Patriotism as a Love

[JediGuy]

I happened to start reading The Four Loves by C.S. Lewis in the last couple days, and an unexpected section on “love for country” presented some ideas that ring true.

https://www.allsaintswandsworth.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/the-four-loves.pdf

Page 30/177 of the PDF linked starts the section, though the whole book has been interesting so far.

As I read some of the arguing back/forth here over the last couple years, plus the deluge of people in 2016 who declared they would leave the US if Trump won, even to the actions of everyday Ukrainians in the past weeks, Lewis’ words ring true and valuable.

[chuckman]

Man, I love this country. I mean, love it. That's not to imply we're perfect; far from it. But I have travelled enough to see some truly awful places...awful governments, awful people, awful things done in the name of religion, etc. For all of its (many) faults, this is still the best place in the world. All of those people who have been bitching about fascism in the name of Trump or communism/socialism in the name of name-your-most-disliked-democrat-here haven't been in countries where those ideologies rule and have for-real consequences.

[gaijin]

Man, I love this country. I mean, love it. That's not to imply we're perfect; far from it. But I have travelled enough to see some truly awful places...awful governments, awful people, awful things done in the name of religion, etc. For all of its (many) faults, this is still the best place in the world. All of those people who have been bitching about fascism in the name of Trump or communism/socialism in the name of name-your-most-disliked-democrat-here haven't been in countries where those ideologies rule and have for-real consequences.

Absolutely. "We" are the best thing out there.
I am ALWAYS glad to be heading back "home".

[Johnny Rico]

Man, I love this country. I mean, love it. That's not to imply we're perfect; far from it. But I have travelled enough to see some truly awful places...awful governments, awful people, awful things done in the name of religion, etc. For all of its (many) faults, this is still the best place in the world. All of those people who have been bitching about fascism in the name of Trump or communism/socialism in the name of name-your-most-disliked-democrat-here haven't been in countries where those ideologies rule and have for-real consequences.

+ infinity. I'm an immigrant kid, I came here as a pre-pubescent, but I remember enough about the ancestral homeland that I thank God my parents were willing to sacrifice their comfortable lives to ensure that their children and grandchildren could have better ones. This country is the best in the world, the best that ever was. It dismays me that so many people who were born here have such little appreciation for what they inherited.

[SteyrAUG]

Man, I love this country. I mean, love it. That's not to imply we're perfect; far from it. But I have travelled enough to see some truly awful places...awful governments, awful people, awful things done in the name of religion, etc. For all of its (many) faults, this is still the best place in the world. All of those people who have been bitching about fascism in the name of Trump or communism/socialism in the name of name-your-most-disliked-democrat-here haven't been in countries where those ideologies rule and have for-real consequences.

And I've been to some wonderful countries, seen some great things and met really nice people but I still haven't seen anything I'd rather trade for. Switzerland is the closest thing I've seen and I have some friends who became Swiss citizens, and while they have some cool stuff that we don't have they still have many of the same problems and don't enjoy a lot of the things we have here.

I could live there if I had to, but I don't think I'd want to trade.

[SteyrAUG]

It dismays me that so many people who were born here have such little appreciation for what they inherited.

You know how some kids who don't realize how good they actually have it go through that stage where they hate their parents? Well some of them never grew out of it and now project the same BS onto their country.

I actually have more respect for Russians who love their land, even if they understood communism hurts, than I do for the liberal crybabies who want the US to be the "most evil nation in the world" because whatever.

[flenna]

Here is an interesting, although predictable, poll. The headline is true, if not a little deceiving, but the article breaks down who would actually stay and fight for this country. Kudos to the old guys.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/majority-of-americans-would-stay-and-fight-if-russia-invaded-us-poll/ar-AAUNg9s?ocid=uxbndlbing

[The_War_Wagon]

I love America in spite of demtards. There's nothing so wrong with us a few thousand funerals won't fix.

[SteyrAUG]

I love America in spite of demtards. There's nothing so wrong with us a few thousand funerals won't fix.

Love this country, never really been crazy about the actual government that runs things.

[jsbhike]

Nice to see this topic worded this way instead of the version I am usually seeing where turds/turd supporters lobby for becoming 3.8% worse claiming it is ok since we still won't be as crappy as somewhere else.

[drsal]

Many that are born here simply fail to appreciate what they have, like humans everywhere. Despite 'shortages' at the local groceries, the shelves are damn well stocked. Despite the idiot antifa/blm riots of last year, cities are by and large, fairly peaceful and safe. If one calls the police, they will respond and act without the need for a bribe. Despite the retarded .gov mask /covid mandates, still better than the Australian tyranny. Despite abusive gun laws in NY, Ca, Ma, NJ, etc one can say phuck you and move to Az,Tx, Pa, Fl, etc. Given a choice between living here or Argentina, Mexico, England, Italy, Hungary, Israel, France, etc. I'll take my chances here. The only bad thing here are the imbeciles in the .gov, but that is universal problem !
I've lived briefly in other countries (6-8 month stints), Canada, Scotland, Mexico, Austria, Malta (1mo), Israel (2mo) and Spain. All were nice, but preferred to be back in the USA.

[Averageman]

I served my country from 19 to 56, I love it, but it breaks my heart to see what it has become.
I'm looking in to being an ex pat.

