What's the difference between 10mm Federal 180gr HP & 10mm Federal 180gr. Hydra Shok

[zippygaloo]

Can someone please explain the difference (and benefits) between these two 10mm rounds (other than the nickel plated case and bullet post)?

They seem to be the same outside of the nickel casing and bullet post on the Hydra-Shok. The Hydra-Shoks are about .50 cents more per round. Why? Is there a real benefit of the Hydra-Shok?

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[ToddG]

One uses a very out-dated technology for JHP construction.

The other one is even older.

[Spooky130]

One uses a very out-dated technology for JHP construction.

The other one is even older.

Todd,

In your opinion who is making the best ammo, today, for the 10mm?

Spooky

[zippygaloo]

One uses a very out-dated technology for JHP construction.

The other one is even older.

Which one in the photo is out-dated? How is it out-dated?

[TOrrock]

Which one in the photo is out-dated? How is it out-dated?


Neither round uses a bonded bullet, the jacket and core will almost certainly seperate in the target, possibly preventing proper penetration, especially if you have to go through something (heavy clothing, wood, car door, auto glass) before the target.

The standard hollowpoint is design circa 1983, the HydraShok was the new kid on the block around '89/'90.

A well designed bonded bullet like a Speer Gold dot it much preferred for self defense.

[ToddG]

In your opinion who is making the best ammo, today, for the 10mm?

Are you looking for full-power Norma-class ammo or .40 S&W-equivalent stuff like the Hydra-Shok you listed?

The full-power 10mm round that seemed to have the best reputation during the brief period when 10mm was popular seemed to be the 175gr Silvertip, actually.

You might find someone loading Gold Dots for 10mm, but odds are the bullets are intended to operate at .40 velocities ... they may not actually perform as well when pushed a couple hundred feet per second faster.

Personally, I'll only carry ammo from the Big Three: ATK (Federal/Speer), Remington, and Winchester. Of those, Federal still makes the Hydra-Shok for 10mm (180gr @ 1,030fps), and Winchester still makes the Silvertip (175gr @ 1,290fps). For a while, Federal did make a bonded 180gr "Tactical" (rated at 1,050fps).


Which one in the photo is out-dated? How is it out-dated?

Basically, both.

The standard JHP is an early generation design that basically did little more than scoop a hole out of the bullet nose. The Hydra-Shok, in turn, was a very early attempt at a more elegant engineering solution. Both have now been surpassed by new generations of bullets that expand and penetrate more reliably.

[TOrrock]

These guys have a good rep, and I believe they use Gold Dots in their loadings.


http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_25&products_id=122

[zippygaloo]

... Both have now been surpassed by new generations of bullets that expand and penetrate more reliably.

Could you be more specific on who makes these bullets? Is the Winchester "Silvertip" 175gr bullet considered "new generation"?

[TOrrock]

Could you be more specific on who makes these bullets? Is the Winchester "Silvertip" 175gr bullet considered "new generation"?


The Silvertip might be the best load out there from the "Big 3", but it's still 25 year old bullet technology.

[ToddG]

Could you be more specific on who makes these bullets? Is the Winchester "Silvertip" 175gr bullet considered "new generation"?

The Silvertip, as Templar said, is another very old design.

If you check out the Terminal Ballistics section of the forum, you'll find quite a bit of information from Doctor Roberts (DocGKR) about ammo selection. He doesn't cover 10mm in any of those documents to the best of my recollection, but the general information will certainly help you start to assess what you want in any caliber.

[zippygaloo]

Is it best to stick with the Big 3? Would it be better to reload myself?

[ToddG]

There are people who reload their carry ammo and feel very strongly about it.

Personally, though, I've never met a reloader who has access to the kinds of QC equipment that the Big Three have and use for their premium JHP lines.

[Spooky130]

These guys have a good rep, and I believe they use Gold Dots in their loadings.


http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_25&products_id=122

I wonder if these bullets they use are any different than the ones designed for .40SW velocities? I think that Buffalo Bore also loads some pretty hot 10mm ammo. Too bad there is no real interest in the 10mm anymore by the big ammo companies... Does anyone know if the FBI still uses their HK MP5/10s and what ammo they might use?

Spooky

[ToddG]

I wonder if these bullets they use are any different than the ones designed for .40SW velocities?

No.
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[sjc3081]

The Win 175 Silver Tip does only 1150 fps from my Glock 20. DoubleTap 165GD do 1350.

Below info from Double tap

All of these tests were done using 10% ballistic gelatin provided by Vyse gelatin using all FBI protocols and 4 layers of denim and two layers of light cotton T-shirt in front of the gelatin.

DoubleTap 9mm+P
115gr. Gold Dot JHP @ 1415fps - 12.00" / .72"
124gr. Gold Dot JHP @ 1310fps - 13.25" / .72"
147gr. Gold Dot JHP @ 1125fps - 14.00" / .68"


DoubleTap .40 S&W Penetration / expansion
165gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1200fps - 14.0" / .70"
180gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1100fps - 14.75" / .68"

DoubleTap .357 Sig
125gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1450fps - 14.5" / .66"

DoubleTap .357 Magnum
125gr. Gold Dot JHP @ 1600fps - 12.75" / .69"
158gr. Gold Dot JHP @ 1400fps - 19.0" .56"

DoubleTap 10mm
135gr JHP @ 1600fps - 11.0" / .70" frag nasty
155gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1475fps - 13.5" / .88"
165gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1400fps - 14.25" / 1.02"
165gr Golden Saber JHP @ 1425fps - 14.75" / .82"
180gr Golden Saber JHP @ 1330fps - 16.0" / .85"
180gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1300fps - 15.25" / .96"
200gr XTP @ 1250fps - 19.5" / .72"
230gr Equalizer @ 1040fps - 11.0" and 17.0" / .62" and .40"

DoubleTap .45ACP
185gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1225fps - 12.75" / .82"
200gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1125fps - 14.25" / .88"
230gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1010fps - 15.25" / .95"

DoubleTap 9X25
115gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1800fps - 10.0" / .64" frag nasty
125gr Gold DOt JHP @ 1725fps - 15.0" / .74"
147gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1550fps - 17.5" / .68"

For those who are asking, here it is!
-Mike

[zippygaloo]

1. Is "Frag Nasty" good or bad?

2. How do you get 1.02 on the 165gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1400fps - 14.25" / 1.02"?

3. It looks like the 180gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1300fps - 15.25" / .96" is the best performer, no?