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m6scout
12-18-08, 22:08
I see a lot of info on the Benelli and others in the semi-auto world.My question is what is wrong with the 11-87.I have used one or Ducks and Turkeys over the years.(I know they don't shoot back)I am just curios about why it does not make a good combat shotgun......All inputs are welcome.

Ttwwaack
12-19-08, 12:34
Reliability. That is why alot of sporting clays shooters call them jam-o-matics. Because of their gas system design after 75-200 rds you start to have problems. This was supposedly cleared up with the 11-87 but the problem is still there. You will be alright for awhile if you start with a clean gun. My Beretta 390 is alot better, 800-1000 between cleaning. I could probably go longer but once I start having problems, I relube, finish my round(s) then clean. I wouldn't grab a 390 though for a shotgun class. Although it has a self regulating gas system, alot of the operating parts are alloy. I don't know how they would stand up to a stead 2-3 day diet of buck - n - ball.

The recoil operated Beretta FP1200 and the H&K will go and go and go like that little energizer bunny. The Benelli system seems to be good. I have no experiance with it but I haven't heard any horror stories.

If you have to have a reliable scattergun, I'd choose the 870 or the Beretta FP1200. Once the 870 gets dirty, you just have to Man'-ual it alittle more. I'd like to get my hands on a Benelli though for a couple 300 rounds or so to see how it stacks up against Beretta and H&K.

Can someone clarify for me how the benelli operates, gas or recoil?

sgtred
12-19-08, 15:16
Benelli is recoil operated, and the choice of the top 3-gun shooters.

The 1100/11-87 platform is probably the most plentiful semi-auto in 3-gun.

But in combat, for years and years no one has advocated anything other than a pump.

With less history and little need for 3 inch shell capability in a tactical role, the 11-87 falls behind the 1100 in popularity.

scottp999
12-19-08, 15:56
Can someone clarify for me how the benelli operates, gas or recoil?

Benelli M4 is gas operated.

I looked at the M4, but ordered an FN SLP instead. FN seems to be right up there in reliability. The M4 is a great weapon but wanted to stay at a 1k budget, not 1.6over 1k and then 2-400 more for the original mag extension piece.

hags
12-20-08, 09:56
Yeah, it's sad that one of the few American manufacturers is outclassed by virtually all of their competition.

The 1100/11-87 use outdated gas systems. Once they get dirty, and they do by virtue of design, they start to choke.

I have an FN SLP Mk1 that has run 100% on whatever I feed it. I have switched between the two gas pistons without issue. After awhile I found that it was unnecessary, I leave the heavy piston in regardless of what I shoot.
It likes to be run wet and really isn't particular about cleaning as long as it's well lubed.

Alpha Sierra
12-23-08, 17:46
It likes to be run wet and really isn't particular about cleaning as long as it's well lubed.
Just like 1100s/11-87s. Imagine that.

hags
12-23-08, 18:57
Just like 1100s/11-87s. Imagine that.

Ha, sure, until the O-ring need replacing.

MarshallDodge
12-23-08, 19:54
I realize that your post is asking about the 11-87 but I have to give kudos to the Benelli as well.

I talked to a guy that shoots a lot of 3-gun and he recommended the Benelli to me. I didn't fully believe him until I got a good deal on a M1S90....it runs, and runs, and runs. Most of the loads I run through it are lighter bird reloads and I have had one malfunction in about 800 rounds. It was due to a wrinkle in a reloaded shell.

Cleaning it is a breeze and extremely simple compared to a gas gun.

I think the only positive about a gas gun is that the perceived recoil is less. My son has been shooting a Winchester 1400 12 gauge since he was 10, very easy on the shoulder.

Alpha Sierra
12-23-08, 20:18
Ha, sure, until the O-ring need replacing.

My 11-87 never needed one in five seasons of constant skeet and sporting clays competition. That's approximately 7,000 rounds.

How hard have you used your 11-87?

hags
12-23-08, 20:59
My 11-87 never needed one in five seasons of constant skeet and sporting clays competition. That's approximately 7,000 rounds.

How hard have you used your 11-87?

I don't use one. If I can't shoot a variety of loads through a shotgun without misfeeds or cycling problems then I have no use for it.

Mine would not cycle light loads, which is fine, I realize that it was not built for that. I sold it just the same.

