and inspecting components that don’t immediately fail and have no need to be replaced. This can’t be done without some serious corner cutting.
They’ve clearly chosen a business model of spending as little as possible on components and QC that offsets the replacement costs while still generating profits over sourcing and inspecting components that don’t immediately fail and have no need to be replaced. This can’t be done without some serious corner cutting.I think this is exactly right. They would have had to replace (or just not use) the parts anyway. This way they forgo the cost of QC by passing the responsibility onto the customer.
I think it's more than 'every so often' but it is funny to watch.
I'm not sure who is sourcing their lpk but just had a friend, who I told NOT to buy from them, have to file down his takedown pins as they were too large. Not one, but both! lol
My oldest son said something about buying some stuff from them one time...
Told him if he was that stupid that it was thanks to the DNA he got from his mom and NOT me. He reconsidered when I explained it to him like that and made his parts purchase elsewhere.
TacticalSpeed
03-07-22, 20:33
Hardly a reason to peg PSA as low quality.
All mine run fine. Now, FM-Products on the other hand...junk.
Even my BCA uppers are great
titsonritz
03-07-22, 20:48
Hardly a reason to peg PSA as low quality.
All mine run fine. Now, FM-Products on the other hand...junk.
Even my BCA uppers are great
Really?? A key component to the proper function of the rifle crumbles and that's "Hardly a reason to peg PSA as low quality."?
Wow. OK, if you say so.
Hardly a reason to peg PSA as low quality.
All mine run fine. Now, FM-Products on the other hand...junk.
Even my BCA uppers are great
How many failures do bcm, lmt, dd, or sionics see? How many does psa see? Psa sees a huge magnitude more. Yes, they are low quality. When good quality stuff isn’t that much more, why waste money on junk like psa?
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I think it's more than 'every so often' but it is funny to watch.
I'm not sure who is sourcing their lpk but just had a friend, who I told NOT to buy from them, have to file down his takedown pins as they were too large. Not one, but both! lol
You know, not that I'm doubting you, but kind of funny, things PSA always happen to some dudes more often than others. Myself, I wouldn't file down takedown pins, I'd get some from, oh, say KNS. And, if I was running and gunning and building as much as you apparently are, I'd have some extras on hand to loan a brother, rather than hillbilly a part.
I don't doubt that PSA's problems with QC are larger than some companies. You just have to be careful what you get from PSA. I have used some of their lower parts kits, but no longer use them, largely because even a minus FCG LPK has parts I don't need because I put ambi stuff on my rifles and have plenty of spare parts.
brickboy240
03-08-22, 10:14
I just sent back a PSA AR-9 lower that was so far out of spec, I could not push in the rear pin!
Terrible QC....I should have known when I bought it that I had a 50-50 chance of receiving total garbage.
Will never buy PSA junk again....EVER.
I just sent back a PSA AR-9 lower that was so far out of spec, I could not push in the rear pin!
Terrible QC....I should have known when I bought it that I had a 50-50 chance of receiving total garbage.
Will never buy PSA junk again....EVER.
If it was a Colt/Uzi mag lower, its because they botched the pin hole location on the feedramps, then shimmed it up with a L-shaped piece of aluminum to make the out of spec ramp assembly fit, causing the feedramp to contact the bolt when you try to put the upper on.
Outlander Systems
03-09-22, 08:40
PSA is shit, and you can’t change my mind.
Gee Dubs sums up my position and personal experience on Palmetto Trash Armory, pretty succinctly:
https://youtu.be/rQ6N-sb7SVQ
Also PSA = Roll of the dice whether you receive canted sights or not.
ChattanoogaPhil
03-19-22, 09:05
You know, not that I'm doubting you, but kind of funny, things PSA always happen to some dudes more often than others.
Some people are snakebit.
My limited experience with PSA is two complete lowers and one upper. Fit, finish and performance is fine for the intended purpose.
What’s up with their sales? They have things marked as St.Patrick’s Day Sale, but the price is the same as any other day. Are they hoping people new to the site will just assume it’s a sale price?
Five_Point_Five_Six
03-19-22, 10:39
Buying PSA and BCA in 2022 is like going to the grocery store and buying up the almost spoiled meat and bruised fruits and vegetables. Congrats on saving a few bucks I guess.
Never had an issue with PSA and I have bought uppers, lowers, bcg's, etc! I LOVE PSA!!!!!!!Some people say the exact same thing about Botach.
Buying PSA and BCA in 2022 is like going to the grocery store and buying up the almost spoiled meat and bruised fruits and vegetables. Congrats on saving a few bucks I guess.
Stuff (food stuff like you describe) that most guys here would instantly toss in the trash is not always 'trash' to others.
You would be surprised what chickens can safely eat (and then transform into really good eggs). Good luck finding a spoiled / bruised up vegetable that they won't eat! :)
Meats that you would never in a million years even consider giving to your dogs can still be 'used' to grow - maggots.
Maggots that chickens absolutely love (and will turn into really good eggs)...
Outside of one fire control group that double fired, all the PSA products that I have bought have been great. Problem free and reliable. I also give them props for prioritizing sending mag order to Washington state over other states until the new ban is implemented. I will continue to buy products from them as they get more AR's in the hands of citizens than likely the next 4 businesses/manufacturers together.
I will continue to buy products from them as they get more AR's in the hands of citizens than likely the next 4 businesses/manufacturers together.
I am sure I could personally produce MORE volume in my particular line of work if I cut back on my quality standards.
No plans to do so...
Inkslinger
03-19-22, 14:01
I am sure I could personally produce MORE volume in my particular line of work if I cut back on my quality standards.
No plans to do so...
It seems common for the PSA apologists to make statements about their volume compared to others. I have yet to see one post any hard data to support it. Even if they do, like you said, they are clearly producing a subpar product in order to do so.
It seems common for the PSA apologists to make statements about their volume compared to others. I have yet to see one post any hard data to support it. Even if they do, like you said, they are clearly producing a subpar product in order to do so.
No apologist. A realist. You and others can like whatever you wish and dislike whatever you wish. I could care less.
Inkslinger
03-19-22, 15:59
No apologist. A realist. You and others can like whatever you wish and dislike whatever you wish. I could care less.
Ok, then please provide the class with sales data of PSA and the top 4 manufacturers to support your claim. And so you know, it’s “I couldn’t care less”.
It seems common for the PSA apologists to make statements about their volume compared to others. I have yet to see one post any hard data to support it. Even if they do, like you said, they are clearly producing a subpar product in order to do so.
Pretty sure 26Infantry did one time a couple years ago. Or someone in another of threes threads that show up on the regular.
Stuff (food stuff like you describe) that most guys here would instantly toss in the trash is not always 'trash' to others.
You would be surprised what chickens can safely eat (and then transform into really good eggs). Good luck finding a spoiled / bruised up vegetable that they won't eat! :)
Meats that you would never in a million years even consider giving to your dogs can still be 'used' to grow - maggots.
Maggots that chickens absolutely love (and will turn into really good eggs)...
