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What are your thoughts on CMMG barrels? I am considering one for a new build I have in mind.
What are your thoughts on CMMG barrels? I am considering one for a new build I have in mind.
I think they are excellent, but would put would put them behind BCM's.
C4
I think they are excellent, but would put would put them behind BCM's.
C4
Why is that?
Why is that?
I am pretty sure that they don't use the same grade of steel and do not HPT their barrels.
C4
They are supposed to be 4150 arent they?
They are supposed to be 4150 arent they?
Not all 4150 is the same. ;)
Here are some questions you should always ask a barrel maker:
1. What grade of steel is it (4140, 4150, etc)?
2. If it is 4150, does it comply with the MIL-B-11595E spec?
3. Do they HPT their barrels?
4. Do they MP test their barrels AFTER they HPT them?
5. Do they MP test EVERY barrel (not batches)?
6. Do they allow failures (meaning what is their exit criteria)?
7. Do they use M4 stamped barrel extensions (if your looking for that option)?
7. Do they park. under the FSB?
8. Is their FSB, F marked?
These are just some of the questions off the top of my head that I would use to compare one barrel to another.
C4
Based merely off watching Giff's group buy go down I would not touch a CMMG barrel. Right or wrong, I think they left Giff hanging out to dry for way too long.
K.L. Davis
06-19-06, 07:55
Not all 4150 is the same. ;)
Here are some questions you should always ask a barrel maker:
1. What grade of steel is it (4140, 4150, etc)?
2. If it is 4150, does it comply with the MIL-B-11595E spec?
3. Do they HPT their barrels?
4. Do they MP test their barrels AFTER they HPT them?
5. Do they MP test EVERY barrel (not batches)?
6. Do they allow failures (meaning what is their exit criteria)?
7. Do they use M4 stamped barrel extensions (if your looking for that option)?
7. Do they phosphate under the FSB?
8. Is their FSB, F marked?
These are just some of the questions off the top of my head that I would use to compare one barrel to another.
C4
According to their website, they do most of the above... but, given the lack of quality I have seen with their recent barrels -- or at least poor quality control -- I wouldn't touch one. There are much better choices for a new barrel.
I have a CMMG Midlength upper that I bought before BCM released theirs. It is my most accurate barrel. I compare this to two RRA and a Bushmaster. So thats not a huge sample but what I have. I got on ARF after the whole Gif thing so I don't know anything about that. The guys at CMMG were great dealing with me on the phone. I am a casual shooter and am not in the service anymore, however I still like to buy the best quality equipment I can afford. I am Very happy with my barrel. It works great for me.I'll probably end up with a BCM barrel someday but would have no hesitation about buying another CMMG either.
I have a 14.5" CMMG upper that has about 8500 rounds through it now and it has been 100% reliable and accurate.
Robb Jensen
06-23-06, 07:26
My 11.5" SBR has a CMMG barrel and runs 100%, I did break a RRA bolt at about 3600 rounds on this gun. That bolt had 2000 rounds when it was used in a different AR. It headspaced fine in the CMMG barrel when I built it so I used it. It broke a lug and still ran but I immediately replaced it with a new CMT bolt. I ran this rifle at the Blackwater Carbine Operators course last month and it ran great. I could even hit the steel at 300yds. I learned a bunch at that course and like GIFFMAN went to fixed sights on this gun. I prefer seeing the sights in my peripheral vision even if I'm looking over them using the Eotechs reticle.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/3bffbd7c.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/46ce7437.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/184e060d.jpg
themadhatter
06-23-06, 07:41
:eek:
I tried one of the SOCOM profile barrels because I read alot of threads stating that they were the "Uber" thing to get.
After it kept consistantly popping primers out ....like... 15 or 20 out of 500 rounds fired from 4 different lots of xm-193 and a trip back to cmmg, I finally had to get my money back as it was just usless to me.
Just my .02 worth... but it was parked under the FSB, taperpins, Fmarked, M4 marked and all the other uber stuff... it just plain sucked when it came down to gun and run.
Jeff and John were very helpfull and didnt hesitate to help me. They even refunded my shipping.
The MOS barrel I replaced it with has yet to pop any primers. :)
TigerStripe
06-25-06, 23:07
I tried one of the SOCOM profile barrels because I read alot of threads stating that they were the "Uber" thing to get.
I've been thinking of putting a SOCM profile barrel on my DI gun. :confused:
TS
I tried one of the SOCOM profile barrels because I read alot of threads stating that they were the "Uber" thing to get.
