Ukraine wants non-standard ammo from US

[Slater]

Looks like we're going shopping on the third-party market:

"WASHINGTON, April 25, 2022 - The State Department has made a determination approving a possible Foreign Military Sale to the Government of Ukraine of various rounds of non-standard ammunition for an estimated cost of $165 million. The Defense Security Cooperation Agency delivered the required certification notifying Congress of this possible sale on April 24, 2022.

The Government of Ukraine has requested to buy various rounds of non-standard ammunition to include, but not limited to, the following: 152mm rounds for 2A36 Giatsint; 152mm rounds for D-20 cannons; VOG-17 for automatic grenade launcher AGS-17; 120mm mortar rounds (non-NATO); 122mm rounds for 2Sl Gvozdika; BM-21 GRAD Rockets; 300mm rounds/rockets for MLRS "Smerch;" VOG-25 grenades for under barrel grenade launcher GP-25; 82mm mortar rounds; 125mm HE ammunition for T-72; 152mm rounds for 2A65 Msta; transportation; and other related elements of logistical and program support. The total estimated program cost is $165 million.

The Secretary of State has determined and provided detailed justification that an emergency exists that requires the immediate sale to Ukraine of the above defense articles (and defense services) in the national security interests of the United States, thereby waiving the Congressional review requirements under Section 36(b) of the Arms Export Control Act, as amended. "


https://www.dsca.mil/sites/default/files/mas/Press%20Release%20-%20Ukraine%2022-30%20CN.pdf

[markm]

Starting to sound like "WAR DOGS" the movie.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Starting to sound like "WAR DOGS" the movie.

That was my first thought. Would be hilarious if we could get it from Iran or India. I’m thinking that Egypt would be the easiest place to get it? China, under the table…

Commies learning capitalism…..

[Slater]

I think countries like Serbia and Bulgaria still manufacture a lot of this stuff.

[WillBrink]

That was my first thought. Would be hilarious if we could get it from Iran or India. I’m thinking that Egypt would be the easiest place to get it? China, under the table…

Commies learning capitalism…..

In every commie country is a black market that is pure capitalism. The black market in China no doubt rivals the GDP of some nations.

[SomeOtherGuy]

Can the USA still claim not to be a combatant when its government is sourcing ammo specifically for Ukraine and delivering it to them? Where exactly is the line between neutral third party (ha, ha) and combatant?

Not taking Russia's side. Just saying that creeping escalation is generally a terrible strategy, as seen notably in Vietnam, WW2, WW1, and the 10 years of "no fly zones" over Iraq between 1991 and GW2.

The US needs to pick one strategy. We can go "shock and awe" and try to wipe out their whole capability in a day, or we can actually be neutral. This pansy Dem/globalist approach will probably get us on the receiving end of a first strike that we aren't prepared for.

[sinister]

Just saying that creeping escalation is generally a terrible strategy, as seen notably in Vietnam, WW2, WW1, and the 10 years of "no fly zones" over Iraq between 1991 and GW2.

The US needs to pick one strategy. The US HAS. We couldn't stop the Russians and Chinese from aiding their "Communist brothers." We're merely supporting the side WE choose (like we did with the Contras and Mujihaddin) without forces on the ground.

If I remember correctly, this is the second Russian invasion of Ukraine in eight years.

[alx01]

U.S. should look for such weapons/ammo in Africa, Middle East, and Asia. Basically all the same places corrupt Ukraine officials have been selling their own weapons either from old Soviet stocks or supplied by NATO in the last 10 years.

While buddies with Ukraine we should ask them why the F they sold ballistic missile tech to North Korea which enabled them to build nuclear ICBMs capable of carrying 10 warheads and reaching U.S.

Some excerpts from https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/14/world/asia/north-korea-missiles-ukraine-factory.html:



The engines were so powerful that a single missile could hurl 10 thermonuclear warheads between continents.
Those engines were linked to only a few former Soviet sites. Government investigators and experts have focused their inquiries on a missile factory in Dnipro, Ukraine

It remained one of Russia’s primary producers of missiles even after Ukraine gained independence.

“It’s likely that these engines came from Ukraine — probably illicitly,” Mr. Elleman said in an interview. “The big question is how many they have and whether the Ukrainians are helping them now. I’m very worried.”

Mr. Elleman’s detailed analysis is public confirmation of what intelligence officials have been saying privately for some time: The new missiles are based on a technology so complex that it would have been impossible for the North Koreans to have switched gears so quickly themselves. They apparently fired up the new engine for the first time in September — meaning that it took only 10 months to go from that basic milestone to firing an ICBM, a short time unless they were able to buy designs, hardware and expertise on the black market.


Ukrainians, as usual, tried to blame Russians for it. But that Ukrainian company also tried to sell the same tech to Chinese just prior to N. Korea:



Last month, Yuzhmash denied reports that the factory complex was struggling for survival and selling its technologies abroad, in particular to China.

[mack7.62]

Not being NATO standard does not make it non standard, not sure what you would call it now though, not Soviet Block, not Com Block maybe Dragonbear Block. Vietnam might have some also but agreed Egypt might be the best bet.

[The_War_Wagon]

Seeing as Biteme is in Xi's hip pocket, I keep waiting for the pressure on Xiden to start importing Norinco again

[mack7.62]

Seeing as Biteme is in Xi's hip pocket, I keep waiting for the pressure on Xiden to start importing Norinco again

Canada was importing the Norinco 305 M14S and selling them for around $400, not sure if they are still allowed to do this with them changing the laws. They even made a version in 7.62x39 that used AK mags, I know it's sacrilege but i would really like to have one of those.

[Alpha-17]

Can the USA still claim not to be a combatant when its government is sourcing ammo specifically for Ukraine and delivering it to them? Where exactly is the line between neutral third party (ha, ha) and combatant?

Not taking Russia's side. Just saying that creeping escalation is generally a terrible strategy, as seen notably in Vietnam, WW2, WW1, and the 10 years of "no fly zones" over Iraq between 1991 and GW2.

Actually, the historical parallel that best matches at this point would be American support for the British war effort prior to American involvement in WWII. The original Lend-Lease program was passed in March of '41, after all. We gave them loans, sold them ammo, and literally gave them equipment pulled from American units well before Hitler's declaration of war arrived. One could argue that this slow, but steady increase of aid drew the US into the conflict, while I'd argue that would have likely happened anyway, and was crucial in keeping the other Allied powers in the fight. We'll just have to see what the consequences will be here.

[WillBrink]

Actually, the historical parallel that best matches at this point would be American support for the British war effort prior to American involvement in WWII. The original Lend-Lease program was passed in March of '41, after all. We gave them loans, sold them ammo, and literally gave them equipment pulled from American units well before Hitler's declaration of war arrived. One could argue that this slow, but steady increase of aid drew the US into the conflict, while I'd argue that would have likely happened anyway, and was crucial in keeping the other Allied powers in the fight. We'll just have to see what the consequences will be here.

I don't get why so many have difficulty understanding proxy war when it's almost as old as war itself and we have endless examples of it. Everyone knows the rules.

Personally, I think we should have left the ungrateful commies to their fate with Hitler, as whether Hitler was able to "win" there or not, attempting to hold and control Russia would have been impossible and would have taken most of the German efforts, while trying to fight the Allies.

It was banned in Russia to even mention the Lend Lease Act in Russia after WWII until fall of the wall, and we saved their ass big time, and what we got in return was not even a statue of thanx as the French sent.

Of course some US generals knew they were our true enemy and felt we should deal with them while already massed in Europe, but the world had defeated the Nazi's and had no more interest and stomach for war, which is understandable of course.