True, but food scrap garbage can be used to 'grow' maggots. Why buy garbage?
bamashooter
03-20-22, 12:43
Ok, then please provide the class with sales data of PSA and the top 4 manufacturers to support your claim. And so you know, it’s “I couldn’t care less”.
Actually, it's either (either pronounced with a long I). Only those with liberal leanings insist on "couldn't"
"Couldn’t care less" and "could care less" are both used to mean someone doesn’t care at all, but English teachers and grammarians will say that only "couldn't care less" is correct, so that is what you should use in formal or academic writing.
Similar to the opinions or purported statements of fact regarding PSA and others production numbers as compared to verifiable faulty products. Impossible for anyone here to obtain.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
03-20-22, 12:49
Stuff (food stuff like you describe) that most guys here would instantly toss in the trash is not always 'trash' to others.
You would be surprised what chickens can safely eat (and then transform into really good eggs). Good luck finding a spoiled / bruised up vegetable that they won't eat! :)
Meats that you would never in a million years even consider giving to your dogs can still be 'used' to grow - maggots.
Maggots that chickens absolutely love (and will turn into really good eggs)...
Ok....
So PSA is the preferred rifle for the human equivalent to chickens and maggots.
Agreed.
Inkslinger
03-20-22, 12:56
Actually, it's either (either pronounced with a long I). Only those with liberal leanings insist on "couldn't"
"Couldn’t care less" and "could care less" are both used to mean someone doesn’t care at all, but English teachers and grammarians will say that only "couldn't care less" is correct, so that is what you should use in formal or academic writing.
Similar to the opinions or purported statements of fact regarding PSA and others production numbers as compared to verifiable faulty products. Impossible for anyone here to obtain.
So you typed all that to say you can’t support your statements with facts. Roger that.
I don't hate PSA. In fact, PSA is my favorite econo brand AR. Are they as good as? No.
A 5.56 AR isn't difficult to get running right and once it's running right, will stay running right. Getting an AR to run right isn't some closely guarded secret available to a small, elite brotherhood. It isn't complicated either. But the information gets derided and lost by all the noise. That's the real reason why a PSA isn't a good choice. That's the real reason why the easy button is "Get a 6920". You don't have to know how to what makes an AR work right to run a Colt. It's the reason why I laugh (off line, of course) every time some crusader tells a newbie "A PSA (or some other "economy" AR) is a good starter AR and you don't have to pay for the pony." A PSA is not the right choice for the AR neophyte.
Nor is PSA isn't "utter garbage". Getting one to run right is a simple matter. IF you know what you're doing. But you can't count on being able to take one out of the box, or snap one together on your kitchen table and expect it to work.
That's what you get when you "pay for the pony" that you don't get with PSA or some other economy brand- peace of mind. With the price of gas and ammo, the savings you get buying the econo brand is lost making trips to the range to test fire the changes you hope fixed the problem. Especially at today's prices.
You can explain this till you're blue in the face and there will always be a squad of Crusaders chanting "Colt Fanboi" while their leader holds up the Holy Internet shouting "Yeah, but this guy's PSA never had a problem..."
Ok....
So PSA is the preferred rifle for the human equivalent to chickens and maggots.
Agreed.
More along the lines of - After all the broken / defective stuff is replaced / refurbished / recycled THEN a guy might have something that is not a turd.
:)
the AR-15 Junkie
03-21-22, 06:48
A 5.56 AR isn't difficult to get running right and once it's running right, will stay running right. Getting an AR to run right isn't some closely guarded secret available to a small, elite brotherhood. It isn't complicated either. ..."
According to the SOTAR Snobs it is.
According to the SOTAR Snobs it is.
I thought the purpose of that channel was to get that information out there, for free?
the AR-15 Junkie
03-21-22, 12:11
I thought the purpose of that channel was to get that information out there, for free?
Students have to sign Non Disclosure agreements.
What seems to be the most common failure with their uppers...I have 14.5" I've been trying to break with the M16. Not shooting as much due to the cringe of thinking of replacing rounds at twice the cost, but it's hung in so far.
I thought the purpose of that channel was to get that information out there, for free?
That channel is about selling you stuff.
Not teaching you how to actually fix / repair or otherwise make what you have serviceable...
Meh, I’ve never signed a NDA to watch a youtube video, nor have I bought anything from SOTAR, but I did learn a bit about why certain dimensions are important.
Anyway, I don’t see where “SOTAR Snobs” claim that getting a rifle to run right is a closely guarded secret of the elites, as The_AR15_Junkie claimed above. Is that a thing on some other site? It seemed like a unsolicited off-topic jab at someone that’s not around to defend himself. Well, he was around here before he was run off.
It seems common for the PSA apologists to make statements about their volume compared to others. I have yet to see one post any hard data to support it. Even if they do, like you said, they are clearly producing a subpar product in order to do so.
That information is simply not available to post. You can go here and see how many firearms were manufactured by a company: https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/2020-annual-firearms-manufacturers-and-export-report-afmer
That is the most available source of information but is not specific enough to provide more than a hint.
Price is what sells PSA ARs. Not everyone wants or needs to pay more than $700 for a basic AR and not everyone wants or needs to pay less than $700 for an AR.
PSA customers accept a higher risk in exchange for a lower purchase price, whether they know it or not.
Andy
ChattanoogaPhil
03-23-22, 15:59
Have some extra time this afternoon to run my mouth with absolutely nothing of importance... so...
Other than an illusion of a Geko45 mall ninja wannabe, is there anyone on M4C who actually thinks PSA is "just as good" as any so-called Tier 1 rifle? Seems like the phrase is used a lot on M4C for purposes of mocking. Who?
I suppose if the criteria was buyer satisfaction then PSA could be "just as good" as any rifle. I've seen countless gripes from BCM owners dissatisfied with accuracy, won't accept PMAGs, dissatisfied with how the rifle is gassed, and recently a BCM owner was suffering a "QC" meltdown on M4C over the gas block interfering with an M-LOK attachment point for a finger stop. Hell, I've even seen a new KAC owner on M4C so distraught over upper/receiver slop and what he perceived to be misleading claims regarding gas system/soft shooting that he decided to get rid of it. But... I don't recall seeing many folks saying PSA is "just as good" as any top tier rifle. Did I miss the fun?
That my wife is a satisfied PSA owner and suffers none of the aforementioned gripes, including as tight of receiver fit as any rifle without struggling with pins, is a far cry from "just as good".
I've run out of breath... carry on.
Well I purchased a daily deal 16” middy PSA upper a while back, slapped it on an Aero lower and use it for blasting cheap steel at the range. Does the trick and has never had a hiccup (yet).
Sometimes one just wants to spend the afternoon shooting cheap(ish) steel. I won’t run that crap through my BCM’s but have no issues using the PSA to fill that role.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
titsonritz
03-23-22, 23:32
Students have to sign Non Disclosure agreements.
