View Full Version : 1,200 horsepower electric Maserati
Looks like it might turn a few heads...
Maserati plans to offer electric versions of its entire lineup beginning next year with a new GranTurismo car featuring more than 1,200 horsepower, the company said Thursday.
The GranTurismo “Folgore” will be the first all-electric vehicle for the famed Italian brand, which is owned by Stellantis, formerly Fiat Chrysler.
Maserati CEO Davide Grasso on Thursday described the EV transformation, including a target to go all-electric by 2030, as a “defining moment” for the company.
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/17/maserati-to-go-all-electric-starting-with-1200-horsepower-granturismo.html
I've been wondering when NASCAR will go all electric. I'm not a huge racing fan, but I tune in some Sundays if I'm bored. They've become so politically correct, it's disgusting.
They've effed up the cars so badly now. Electric would be a perfect encore for those morons.
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-17-22, 12:13
Endurance still seems to be an issue- as in thermal management of the discharging batteries. That electric Porsche (Taycan?) was one of the first to be able to do a few hot laps before going into limp home mode IIRC.
Electric is fast. Doesn't really break. Doesn't need tuning. Electric cars are like electric vibrators; not as fun as the real thing, kind of cheating, people rarely actually run the batteries all the way down on one trip, are popular with women, and pussy's love them.
Endurance still seems to be an issue- as in thermal management of the discharging batteries. That electric Porsche (Taycan?) was one of the first to be able to do a few hot laps before going into limp home mode IIRC.
Electric is fast. Doesn't really break. Doesn't need tuning. Electric cars are like electric vibrators; not as fun as the real thing, kind of cheating, people rarely actually run the batteries all the way down on one trip, are popular with women, and pussy's love them.
Laughed so hard I almost swallowed my dip.
Electric is the future of transportation. How those motors get powered is the only real question. Batteries, fuel cells, lightning bolts at 88 MPH. That's always been the question. Turning hydrocarbons into momentum is damned complex. It's just the best form of on-board energy storage we have come up with so far. "Fueling" those electric motors in a convenient, reliable fashion has been the sticking point for a long time.
As an EE I've been involved and aware of the battery technologies and their limits for literally decades. Starting from lead acid to nicads to nickel metal hydride to lithium ion / li-poly to lithium iron, etc.
Every year battery power density increases. And every few years to a decade someone comes up with a new technology which obsoletes the prior.
The current technology is the first level where combined with high efficiency DC brushless motors that electric cars are practical in terms of range and functionality.
They continue to improve each year.
I'm not an EV bigot, but I did put 70,000 miles on a pair of Nissan leafs and have realized that for running around in town they are hard to beat.
For out of state trips, not so much. Yet.
Just like the tipping point where they became practical, there will be another tipping a point in the future where they become a compelling obvious answer and you really have to go out of your way not to use one. (And pay more)
A good example of this is the portable jump start packs which used to use 15 lb lead acids and you might be able to get one jump out of them, maybe two.
Now they're replaced with 1 lb lithium ion packs which can jump three or four cars for temps.
Lead acids are only used in cars because they're cheap and the electronics to charge them used to be significantly easier. You're starting to see lithium ions used for starting batteries in performance situations and the battery has its own charge controller so it's a plug and play operation.
I wanna see this car's time at the 'Ring...make my ole 650hp ZL1 look like it's standing still.
These high hp / awd sparky's are gonna kill the romance of the rumbling V8 but what ya gonna do...instant torque on all 4 tires are gonna bite some inexperienced drivers as more hit the road I'm betting.
Laughed so hard I almost swallowed my dip.
Electric is the future of transportation. How those motors get powered is the only real question. Batteries, fuel cells, lightning bolts at 88 MPH. That's always been the question. Turning hydrocarbons into momentum is damned complex. It's just the best form of on-board energy storage we have come up with so far. "Fueling" those electric motors in a convenient, reliable fashion has been the sticking point for a long time.
EV is the future for some (City dwellers and those that hardly drive), but not most. Hydrogen/Ammonia fuel cell vehicles is the future for most.
When they can drag our 14000# fifth wheel across multiple states in 10° or less temps with only stopping for the length of time it takes to fill the fuel tank and take a leak, I'll get interested, until then no thanks.
