View Full Version : Sons of Liberty Sage Dynamics Edition 12.5” AR Pistol
I was wondering if anyone knows how often they make these and how hard they are to get a hold of brand new? I’m assuming they sell out right away from various vendors because everywhere I look online they are sold out. How does the Rosco barrel in this gun compared to other barrel manufacturers? I’ve heard of Rosco barrels but do not know much about them. Thank you guys.
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I have three or four Rosco barrels. Two of their stainless and two of their nitride coated barrels. I cannot speak to barrel life yet but there is an interesting autopsy on the SOTAR page of one that was run at full auto for something like 10k rounds. Held up pretty well. Anyway the ones I have are gassed really well and accurate. The Purebred version I have in my 13.7 rifle is MOA all day with the right ammo. As is the 16 inch nitride one I own. I think they are a screaming deal for the money. Are they a Criterion? Nope. But I would say they are 80% of one for less than half the cost. That being said, I was kind of amazed they put a Rosco barrel in a $2300 rifle. As much as I love them I think a rifle in that price range would warrant a higher end name.
Profit margin. “Good enough”, is good enough.
I have three or four Rosco barrels. Two of their stainless and two of their nitride coated barrels. I cannot speak to barrel life yet but there is an interesting autopsy on the SOTAR page of one that was run at full auto for something like 10k rounds. Held up pretty well. Anyway the ones I have are gassed really well and accurate. The Purebred version I have in my 13.7 rifle is MOA all day with the right ammo. As is the 16 inch nitride one I own. I think they are a screaming deal for the money. Are they a Criterion? Nope. But I would say they are 80% of one for less than half the cost. That being said, I was kind of amazed they put a Rosco barrel in a $2300 rifle. As much as I love them I think a rifle in that price range would warrant a higher end name.
How would they compare to say Ballistic Advantage?
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How would they compare to say Ballistic Advantage?
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I would take them over a BA barrel. Just my opinion but I think they are made better than the BAs.
Profit margin. “Good enough”, is good enough.
Maybe? I know Aaron Cowan has done at least one video where he tests the rosco upper and raves about the performance and accuracy so maybe it was by his direction? Either way at that price point it seems like a mismatch. I am pretty sure I could build that rifle for less.
crosseyedshooter
05-13-22, 11:50
Maybe? I know Aaron Cowan has done at least one video where he tests the rosco upper and raves about the performance and accuracy so maybe it was by his direction? Either way at that price point it seems like a mismatch. I am pretty sure I could build that rifle for less.
There also used to be a Sage Dynamics PWS rifle. If I recall, the biggest difference from a regular PWS was the color.
http://youtu.be/dYgxU-E5xac
There also used to be a Sage Dynamics PWS rifle. If I recall, the biggest difference from a regular PWS was the color.
LOL right? I remember that one too. I like the guy's channel and he definitely abuses his stuff in the name of testing. But in general I tend to look at any signature series gun as a bit of a gimmick. I like SOLGW. I like PWS. Own some stuff from both of them. But wouldn't pay a premium for a signature series anything. I think Costa did this too and it was like a $2800 LaRue AR. I also think at one point Cowan was "sponsored" by PWS IIRC? Very few true gun reviewers out there who aren't taking sponsor money. Just like how gun mags never gave a bad review on a manufacturer who had ad space in their rag.
LOL right? I remember that one too. I like the guy's channel and he definitely abuses his stuff in the name of testing. But in general I tend to look at any signature series gun as a bit of a gimmick. I like SOLGW. I like PWS. Own some stuff from both of them. But wouldn't pay a premium for a signature series anything. I think Costa did this too and it was like a $2800 LaRue AR. I also think at one point Cowan was "sponsored" by PWS IIRC? Very few true gun reviewers out there who aren't taking sponsor money. Just like how gun mags never gave a bad review on a manufacturer who had ad space in their rag.
If you watch Cowan’s video online about the gun he talks about making this a gun where you aren’t paying for a signature name because he hates the idea of paying for a name. It looks like he had an idea for what he wanted and SOLGW did their magic to build the gun.
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If you watch Cowan’s video online about the gun he talks about making this a gun where you aren’t paying for a signature name because he hates the idea of paying for a name. It looks like he had an idea for what he wanted and SOLGW did their magic to build the gun.
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Which is funny because then it gets, wait for it, marketed and sold as a signature series gun.
Which is funny because then it gets, wait for it, marketed and sold as a signature series gun.
I know what you mean, but I feel like if they really wanted to they could have charged another couple hundred bucks and people would still buy it.
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Maybe? I know Aaron Cowan has done at least one video where he tests the rosco upper and raves about the performance and accuracy so maybe it was by his direction? Either way at that price point it seems like a mismatch. I am pretty sure I could build that rifle for less.
Yes. This is pretty much it. Gun is built to his preferred spec so that’s why it uses the Rosco barrel.
I know what you mean, but I feel like if they really wanted to they could have charged another couple hundred bucks and people would still buy it.
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Going to have to respectfully disagree. At a few hundred more you are already well beyond a PWS top of the line piston gun with full ambi lower and headed into KAC and LMT territory.
