View Full Version : WOA SPR or Wilson Combat Super Sniper barrel
Which of these 2 would you go to? 223 wylde chambering. I know Wilson is known for their 1911 pistols but i dont hear much about their rifles. WOA, well it is WOA.
What is your experience level? I know I could shouldn’t as well as either barrel.
Several members have posted good things about Wilson Combat barrels, but as you said - WOA is WOA. If I wanted to have the better barrel of the two just to have the better barrel, I’d get WOA.
Been shooting long range(950yds) for 20 years or more. The problem I have seen in the last couple of years is the barrels from several companies have turned to crap. I live real close to RRA, LMT, Les Bear, Armalite, Springfield Armory. I know lots of the workers at almost all of the places. And have heard the quality has been going down with these shortages happening. I dont want to buy anymore reject barrels.
The time and $ spent trying to get these to shoot outweighs the cost of the barrel sometimes.
One More Time
03-26-22, 08:46
I went with the WC 18" 223 wylde fluted barrel on the recommendation of someone who uses them enough to shoot out them out.
It has been back ordered and just came back in stock yesterday, now just waiting the upper to come back in and they'll ship out.
Now to find some decent ammo, which is the real trick these days.
I have a bunch of 69 gn but want to get some decent 77 to try out.
If it ain't one thing out of stock it's another these days.
I have a 16” Wilson Combat 1:7 barrel in either 223 Wylde or 5.56 (I can’t remember, and its covered by the hand guard). It shoots sub moa at 100 and 200 yards with several factory loads ranging from 40gr Black Hills, to 55gr Hornady Varmint Express, to 62gr Barnes TSX to Black Hills 77gr MK262.
I also have a 16” Wilson Combat barrel in 300blk. I can’t remember specific group sizes, but do remember that I was quite happy with it.
Both of these are on home built guns not their factory built ones.
I went with the WC 18" 223 wylde fluted barrel on the recommendation of someone who uses them enough to shoot out them out.
It has been back ordered and just came back in stock yesterday, now just waiting the upper to come back in and they'll ship out.
Now to find some decent ammo, which is the real trick these days.
I have a bunch of 69 gn but want to get some decent 77 to try out.
If it ain't one thing out of stock it's another these days.
Here are a few leads on 77gr ammo. Barnes, Berger, Hornady, Nosler, IMI.
https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/category/categoryId/103
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2090124928?pid=546028
Of those two, I would lean toward White Oaks but Wilson doesn’t put out crap and stands behind their stuff.
I would also look at Compass lake. They have Bartlein, Douglas and Krieger.
Of those two, I would lean toward White Oaks but Wilson doesn’t put out crap and stands behind their stuff.
I would also look at Compass lake. They have Bartlein, Douglas and Krieger.Both Compass Lake and White Oak have long, notable history of performance at Camp Perry and with the military.
Wilson got his name hot-rodding 1911s, Berettas, and now SIGs. A long record with high-end pistols, but I'm not sure what he might claim for long guns.
ViniVidivici
03-26-22, 11:50
I would go WOA based on what I've read here and other sources.
If these are the only options, then I'd choose WOA without reservation.
I'd personally look really hard at a Compass Lake SPR/MK12 Krieger. or Douglas.
Of the two WC is probably the only one you stand a chance of finding in stock at this time.
Not necessarily.
Brownells has the WOA 18” mid-length 1/7 twist SPR barrels in stock right now. And White Oak has their 20” rifle-length 1/7 twist SPR barrels showing in stock now also.
I run WOA barrels for competition. They shoot 3/4 moa or better, match ammo obviously. I would recommend WOA all day.
A lot of guys I shoot with run WOA barrels with comparable performance. Other barrels in my group are Krieger and Bartlein. One guy is trying a Proof Research barrel this year. I can't comment on WC.
I think I paid around $300 shipped (on sale) for my last WOA barrel, which included gas block, tube, and a matched bolt. I had to wait a few months to get it though. The price performance ratio is incredible in my mind.
I have a WOA that we could never get sub MOA. But it's a ADCO Custom Cruiser or some such. Those booger eaters at ADCO pinned a sight base and a low pro (shaved FSB). Looks like some kids in high school shop did the work which probably Effed up the harmonics 10 times over.