EV is the future for some (City dwellers and those that hardly drive), but not most. Hydrogen/Ammonia fuel cell vehicles is the future for most.
I meant electric motor drive in general. Motors we got down and they will only keep improving. There's a reason we use electric motors for so many of our needs. They are efficient, reliable, and very durable. The source of onboard electrical generation or storage is the crux of the problem. That solution may be improved batteries, fuel cells, or who knows what.
When they can drag our 14000# fifth wheel across multiple states in 10° or less temps with only stopping for the length of time it takes to fill the fuel tank and take a leak, I'll get interested, until then no thanks.
What you ask is technically possible now. Just not really at a production/market level. It'll get there eventually. At 10° you'd love the near instant heat generation available from a fuel cell.
Fuel cells show promise but who knows. I mean they were invented around the same time as the internal combustion engine but languished. They really got a boost from use in the space program, and have become an industry. They really shine in stationary power and onsite use like warehouse forklifts. It a long way from there to the highway though. Lotta hurdles left but it'll happen one way or another.
Electric exotics like the OP Maserati are way cool to look at. Most current offerings to me are kinda Meh. They don't fit my needs. Granted I simply commute most days. But towing trailers, loading stuff in the truck, and long road trips are very regular for me.
What you ask is technically possible now. Just not really at a production/market level. It'll get there eventually. At 10° you'd love the near instant heat generation available from a fuel cell.
Fuel cells show promise but who knows. I mean they were invented around the same time as the internal combustion engine but languished. They really got a boost from use in the space program, and have become an industry. They really shine in stationary power and onsite use like warehouse forklifts. It a long way from there to the highway though. Lotta hurdles left but it'll happen one way or another.
Electric exotics like the OP Maserati are way cool to look at. Most current offerings to me are kinda Meh. They don't fit my needs. Granted I simply commute most days. But towing trailers, loading stuff in the truck, and long road trips are very regular for me.
The getting there eventually is why I have zero interest at this point, to me they need to offer something better than our current setup before I'll even consider them.
When we get to the point of them doing more than the current engines do, I'll revisit the topic.
EV is the future for some (City dwellers and those that hardly drive), but not most. Hydrogen/Ammonia fuel cell vehicles is the future for most.Fuel cells generate electricity, that's pretty much the definition of a fuel cell
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-17-22, 19:41
I would love an electric powered bush plane. Put it on floats, solar cells in the wings. Fly around. Land, fish and sleep while the plane recharges, rinse and repeat. Super capacitors would seem to be an interesting way to get the power issue in climb out. Hadn't really thought about it, but you could use the prop as regenerate the battery on the way down and have it act like a speed brake. No turbocharger. No more 1920s air cooled engine. Poor man's Turbine.
Adrenaline_6
03-17-22, 22:39
Waiting to see if the HET (Hunstable Electric Turbine) will be successful. It supposedly has 2 times the amount of torque density, 3 times more power, and offers 10 percent more range . It also runs at a lower rpm which might be able to get rid of the required speed reduction gearing and just be direct drive. We'll see.
https://www.autoblog.com/2019/10/07/hunsable-electric-turbine/
1_click_off
03-19-22, 17:14
I've been wondering when NASCAR will go all electric. I'm not a huge racing fan, but I tune in some Sundays if I'm bored. They've become so politically correct, it's disgusting.
They've effed up the cars so badly now. Electric would be a perfect encore for those morons.
They had full electric Indy cars a few years ago, remember watching them race on tv. They will have hybrid sometime this year. https://www.theverge.com/2019/8/1/20750192/indycar-hybrid-2022-specs-plans-electric
When they can drag our 14000# fifth wheel across multiple states in 10° or less temps with only stopping for the length of time it takes to fill the fuel tank and take a leak, I'll get interested, until then no thanks.
Absolutely. For starters, I despise and naturally push back against anything shoved down my throat, just on principle. Second, like you said on a long trip I do NOT want to spend an hour or two "filling up" or worry about how cold it is outside. Until then they can pound sand. Oh, and I'm not driving around in some faggoty little Speck; maybe for a work car and my 50 minute commute each way (like I have a Nissan Kicks for now), but I like my truck.
