Sig DAK

[kaltblitz]

Any fans of Sigs's DAK trigger system on here?

I'm in the process of buying a 229R 40 DAK. I've shot a couple guns with it in the past and I think with a fair amount of trigger time I can get pretty good with it.

[ToddG]

I've shot them extensively and actually taught the first DAK transition class for SIG (for a large federal agency). I've carried a DAK, taught with it, and shot it in competition.

Pros: Smooth
Relatively light (though not as light as originally intended)
Easy to teach
Intermediate reset can protect against short stroking if you practice to release trigger fully between shots
Re-strike capability
No need to decock after shooting (cf. DA/SA SIG)

Cons: Intermediate reset is long and heavier than regular trigger pull
Full reset is very long
Trigger reach can be too long for some people (can be alleviated in many cases by installing a factory "short" trigger)

For many shooters, the DAK will be easy to shoot accurately at any reasonable speed. The longer trigger stroke actually has certain advantages (you don't lose contact with the trigger so you're less likely to slap the trigger) but is also more fatiguing over the course of a long shooting session or multi-day class.

At a certain point, though, the DAK mechanism simply can't be run as fast as a DA/SA SIG (or an SAO, or SFA, or the similar H&K LEM).

[beaker]

I have two DAKs and like them, but Todd is right: the reset is pretty long, and the short trigger is pretty much mandatory (for me anyway).

Todd: what would you think of a SAO with a modified trigger pull down to the 6.5 of the DAK? Would that be the best of both worlds?

I went with the DAK because I don't like DA/SA, but the pull of the SAO was too much.

[ToddG]

beaker, I assume you mean DAO not SAO.

A true DAO with a trigger pull the same weight of the DAK wouldn't really be much different, except you'd lose the benefit of having that intermediate reset to cover your butt when you short-stroke the trigger. It may be a minor benefit, but why give it up?

The P250 has a trigger pull like you're describing, and so far it seems very few people like it. In a market where just about every gun is flying off the shelves at warp speed, P250's still languish at shops. Unless SIG comes out with its (rumored) striker-fired version of the gun, I don't expect the P250 to last through 2010.

BTW, while SIG doesn't advertise it as such, the nominal trigger pull weight for the DAK is not 6.5 pounds. It was originally supposed to be 3 kilos (6.6#). For most guns, it was probably closer to or just over 7#. Then, due to misfire problems with non-toxic primers, SIG began using a heavier (red-painted) mainspring which increases the trigger pull another quarter to half a pound. Also, the P220 and P239 DAKs have heavier trigger pulls than the P226/P229 by a little bit (usually another quarter to half a pound) due to dimensional issues.

[HK45]

I was a big fan of the DAK trigger for awhile. For me though I found that unless I used DAK and no other trigger I could not consistently do well with it. I no longer buy Sigs because I think their QC has gone down but thats another thread....

[rubberneck]

I'd have some interest in a DAK trigger only if it could be combined with the SRT, but I suppose that would mean that the gun would no longer be DA only and a moot point.

[sigmundsauer]

A DAK/DA-SA hybrid makes for a pretty sweet trigger system, but I avoid DAKs these days because I am personally convinced that they don't have the positive ignition of the standard DA/SA guns.

Tim

[beaker]

beaker, I assume you mean DAO not SAO.
Whoops - quite correct.

Thanks for the info. Since you have a lot of experience with Sigs, any feelings about the old carbon slides vs. the new(er) ones? Do you think the milled slides can go the distance?

Yeah, I know - a pretty dead horse, but it seems that quality feedback on this is a bit lacking, and I don't know metallurgy enough to form an educated opinion.

[ToddG]

A DAK/DA-SA hybrid makes for a pretty sweet trigger system, but I avoid DAKs these days because I am personally convinced that they don't have the positive ignition of the standard DA/SA guns.

In my experience, the DAK makes SAAMI spec for firing pin indent. I've watched the tests performed multiple times and have reports from a variety of agency guns that were tested.

Admittedly, the fact that SIG (a) had so many guns returned for ignition failures that they were testing them frequently and (b) had to change to a heavier mainspring certainly is dispositive of the fact that quite a few folks experienced problems.

FWIW, at least one major customer I dealt with while at SIG had similar problems with both DAK and DA/SA SIGs using particular .40-cal frangible ammo. They had no such problems with their (standard primer) duty ammo.

I did have a pair of early SIG DAK 9mm guns which had numerous light primer hit problems, but according to the engineers in both cases it was attributed to improper machining of the firing pin channel and likely would have caused problems regardless of whether it was a DAK or DA/SA gun.


Thanks for the info. Since you have a lot of experience with Sigs, any feelings about the old carbon slides vs. the new(er) ones? Do you think the milled slides can go the distance?

All else being equal, the one-piece stainless steel milled slides are better. They are more durable and less maintenance intensive. The flip side is that the general level of fit, finish, and QC at SIG today isn't what it was when the two-piece carbon steel stamped slides were being used.

[Mark71]

I have never shot the DAK trigger but can someone tell me how it compares to HK's LEM trigger.

Thanks

[Savior 6]

I actually prefer the older Sig DAO to the Sig DAK but then again I like the longer DA trigger pull. I seem to be more accurate with it.

[JonInWA]

I prefer the DAK to the LEM; in fact, before I ultimately purchased my P229 DAK I compared it side-by-side with an HK 2000 with LEM-the DAK was significantly smoother (at least with the ones I compared)-and personally I've pretty much always preferred to go with SIG as opposed to HK.

Both are good systems; I'd suggest that you probably should make your decision around your preferences pertaining to the basic platform (i.e., SIG vs. HK) as opposed to DAK vs. LEM.

Best, Jon

[beaker]

All else being equal, the one-piece stainless steel milled slides are better. They are more durable and less maintenance intensive. The flip side is that the general level of fit, finish, and QC at SIG today isn't what it was when the two-piece carbon steel stamped slides were being used.
Interesting - thanks for the reply.