I would never buy another Wylde Chamber. Sucks for hot ammo. I'd MUCH rather roll the dice on a good Chrome Lined barrel. I've never shot a SS barrel that did any better than a good Chrome lined barrel. I've never shot Camp Perry quality builds however.
The mose accurate gasser we have now is Geissels's super duty by far.
After reading markm's post, I feel like I should qualify my previous post a little. I only run 77gr SMK hand loads through my competition guns (WOA). I have no idea how they shoot with off the shelf ammo or what-have-you. When I'm in league, or matches, or practice, I shoot the same load through those guns 100%. I'm about to start working on 69gr RMR practice load for one of them to see if I can get a similar close/intermediate range ballistic profile for less expensive practice sessions. We'll see if that holds the same groups as the 77gr - but the goal on this is similar drop and poi, not tight groups - I don't want to have to change my dope.
I'm pretty sure mine are Wylde chamber (which I don't like either, but it hasn't been a problem with my WOA barrels) and I have 1/8 and 1/7 twist examples. I prefer 1/7 and will be using that for everything 5.56 in the future.
I'm about to start working on 69gr RMR practice load for one of them to see if I can get a similar close/intermediate range ballistic profile for less expensive practice sessions. We'll see if that holds the same groups as the 77gr - but the goal on this is similar drop and poi, not tight groups - I don't want to have to change my dope.
Post your results in the 69gr RMR thread. I think 77s hit a little lower out of my 14.5 SOCOM, but each barrel is different. How far do you plan to shoot the 69s? (desired POI distances you hope to match)
Post your results in the 69gr RMR thread. I think 77s hit a little lower out of my 14.5 SOCOM, but each barrel is different. How far do you plan to shoot the 69s? (desired POI distances you hope to match)
I'll update further on the other thread. I'm hoping to match it at 200 & 300, but I'll be happy just to get the same poi at 200. That would be enough for offhand practice without having to adjust anything else in the system. Eventually, I'll do some separate testing and see how they print and buck the wind at 600.
Ended up getting the fluted 18" SPR WOA. Came in today and already have it mounted. It looks 100x better than the BA 18" SPR I am replacing it with. Had to send the BA barrel back as it had a ridge in the throat all the way around. It shot like crap and also had a oversized bore. I shoot cast bullets in my rifles and needed to now the size so I can size the bullets to the right size. I could push a lead slug right through with no effort at all. I used a 0.228" lead slug to push through to get the size and it almost fell through the barrel. Here is a pic of the throat.
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Ended up getting the fluted 18" SPR WOA. Came in today and already have it mounted. It looks 100x better than the BA 18" SPR I am replacing it with. Had to send the BA barrel back as it had a ridge in the throat all the way around. It shot like crap and also had a oversized bore. I shoot cast bullets in my rifles and needed to now the size so I can size the bullets to the right size. I could push a lead slug right through with no effort at all. I used a 0.228" lead slug to push through to get the size and it almost fell through the barrel. Here is a pic of the throat.
Why?
A pistol round from a short pistol barrel - I can understand but a rifle round from a rifle length barrel? Guessing you have to load them slow as heck to prevent instant leading.
What am I missing here?
223 and cast bullets in ARs make no sense to me.
Blooper loads in 7x57 Spanish Mauser carbine and they are lots of fun for plinking. But it was designed for heavy slower bullets, unlike 223.
Why???? I have a 65gr bullet going 2700fps. It groups at 1.5" for a 10 shot group. You guys need to do some research because you have no clue.
Why???? I have a 65gr bullet going 2700fps. It groups at 1.5" for a 10 shot group. You guys need to do some research because you have no clue.
Uncoated lead bullets?
The Centurion Arms MK12 barrel or their Recce barrel are another option. I just ordered one of their MK12 barrels last night. The place had both barrels in stock.
https://youtu.be/uTEhO79ip-s
https://youtu.be/psZ3zUcg8MM
* MK12 Barrel *
Now available in Standard 18" Rifle length gas AND 16" Midlength gas!