I am talking about an 11-87P here. YMMV and that's good. I do wish Remington would update their gas system to something like the Benelli Inertia or the Browning/Winchester/FN gas type. The Berettas are nice too but have had their issues.
I'd like to cheer for an American (owned and operated) firearms manufacturer when it came to a well built and versatile semi-auto shotgun (built here).

That's all I'm saying when I say the Remington gas system is outdated. They should improve it or replace it 'cause the competition is eating their lunch when it comes to s/a shotguns.

Alpha Sierra
12-23-08, 21:16
I don't use one. If I can't shoot a variety of loads through a shotgun without misfeeds or cycling problems then I have no use for it.

Mine would not cycle light loads, which is fine, I realize that it was not built for that. I sold it just the same.

I am talking about an 11-87P here. YMMV and that's good. I do wish Remington would update their gas system to something like the Benelli Inertia or the Browning/Winchester/FN gas type. The Berettas are nice too but have had their issues.
I'd like to cheer for an American (owned and operated) firearms manufacturer when it came to a well built and versatile semi-auto shotgun (built here).

That's all I'm saying when I say the Remington gas system is outdated. They should improve it or replace it 'cause the competition is eating their lunch when it comes to s/a shotguns.

My 11-87 Premier will digest everything from Winchester Featherlights to 3" magnums with 100% reliability.

If the 1100/11-87 gas system is not to your liking, the Remington 105CTi's does not rely on an o-ring.

LonghunterCO
12-25-08, 16:52
My 11/87 police runs with bird loads on up without issue (have not run super light loads so could not comment on them). I replaced the o-ring every 5K, but only because someone recomended it to me not because I was having problems. I am not sure as to all the posts I see that say the gas system has issues, (mostly posted by people that don't own them).

jjc155
12-25-08, 17:37
No problem with my 1187 police either. runs great.

J-

Buckshot TX
12-25-08, 22:37
Howdy! - first post here, been lurking awhile.
I'm a gunsmith by trade who works on LOTS of 1100s & 11/87s - not because they break a lot, but because they're incredibly common in my AO. I'm frankly AMAZED by how fouled these weapons get before their owners complain of malfunctions. Often we're talking thousands of rounds of dirty shooting bargain ammo with no real lubrication before they start to choke. I test the overhauled remmies with 1&1/8 oz dove loads & have NEVER had one need a stiffer charge to get one to function reliably. The design has been improved & updated numerous times over it's history & to Remington's credit, all the improvements are retrofittable to the older 1100s.
I've got nothing against the Berettas, Benellis & Super-X2 actions, & I'd gladly do battle with a sound A-5 at hand, but the recent Remingtons run great with just a lick & a smile. The barrel seals do wear out after thousands of rounds, but I usually see a lot more of them split by owners due to improper assembly than actual wear.
A poorly maintained pump is a better fighting weapon than any poorly maintained auto shotgun, but a reasonably maintained 11-87P is a serious piece of ordinance!

LDM
12-26-08, 09:50
BuckshotTX thank you, sir for bringing up the venerable Browning A-5. It is in the same class as the 1911.

Bit of history: A-5's were one weapon of choice on the Son Tay raid.

I know the A-5 is an anarchism and almost collectors item these days, but I was raised on the old all-steel Belgium Brownings. My trust in this weapon is strong and the manual-of-arms is virtually muscle memory/reflex.

Did a lot of deer hunting in SC swamps with a Browning and buckshot. Rough conditions, but with even minimal maintenance never had one, nor saw one fail.

Acknowledge the argument that in certain combat conditions (e.g. sand), a pump is better. But in typical home or civilian applications the A-5 is a good solution.

Stay safe

PS- the racking of a pump sends a strong message, but with bolt locked back and flipping the mag cut-off of an A-5, a round chambering is the same message: Ready, Willing, and Able.

m6scout
01-11-09, 21:24
Thanks for all the replies.There is a lot of good and interesting takes on the 1187.Mine is actually a special purpose and has yet to fail me in the duck blind ,which can get very nasty or turkey woods.I do however keep my old Ithica dearslyer ready for home defence along with a Winchester 94 trapper(16"brl) .44 mag.The sound of a slide or lever being actuated does have it's psycological effect

m6scout
01-11-09, 21:28
LDM,Love the old A-5's too.I even put a lot of rounds through a Remington M11 in the rabbit woods when I was a kid