Seriously? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!!! Does he make you sign one at sign up time or does he sneak it in at the beginning of the class? One of my instructors was talking about having him out to put on a class, I was thinking of signing up if he did, but I've taken a few armorers classes, I've never had to sign an NDA and I won't be signing one for his ass either.
the AR-15 Junkie
03-24-22, 08:43
Seriously? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!!! Does he make you sign one at sign up time or does he sneak it in at the beginning of the class? One of my instructors was talking about having him out to put on a class, I was thinking of signing up if he did, but I've taken a few armorers classes, I've never had to sign an NDA and I won't be signing one for his ass either.
At beginning of class.
It seems common for the PSA apologists to make statements about their volume compared to others. I have yet to see one post any hard data to support it. Even if they do, like you said, they are clearly producing a subpar product in order to do so.
Look at the BATFE manufacturers reports. You'll have to scroll down and look at the data like I have, not going to do it for you: https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/data-statistics
2020 is still posted as an Excel file and I like it better because the info is all on one line, in the final reports you have to scroll to rifles, and then to misc firearms to get the data on receivers.
I'm not a PSA apologist per se, I just hate it when folks put out unsubstantiated 'facts' like PSA buys reject parts. When I ask for proof I never get hard data it's just 'industry insiders have told me.'
Or, you could do like I did before I started buying non-PSA logo'ed ToolCraft BCG's from PSA - I called ToolCraft. Based on their answer, I decided that a C-158 bolt, MPI'ed without a proof load was GTG for my uses.
Do I doubt that BCM's (as an example) QC is better than PSA's? Not a bit. Taken in perspective, though, BCM's (again, as an example) QC is probably also better than Colt's or FN's on the USGI assembly line.
Personally, I've never bought a complete AR, the closest I've come is a complete Colt lower and a complete Colt CCU upper, bought separately on sale, and a LaRue Ulimate Upper (unassembled) and a LaRue lower, which gave me all LaRue parts. Maybe that's why I'm not so bent on brand loyalty.
Look at the BATFE manufacturers reports. You'll have to scroll down and look at the data like I have, not going to do it for you: https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/data-statistics
Thanks for this, very interesting.
titsonritz
03-24-22, 13:19
At beginning of class.
Personally, I'd be pissed off, I'd challenge the charge on my card right in front of him then leave.
Inkslinger
03-24-22, 13:48
Look at the BATFE manufacturers reports. You'll have to scroll down and look at the data like I have, not going to do it for you: https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/data-statistics
2020 is still posted as an Excel file and I like it better because the info is all on one line, in the final reports you have to scroll to rifles, and then to misc firearms to get the data on receivers.
I'm not a PSA apologist per se, I just hate it when folks put out unsubstantiated 'facts' like PSA buys reject parts. When I ask for proof I never get hard data it's just 'industry insiders have told me.'
Or, you could do like I did before I started buying non-PSA logo'ed ToolCraft BCG's from PSA - I called ToolCraft. Based on their answer, I decided that a C-158 bolt, MPI'ed without a proof load was GTG for my uses.
Do I doubt that BCM's (as an example) QC is better than PSA's? Not a bit. Taken in perspective, though, BCM's (again, as an example) QC is probably also better than Colt's or FN's on the USGI assembly line.
Personally, I've never bought a complete AR, the closest I've come is a complete Colt lower and a complete Colt CCU upper, bought separately on sale, and a LaRue Ulimate Upper (unassembled) and a LaRue lower, which gave me all LaRue parts. Maybe that's why I'm not so bent on brand loyalty.
Okay, so they make substantial more than BCM for example. I stand by my statement that they are only able to do this by producing a poor quality item. We will never have any data on a ratio of warranty work or failing components between the two manufacturers. With what seems to get posted on this forum alone, I think my assumptions would be correct. I’m not knocking anyone for what they purchase, and there are clearly problem free rifles from PSA. I just thought it was interesting that after hearing of their poor reputation, my one and only purchase from them lived up to that reputation immediately.
PSA makes some crap and some of their top tier guns are ok and will run. I have never heard anyone from PSA saying their rifles are just as good. You hear it from people that buy their stuff that dont know what they are talking about. If you purchased a PSA and it runs and your happy, rock on. That's all that matters.
But I would encourage all the haters to remember that they are doing more to make AR and AK pattern rifles in “common use” than anyone else and they have stated as much. For that they should be commended by all of us!
Personally, I'd be pissed off, I'd challenge the charge on my card right in front of him then leave.
It's actually a smart business move. Why educate a crowd of people, some of which may then take what you taught them and go set up their own school to compete with you? Or go make YouTube videos sharing what they learned? He's protecting his brand and his livelihood. I am surprised more instructors don't do it.
Personally, I'd be pissed off, I'd challenge the charge on my card right in front of him then leave.
You don't even know what the NDA covers
titsonritz
03-25-22, 13:58
It's actually a smart business move. Why educate a crowd of people, some of which may then take what you taught them and go set up their own school to compete with you? Or go make YouTube videos sharing what they learned? He's protecting his brand and his livelihood. I am surprised more instructors don't do it.
Then state that up front at sign up time, don't spring it on people at the beginning of the class. That is bullshit.
I remember emailing, texting or calling Iraqgunz and him being completely generous with his time and knowledge and that was before I took classes from him.
You don't even know what the NDA covers
Nor do I care, I don't sign them across the board for anything.
CatBacker88
03-26-22, 08:37
Nor do I care, I don't sign them across the board for anything.
Don't want further hijack this thread, but I'd sure like to see what's on SOTAR's NDA before I put down any money or commit any time too. Seems odd someone would create a "School" and then think it ethical to forbid students from using knowledge or skills obtained from attending the school and then restricting what the student can do with the knowledge. Surely his NDA is about using materials like handouts or media he personally created under copyright. Anyone know for sure?
One More Time
03-26-22, 09:31
High production is awesome.
High production with no QC is not so great.
Slapping something together from them will probably work okay and send bullets down range and put a smile on someones face if you spend the time to do the QC for them.
Watch enough SOTAR vids and you'll see what to look for when you open the box and know you may be making a trip to the Post Office.
But you did save a couple bucks so there is that.
CatBacker88
03-26-22, 09:44
Have some extra time this afternoon to run my mouth with absolutely nothing of importance... so...
Other than an illusion of a Geko45 mall ninja wannabe, is there anyone on M4C who actually thinks PSA is "just as good" as any so-called Tier 1 rifle? Seems like the phrase is used a lot on M4C for purposes of mocking. Who?
I suppose if the criteria was buyer satisfaction then PSA could be "just as good" as any rifle. I've seen countless gripes from BCM owners dissatisfied with accuracy, won't accept PMAGs, dissatisfied with how the rifle is gassed, and recently a BCM owner was suffering a "QC" meltdown on M4C over the gas block interfering with an M-LOK attachment point for a finger stop. Hell, I've even seen a new KAC owner on M4C so distraught over upper/receiver slop and what he perceived to be misleading claims regarding gas system/soft shooting that he decided to get rid of it. But... I don't recall seeing many folks saying PSA is "just as good" as any top tier rifle. Did I miss the fun?
