What rifles to consider?

[TacticalSpeed]

Looking for 5.56 only.
Handled a SCAR 16s yesterday and really wasn't feeling it. No pun intended.

Range toy to start. Might replace my Stag as SHTF rifle if proven reliable

I am looking for something very accurate, reliable and ideally lighter than my Stag. I know the MR556 is not light. Accurate and reliable are the 2 I am most concerned with. With optic & light, my Stag weighs 8.4 lbs

[mRad]

Are you going to argue with the responders this time?


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[Inkslinger]

SR-15 E3 MOD 2

[utahjeepr]

Considering this is the AR general discussion I'm gonna stick with the basic Colt, LMT, BCM, or other quality duty grade AR.

:cool:

[titsonritz]

SR-15 E3 MOD 2

Sign me up.

[TacticalSpeed]

Range toy to start. Might replace my Stag as SHTF rifle if proven reliable

[markm]

Are you going to argue with the responders this time?

:laugh: I wasn't going to say anything..

[Johnny Rico]

The question is, what company makes the AR-15 version of Kimber 1911s?

[markm]

The question is, what company makes the AR-15 version of Kimber 1911s?

That would be LWRCi. Complete garbage with a decent looking finish. The difference is Kimber doesn't (as far as I know) astroturf the forums. No outright fraud and deception like LWRCi.

[Johnny Rico]

That would be LWRCi. Complete garbage with a decent looking finish. The difference is Kimber doesn't (as far as I know) astroturf the forums. No outright fraud and deception like LWRCi.

I hope you're not speaking from personal experience.

[pointblank4445]

That would be LWRCi. Complete garbage with a decent looking finish.

I don't agree with you on much but I can 100% get behind this

[tgizzard]

Range toy to start. Might replace my Stag as SHTF rifle if proven reliable

If the Stag is your go to ….

Maybe make the Stag your range toy and make this purchase your reliable go to. I’ve personally never gone wrong with BCM.


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[TacticalSpeed]

My short list so far LOL

Steyr AUG
Springfield Hellion
Desert Tech MDR/MDRX
JP Precision 15
Tavor X95
HK MR556
CZ Bren 2

[BangBang77]

Damn I miss Iraqgunz...

[pinzgauer]

My short list so far LOL

Steyr AUG
Springfield Hellion
Desert Tech MDR/MDRX
JP Precision 15
Tavor X95
HK MR556
CZ Bren 2Sing-songy voice: "one of these things is not like the other"

Okay, maybe two of them...

OP, it seems like you're chasing flash over not substance.

For the price of one of your exotics that you are considering you can get far better carbines than anything on your list.

I'd be looking at LMT and KAC offerings. If you can't afford that, then get a Colt OEM2, put the tube and stock of your choice on it. That'll leave you money for an upgraded trigger and possibly even an aimpoint Red Dot.

[cosmo223]

If you want a bull pup that's reliable and will give you a 16" barrel in a very small package, tough to beat the Tavor. However, they are pricey, ergonomics take a little getting used to, accuracy is meh, the stock trigger sucks and a Geissele replacement trigger adds more money.

Honestly, unless you just want something different get an AR. KAC, LMT, DD will all work. If you want to be a little bit different or plan to shoot suppressed, maybe look at a piston system. My choice would be a PWS, but I'm sure a LMT or a HK would also be a solid (although pretty pricey) choice. If you want very good accuracy at a somewhat affordable price, also worth looking at Larue.

[TacticalSpeed]

Honestly, if I am narrowing it down right now the list would look like this... (Not in order)

CZ Bren 2
HK MR556
DD AR-15
KAC AR-15
Steyr AUG

For some reason, I really want an AUG. I need to handle one. Hopefully, my local shop still has 1 the next time I go

[3 AE]

I think you would be well served with a Del-Ton or a used Olympic Arms. Or if you got the cash for a top tier 5.56, go with Spikes Tactical.

[MistWolf]

Get a Colt 6960

[cosmo223]

I think you would be well served with a Del-Ton or a used Olympic Arms. Or if you got the cash for a top tier 5.56, go with Spikes Tactical.

Used Olympic Arms? :suicide2: I used to own an Olympic Arms. First AR I ever bought, probably 20+ years ago. And it was a surprisingly accurate rifle ... when it wasn't jamming. Really one of the lowest quality AR's ever made. I suppose if you have a budget of $3-400 or under and want an AR you can used for plinking Coke cans twice a year a used Olympic Arms might be a good option. But if you're looking for a budget option why not a Smith & Wesson, or a PSA?