Guys, I see this push for EV and the concurrent and intentional skyrocketing gas prices as a hallmark of the Leftist agenda. That alone makes me want to reject it entirely. I NEVER want to see the Left succeed, and this crap is just one more item in their agenda that needs to be quashed.
I am not opposed to electric cars in principle. But they are the dream of the left without thinking through, how to make the electricity to fuel the cars. I was told that in parts of CA, people are now only being allowed a 15 minute charge.
Second, if the Petro dollar and SWIFT go away, we may be in a economic mess big enough and bad enough electric cars will no longer be financially viable.
Past owner of Maserati Ghibli, very pretty sedan, 0-60 around 5-6sec which was ok, mechanically meh at best, traded after 1 yr, won't repeat the purchase. Present car Tesla Model S Plaid, first American car I've owned in years ....1000Hp 0-60 in 2 seconds, faster than a motorcycle, beats every exotic out there, have beaten lambos and Ferraris, which abound in South Beach, range 380-390 miles, charging stations abound. To those of you who think roar old school muscle car is the chit, drive a Tesla. Even the standard model 3 goes 0-60 in 4 sec and gets a 350 mile range. Charging stations all over I-95 and turnpike, driven to Atlanta from Miami without issue. In 5-7 years charging stations will be almost as common as gas stations. Talk smack about EV all you want, they are the future, better than any GM/Ford made piece of crap produced, including the new 2022 corvette which is a motorized abortion given reports of multiple engine malfunctions, where local dealers can't even locate the system error. This from two associates who purchased them and traded them in roughly 6-8 months later for Porsche 911s and tesla plaid. Ev are for those who hardly drive, bullshit. I drive quite a bit visiting various facilities in South & SW Florida, never an issue, so far. No machine is 100% and yes I also own a gas SUV. But the Tesla is my daily driver. Also, NOTHING to do with being green or eco friendly, could not give a shit about that, just a fast AF fun ride.
I am not opposed to electric cars in principle. But they are the dream of the left without thinking through, how to make the electricity to fuel the cars. I was told that in parts of CA, people are now only being allowed a 15 minute charge.
You were told wrong, friends in Laguna and LA have not had any issues at charging stations, no limits, charge to capacity and move on. Also, 99% of Tesla/EV owners have chargers in their garage.
1_click_off
03-19-22, 21:03
You were told wrong, friends in Laguna and LA have not had any issues at charging stations, no limits, charge to capacity and move on. Also, 99% of Tesla/EV owners have chargers in their garage.
What is real life charge time for an almost dead battery?
How much does a full charge cost?
Do rates change daily or real time?
Is it cheaper to charge off peak hours?
Nissan leafs have a super fast charge option. Zero to 80% in 30 minutes.
Bigger malls now have these as to many car dealerships.
480v at 150 amps (72kw), pretty amazing.
At our house I had a 4-Hour charger which was 0 to 100%. Most of the time charged with rarely over 2 hours with typical usage. As did my work when I was commuting and many other places. These are called type 2.
The charger that comes with it is considered an overnight charger, 12 hours for full charge. But runs on a 110v outlet.
Electric cost was noise level. With the impact of the state tax credit, fuel and maintenance savings, etc we essentially drove the leafs for free for 4 years.
Even without the state tax credit $2500 a year it was much less expensive than driving a regular vehicles with $4 gas at the time.
Two years, 38k miles, not a single penny for a maintenance, just rotated the tires.
Forgot the last question: in our state most areas have differential rates by peak/off peak. Our power company did not, but did offer some kind of rebate if you had an EV since most charging takes place off peak.
The Nissan leafs had pretty clever and well thought out delayed charge timers. On ours you could also activate it from your phone.
During winter you could go ahead and activate the heat via your phone or timer while it was still plugged in on charge so you didn't use battery to bring the car up the temperature.
High efficiency heat pump, but with, seat heaters for front and rear, and steering wheel heater, you didn't need a lot of heat.
The leafs had a couple of different modes for regenerative braking. The more aggressive mode which I ended up using the most the vehicle essentially becomes a one pedal car as for normal driving including start and stop commute traffic you virtually never use the regular brake.
The regenerative breaking is quite effective and really extends your range.