That my wife is a satisfied PSA owner and suffers none of the aforementioned gripes, including as tight of receiver fit as any rifle without struggling with pins, is a far cry from "just as good".
I've run out of breath... carry on.
Well stated! I've been a pretty avid M16 / AR15 fan for let's just say an awfully long time, and I've got to say I don't recall the "just as good as" mantra ever coming out of Palmetto State Armory's official mouth, and really not all that many of their customers in the online forums. The most common comments are those following negative posts and they come from folks who own PSA guns they are quite pleased with. Everyone wants to interpret the meaning(s) of the limited amount of information about production numbers, specifications, reliability, price tags and credibility of a given source of fact or opinion in these debates in their own way. I will say (FWIW) the four PSA carbines I've put together long ago and used for the past 10 years or seem just fine to me. All are what PSA labeled "Premium" models at the time of purchase, so none of their lower end "PTAC" or "Freedom" or whatever, so I suppose that matters. I honestly don't think of them being "just as good as" my one LE6920 or my two BCM carbines but, to be honest, there's no discernible difference in accuracy or function. No doubt they would all likely have to be ran a good deal harder than they have been to see the thoroughbreds emerge, but all of them have been given a fair chance to fail and none have.
Don't want further hijack this thread, but I'd sure like to see what's on SOTAR's NDA before I put down any money or commit any time too. Seems odd someone would create a "School" and then think it ethical to forbid students from using knowledge or skills obtained from attending the school and then restricting what the student can do with the knowledge. Surely his NDA is about using materials like handouts or media he personally created under copyright. Anyone know for sure?
Concur.
I’d also like to know if he’s ever followed through on legal action for anyone giving up his “secrets”. Or if that is just marketing hype for classes so people think they are getting something special.
Inkslinger
03-26-22, 10:30
Maybe he does the NDA’s because he trashes hack companies and he doesn’t want someone from one of those companies undercover in his class recording him for a slander or libel suit.
NoveskeFan
03-26-22, 10:49
Maybe he does the NDA’s because he trashes hack companies and he doesn’t want someone from one of those companies undercover in his class recording him for a slander or libel suit.
He's said in the past that he won't recommend any brand regardless of it's reputation. My understanding is that he believes in gauging everything and using what passes. I thought I read somewhere (maybe their Facebook group) that the NDA was more about some of the gauges he uses and methods he uses to check things.
Maybe he does the NDA’s because he trashes hack companies and he doesn’t want someone from one of those companies undercover in his class recording him for a slander or libel suit.
Or because he doesn't want everyone else to go out making videos or telling people about what he worked hard to put into presentation.
PSA AR-15 pistol, AR-9 Pistol, both work fine for me. I don't shoot them a lot, but they work when I use them.
Straight Shooter
03-26-22, 23:01
Odd this thread popped back up today- I had a range trip today for the first time in a while...too long.
Ive aquired some new gear that badly needed vetting. One was a Magpul D60 drum mag, amongst other things.
Used my beater PSA that Im in under $400 on once again. Went well over its 2000th round today...still 100% reliable with a slew of different mags, now including the D60, accurate as hell and just really enjoyable to shoot. This is a sample of ONE..mine. As Ive posted before, I bought this to see if "PSA is junk" or not.
So far..NOT.
titsonritz
03-27-22, 00:31
Odd this thread popped back up today- I had a range trip today for the first time in a while...too long.
Ive aquired some new gear that badly needed vetting. One was a Magpul D60 drum mag, amongst other things.
Used my beater PSA that Im in under $400 on once again. Went well over its 2000th round today...still 100% reliable with a slew of different mags, now including the D60, accurate as hell and just really enjoyable to shoot. This is a sample of ONE..mine. As Ive posted before, I bought this to see if "PSA is junk" or not.
So far..NOT.
This is what I'm curious about...
How long have you had that PSA and how long did it take to reach that 2000th round mark? I ask because I've taken my primary training AR (dirty to begin with) though back to back classes and have gone though 2000 rounds in four days. No cleaning it, no babying it, just a squirt of lube at lunch time. Do you think your PSA could do that? Honest question.
Second, do you have any other ARs that you have compared to your PSA side by side? I ask because I too have bought one to see if "PSA is junk" or not, as a secondary reason, the primary was to do a cut away. While it has been reliable for the 700 rounds I've put though it, it is most definitely is a piece of shit in comparison to my other guns.
IMO, the fact that these lower tier weapons function as well as some (or even most) do is a testament to the soundness of the design, not the monkeys cobbling together guns with inferior parts.
Straight Shooter
03-27-22, 08:03
Whoa now- I dont take offense to your question...but realize Im NOT a"PSA is a good as" defender, just reporting on THIS rifle.
Now, to your questions.
The most Ive ran it at one time is i burned through several hundred rounds about as fast as I could, got that rifle rifle as hot as any Ive ever fired..including military service.
Its gone about 600-700 rounds at a time without cleaning. I honestly do not know what it would do with 2000 in a four day stretch. Its got a Nib ToolCraft bcg in it, a nice EPT trigger, and Ive replaced some springs.
Yes, I own others..a LMT I bought while Bush was still President thats got untold amounts throught it and is utterly, completely reliable. Ive got an Aero Precision custom build with Criterion barrel and other goodies, and Ive owned a couple others, plus many many other semi's throughout over 50 years of shooting.
Again..Im under $400 on the thing..I bought it a few years back in what I call the TRUMP LULL..when guns/ammo & gear was dirt cheap for a good while.
NO- it is nowhere near Colt/LMT quality...but for what I bought it for...does it need to be? No.
I 100% AGREE with your statement about the design being sound over the inferior parts/assembly...truest words ever spoken.
This is just a range/backup rifle should my others go down, and I would not feel worried AT THIS POINT if I had to use it in a SD situation. My HD shotty recently went down on me, and my LMT could go too, nice to have a reliable backup. After cleaning it last night, I looked at everything real good...everything is still ok thus far.
So, my thoughts are- for a serious SD/HD/SHTF rifle..of course buy a known quality rifle. Bu for a range toy to abuse, experiment & to keep the round count down on your primary rifle...a cheap rifle that works is ok by me. Thanks for your questions!
At beginning of class.
That's not cool.
titsonritz
03-27-22, 14:09
Thanks for your questions!
Thanks for your response.
Disregard, should have read thread through to the end.
Andy
Or because he doesn't want everyone else to go out making videos or telling people about what he worked hard to put into presentation.
Yeah my point also. I find it odd people are so wadded up over this. IP is a real thing.
Or because he doesn't want everyone else to go out making videos or telling people about what he worked hard to put into presentation.
Yes. He's protecting his IP.
This is what I'm curious about...
How long have you had that PSA and how long did it take to reach that 2000th round mark? I ask because I've taken my primary training AR (dirty to begin with) though back to back classes and have gone though 2000 rounds in four days. No cleaning it, no babying it, just a squirt of lube at lunch time. Do you think your PSA could do that? Honest question.
Second, do you have any other ARs that you have compared to your PSA side by side? I ask because I too have bought one to see if "PSA is junk" or not, as a secondary reason, the primary was to do a cut away. While it has been reliable for the 700 rounds I've put though it, it is most definitely is a piece of shit in comparison to my other guns.