And if the OP is considering an HK, a KAC or a Steyr, why recommend any bottom tier AR?

Actually, just occurred to me 3AE hates Tacticalspeed, so he recommends two cheap ass rifles and one slightly better rifle that has two crossed penises for a logo. :)

[HKGuns]

https://www.alloutdoor.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/hipoint380carbine_D6A7450web.jpg

[TacticalSpeed]

https://www.alloutdoor.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/hipoint380carbine_D6A7450web.jpg

This must be a joke

[georgeib]

https://www.ar15forums.com/attachments/ar-15-pict-jpg.2132/

A setup like this should be your speed.

[Hammer_Man]

https://www.ar15forums.com/attachments/ar-15-pict-jpg.2132/

A setup like this should be your speed.

Whoever crafted this is a genius... :laugh:

[mRad]

The Ultimate Tactical Rifle
https://youtu.be/1d8nsGicdwI

The Ultimate Tactical Rifle Vol. 2: Extra Tactical
https://youtu.be/nJRTlT1u3XU


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[grizzman]

Thanks, mRad. That was awesome.

The OP’s next rifle has been identified.


…….end thread.

[pag23]

Damn...OP is getting toasted like a T80 near Kyiv...

[Jermedic]

If you want a bull pup that's reliable and will give you a 16" barrel in a very small package, tough to beat the Tavor. However, they are pricey, ergonomics take a little getting used to, accuracy is meh, the stock trigger sucks and a Geissele replacement trigger adds more money.

Honestly, unless you just want something different get an AR. KAC, LMT, DD will all work. If you want to be a little bit different or plan to shoot suppressed, maybe look at a piston system. My choice would be a PWS, but I'm sure a LMT or a HK would also be a solid (although pretty pricey) choice. If you want very good accuracy at a somewhat affordable price, also worth looking at Larue.

I had a Tavor for a while and traded it off. It was a great compact rifle and quick to reload with practice. The trigger was about 10lbs and it shot about 4moa with good ammo. It was completely reliable, but I would only trust it as a goto for inside the house distances due to the accuracy.

[Dan_B]

I had a Tavor for a while and traded it off. It was a great compact rifle and quick to reload with practice. The trigger was about 10lbs and it shot about 4moa with good ammo. It was completely reliable, but I would only trust it as a goto for inside the house distances due to the accuracy.

Tavor was designed for combat and is sufficiently accurate ‘outside the home’.

[diving dave]

I hear this a lot, but it’s not been my experience. With plain old 55 grn ball I have no issues hitting steel at 4-500 with my X95.

[grizzman]

My suggestion is that if you really want an AUG, then you should buy an AUG. If you won't then you'll wish you did. If you do and you don't like it, then you can sell it and still tell your grandkids....back in the day, I was cool and rocked an AUG.

[TacticalSpeed]

Handled a Steyr AUG today. Disappointed. Felt very cheap. The trigger reminded me of the trigger on my high tower armory bullpup kit for my 10/22. Cool gun, but I don't know that I want to spend $1,900 on it. Maybe just get a Kel-Tec RDB for a lot less to scratch that itch and also get a nice AR like Knights or HK MR556 or ??

[Coal Dragger]

Not that it matters but I am extremely happy with my Knights Armament Co. SR-15, it has pretty much put all my other M4/AR's in the gun safe.

[TacticalSpeed]

Not that it matters but I am extremely happy with my Knights Armament Co. SR-15, it has pretty much put all my other M4/AR's in the gun safe.

It does matter. I'm pretty much looking very hard at either the HK or something from knights so please feel free to elaborate.

Those that would buy the HK, what would you buy instead of the HK was unavailable?

[pag23]

Those that would buy the HK, what would you buy instead of the HK was unavailable?

HK and KAC have some proprietary parts so if something gets broke.....you might get screwed..

[Coal Dragger]

It does matter. I'm pretty much looking very hard at either the HK or something from knights so please feel free to elaborate.

For starters the overall package at the time I bought it was a good value in my estimation. The KAC comes equipped ready to run out of the box with really good iron sights, an excellent two stage trigger, a Gen 3 PMag, two QD socket sling swivels, and an additional section of MLok compatible Picatinny rail. All you need to add is ammo and you have a functional carbine with a functional sighting system. If you want to add an optic, light, and a sling that’s about all you need, plus more magazines if you don’t already have them. If you price out the included accessories like the sights, two stage trigger, QD sockets, PMag, and Picatinny rail you can look at that as stuff you don’t need to immediately buy on a lot of other carbines.