I don't want anything crammed down our throat. We did this as it was essentially free to drive and was a successful experiment.
But then again, we live in a state that has not changed nuclear power away, but also has a good mix of hydro and natural gas capability. We actually have excess power at night that could handle half the drivers in the state if they switched.
Our other vehicles at the time was a 1 ton Cummins ram quad cab 4x4 which I still have and a sprinter passenger van as the family truckster. (Replaced a series of crappy suburbans)
I now have a Forester for trips/daily and the ram for heavy stuff.
To the EV lovers in here.....can you take a 700 mile road trip and make it as fast as a gas vehicle? Speed-wise I'm sure you'd be fine, but what about that "refill"? Sorry, when I travel a long distance I do it to freaking get there, not "enjoy" the ride. An hour stop only adds to the misery. No thanks, not until that is fixed and I'm also not taking that trip in a Speck.
1_click_off
03-19-22, 22:09
To the EV lovers in here.....can you take a 700 mile road trip and make it as fast as a gas vehicle? Speed-wise I'm sure you'd be fine, but what about that "refill"? Sorry, when I travel a long distance I do it to freaking get there, not "enjoy" the ride. An hour stop only adds to the misery. No thanks, not until that is fixed and I'm also not taking that trip in a Speck.
Buddy looking at a Tesla showed me a “plan my trip” website Tesla has.
Example: New Orleans to Nashville
Stop and charge:
Mobile Al for 10min.
Crestview Fl 20min
Greenville AL 25min
Auburn Al 20min
Birmingham Al 60min
Then complete the trip to Nashville.
https://www.tesla.com/trips
1_click_off
03-19-22, 22:15
Buddy looking at a Tesla showed me a “plan my trip” website Tesla has.
Example: New Orleans to Nashville
Stop and charge:
Mobile Al for 10min.
Crestview Fl 20min
Greenville AL 25min
Auburn Al 20min
Birmingham Al 60min
Then complete the trip to Nashville.
https://www.tesla.com/trips
Man, look at that route on the map to be able to hit charging stations. Crestview? Really, you have to drive over to Crestview for 20min along the way???
No thank you.
To the EV lovers in here.....can you take a 700 mile road trip and make it as fast as a gas vehicle? Speed-wise I'm sure you'd be fine, but what about that "refill"? Sorry, when I travel a long distance I do it to freaking get there, not "enjoy" the ride. An hour stop only adds to the misery. No thanks, not until that is fixed and I'm also not taking that trip in a Speck.
Longest trip I took was 620 -/+ miles to Atlanta burbs just to go on road trip with new vehicle for the fun of it; furthest I would drive around the state is +/- 200-250 miles, anything over that I fly.
Past owner of Maserati Ghibli, very pretty sedan, 0-60 around 5-6sec which was ok, mechanically meh at best, traded after 1 yr, won't repeat the purchase. Present car Tesla Model S Plaid, first American car I've owned in years ....1000Hp 0-60 in 2 seconds, faster than a motorcycle, beats every exotic out there, have beaten lambos and Ferraris, which abound in South Beach, range 380-390 miles, charging stations abound. To those of you who think roar old school muscle car is the chit, drive a Tesla. Even the standard model 3 goes 0-60 in 4 sec and gets a 350 mile range. Charging stations all over I-95 and turnpike, driven to Atlanta from Miami without issue. In 5-7 years charging stations will be almost as common as gas stations. Talk smack about EV all you want, they are the future, better than any GM/Ford made piece of crap produced, including the new 2022 corvette which is a motorized abortion given reports of multiple engine malfunctions, where local dealers can't even locate the system error. This from two associates who purchased them and traded them in roughly 6-8 months later for Porsche 911s and tesla plaid. Ev are for those who hardly drive, bullshit. I drive quite a bit visiting various facilities in South & SW Florida, never an issue, so far. No machine is 100% and yes I also own a gas SUV. But the Tesla is my daily driver. Also, NOTHING to do with being green or eco friendly, could not give a shit about that, just a fast AF fun ride.
Everything about this made me happy except the Corvette problems.
Buddy looking at a Tesla showed me a “plan my trip” website Tesla has.
Example: New Orleans to Nashville
Stop and charge:
Mobile Al for 10min.