These are Crane Spec. MK12 barrels. These barrels are the result of tens of thousands of dollars in development done by the U.S. government to give our Special Operations guys the best weapon system they can have. We have spoken with many riflemen who have used these barrels and carried them in combat and have found unanimous satisfaction with their *reliability* and accuracy.
Specs:
Material: 416R Stainless
Barrel extension: M4 feed ramps
Chamber: optimized for use with MK262 (Black Hills 77gr equivalent)
Twist: 1 in 7 right hand
Contour: for use with OPS inc.
Length: 18 in and threaded 1/2x28 for use with most common muzzle devices
Weight: 2 lbs 6.3 oz
**THESE SERVE AS HBAR BARRELS**
*****Centurion Arms barrels require no further break in*****
****************************************
* RECCE Barrel *
These are produced with the same chamber as our Spec. MK12 barrels with a slightly heavier profile. Built for *reliability* and accuracy. Available in both 14.5" and 16.1" lengths.
Specs:
Material: 416R Stainless
Barrel extension: M4 feed ramps
Chamber: optimized for use with MK262 (Black Hills 77gr equivalent)
Twist: 1 in 7 right hand
Length: 14.5in or 16.1in and threaded 1/2x28 for use with most common muzzle devices
Weight: 14.5in 2lb 3.7oz
16.1in 2lb 5.6oz
**THESE SERVE AS HBAR BARRELS***
*****Centurion Arms barrels require no further break in*****
Why???? I have a 65gr bullet going 2700fps. It groups at 1.5" for a 10 shot group. You guys need to do some research because you have no clue.
Please provide the manufacturer (or lead coating process you use) of lead bullets that tolerate 2700 fps without heavily leading the barrel. I’ve never heard of this being remotely possible.
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It is called a gas checked and powder coated bullet. I water drop them out of the mold. Then gas check them to size. Then powder coat and bake them. Then run them through the sizer for final pass. Then age them. I like to let them age at least 6 months. I get better accuracy than FMJ bullets. But you have to be extremely picky with the inspection of the bullets and weight sort them before and work being done to them. Casting them and being as consistent as you can on EVERY pour is key to getting them to shoot at elevated speeds. It is easy to shoot 1.5 MOA up to 2500fps. But past that it takes you being anal about everything.
This is in a Sabre Defense Match fluted 1-8tw 556 barrel from years ago. Before they got in trouble and were shut down by the ATF. And in a Savage 10 with a 1-9tw McGowen in 223. I have tried with 1-7 twist but it is just too much RPM to get them past 2500fps.
It is called a gas checked and powder coated bullet. I water drop them out of the mold. Then gas check them to size. Then powder coat and bake them. Then run them through the sizer for final pass. Then age them. I like to let them age at least 6 months. I get better accuracy than FMJ bullets.
You may get better accuracy than the cheapest, crappiest FMJ bullets out there but anything other than that - Heck no.
And then spending all of that time doing all of that work...
If a guy is retired with plenty of time on his hands and limited dollars to spend it 'might' make sense if a guy really likes casting, powdercoating, and can reclaim and recycle his lead.
I thank goodness I don't have to mess with any of that. Life is too short.
Really? My savage I had with a 308w Shilen select match barrel shot at 1/2 MOA with cast. If I ran the bullets (165gr) up to 2500fps they would be 1MOA. But If I kept them at 2200fps I could get the 1/2MOA. So that is not worth it. I make my own gas checks so that cost me about $0.005/ea. 1lb of powder coat cost me $20. I can get over 15000 bullets out of a lb. Lead is free. Brass is free. I sell brass to pay for powder and primers.
And the fact that I can make these and shoot better than 95% of the people on most gun forums is priceless. I dont normally bring this type of stuff up as most people are skeptical and dont have a clue.
I'm curious how much time is required to do this.
I'm curious how much time is required to do this.
A shit ton.
You take regular reloading times / speeds and then add a crap ton to it (multiples of how long it normally takes) because you are manufacturing your own projectiles AND trying to build them so they are accurate AND don't screw up your gun, with a rifle bullet... (powder coating / gas checks)
Aside of the extra time involved, you will need special tools / materials and the knowledge / experience using them to make any of this happen.