IMO, the fact that these lower tier weapons function as well as some (or even most) do is a testament to the soundness of the design, not the monkeys cobbling together guns with inferior parts.
My first AR carbine was a PSA 16" middy and I ran a lot of ammo through it. I'd buy a thousand rounds at a time and shoot at least half of it in a single day. At first, I'd get the occasional bolt over base and empty case stuck in the action. A the time, I followed online suggestions and had the ramps polished and tried an adjustable gas block because "It's over gassed" and "Out-running the magazine". Each time the problem would go away for awhile, but then it'd return- and got worse.
Finally, I realized it was none of those things. It wasn't until I replaced the extractor spring with a Colt extractor spring that my problems went away. Over gassing and under buffering no longer caused malfunctions, just harsher recoil. Once I got good springs in my PSA, it's run without malfunctions. I've run it next to a Colt 6920 that I swapped in a pinned 14.5 SOCOM barrel onto. It kept up with the Colt, but the timing of the PSA felt just a little bit off in comparison. I've since traded the PSA so a new shooter could get some trigger time on an AR before joining the Marines when they graduated high school.
On other gun forums, there is still a cadre of folks who think buying a Colt is simply "paying for the pony" and you can get just as good as for less.
Yes. He's protecting his IP.
My first AR carbine was a PSA 16" middy and I ran a lot of ammo through it. I'd buy a thousand rounds at a time and shoot at least half of it in a single day. At first, I'd get the occasional bolt over base and empty case stuck in the action. A the time, I followed online suggestions and had the ramps polished and tried an adjustable gas block because "It's over gassed" and "Out-running the magazine". Each time the problem would go away for awhile, but then it'd return- and got worse.
Finally, I realized it was none of those things. It wasn't until I replaced the extractor spring with a Colt extractor spring that my problems went away. Over gassing and under buffering no longer caused malfunctions, just harsher recoil. Once I got good springs in my PSA, it's run without malfunctions. I've run it next to a Colt 6920 that I swapped in a pinned 14.5 SOCOM barrel onto. It kept up with the Colt, but the timing of the PSA felt just a little bit off in comparison. I've since traded the PSA so a new shooter could get some trigger time on an AR before joining the Marines when they graduated high school.
On other gun forums, there is still a cadre of folks who think buying a Colt is simply "paying for the pony" and you can get just as good as for less.
Hi @MistWolf I was wondering if you just replaced the extractor spring? Not the o-ring or the extractor insert?
Did you see anything wrong with the spring you took out? Weak? Smashed?
Sorry for the Newbie question.
titsonritz
03-30-22, 01:47
Hi @MistWolf I was wondering if you just replaced the extractor spring? Not the o-ring or the extractor insert?
Did you see anything wrong with the spring you took out? Weak? Smashed?
Sorry for the Newbie question.
I'd be blown away if didn't replace the insert with a standard Colt BLACK extractor spring insert, no donut.
Hi @MistWolf I was wondering if you just replaced the extractor spring? Not the o-ring or the extractor insert?
Did you see anything wrong with the spring you took out? Weak? Smashed?
Sorry for the Newbie question.
Always replace the insert when replacing the spring. Never use an O ring. Only use a Colt or Sprinco spring. Accept no substitutes
Anybody wanting to dip their toe into the PSA waters - PSA has a mid-length stainless 16" builder kit on sale now for $349.00. It contains everything you need except a receiver, rear sight and magazines.
I have this same upper. I don't remember if I bought it with BCG, or without, doesn't really matter because I would have put a ToolCraft C-158 in it anyways. It is a damned good shooting rifle, way better than I can shoot with a dot at 200 and 300, around 1.5 with random ammo at 100. Of the three rifles I use most often, this is probably a close second, I just enjoy it. I generally don't do more than 100 a day with it, and clean it every now and again, it's given me no problems. Added info: it has a rifle stock and buffer
I noted on the description PSA advertised the bolt is not only MPI'ed C-158, but now it is also HPT'ed, which is something folks have mentioned previously.
https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-stainless-mid-length-1-7-freedom-rifle-kit.html?utm_medium=email&utm_source=daily_deals&utm_campaign=20220330&utm_term=3/30/2022&utm_content=43526
Someday I’ll have to show you how much filing it took to make my non-blem PSA 9mm lower fit on an upper. And, no, I’m not the guy(s) on TOS that also had that problem.
Test before you file a Form 1.
Sounds like you got a really custom fit. :jester:
I don't hate PSA. In fact, PSA is my favorite econo brand AR. Are they as good as? No.
A 5.56 AR isn't difficult to get running right and once it's running right, will stay running right. Getting an AR to run right isn't some closely guarded secret available to a small, elite brotherhood. It isn't complicated either. But the information gets derided and lost by all the noise. That's the real reason why a PSA isn't a good choice. That's the real reason why the easy button is "Get a 6920". You don't have to know how to what makes an AR work right to run a Colt. It's the reason why I laugh (off line, of course) every time some crusader tells a newbie "A PSA (or some other "economy" AR) is a good starter AR and you don't have to pay for the pony." A PSA is not the right choice for the AR neophyte.
Nor is PSA isn't "utter garbage". Getting one to run right is a simple matter. IF you know what you're doing. But you can't count on being able to take one out of the box, or snap one together on your kitchen table and expect it to work.
That's what you get when you "pay for the pony" that you don't get with PSA or some other economy brand- peace of mind. With the price of gas and ammo, the savings you get buying the econo brand is lost making trips to the range to test fire the changes you hope fixed the problem. Especially at today's prices.
You can explain this till you're blue in the face and there will always be a squad of Crusaders chanting "Colt Fanboi" while their leader holds up the Holy Internet shouting "Yeah, but this guy's PSA never had a problem..."
This,
At the end of the day, they are 500 dollar guns. and generally speaking, most things that are sold 50 percent lower than other brands it should not be a surprise if issues arise, doesn't matter if its a 500 dollar AR or a 50k Dodge Ram. Now, with that being said, I picked up a 20 inch A4 Upper for a couple hundred bucks a few years ago and its been fine.
Only use a Colt or Sprinco spring. Accept no substitutes
Specialized Armament green springs are excellent as well. No idea who makes them for Ken though. :)
That particular section is a great place to go to learn about them and the products they let out the door.
Every so often a person with a problem will share pictures and it can be downright entertaining at times seeing some of the garbage that they actually sent out.
I will give them credit for their 'what seems to be' a no hassle policy of them swapping out any problem parts that are brought to their attention there and have even read threads where they promptly swapped out parts the owners of the firearms messed up themselves (no fault in the original parts - but owners doing bubba stuff and messing up the parts they had).
Have seriously seen threads where guys posted up about a particular problem they were having, described how they were trying to modify 'this' or do something to 'that' and things broke / went south and they ended up with a non functional gun (more or less admitting they HAD a working gun but did bubba stuff and broke it) and damned if PSA didn't replace the stuff anyway...