After it kept consistantly popping primers out ....like... 15 or 20 out of 500 rounds fired from 4 different lots of xm-193 and a trip back to cmmg, I finally had to get my money back as it was just usless to me.
Just my .02 worth... but it was parked under the FSB, taperpins, Fmarked, M4 marked and all the other uber stuff... it just plain sucked when it came down to gun and run.
Jeff and John were very helpfull and didnt hesitate to help me. They even refunded my shipping.
The MOS barrel I replaced it with has yet to pop any primers. :)
Popping primers sounds like a headspace problem, especially if changing barrels solved the problem. Did you check the headspace on your CMMG barrel/bolt combo?
Based merely off watching Giff's group buy go down I would not touch a CMMG barrel. Right or wrong, I think they left Giff hanging out to dry for way too long.
yup....
I wish that Paul made the BCM uppers in the SOCOM style. I would like to have a 14.5 upper with out paying high dollar for the COLT name/stamp on it. When will we will be seeing some BCM SOCOM Uppers?
Popping primers sounds like a headspace problem, especially if changing barrels solved the problem. Did you check the headspace on your CMMG barrel/bolt combo?
Nope... just kept shooting it and scratching my head on why it didnt run! :p
I checked it and cmmg checked it and checked everything else inbetween! Of course when they shot it, they claimed it ran fine... and it would run fine slow fire... like 1 shot every 4 - 10 seconds, but when you started to shoot rapid fire ( within 15 rounds of the first mag) it would pop primers like it was designed to do it.
Im not here to bash..... but the cases all had really high pressure signs... but cmmg said it was fine... I just got my money back.
THellURider
07-03-06, 18:40
Based merely off watching Giff's group buy go down I would not touch a CMMG barrel. Right or wrong, I think they left Giff hanging out to dry for way too long.
I was stuck with 2 of those barrals. Giffmann made it right with me and earned my business for a long time to come. But CMMG pretty much screwed him. I swore never to do business with CMMG again... but I'm being very tempted by their 14.5" middie barrel, which I haven't seen ANYWHERE else, short of cutting down a 16" which I don't really wanna do.
FWIW, I believe DPMS makes the CMMG barrels.
I was stuck with 2 of those barrals. Giffmann made it right with me and earned my business for a long time to come. But CMMG pretty much screwed him. I swore never to do business with CMMG again... but I'm being very tempted by their 14.5" middie barrel, which I haven't seen ANYWHERE else, short of cutting down a 16" which I don't really wanna do.
FWIW, I believe DPMS makes the CMMG barrels.
They do have some unique configurations and I think that is the market segment they are trying to cover. For instance I really like the idea of a 14.7" pencil barrel with M4 extensions and they are the only ones making them. Their 14.5" middies and socom weight barrels are a nice offering as well.
I was stuck with 2 of those barrals. Giffmann made it right with me and earned my business for a long time to come. But CMMG pretty much screwed him. I swore never to do business with CMMG again... but I'm being very tempted by their 14.5" middie barrel, which I haven't seen ANYWHERE else, short of cutting down a 16" which I don't really wanna do.
FWIW, I believe DPMS makes the CMMG barrels.
Thanks for the kind words.
Also, it is my understanding, having spoken with both John and Jeff, that DPMS does NOT manufacture CMMG barrels. They source the blanks from a large barrel manufacturer then work with a machinist for the contouring and such. They have at least two sources for parkerizing and outsource the chrome lining as well.
My personal GIFFMANN barrel is fantastic. Shoots very accurately and has been reliable from day one on Semi and Full Auto lowers. I know others have had similar "luck" as well. It is my belief that some of the barrels ended up with tight chambers due to a reamer not being replaced when it should.
Based merely off watching Giff's group buy go down I would not touch a CMMG barrel. Right or wrong, I think they left Giff hanging out to dry for way too long.
Ha yep...I agree on that one.
I only herd good things about them. Just my 2 cents worth.
From,
Joe....
Based merely off watching Giff's group buy go down I would not touch a CMMG barrel. Right or wrong, I think they left Giff hanging out to dry for way too long.
Agreed. Not only Giff, but his customers as well. And I've just read too many posts about function problems with them which seem to indicate chamber issues.
I wish that Paul made the BCM uppers in the SOCOM style. I would like to have a 14.5 upper with out paying high dollar for the COLT name/stamp on it. When will we will be seeing some BCM SOCOM Uppers?