Definitely NOT 'beginner' reloading stuff here as far as skill level, experience, or tools are concerned.
If a guy has the time, the tools and the brains - Yes. This is possible.
I have a lathe and I made my own gas check dies on top of everything else. I also make my own sizing dies for the bullets.
My next project will be to make swaging dies to make my own jacketed bullets. I have almost a 5 gal bucket of 22rf brass for the jackets. I have the mold to make cores. I just have to bore it out and mill it off to adjust for weight.
Took the gun out today and sighted the scope back in for this barrel. Then ran 20 rounds through it to just checking how it ran. Took it home and cleaned and ran the borescope down the barrel. The gas port has me worried. I am going to send a pic to WOA to see what they say. Not going to shoot this till i hear from them. But the gas port looks like I have about 1000 rounds down the barrel.
A shit ton.
Yup. This entire situation is borderline mystifying. I feel bad for WOA and regret saying anything.
indianalex01
04-13-22, 00:26
Both Compass Lake and White Oak have long, notable history of performance at Camp Perry and with the military.
Wilson got his name hot-rodding 1911s, Berettas, and now SIGs. A long record with high-end pistols, but I'm not sure what he might claim for long guns.
When you say you aren’t sure, what do you mean? I haven’t heard a bad thing about Wilson barrels. I have shot some AU Mk12’s with Wilson barrels. Sub MOA. Wilson doesn’t put crap out.
One More Time
04-13-22, 08:01
I just finished putting mine together.
Almost a shame to install the barrel.
I kinda just carried it around and looked at it.
Wilson claims sub MOA from their barrels.
I have a few kinds of ammo to test that out.
I have a WOA that we could never get sub MOA. But it's a ADCO Custom Cruiser or some such. Those booger eaters at ADCO pinned a sight base and a low pro (shaved FSB). Looks like some kids in high school shop did the work which probably Effed up the harmonics 10 times over.
I would never buy another Wylde Chamber. Sucks for hot ammo. I'd MUCH rather roll the dice on a good Chrome Lined barrel. I've never shot a SS barrel that did any better than a good Chrome lined barrel. I've never shot Camp Perry quality builds however.
The mose accurate gasser we have now is Geissels's super duty by far.
If I were in the market for a White Oak Armament barrel, I would buy it direct from John Holliger.
When you say you aren’t sure, what do you mean? I haven’t heard a bad thing about Wilson barrels. I have shot some AU Mk12’s with Wilson barrels. Sub MOA. Wilson doesn’t put crap out.Meaning who has won any of the prestigious National Matches with a Wilson Combat barrel?
These games are shot by shooters at the top of their game in a consistent, time-proven format: 200 yards standing, 200 yards rapid fire sitting, 300 yards rapid fire prone, and 600 yards slow fire prone -- the same format for over a century, from Springfield through M1, M14, and now M16.
Winners tend to be pretty particular of their barrels and ammunition (either handloads or factory). Barrels are usually custom-turned by guys like Frank White, John Holliger, and hundreds of others to squeeze the maximum precision potential from a quality blank for at least 3000 rounds, perhaps two seasons.
There are a few who have won matches with an off-the-rack rifle (Harry Harrison from the Marine Reserve Team as one example, winning the NRA Championships with an Armalite he bought off Camp Perry's Commercial Row).
I'd think if someone had won with a Wilson, they'd let the world know -- they have a pretty savvy and developed marketing crew.
indianalex01
04-13-22, 10:52
Meaning who has won any of the prestigious National Matches with a Wilson Combat barrel?
These games are shot by shooters at the top of their game in a consistent, time-proven format: 200 yards standing, 200 yards rapid fire sitting, 300 yards rapid fire prone, and 600 yards slow fire prone -- the same format for over a century, from Springfield through M1, M14, and now M16.
Winners tend to be pretty particular of their barrels and ammunition (either handloads or factory). Barrels are usually custom-turned by guys like Frank White, John Holliger, and hundreds of others to squeeze the maximum precision potential from a quality blank for at least 3000 rounds, perhaps two seasons.
There are a few who have won matches with an off-the-rack rifle (Harry Harrison from the Marine Reserve Team as one example, winning the NRA Championships with an Armalite he bought off Camp Perry's Commercial Row).