The best place that I’ve found to discuss PSA problems is there own forums. That’s how I found out how to fix my KS47 using Rock River parts. Sending it back to PSA for warranty work was a tremendous waste of time. I will have to say that I was impressed with the fit/finish as well as accuracy.
If PSA would just actually do some qc work, fix what was sent back to them and learn what their problems are from the warranty work they could have a decent product. But why fix what’s broken when broken is still making them money.
With that said my A4 upper with FN hammer forged cl barrel has been excellent. I used to have good luck with their small parts until their web sight became to hard to navigate.
I bought a PSA AK-V in February. It was the absolute biggest piece of shit I've ever gotten from them. The front and rear trunion were both crooked. They pressed the rivets in so tight it had compression circles in the receiver. The bolt looked like it got carved from a block of metal with a hammer and chisel instead of a CNC machine. The nitride finish on the bolt was so poor that it was worn off after 50 rounds. When you pulled the trigger and held it down, it would fire in 5 round bursts. Twice it completely let go and didn't stop firing until the magazine was empty. All 30 rounds. The upper handguard retainer would flop around without tension, and even open itself. The lower handguard retainer had no tension on it and the lower handguards would rattle around. Tried aluminum foil to tighten them. Needless to say, it got sent back for a refund. But I had to make one hell of a stink to get it. They just wanted the usual, "Send it in and we will look at it." I now have a Kalashnikov USA KP-9. For the same price, I will recommend the KUSA all day over any AK type carbine or rifle PSA sells. The quality difference is immense.
Five_Point_Five_Six
04-07-22, 09:59
I bought a PSA AK-V in February. It was the absolute biggest piece of shit I've ever gotten from them. The front and rear trunion were both crooked. They pressed the rivets in so tight it had compression circles in the receiver. The bolt looked like it got carved from a block of metal with a hammer and chisel instead of a CNC machine. The nitride finish on the bolt was so poor that it was worn off after 50 rounds. When you pulled the trigger and held it down, it would fire in 5 round bursts. Twice it completely let go and didn't stop firing until the magazine was empty. All 30 rounds. The upper handguard retainer would flop around without tension, and even open itself. The lower handguard retainer had no tension on it and the lower handguards would rattle around. Tried aluminum foil to tighten them. Needless to say, it got sent back for a refund. But I had to make one hell of a stink to get it. They just wanted the usual, "Send it in and we will look at it." I now have a Kalashnikov USA KP-9. For the same price, I will recommend the KUSA all day over any AK type carbine or rifle PSA sells. The quality difference is immense.
They sent you one of their post samples by mistake lmao!
....Getting an AR to run right isn't some closely guarded secret available to a small, elite brotherhood. It isn't complicated either. But the information gets derided and lost by all the noise. That's the real reason why a PSA isn't a good choice. That's the real reason why the easy button is "Get a 6920". You don't have to know how to what makes an AR work right to run a Colt. It's the reason why I laugh (off line, of course) every time some crusader tells a newbie "A PSA (or some other "economy" AR) is a good starter AR and you don't have to pay for the pony." A PSA is not the right choice for the AR neophyte.
Nor is PSA isn't "utter garbage". Getting one to run right is a simple matter. IF you know what you're doing. But you can't count on being able to take one out of the box, or snap one together on your kitchen table and expect it to work.
That's what you get when you "pay for the pony" that you don't get with PSA or some other economy brand- peace of mind. With the price of gas and ammo, the savings you get buying the econo brand is lost making trips to the range to test fire the changes you hope fixed the problem. Especially at today's prices.
You can explain this till you're blue in the face and there will always be a squad of Crusaders chanting "Colt Fanboi" while their leader holds up the Holy Internet shouting "Yeah, but this guy's PSA never had a problem..."
Couldn't have summed up the ENTIRE AR scene better....
In fact, it's what changed me years back, from recommending any new buyers on a budget toi build, to "just buy X complete rifle over here" for whatever was having a good sale at the moment in the tier 1/tier 2 category. Because it took me all of ONE f***ed up rifle to learn that lesson myself - a new owner to ARs is going to have no idea how to address a problem and the internet will NOT help them solve anything other than spending more money to not solve the problem, when they could simply have contacted CS for their rifle, maybe paid for shipping back, and had it fixed in one shot by the professionals that actually built the damn thing.
More along the lines of - After all the broken / defective stuff is replaced / refurbished / recycled THEN a guy might have something that is not a turd....
Indeed, it's just getting them to actually DO it. :laugh:
Had a fella years ago who was just getting into ARs, found out I was into them as well. So he asks me what to add to his rifle - he had a list of "stuff" like rails, stocks, etc. The rifle was one of the entry-model DPMS popular back then.
I told him if he was on a budget, to skip all that crap and buy good quality replacement parts (BCG, springs, etc) and ammo. And that if he really wanted to "customize" the rifle, he was better off selling the whole thing before he got to many rounds on it, and get something worth sinking the money into.
Well....
A couple days later he's on the AR Facebook group whining about "someone said my rifle sucked" and the nitwits there were busy doing what facebook gun groups do best... :rolleyes:
He's also the only person I know who ever bought a UTAS-15 shotgun. :laugh:
Ironically, about ten years later he seems to have wised up on his own and put together some nicer stuff.
So moral of the story - let people do their dumb shit, and when they get tired of wasting money it will eventually sink in for themselves.
bamashooter
04-08-22, 08:50
Glad to see this thread continues on. With great pride and admiration, I present a true, Tier-1 van. I can easily visualize Mr. T and the A-team quickly exiting to rescue a damsel in distress.
https://i.imgur.com/8jyRlLC.jpg
Inkslinger
04-08-22, 09:07
Glad to see this thread continues on. With great pride and admiration, I present a true, Tier-1 van. I can easily visualize Mr. T and the A-team quickly exiting to rescue a damsel in distress.
https://i.imgur.com/8jyRlLC.jpg
It’s probably waiting on a tow truck.
Glad to see this thread continues on. With great pride and admiration, I present a true, Tier-1 van. I can easily visualize Mr. T and the A-team quickly exiting to rescue a damsel in distress.
https://i.imgur.com/8jyRlLC.jpg
Dremel Team 6
titsonritz
04-08-22, 12:49
Glad to see this thread continues on. With great pride and admiration, I present a true, Tier-1 van. I can easily visualize Mr. T and the A-team quickly exiting to rescue a damsel in distress.
https://i.imgur.com/8jyRlLC.jpg
When did PSA start producing Mini-14s?
Glad to see this thread continues on. With great pride and admiration, I present a true, Tier-1 van. I can easily visualize Mr. T and the A-team quickly exiting to rescue a damsel in distress.
https://i.imgur.com/8jyRlLC.jpg
The van requires less work to be reliable than the advertised products...