How about just a nice midweight like the Giff profile? I don't understand the fascination with the M203 cut barrels, unless folks are actually running M203's. Real lightweight profile midlength barrels (16" & 14.7" please) would be awesome as well.
Agreed. Not only Giff, but his customers as well. And I've just read too many posts about function problems with them which seem to indicate chamber issues.
How about just a nice midweight like the Giff profile? I don't understand the fascination with the M203 cut barrels, unless folks are actually running M203's. Real lightweight profile midlength barrels (16" & 14.7" please) would be awesome as well.
BCM DOES make a 16" barrel in Govt. profile.
C4
Was in on the Gif buy that he worked hard at putting together only to have the
manufacturer drop the ball and not pick it up again until things got dicey for them
in the public relations area...
To sell it, I had to be honest, and like a few, took a big bite...out of the ole wallet.
I have stuck with BCMs ever since.. and glad I did...best value going
Randall Rausch cut down a BCM middie to lt wt profile and 14.7 "
my wife couldn't be happier with it....
I think BCM is more into quality control..making it right the first time
rather than having to make a bad one right with good customer service..
after the sale...
Cant comment on CMMG current line...they sound adequate...and their
customer service sounds much better than it was....
imo
TigerStripe
08-05-06, 20:24
Randall Rausch just put a CMMG 14.5 SOCOM barrel on my upper. No problems with primers or bulging cases. I'm still not sure how accurate it is. I wasn't part of the group buy nor know anything about it, but it sounds like a good many people got screwed.
TS
Well this is a bit ****ed.
I recently bought a 14.5" from them and sent them a YHM QD mount for permanent installation. I haven't had a chance to shoot it yet, but now you all have me worried again (Deja vu, I just went through this same situation with a thread about shipping times, and then found out I was stuck in their back order loop).
I hope this thread isn't prophesizing the troubles I'll have with this barrel. I bought it solely based on the butt-load of good reviews they get on their stuff at the other place.
TigerStripe
08-08-06, 01:06
Well this is a bit ****ed.
I recently bought a 14.5" from them and sent them a YHM QD mount for permanent installation. I haven't had a chance to shoot it yet, but now you all have me worried again (Deja vu, I just went through this same situation with a thread about shipping times, and then found out I was stuck in their back order loop).
I hope this thread isn't prophesizing the troubles I'll have with this barrel. I bought it solely based on the butt-load of good reviews they get on their stuff at the other place.
FWIW, my barrel has done well. No popping primers, no bulging cases, no problems whatsoever. Well, one "problem" my 14.5" SOCOM barrel doesn't like the ammo the original DPMS barrel loved, and bought a bunch of... It's still good plinking or training ammo. Good luck!
TS
hard_cover
08-08-06, 13:42
What are Giffman's feelings on CMMG?
I think they hurt him pretty bad when they screwed up the quality of the barrels on his midlength group buy.
I had two on order from Giff and he refunded my money when it was announced that they all had the FSB too far forward to work with standard handguards. One dealer (ADCO ?) ended up dumping his remaining barrels for about $100 each with no warranty.
I'm asking a couple of questions here, not making an accusation, so please try to respond to the technical question I have.
I've noticed that 2 recent threads on the various boards about mysterious baffle strikes in silencers involved CMMG barrels, in both cases, the ammo was blamed. Is there something about a barrel that could make a bullet come apart or be so unstable that it would strike a baffle? Screwed up crown? Tight bore? Excessive pressures (due to headspace problems maybe) damaging to the bullet? or?
Also, I've read that CMMG won't warranty their barrels for use with Wolf ammo... What is it about their barrels that steel cased ammo can damage?
eklikewhoa
08-09-06, 17:09
i read that cmmg wont warranty the use of wolf ammo.
I have one of their new lightweight profile 1/7 14.5inchers on order so I'm hoping for the best.
Even though it's a little pricy it sure is nice to a have a choice besides the rare (and outrageously priced) Colt (if you can find one) when it comes to a true lightweight profile in 14.5 inch.
Hint. Hint BCM;)
According to BCM's site, their barrels are out of stock. I'm helping a Pentagon Police buddy of mine look for a 14.5 for his rifle. CMMG is the only one that I can find so far that has em...
I have one of their new lightweight profile 1/7 14.5inchers on order so I'm hoping for the best.
Even though it's a little pricy it sure is nice to a have a choice besides the rare (and outrageously priced) Colt (if you can find one) when it comes to a true lightweight profile in 14.5 inch.