Then considering the sum of the parts you get:

An excellent cold hammer forged chrome lined barrel that is produced with a well thought out contour that puts the mass where it belongs unlike a Govt’ profile barrel. These have also proven to be extremely durable in testing, as well as being accurate. I can’t personally comment on high round count durability (thanks ammo shortages….) but I can confirm my one example is way more accurate with good ammo than a lightweight-ish barrel has a right to be. KAC is even nice enough to equip their excellent 3 prong flash hider which doesn’t ring, murders flash, and serves as a suppressor host. I changed it out, messed around with other options and recently put it back on because it had few if any disadvantages.

The gas system is more refined than most standard AR-15’s with virtually no way for gas to leak, and mine is properly tuned for 5.56 NATO ammunition. Shoots nice and soft with only a carbine weight buffer. However it does seem a bit sluggish with lightly loaded commercial .223 Rem blaster ammo, for example Hornady Steel Match 75gr BTHP ammo cycled it but just barely. I haven’t tried any Wolf steel case but suspect it might not run at all with that.

The E3 bolt and extractor are a significant improvement in function and strength over a standard AR-15 bolt. The lugs are stronger and rounded to eliminate fracture points, the bolt face is fully supported, the bolt tail is stronger due to a smaller diameter cam pin, and the extractor uses two springs and a revised pivot point for more reliable extraction.

Subjectively I love the rail on the SR-15 it’s “just right” in size and has built in QD cups, and is pretty solid but not bulky.

The lower receiver is fully ambidextrous if that matters. As mentioned earlier the included two stage trigger is very good. I normally put a Geissele in AR-15’s and the KAC trigger is just as good and I see no reason to change it. The included furniture is also pretty much what I would put on anyway, so bonus for me.

In summary I just like the features: it’s well made, accurate, soft shooting, reliable, and light.

There are lots of other nice options out there, and the KAC just happens to be what I chose.

[TacticalSpeed]

HK and KAC have some proprietary parts so if something gets broke.....you might get screwed..

Any idea which parts?

[Coal Dragger]

The SR-15 uses a proprietary barrel extension, bolt, extractor, firing pin, cam pin, gas tube, and gas manifold/block secured with a castle nut.

The KAC barrel extension will allow a standard AR-15 bolt assembly to lock, unlock, and head space. So if your SR-15 bolt or extractor were to go tits up for some reason you could run a standard AR-15 bolt assembly, cam pin, and firing pin until you get a new KAC part. The bolt carrier is standard so the temporary AR-15 bolt will go right in. I’ve never heard of a KAC E3 bolt failing though, at least where it didn’t involve the whole gun being destroyed in a kaboom.

The gas system parts are also extremely unlikely to fail, again this is an imagined issue and not worth losing sleep over.

[Jermedic]

Tavor was designed for combat and is sufficiently accurate ‘outside the home’.
Agreed, but I decided to just stick with the AR for commonality purpose. Every now and then I see a Tavor for sale and have to fight the urge to pick up another one.

[davidjinks]

Honestly, if I am narrowing it down right now the list would look like this... (Not in order)

CZ Bren 2
HK MR556
DD AR-15
KAC AR-15
Steyr AUG

For some reason, I really want an AUG. I need to handle one. Hopefully, my local shop still has 1 the next time I go

Of the list you posted in this response; I would go KAC or Daniel Defense.

[TacticalSpeed]

The SR-15 uses a proprietary barrel extension, bolt, extractor, firing pin, cam pin, gas tube, and gas manifold/block secured with a castle nut.

The KAC barrel extension will allow a standard AR-15 bolt assembly to lock, unlock, and head space. So if your SR-15 bolt or extractor were to go tits up for some reason you could run a standard AR-15 bolt assembly, cam pin, and firing pin until you get a new KAC part. The bolt carrier is standard so the temporary AR-15 bolt will go right in. I’ve never heard of a KAC E3 bolt failing though, at least where it didn’t involve the whole gun being destroyed in a kaboom.

The gas system parts are also extremely unlikely to fail, again this is an imagined issue and not worth losing sleep over.