I have never been impressed with their quality, I love what PSA is trying to do but they hurt themselves and their mission by putting out trash. Anyone who is a big AK guy knows their AK qc is so much worst. They are better then Anderson but nowhere Aero's quality for the price. The fans boys cry when they scream its all a scam, its just a roll mark. Yet I have never had a single issue with my LMT, Colt, or BCM rifles. I have seen numerous Anderson and psa rifles fail on the gun range I work at part time. I may have a pissed off wife and a empty wallet during builds but never have I felt scammed on over paying for a good item I depend my life to.
67801
https://ibb.co/Lnmzy52
I have had the same number of issues with my Colt’s and BCM’s(2) as I have with PSA. The only difference is PSA will actually offer to fix it.
Quality cost money, so does good employees....how can PSA offer decent prices stuff without the price going up....where it ventures into other competitor territory....
Quality cost money, so does good employees....how can PSA offer decent prices stuff without the price going up....where it ventures into other competitor territory....
By economies of scale.
For example, if you are buying 2,000 CHF barrels from FN, you are going to get a better price on them than the guy who buys 200. When you do that on numerous components it adds up.
The problem is that PSA's QC is not as good as brands one or two notches up on the price index such as BCM and Sionics.
One More Time
04-16-22, 20:41
By economies of scale.
For example, if you are buying 2,000 CHF barrels from FN, you are going to get a better price on them than the guy who buys 200. When you do that on numerous components it adds up.
The problem is that PSA's QC is not as good as brands one or two notches up on the price index such as BCM and Sionics.
It's not just the QC.
Take the FN 14.7" upper I got from them.
Everything looks fine and in spec.
The gas block while centered is not dimpled though, usually not a big deal till the FH is pinned.
That's kinda lame.
Since it is centered I'm just going to get a pin jig and put a 1/8" coil pin in it.
Pinning the gas block isn't a bad idea anyway.
Or zip the pin out of the FH, dimple the barrel then put the gas block back on with some Loctite 620 and knurled set screws.
And about $100 for a cool muzzle thingy since it's getting pinned.
By economies of scale.
For example, if you are buying 2,000 CHF barrels from FN, you are going to get a better price on them than the guy who buys 200. When you do that on numerous components it adds up.
The problem is that PSA's QC is not as good as brands one or two notches up on the price index such as BCM and Sionics.
Yup....and the QC component is worth the extra price to some, others might want a PSA due to price and either it doesn't bother them or they have enough knowhow to deal with issues. I have a PSA middy, but it was bought as a complete assembled upper then mated to a completed lower...it is not my primary HD rifle but a nice light range gun.
zebra20zebra20
04-17-22, 17:47
I have had the same number of issues with my Colt’s and BCM’s(2) as I have with PSA. The only difference is PSA will actually offer to fix it.
I agree with you. I have shot over 5,000 rounds of various PSA carbines and only had one issue, I had a FTE issue on a reload, and after that I replaced the ejector spring. I'll admit that PSA is not a high-end rifle/carbine but then again I don't expect to be in a prolonged war with the coming emeny evasion from Planet Mars!
It's not just the QC.
Take the FN 14.7" upper I got from them.
Everything looks fine and in spec.
The gas block while centered is not dimpled though, usually not a big deal till the FH is pinned.
That's kinda lame.
Since it is centered I'm just going to get a pin jig and put a 1/8" coil pin in it.
Pinning the gas block isn't a bad idea anyway.
Or zip the pin out of the FH, dimple the barrel then put the gas block back on with some Loctite 620 and knurled set screws.
And about $100 for a cool muzzle thingy since it's getting pinned.
Since it is centered just leave one set screw in, remove the other, use the hole as a jig to dimple, then install that set screw and repeat. No need to remove the P&W flash hider.
I pretty much use these gas blocks and pin them in addition to dimpling: https://algdefense.com/carbon-steel-gas-block.html
https://algdefense.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/g/a/gas_block-carbon_steel.jpg
If you read the instruction for the above block you'll see that Big G uses the block as a jig as I've indicated above:
https://geissele.com/amfile/file/download/file/9317aa42f90e53a906015028af61719d/product/42/
ChattanoogaPhil
04-18-22, 16:16
100+ posts later... is everyone adequately 'reminded'?
Some folks seem like they're jonesing for a Gecko45 'just as good' mall ninja to satisfy their 'PSA is junk' addiction. I'm not sure which is more pathetic.
Sorry for the interruption... carry on.
CobraJockey
04-26-23, 21:53
My Two Cents for the Thread.
I've bought 3 complete uppers and one stripped "MilSpec M4" Lower from PSA. Two I bought last year on sale, but NOT "Blems", for "future projects" when I had time, and the third a 20 incher complete upper to build a target piece with that stripped lower. The 20 incher with a SS premium barrel is nearly done and there have been some nuisance problems but nothing I couldn't remedy. The Lower was a POS, pin holes forged or "finished" too small for "MilSpec" pins, trigger guard holes that don't match MagPul trigger guards and the set screw hole too small and not threaded.
The Unacceptable one was a "PSA 16" M4 5.56 NATO 1/7 Phosphate MOE Upper With BCG, CH, & Rear MBUS - Black (https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-m4-5-56-nato-1-7-phosphate-moe-upper-with-bcg-ch-rear-mbus-black.html)" I paid $375 last year "on sale" for Xmas, notice it's cheaper now!
70251
I didn't notice when I inspected it on arrival that the front sight/gas block is canted to the Left, because I didn't look close or put it on a lower. A month ago I "got around to it" building it on a another lower I bought and when using my trusting calibrated 5.56 Chamber Laser, the sight is over to the left so much ANY rear sight I put on it has to be MAXED adjusted to the left and still not lined up with the front sight post and the laser bore sight!!
I contacted PSA and the email I got was this:
"Please allow up to 30-45 business days for your repair to be diagnosed and completed. You will be notified once the repair is complete and your item has been processed for shipment.
ATTENTION: Due to new ATF Regulations. If your firearm has a brace on it. Please remove the brace before sending your firearm in for repair. "
Best Regards,
Todd
Palmetto State Armory
Warranty Department
So a WEEK back to PSA, probably 6 WEEKS to "diagnose" and repair, and a week by ground back!!?? 2 months is BS!!
Last time I buy anything from PSA.
So a WEEK back to PSA, probably 6 WEEKS to "diagnose" and repair, and a week by ground back!!?? 2 months is BS!!
Last time I buy anything from PSA.
That would suck if you only had one AR.
So the canted front sight base dilemma has been going on at PSA almost 10 years.. How can they not fix this issue?
Instead of sending it back I’d have cut and ground off the front sight and put an optic on the rifle.
For me not worth the hassle of sending it back.
friends don't let friends buy PSA
My Two Cents for the Thread.
I've bought 3 complete uppers and one stripped "MilSpec M4" Lower from PSA. Two I bought last year on sale, but NOT "Blems", for "future projects" when I had time, and the third a 20 incher complete upper to build a target piece with that stripped lower. The 20 incher with a SS premium barrel is nearly done and there have been some nuisance problems but nothing I couldn't remedy. The Lower was a POS, pin holes forged or "finished" too small for "MilSpec" pins, trigger guard holes that don't match MagPul trigger guards and the set screw hole too small and not threaded.