Crestview Fl 20min
Greenville AL 25min
Auburn Al 20min
Birmingham Al 60min
Then complete the trip to Nashville.
https://www.tesla.com/trips
Those stops added 2 hours and 15 minutes to a trip, just dead-stop, no progress, sitting there while it charges. No thanks. THAT is what I was talking about when I mentioned EV's not being "there yet". One would probably suffice for my M-F commute, but if I wanted to take a long road trip forget it. Those delays making your trip that much longer are unacceptable.
The ICE is gonna be around for quite a while longer (thank God).
The day I look down and see a vagina between my legs, I may consider an electric car. That’s a big maybe. Until then, I’ll stick with my dinosaur burners.
The day I look down and see a vagina between my legs, I may consider an electric car. That’s a big maybe. Until then, I’ll stick with my dinosaur burners.
The definition of a boorish and infantile comment.
Buddy looking at a Tesla showed me a “plan my trip” website Tesla has.
Example: New Orleans to Nashville
Stop and charge:
Mobile Al for 10min.
Crestview Fl 20min
Greenville AL 25min
Auburn Al 20min
Birmingham Al 60min
Then complete the trip to Nashville.
https://www.tesla.com/trips
Yeah thats adding 2hr to a 7.5 hr trip. Ill pass.
If they get to battery swap stations, that would be a game changer, but right now they are moving the opposite direction and making the battery part of the frame.
1_click_off
03-20-22, 11:06
Yeah thats adding 2hr to a 7.5 hr trip. Ill pass.
If they get to battery swap stations, that would be a game changer, but right now they are moving the opposite direction and making the battery part of the frame.
It is actually now a 14hr 17min trip by the time you charge AND play charging station pinball……
gunnerblue
03-20-22, 11:29
To the EV lovers in here.....can you take a 700 mile road trip and make it as fast as a gas vehicle? Speed-wise I'm sure you'd be fine, but what about that "refill"? Sorry, when I travel a long distance I do it to freaking get there, not "enjoy" the ride. An hour stop only adds to the misery. No thanks, not until that is fixed and I'm also not taking that trip in a Speck.
Personally, if vehicles are viewed as tools, electric makes a lot of sense to me as a daily driver/commuter or fleet vehicle. Electric batteries get better and cheaper over time, require less maintenance and are generally reliable. I still have a deposit down for a Cybertruck (fully refundable at any time) but I need to see more reviews of the batteries performance in freezing temps and in handling particulate matter like sand and dirt.
Until battery life is significantly improved (1,000+ miles to a charge) and the reliability is there, I would not be without a gas or diesel-powered vehicle as well.
In my mind it's directly analogous to cordless tools. Years ago cordless was sometimes convenient but the power and battery life sucked. They could be useful but you weren't gonna replace your corded tools.
Now they have improved and are indispensable. Gonna be the same with EVs one day. That day is not today for my needs, but it's coming. For some they work now, the rest of us will have to wait.
Early autos could not replace draft horses and wagons for hauling freight or long travels either, but you don't see teams around much these days. Just sayin.
I just kind of shake my head when I hear all the Long haul trucker comments about how they need to range pull their 15,000 lb load, etc.
Not that sometimes folks don't need to do that, but it's a very extreme outlier.
Pretty clear statistics that 90 to 95% of drivers never drive more than 50 mi in any given day unless they are taking an out-of-state trip.
So even 2011 Nissan leaf technology had more than enough range, and we lived that. It was very useful. Just worked. Would I have liked to have had double the range, sure. And that's already here.
What makes it me chuckle is all the comments from people driving tacomas, 4runners, etc that have about a 300 mi usable range.
And are so inefficient that my Cummins Ram can flat tow one and get better fuel mileage at highway speeds then they get driving themselves. And it's not like they have super performance or can carry heavy loads, they're not even really half tons.
So to me if you're driving a V6 compact pickup, jeep, etc you've already given up your man card. Even though I liked driving my FJ cruiser, it was not fast but it sure was thirsty. Even the V8 Toyota truck is pretty wimpy compared to full sized.
Our EV experience changed the way I think of cars, and we now have kind of a city/trip car, and then a heavy load vehicle for when I need it. Which has right at a 600 mile range. More when I need it.