Wow, I did not know all of that and I appreciate that information very much

Also, how accurate are ARs like Knight's? I am looking for something very accurate

I am looking for something very accurate, reliable and ideally lighter than my Stag. I know the MR556 is not light. Accurate and reliable are the 2 I am most concerned with. With optic & light, my Stag weighs 8.4 lbs

[Coal Dragger]

I haven’t put an optic on mine with any more than 4X magnification, but it holds 1” groups at 100 yards without issue using match ammo. It probably could do better with more magnification and a finer reticle.

[TacticalSpeed]

I haven’t put an optic on mine with any more than 4X magnification, but it holds 1” groups at 100 yards without issue using match ammo. It probably could do better with more magnification and a finer reticle.

What does it do with 55gr range ammo, though? That's what I have.

[czgunner]

What does it do with 55gr range ammo, though? That's what I have.I'm not sure any rifle will shoot amazing groups with inexpensive blasting ammo.


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[TacticalSpeed]

JP Ent anyone?

[Coal Dragger]

What does it do with 55gr range ammo, though? That's what I have.

Beats me. The only 55gr stuff I run I load myself, and I load it to near 100% listed load density with CFE223. My 55gr ball ammo has been pretty accurate all things considered out of all of my AR’s.

Even my Sierra Matchking loads are reloads and those do quite well. The 69gr and 77gr stuff has given me first round hits at 442 yards and 551 yards with a Nightforce NXS 1-4 on the KAC gun.

[TacticalSpeed]

I think I have it narrowed down to JP, Wilson Combat or maybe Geissele, but I think Geissele will lose due to 1:7 twist. I'm thinking go with 1:8

[Backfire]

BCM is ok... but the handguards are so small, barely clears the gas block, must be made for women or guys with small hands.
I would.like to hear/see more about Wilson Combat

[dmd08]

1:7 vs 1:8 twist is so far down the list of criteria that are important to me when selecting a barrel/rifle I don't even consider it to be honest. If a rifle checks (almost) all your boxes you really wouldn't go with it due to a 1:7 vs 1:8 barrel? In my opinion you're getting into the weeds.

[titsonritz]

BCM is ok... but the handguards are so small, barely clears the gas block, must be made for women or guys with small hands.
I would.like to hear/see more about Wilson Combat

Not gonna let that shit go, huh?


1:7 vs 1:8 twist is so far down the list of criteria that are important to me when selecting a barrel/rifle I don't even consider it to be honest. If a rifle checks (almost) all your boxes you really wouldn't go with it due to a 1:7 vs 1:8 barrel? In my opinion you're getting into the weeds.

Agreed.

[El Vaquero]

I love me some HK but when it come to an AR I would go DD, Colt, BCM in that order. Then Sionics and Sons of Liberty.

I wouldn’t bother with a range toy that may someday be home defense. Buy once cry once. Get a good base rifle that can be both from the start. Unless you want to start forming a collection.

[TacticalSpeed]

I love me some HK but when it come to an AR I would go DD, Colt, BCM in that order. Then Sionics and Sons of Liberty.

I wouldn’t bother with a range toy that may someday be home defense. Buy once cry once. Get a good base rifle that can be both from the start. Unless you want to start forming a collection.

I think you missed what I meant by that. What I meant was until I get enough rounds through it and it proves to have zero hiccups blah blah blah then it might become the SHTF rifle.

I have a Geissele SD rifle on the way now. Time to pick a scope

[Stickman]

Gentlemen,

This is the same guy who has ten threads going in just one of the EE sections as opposed to the three threads which are allowed.

The mods here don't have the time, and there isn't enough of them to slap each person who can't play by the rules, but in no way does that mean anyone needs to respond to threads where a troll is just going to insult people anyway.

I vote MarkM for mod nazi in the EE section to slap people as needed.

[Exiledviking]

And multiple threads regarding the same question. And the same BS on at least 2 other forums. It's spam-like. I miss the old days on this forum.

I second MarkM for mod in the EE.

[Coal Dragger]

I’ll third that motion if it matters.

[Coal Dragger]

I think you missed what I meant by that. What I meant was until I get enough rounds through it and it proves to have zero hiccups blah blah blah then it might become the SHTF rifle.

I have a Geissele SD rifle on the way now. Time to pick a scope

A Geissele is a fine choice, hopefully it serves you well.

[Backfire]

Not gonna let that shit go, huh?


Agreed.


Just having so.e fun and takin a poke, see how the community is...

[Dutch110]

Gentlemen,

This is the same guy who has ten threads going in just one of the EE sections as opposed to the three threads which are allowed.

The mods here don't have the time, and there isn't enough of them to slap each person who can't play by the rules, but in no way does that mean anyone needs to respond to threads where a troll is just going to insult people anyway.