The Unacceptable one was a "PSA 16" M4 5.56 NATO 1/7 Phosphate MOE Upper With BCG, CH, & Rear MBUS - Black (https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-m4-5-56-nato-1-7-phosphate-moe-upper-with-bcg-ch-rear-mbus-black.html)" I paid $375 last year "on sale" for Xmas, notice it's cheaper now!
70251
I didn't notice when I inspected it on arrival that the front sight/gas block is canted to the Left, because I didn't look close or put it on a lower. A month ago I "got around to it" building it on a another lower I bought and when using my trusting calibrated 5.56 Chamber Laser, the sight is over to the left so much ANY rear sight I put on it has to be MAXED adjusted to the left and still not lined up with the front sight post and the laser bore sight!!
I contacted PSA and the email I got was this:
"Please allow up to 30-45 business days for your repair to be diagnosed and completed. You will be notified once the repair is complete and your item has been processed for shipment.
ATTENTION: Due to new ATF Regulations. If your firearm has a brace on it. Please remove the brace before sending your firearm in for repair. "
Best Regards,
Todd
Palmetto State Armory
Warranty Department
So a WEEK back to PSA, probably 6 WEEKS to "diagnose" and repair, and a week by ground back!!?? 2 months is BS!!
Last time I buy anything from PSA.
You bought from a budget brand, deal with it.
Just like years ago, the point is that many of us have had good experiences with PSA but as with any budget brand, just expect to be disappointed. At least PSA is known for taking care of their issues.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Since PSA and DPMS are under the same umbrella now, presumably DPMS is just a rebranded PSA?
msedward43
04-30-23, 02:15
lol, so a 13 page thread because a buffer end pad disentigrated??? *sigh
is PSA "just as gud?" of course not. But are they better than many people say so ? absolutely.
/smh
hoopharted
04-30-23, 12:33
well , i needed a tractor/farm gun to take down coyotes when it presented , the old Marlin 783 was great for fox , but with the massive increase in coyotes in the area i needed something with more umph , couldnt see trashing any of my good rifles on a tractor ,so i decided to do cheap and just build a beater
bought all the parts from PSA on sale or with coupon , had a functioning rifle for a wopping $380 dollars , i already had a romeo 5 , and i already had a enhanced trigger i pulled from another rifle that was ok , just not great , but perfect for this , thats the only things i did not buy , i did not concern with colors ,finishes , just cheap because it was going to get rattle canned
granted i doubt i have much more than 500 rds through it but the gun groups plenty good for what i need which is to hit a coyote size target at 100yds , and at 100 im doing maybe 3 1/2 to 4 inch group in 5 shots , in the 3 years since i built it ive gotten 2 coyotes with it and missed one Fox
this winter was the first time i did anything to it , i upgraded the handguard to a FF A2 handguard and a put a more comfortable stock that was on a different rifle that i upgraded , so a tad lighter and allot more comfortable , i have zero complaints with PSA, i think the fac they dod what they do is a plus for the community , they are not money grubby
CobraJockey
05-01-23, 17:02
All three are very DIFFERENT styles - carbine, CQB and target. OK with you?
You never bought some things on sale for use later???
CobraJockey
05-01-23, 17:04
So the canted front sight base dilemma has been going on at PSA almost 10 years.. How can they not fix this issue?
Yeah, I've noticed that. MANY many post on various forum about this same issue over many years. Ya get the impression they don't care much about QC or QA and Customer Satisfaction.
CobraJockey
05-01-23, 17:08
I hope you're kidding about that! (I’d have cut and ground off the front sight).
You can just remove an A Frame front sight and replace it with a Gas Block.
I spent 2.6 years on an extended USAF "vacation" in Nam and I have a soft spot for having at least one "A frame" front sight AR.
My other two do not have this sight.
CobraJockey
05-01-23, 17:10
friends don't let friends buy PSA
AMEN, from now on.
CobraJockey
05-01-23, 17:28
well , i needed a tractor/farm gun to take down coyotes when it presented , the old Marlin 783 was great for fox , but with the massive increase in coyotes in the area i needed something with more umph , couldnt see trashing any of my good rifles on a tractor ,so i decided to do cheap and just build a beater
I grew up on a "family farm" in the Midwest, 5 miles square, 42 family members from Grandfather, his 6 brothers with wive and children, his 2 sisters and their husbands and kids, cousins and 2nd cousins, 10 to 20 permanent and seasonal workers all living on the farm, cereal crops, dairy, chickens and hogs.
I inherited my grandfathers solution for Coyotes, Foxes, Badgers, and Raccoons, a 1911 Winchester 1892 in 25-20WCF he bought first thing when he and his brothers and sisters migrated from German Bohemia. I was used so much, it's on it's 3rd Barrel I put on. I love that lever gun so much I bought a Browning (FN) made "B92" in .357 Mag.
CobraJockey
05-01-23, 17:31
You bought from a budget brand, deal with it.
Just like years ago, the point is that many of us have had good experiences with PSA but as with any budget brand, just expect to be disappointed. At least PSA is known for taking care of their issues.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
$375 for just an Upper with BCG is hardly Budget, smartass. You must be a real ass at christmas time. "Deal With It"
$375 for just an Upper with BCM is hardly Budget, smartass. You must be a real ass at christmas time. "Deal With It"
I assume you meant BCG, in which case, that is absolutely a budget option. Maybe not your budget, but in this community, that's cheap enough to be a clue that it may have an issue.
$375 for just an Upper with BCM is hardly Budget, smartass. You must be a real ass at christmas time. "Deal With It"
Unfortunately...it is budget and yes I have a PSA complete upper with an FN barrel........
titsonritz
05-01-23, 23:20
$375 for just an Upper with BCM is hardly Budget, smartass. You must be a real ass at christmas time. "Deal With It"
Considering one can spend that neighborhood price tag on a FCG, most would consider that "budget"
https://geissele.com/triggers.html?product_list_order=price&product_list_dir=desc
That said I sent $200 on my PSA upper complete with BCG.
msedward43
05-02-23, 04:40
$375 for just an Upper with BCM is hardly Budget, smartass. You must be a real ass at christmas time. "Deal With It"
actually yes it is. it very much is budget in the AR world.
ViniVidivici
05-04-23, 13:20
In my experience, most PSA is mostly good stuff, but like with all budget options, it helps if you're your own gunsmith.
Just picked up this DPMS A4 clone as a range/target plinker. Since PSA and DPMS are now under the same umbrella, wouldn't be surprised if this is just a PSA with DPMS markings. Came with a MBUS rear sight but I slapped on a PSA carry handle and a basic sling. I believe these are the "fat" handguards?
Not an expert on forge marks, but the carry handle has a square marking and the upper receiver has what appears to be a keyhole shape.
https://i.imgur.com/4hPwPEwl.jpg
hotbiggun42
05-06-23, 21:04
Guess im the only person who has had luck with PSA! Yah me
I have a few bits from Palmetto, it's definitely better than the stuff I used to order out of Shotgun News back in the day...Man, some of those kits were rough!
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