[The_War_Wagon]

Here's a good article contextualizing Lewis thoughts to the American experience.


C.S. Lewis on Love of Country and Love of God: An Independence Day Reflection (https://www.religiousfreedominstitute.org/blog/cs-lewis-on-love-of-country-and-love-of-god-an-independence-day-reflection)

Eric Patterson
July 2, 2021
CRFE, North America


Most Americans agree with John Adams’ 1776 sentiment that American Independence Day:

…will be the most memorable Epoch in the History of America. I am apt to believe that it will be celebrated, by succeeding Generations, as the great anniversary Festival. It ought to be commemorated, as the Day of Deliverance by solemn Acts of Devotion to God Almighty. It ought to be solemnized with Pomp and Parade, with Shews, Games, Sports, Guns, Bells, Bonfires and Illuminations from one End of this Continent to the other from this Time forward forever more.

Yet, in recent years there has been some question about what the nature of appropriate patriotism is and debates have broken out over the ideals of the Founding Fathers, how rightly to come to terms with injustice in U.S. history, and whether patriotism is ultimately a dirty word.

It is not. Patriotism, according to C.S. Lewis, is “love of country.” In Lewis’ The Four Loves he helps us understand what genuine patriotism is and how it relates to faith and religious freedom. I reflected on similar themes in a recent podcast.

Lewis, who volunteered to fight in the First World War, though he had no obligation to, and who volunteered again at age 40 to participate in the second, had given great thought to what constitutes love of country despite Great Britain’s limitations, inadequacies, and even sins. He begins his conversation about patriotism by defining it as “love of home” and “love of the familiar.” That love of one’s neighborhood, friends, family, and community values can be too parochial, and it is best if it points us to a wider set of obligations and loves: love of one’s country. My love of the familiar and my love of country should make me respect the Frenchman’s love of what is familiar to him and his country. My patriotism recognizes the valuable patriotism of the Frenchman, the Egyptian, the Brazilian, and others. These can be rightly-ordered loves.

Lewis recognizes that “the actual history of every country is full of shabby and shameful things.” We should not allow ourselves to believe only a fanciful history of our own country’s past, avoiding its warts and its sins. At the same time, however, what is good in that past should be conserved and should be passed down to our children and grandchildren as the good lessons of history. Proper patriotism learns from, and is inspired by, the past. Proper patriotism asks questions, seeks answers, and avoids both demonizing and idolizing the past.

Indeed, Lewis asks, “Who can condemn what clearly makes many people, at many important moments, behave so much better than they could have done without its help?” Patriotism moves individuals beyond selfishness and conceit to give and to share and to sacrifice, particularly in times of duress and violence. Lewis goes on to say that love of home and one’s people should point us to higher loves and higher duties, beyond “our mere natural impulse.”

Thus, for Lewis, the rightly ordered love of patriotism points us to ultimate loves, including love of God. Lewis’ famous knight, the mouse Reepicheep in the Chronicles of Narnia, is a case in point. Reepicheep loves his comrade knights, loves his homeland, and serves his country valiantly. But, these loves pull him up and outside of himself, not into himself. His love of Narnia ultimately creates a deeper longing in him. He wants to seek the higher love, which in this case is a portrait of heaven called Aslan’s country.

We see here how patriotism works in a land that protects religious freedom. One’s love of country, at once expansive and limited, is not in conflict with the deep commitments of faith because the great religions all recognize the importance of political community, justice, and the out-working of neighbor love. The patriot tries to live these things out, both due to love of neighbor in society and as an act of duty to the Creator. Patriotism helps point us to things bigger than ourselves; religion provides the truths of what that reality is.

Lewis warned against negative forms of patriotism, which he described as seeing “Man as God.” I call this chauvinistic hyper-nationalism—i.e., when the government, the party, or the ideology is idolized and makes ultimate truth claims, thus demanding allegiance in all aspects of life. It is exclusivist and superior: it places itself above all others. The Other is always inferior, subordinate, lesser, and even sub-human. The Nazis and the Communists of the last century were such evil “patriots.” We’ve seen the same type of ideology in Islamic States’ violent Islamism.

One final note from Lewis: patriotism is grateful acceptance of where God has placed us. Just as 1 Corinthians tells us that love “seeks the good,” so too we are enjoined to seek the good of our neighbors. We are to learn and transmit the lessons of our nation and our heritage to the next generation. John Adams had it right when he said that before the fireworks and parades, Independence Day “ought to be commemorated, as the Day of Deliverance by solemn Acts of Devotion to God Almighty.” Doing that publicly, in a free society, is a responsible expression of our religious freedom.

Additional Resources:

Foreign Policy ProvCast, Ep. 65 | The Patriotism of C.S. Lewis, Providence (July 2, 2021)

“Honoring Old Glory on Flag Day,” Providence (June 14, 2021)

[Tanner]

I've lived briefly in other countries (6-8 month stints), Canada, Scotland, Mexico, Austria, Malta (1mo), Israel (2mo) and Spain. All were nice, but preferred to be back in the USA.

I have spent time in Spain, very easy to live there, contemplating part time residence there for 6-7 months, maybe moving there full time in the near future.