I vote MarkM for mod nazi in the EE section to slap people as needed.

It's like he's using M4 as his own personal Google and they arguing with the search results. Dude is all over the place. Hard to take anything he is saying or asking seriously.

[3 AE]

Gentlemen,

This is the same guy who has ten threads going in just one of the EE sections as opposed to the three threads which are allowed.

The mods here don't have the time, and there isn't enough of them to slap each person who can't play by the rules, but in no way does that mean anyone needs to respond to threads where a troll is just going to insult people anyway.

I vote MarkM for mod nazi in the EE section to slap people as needed.

God help anyone who wants to buy or sell a LWRC carbine on EE!

[Dutch110]

God help anyone who wants to buy or sell a LWRC carbine on EE!

People keep bringing that up but I must have missed it. What happened? Lots of heat around that one.

[Entryteam]

Sing-songy voice: "one of these things is not like the other"

Okay, maybe two of them...

OP, it seems like you're chasing flash over not substance.

For the price of one of your exotics that you are considering you can get far better carbines than anything on your list.

I'd be looking at LMT and KAC offerings. If you can't afford that, then get a Colt OEM2, put the tube and stock of your choice on it. That'll leave you money for an upgraded trigger and possibly even an aimpoint Red Dot.

Gospel.

[pag23]

Gentlemen,

This is the same guy who has ten threads going in just one of the EE sections as opposed to the three threads which are allowed.

The mods here don't have the time, and there isn't enough of them to slap each person who can't play by the rules, but in no way does that mean anyone needs to respond to threads where a troll is just going to insult people anyway.

I vote MarkM for mod nazi in the EE section to slap people as needed.

Same question posted on this forum

https://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=385796

[Inkslinger]

Same question posted on this forum

https://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=385796

Some people just love to hear themselves type.

[3 AE]

People keep bringing that up but I must have missed it. What happened? Lots of heat around that one.

It's kind of like an inside joke on this forum that goes back to around 2010, if not before. I just started looking for my first AR and had narrowed down my choices to a Colt 6920, BCM M4, LMT Defender, etc. when I came across this thread. I hadn't heard of LWRC, but after seeing "markm's" post, the light bulb in my head shown brightly and all I remembered was the "Soup Nazi" on "Seinfeld" saying, "NO LWRC for you!". Bought the 6920 and have been happy ever since. I owe "markm" a debt of gratitude for his enlightenment.

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?70201-LWRC-Pros-and-Cons/page2&p=860536#post860536

There was a moratorium awhile back where members inquired about buying a LWRC carbine as their GTG carbine for serious duty work and no response came from "markm". Many of us were worried and waited with baited breath for his expected tirade, but alas, all was quiet on the western front. That did not last long. Somebody made a post of his LWRC was the best AR in the history of AR's and "markm" went into his full bore, linear, ninja, nuke the *uck out of LWRC oral dissertation. We were so happy that "markm" was his old self. Personally, I was brought to tears that he was alive and well. Hope this background info helps and that you would be well cautioned never to add LWRC to the title of any of your threads in the future! :nono:

[gunnerblue]

It's kind of like an inside joke on this forum that goes back to around 2010, if not before. I just started looking for my first AR and had narrowed down my choices to a Colt 6920, BCM M4, LMT Defender, etc. when I came across this thread. I hadn't heard of LWRC, but after seeing "markm's" post, the light bulb in my head shown brightly and all I remembered was the "Soup Nazi" on "Friends" saying, "NO LWRC for you!". Bought the 6920 and have been happy ever since. I owe "markm" a debt of gratitude for his enlightenment.

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?70201-LWRC-Pros-and-Cons/page2&p=860536#post860536

There was a moratorium awhile back where members inquired about buying a LWRC carbine as their GTG carbine for serious duty work and no response came from "markm". Many of us were worried and waited with baited breath for his expected tirade, but alas, all was quiet on the western front. That did not last long. Somebody made a post of his LWRC was the best AR in the history of AR's and "markm" went into his full bore, linear, ninja, nuke the *uck out of LWRC oral dissertation. We were so happy that "markm" was his old self. Personally, I was brought to tears that he was alive and well. Hope this background info helps and that you would be well cautioned never to add LWRC to the title of any of your threads in the future! :nono:

The Soup Nazi was from Seinfeld, sir. How dare you

[Dutch110]

Same question posted on this forum

https://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=385796

I thought I recognized that username.