Hint. Hint BCM;)
5 choices (sure there are many more choices)
1. Get the CMMG now and have something to shoot...order the BC and when it comes ins ell the CMMG
2. Wait till the BCM is available and get that ...it is worth the wait
3. Talk to Denny@ GTS...he had some 16" BCM gov't profiled stripped middies...get it profiled and cut to any length you like...
4. Get one of Denny's Mike Rock, 16" Med Contoured "Recons"...chrome lined bore and chamber...probably the most accurate chrome lined barrel out there..
Denny would be happy to cut er down to any length you want...
5. Sabre Defense also makes a 16" Cr Lined Middie.....you could get cut down to
14.5
5 choices (sure there are many more choices)
1. Get the CMMG now and have something to shoot...order the BC and when it comes ins ell the CMMG
2. Wait till the BCM is available and get that ...it is worth the wait
3. Talk to Denny@ GTS...he had some 16" BCM gov't profiled stripped middies...get it profiled and cut to any length you like...
4. Get one of Denny's Mike Rock, 16" Med Contoured "Recons"...chrome lined bore and chamber...probably the most accurate chrome lined barrel out there..
Denny would be happy to cut er down to any length you want...
5. Sabre Defense also makes a 16" Cr Lined Middie.....you could get cut down to
14.5
How so?
Every choice you mentioned besides #1 would require additional work (cutting, threading, profiling, extra shipping costs) to meet the criteria of true .625 14.5 barrel.
The 4 CMMG barrels that I have used have been very good. I put together a 14.5 socom, 2 16in socoms and 1 16in medium contour and all 4 were spot on and very accurate. CMMG was very good to deal with in my experience.
:) Billy
I thought I'd bump this, and ask about their complete uppers and lowers as well.
It does appear from their website that they are doing everything right, yet somehow they seem to always be the redheaded stepchild. Is there a reason for this? Is this issue with the giffman barrels the reason?
I'm very tempted to get an upper at least through CMMG. I like the fact that I can just order it with all the parts I want right from the get-go and don't have to be doing alot of home gunsmithing as soon as I get the rifle.
I thought I'd bump this, and ask about their complete uppers and lowers as well.
It does appear from their website that they are doing everything right, yet somehow they seem to always be the redheaded stepchild. Is there a reason for this? Is this issue with the giffman barrels the reason?
I'm very tempted to get an upper at least through CMMG. I like the fact that I can just order it with all the parts I want right from the get-go and don't have to be doing alot of home gunsmithing as soon as I get the rifle.
I think they are headed in the right direction, but do seem to have issues (from time to time with their barrels). I have seen two bad barrels and I know that Steve @ ADCO has seen more than that. I also believe that they are closely linked to DPMS.
I would like to say that I like what Jeff at CMMG is trying to do and consider him a good guy. I think they are experiencing growing pains which always hurts QC.
Read the last post in this thread: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=58429#post58429
C4
I thought I'd bump this, and ask about their complete uppers and lowers as well.
It does appear from their website that they are doing everything right, yet somehow they seem to always be the redheaded stepchild. Is there a reason for this? Is this issue with the giffman barrels the reason?
I'm very tempted to get an upper at least through CMMG. I like the fact that I can just order it with all the parts I want right from the get-go and don't have to be doing alot of home gunsmithing as soon as I get the rifle.
I have a CMMG mid-length upper. I have been very happy with it so far. I have about 2500 rds through it. Only thing I that I found negative about it was the carrier was not staked properly.
Here what mine looked like ( This is not my photo but posted by edhresko at https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=1495&highlight=staking.) :
http://members.cox.net/vhresko/stake.jpg
My 10.3 medcon is the best upper I've ever owned or shot with. Simply outstanding fit, finish & function. I'll prolly never buy another complete upper or rifle other than CMMG again. For a 10.3" it's very accurate & reliable after 1,000+ rounds in less than a week. And...it's not only Wolf that will void your warranty with them, it's any foreign make or any remanufacture/reload ammo, as is the case with many companies who lifetime warranty their products, that will void the warranty.
FWIW, I have a CMMG lightweight M4 barrel on a "frankengun" I built a couple of years ago as a beater. Got around 5000 rds through it right now with no problems. Some M855, some Mk262, some Q3131, some Wolf, but mostly Fed AE 55gr .223. It's actually been the most reliable AR I've ever owned.
Also, MOST barrel/upper/rifle makers will not warrant their barrels with Wolf.
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