The cost differential in terms of not just fuel mileage but maintenance on the bigger vehicles more than makes up for the additional cost of having a second vehicle insured.
In a two car family it's really easy, and that's what most people I know who are successfully using EVs do. The EV for rolling around town and then a nicer ICE vehicle for out-of-state trips and that the other driver drives.
When we had the leaf as a third vehicle we used the rule that whoever drove the most within its range that particular day took it. Every mile that we put on the leaf was money in our pocket and extended the life of our fairly expensive conventional vehicles.
More importantly, our ICE cars were both vehicles that we could not replace at a whim as they were pre-emissions/DEF diesels which would cost double to replace what we paid for them.
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-20-22, 13:54
Buddy looking at a Tesla showed me a “plan my trip” website Tesla has.
Example: New Orleans to Nashville
Stop and charge:
Mobile Al for 10min.
Crestview Fl 20min
Greenville AL 25min
Auburn Al 20min
Birmingham Al 60min
Then complete the trip to Nashville.
https://www.tesla.com/trips
They need to take that calculator down. He just convinced me that I don’t want to Tesla. I put in a trip from Denver to Chicago that I’ve driven myself, and it has goofy stuff like stopping for a recharge after 30 minutes of driving. Then it has two pairs of stops that are literally within like 30 miles of each other.
Actually if I can get a two door Jeep that was full electric I might do that. Something for around town and in the mountains. Some thing I wouldn’t take very far. Would be interesting to know as sunny as it is here in Colorado what kind of solar array you could bring and how long that would take to charge.
We only have two garage spots and we are becoming a 3 to 4 car family. I was thinking it would complexify things if we had to have the recharge station in the garage. But maybe outdoor charging is a feature not a downside. 1. If the car battery catches you won’t burn down your house, and B. If you made the connector for the charger be a locking mechanism, you’ve affectively made it so the car is tethered to the house. Who wants to cut through a high power voltage wire to steal a car? Of course my kid would try to drive off with it still attached.
I just kind of shake my head when I hear all the Long haul trucker comments about how they need to range pull their 15,000 lb load, etc.
Not that sometimes folks don't need to do that, but it's a very extreme outlier.
Pretty clear statistics that 90 to 95% of drivers never drive more than 50 mi in any given day unless they are taking an out-of-state trip.
So even 2011 Nissan leaf technology had more than enough range, and we lived that. It was very useful. Just worked. Would I have liked to have had double the range, sure. And that's already here.
What makes it me chuckle is all the comments from people driving tacomas, 4runners, etc that have about a 300 mi usable range.
And are so inefficient that my Cummins Ram can flat tow one and get better fuel mileage at highway speeds then they get driving themselves. And it's not like they have super performance or can carry heavy loads, they're not even really half tons.
So to me if you're driving a V6 compact pickup, jeep, etc you've already given up your man card. Even though I liked driving my FJ cruiser, it was not fast but it sure was thirsty. Even the V8 Toyota truck is pretty wimpy compared to full sized.
Our EV experience changed the way I think of cars, and we now have kind of a city/trip car, and then a heavy load vehicle for when I need it. Which has right at a 600 mile range. More when I need it.
The cost differential in terms of not just fuel mileage but maintenance on the bigger vehicles more than makes up for the additional cost of having a second vehicle insured.
In a two car family it's really easy, and that's what most people I know who are successfully using EVs do. The EV for rolling around town and then a nicer ICE vehicle for out-of-state trips and that the other driver drives. We have 3 vehicles: my F150, my wife's Jeep Wrangler, and a Nissan Kicks for work, so pretty much in line with your thinking in that regard.
When we had the leaf as a third vehicle we used the rule that whoever drove the most within its range that particular day took it. Every mile that we put on the leaf was money in our pocket and extended the life of our fairly expensive conventional vehicles.
More importantly, our ICE cars were both vehicles that we could not replace at a whim as they were pre-emissions/DEF diesels which would cost double to replace what we paid for them.
On a long trip I can pull into a gas station and be back on the road in maybe 10 minutes (including a quick run inside to piss). Sitting there for an hour or more isn't on the agenda. Not too mention sitting there while some other schlep is charging their vehicle THEN you get to go. Nah, it ain't there yet for my liking.