I'd think if someone had won with a Wilson, they'd let the world know -- they have a pretty savvy and developed marketing crew.
Well you should’ve said that originally. The barrels are sub moa. I don’t see Wilson pushing their sale on these. From my experience they have been great. I didn’t realize armalite was such a chosen competition rifle. I compete with Bolt guns and not gas guns so I don’t know all the stuff you speak of. I roll an FN SPR and a Remy M24 on competitions. I do ok but definitely not #1
If I were in the market for a White Oak Armament barrel, I would buy it direct from John Holliger.
Yeah. At the time I was more enamored with the "dissipater" set up because I like iron sight shooting. I had no real interest in a SS barrel. If it shot MOA, I'd be thrilled, but I still enjoy it for recreational Iron sight fun. It's gassed smoothly too.
Yeah. At the time I was more enamored with the "dissipater" set up because I like iron sight shooting. I had no real interest in a SS barrel. If it shot MOA, I'd be thrilled, but I still enjoy it for recreational Iron sight fun. It's gassed smoothly too.
Have a son in AZ not far from you that is into shooting out in the desert like you and PB do all the time.
Really good kid when he is not speaking... And then he opens his mouth and it is 50 / 50 if the stuff that comes out makes me want to choke him or not.
Next time I roadtrip to visit him I think I am doing a fast lunch with him and then ditching his ass to spend the rest of my time up there hanging out with you and PB. I got some CLE barrels you guys need to play with... :)
Meaning who has won any of the prestigious National Matches with a Wilson Combat barrel?
These games are shot by shooters at the top of their game in a consistent, time-proven format: 200 yards standing, 200 yards rapid fire sitting, 300 yards rapid fire prone, and 600 yards slow fire prone -- the same format for over a century, from Springfield through M1, M14, and now M16.
Winners tend to be pretty particular of their barrels and ammunition (either handloads or factory). Barrels are usually custom-turned by guys like Frank White, John Holliger, and hundreds of others to squeeze the maximum precision potential from a quality blank for at least 3000 rounds, perhaps two seasons.
There are a few who have won matches with an off-the-rack rifle (Harry Harrison from the Marine Reserve Team as one example, winning the NRA Championships with an Armalite he bought off Camp Perry's Commercial Row).
I'd think if someone had won with a Wilson, they'd let the world know -- they have a pretty savvy and developed marketing crew.
I am in complete agreement. Two men I shoot against every month are nationally ranked shooters who have earned their distinguished badges. John Holliger at White Oak Armament is their go to guy for good barrels and well built uppers.
I have been eyeing a WOA 20" SPR barrel ever since I realized they made one. Good to hear about them, made my decision easy. Once they come in stock I just have to decide on 1/8" or 1/7" twist for 75's and 77's.
I have been eyeing a WOA 20" SPR barrel ever since I realized they made one. Good to hear about them, made my decision easy. Once they come in stock I just have to decide on 1/8" or 1/7" twist for 75's and 77's.
1/8 is plenty. 1/7 would work too, but we even shoot 80 gr loaded long out of a 1/9 20 inch barrel.
1/8 is plenty. 1/7 would work too, but we even shoot 80 gr loaded long out of a 1/9 20 inch barrel.
1/8" is how I was leaning as well, and I have mostly gone to Hornady 75's lately as well. They have shot well for me and I have a bunch of them!
1/8" is how I was leaning as well, and I have mostly gone to Hornady 75's lately as well. They have shot well for me and I have a bunch of them!
Many 1:8 twist barrels are in fact 1:7.7 twist. In my experience 1:7.7 twist barrels spin 80g bullets fast enough to group well at 600 yards.
I shoot CMP with WOA. I use both 1:8 and 1:7 twist. I shoot 77gr SMK exclusively and can't tell a difference between the them. The two I use for competition both group 3/4 moa. Same ballistic trajectory. Literally no difference that I can tell. Some of the guys I shoot with use 80 gr. Bullets at 600 and they say 1:7 is better for that but I honestly have no idea.
Bottom line, I don't think you can go wrong with either from WOA.
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