I commute M-F about 75 miles round-trip. So locally yeah, an EV would work. And maybe once or twice a year my wife and I drive on out-of-state trips. However, I still like the ability to be able to do that when I feel like it. Even if the extended mileage thing was rectified I'm not road-tripping in a little Euro bubble car (or a Leaf). An EV F150/Ram/Silverado/etc. is what I'd be interested in. We're still a long ways from that being a reality.
Then there's the infrastructure part of the equation.....gotta have as many charging stations as you do gas pumps. Waiting 5 or 10 minutes for someone to fill up and then move so you can gas up is a MUCH better option than waiting an hour for that other guy to charge his batteries.
I operate electric forklifts at work. On one particular brand, the manual recommends that the battery not be recharged unless it's below 66% charge. Does that apply in any degree to electric cars?
1_click_off
03-20-22, 16:11
Actually if I can get a two door Jeep that was full electric I might do that. Something for around town and in the mountains. Some thing I wouldn’t take very far. Would be interesting to know as sunny as it is here in Colorado what kind of solar array you could bring and how long that would take to charge.
They make a 4 door. I watched some off roaders with it on YouTube. I think it would be cool to off-road in silence, royal buzzkill if you run it out of battery in the woods without a generator to charge you back up.
https://www.jeep.com/wrangler/wrangler-4xe.html?sid=1037056&KWNM=electric+jeep+wrangler&KWID=43700056431121826&TR=1&channel=paidsearch&gclsrc=aw.ds&ds_rl=1273281&ds_rl=1267886&ds_rl=1272981&gclid=CjwKCAjwoduRBhA4EiwACL5RPxZuJdvQMF9lfxfyYXiki7fDdvnDrvZjAsh1da0j_6CNLIkFYXZT7hoCGm4QAvD_BwE
Adrenaline_6
03-20-22, 16:39
I just kind of shake my head when I hear all the Long haul trucker comments about how they need to range pull their 15,000 lb load, etc.
Not that sometimes folks don't need to do that, but it's a very extreme outlier.
Pretty clear statistics that 90 to 95% of drivers never drive more than 50 mi in any given day unless they are taking an out-of-state trip.
So even 2011 Nissan leaf technology had more than enough range, and we lived that. It was very useful. Just worked. Would I have liked to have had double the range, sure. And that's already here.
What makes it me chuckle is all the comments from people driving tacomas, 4runners, etc that have about a 300 mi usable range.
And are so inefficient that my Cummins Ram can flat tow one and get better fuel mileage at highway speeds then they get driving themselves. And it's not like they have super performance or can carry heavy loads, they're not even really half tons.
So to me if you're driving a V6 compact pickup, jeep, etc you've already given up your man card. Even though I liked driving my FJ cruiser, it was not fast but it sure was thirsty. Even the V8 Toyota truck is pretty wimpy compared to full sized.
Our EV experience changed the way I think of cars, and we now have kind of a city/trip car, and then a heavy load vehicle for when I need it. Which has right at a 600 mile range. More when I need it.
The cost differential in terms of not just fuel mileage but maintenance on the bigger vehicles more than makes up for the additional cost of having a second vehicle insured.
In a two car family it's really easy, and that's what most people I know who are successfully using EVs do. The EV for rolling around town and then a nicer ICE vehicle for out-of-state trips and that the other driver drives.
When we had the leaf as a third vehicle we used the rule that whoever drove the most within its range that particular day took it. Every mile that we put on the leaf was money in our pocket and extended the life of our fairly expensive conventional vehicles.
More importantly, our ICE cars were both vehicles that we could not replace at a whim as they were pre-emissions/DEF diesels which would cost double to replace what we paid for them.
I think the particular crowd with the 4runners, FJ's, Tacomas, Jeeps, etc that have a problem is the 4 wheeling and Overlanding community's. Some tow an off road trailer or camper. Some trips involve water crossings. To me, this will be the biggest problem for EV's to overcome. Water and mud will eventually play havoc to the connections and cooling. I would like to see long term real 4x4 useage on the new 4x4 EV's coming out like the Rivian and Hummer. If I had to bet, there are going to be unforseen major problems.
I do admit for the normal use person in the city or suburbs, an ev would do just fine. Most family households own 2 cars anyway.
I would totally swap my rock buggies 420hp LS for an equivalent "drop in" replacement EV system. Hypothetically, assuming I could pay for it selling the existing drive train.
And no oil pressure issues when it's on its side or lid. ;)
DC brushless motors in the hub with planetary gear drive is significantly simpler than conventional four-wheel drive axles. No center diff, drive shafts, u-joints to worry about, etc.
The same exact water / mud seal issues with seals exist with both types (ice or EV).
We are already starting to see experimental vehicles with this type of drive at the golf cart / robot level.
I've owned 4x4s since the very early 80s, three land cruiser wagons, a diesel trooper, a diesel jeep, Cummins Ram 4x4, and of course a Pinzgauer.
Do a lot of four wheeling locally and out of state. And lately a lot on my property.
Portal hubs on the Pinzgauer / unimog/Humvee makes so much difference in capability that the in-hub motors are intriguing to me. Especially if integrated with traction control.
Essentially pick up a foot additional ground clearance, really more than that on the pinz due to its tubular center frame approach.
But it's not here now, so short-term you won't see them. But we're already starting to see dirt bikes, and ATVs with electric. Myself and a friend who grew up in the pinz factory (rip) discussed how easy it would be to electrify a pinz due to its motor location and standard mounting plate to the transmission. But that would be a very inefficient way of doing things.
I'm not an ev bigot, if I'm biased in any direction is towards Diesel's. (Plus Pinzgauers & land cruisers) But they are all effectively dead in the US, going to be harder and harder even though def & cat stuff seems to have stabilized some.
As to the Toyota and CJ crowd, a rooftop tent and upgraded wheels and tires do not make an overlander. So they're both a good start. :-)
An FJ cruiser with locking rear axle and traction control was pretty capable, but it's still pretty limited on load and utility. The tacos and 4Runners go down from there. But getting off subject. :-)
Adrenaline_6
03-21-22, 08:00
DC brushless motors in the hub with planetary gear drive is significantly simpler than conventional four-wheel drive axles. No center diff, drive shafts, u-joints to worry about, etc.
The same exact water / mud seal issues with seals exist with both types (ice or EV).
We are already starting to see experimental vehicles with this type of drive at the golf cart / robot level.
I've owned 4x4s since the very early 80s, three land cruiser wagons, a diesel trooper, a diesel jeep, Cummins Ram 4x4, and of course a Pinzgauer.
Do a lot of four wheeling locally and out of state. And lately a lot on my property.
Portal hubs on the Pinzgauer / unimog/Humvee makes so much difference in capability that the in-hub motors are intriguing to me. Especially if integrated with traction control.
Essentially pick up a foot additional ground clearance, really more than that on the pinz due to its tubular center frame approach.
But it's not here now, so short-term you won't see them. But we're already starting to see dirt bikes, and ATVs with electric. Myself and a friend who grew up in the pinz factory (rip) discussed how easy it would be to electrify a pinz due to its motor location and standard mounting plate to the transmission. But that would be a very inefficient way of doing things.
I'm not an ev bigot, if I'm biased in any direction is towards Diesel's. (Plus Pinzgauers & land cruisers) But they are all effectively dead in the US, going to be harder and harder even though def & cat stuff seems to have stabilized some.
As to the Toyota and CJ crowd, a rooftop tent and upgraded wheels and tires do not make an overlander. So they're both a good start. :-)
An FJ cruiser with locking rear axle and traction control was pretty capable, but it's still pretty limited on load and utility. The tacos and 4Runners go down from there. But getting off subject. :-)
I admit it is definitely simpler. Just that a leaky seal on a ujoint or similar is not as much as an issue than electrucal connections, motors,etc.
I just think there will be problems with this first gen ev 4x4's which will be found out quickly by the more demanding users. Not that they won't be fixes and advancements made that will solve them...just that we are too early in the ball game tight now to spend that kind if money on developing, problematic tech. People will spend it though...good on them...someone's gotta be the guinea pig.
An FJ, Taco, 4runner, with minor mods get pretty capable quickly, not too mention LC's snd LX's.
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