Going to have to respectfully disagree. At a few hundred more you are already well beyond a PWS top of the line piston gun with full ambi lower and headed into KAC and LMT territory.
I agree with this assessment. It’s already well over $2000. Anymore and you get into the boutique manufacturers.
As an example, I have a build using a SOLGW receiver set, an FCD A5 set up along with FCD parts for the lower and FA, Radian CH and ambi safety, LaRue MBT trigger, CMT hand guard and a Rosco 13.7 with a pinned and welded Knox. Oh and a Rubber City BCG with OCKS and Sprinco springs. In other words quality components. I think I am all in (sans optics) 1500 ish?
Defaultmp3
05-13-22, 14:38
It's my understanding that SoLGW is inherently biased toward those barrels. For example, I was told that the new Presscheck gun has one at the insistence of Mihalski, despite Pressburg preferring a different barrel (I would assume that Pressburg's preference would be for a quality chrome-lined barrel or perhaps a stainless).
It's my understanding that SoLGW is inherently biased toward those barrels. For example, I was told that the new Presscheck gun has one at the insistence of Mihalski, despite Pressburg preferring a different barrel (I would assume that Pressburg's preference would be for a quality chrome-lined barrel or perhaps a stainless).
The barrel they used in the Sage gun is one of Rosco's stainless barrels. They also make nitride and phosphate/cl barrels. I had heard that SOLGW was using Rosco as ONE of their barrel suppliers but they weren't the only barrel supplier. Not sure where I heard that so treat it as such. I do know that the BAD Workhorse I picked up awhile back has a Rosco barrel and BCG in it. And there are other companies that use them as well.
I agree with this assessment. It’s already well over $2000. Anymore and you get into the boutique manufacturers.
So a weapon in that price range is using a nitrided barrel? That is ridiculous and a cheap rip-off. I could see if it was an $800 AR but for $2K? Wouldn't touch it with a 10ft pole for that much $$$ and yet a chintzy corner-cutting barrel (add I saw says it's a 4150 12.5″ CMV barrel, so it isn't SS).
I also think at one point Cowan was "sponsored" by PWS IIRC? He was. I didn’t realize he wasn’t anymore. Didn’t that thing have a different barrel length that wasn’t otherwise available from PWS? I wanna say it was a 12.7”.
I have three or four Rosco barrels. Two of their stainless and two of their nitride coated barrels. I cannot speak to barrel life yet but there is an interesting autopsy on the SOTAR page of one that was run at full auto for something like 10k rounds. Held up pretty well..
I’d expect a nitride barrel to be roached after 10k on a select fire that spends much time on auto.
He was. I didn’t realize he wasn’t anymore. Didn’t that thing have a different barrel length that wasn’t otherwise available from PWS? I wanna say it was a 12.7”.
I’d expect a nitride barrel to be roached after 10k on a select fire that spends much time on auto.
[Beavis and Butthead voice] "Heh heh, you said roached! Heh heh."
grizzlyblake
05-14-22, 05:44
A quick cursory search shows DDM4V7s in stock online around $1500, BCM Recce 16s around $1300, and basic SOLGWs around $1700.
What is SOLGW doing that has now pushed their pricing over the usual suspects?
^^ Uhhh, put "Sage Dynamics" on it?
NoveskeFan
05-14-22, 07:21
The basic Sons 16" is under $1200
https://www.bigtexordnance.com/product/solgw-m4-exo2-m-lok-rifle-16-black-sons-of-liberty-gunworks-copy/
The models over $1700 have the upgraded wedge lock rails, usually VLTOR A5 buffer systems, NOX muzzle device and other small upgrades. I bought a Sage Edition on impulse and I like it. Sure, I could have saved a bit more and got a KAC or something...but I'd probably still be looking. I love what Sons stands for as a company and their warranty is pretty much tops.
Just Prince
05-14-22, 18:50
They used Roscoe because Roscoe made the barrels exactly how SOLGW wanted them made. It's not just a standard Roscoe 12.5 barrel. It's a barrel spec'd exactly how Mike wanted it. Aaron Cowan also has or had a relationship with Roscoe. It had nothing to do with profit margins. If you don't beleiev me ask Mike. He posted his number on the forum or PM him.
They used Roscoe because Roscoe made the barrels exactly how SOLGW wanted them made. It's not just a standard Roscoe 12.5 barrel. It's a barrel spec'd exactly how Mike wanted it. Aaron Cowan also has or had a relationship with Roscoe. It had nothing to do with profit margins. If you don't beleiev me ask Mike. He posted his number on the forum or PM him.
What kind of reasonable accuracy can someone expect from Rosco? I’ve heard of them but have never shot one. Do these barrels hold at least 1 MOA with the right ammo?
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The reason why I am curious about the accuracy out of the Rosco barrels is because I was going to use this 12.5 gun as a mini RECCE setup and if I can consistently hit at 400 yards that is what I want. 500 would be even better. Yes I know velocity out of a 12.5 with 5.56 and wind will be problematic but I’m just talking about the accuracy of the barrel itself. Can these barrels perform to that standard?
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Five_Point_Five_Six
05-14-22, 20:58
I'm not sure if they've switched over to all Rosco barrels, but Ballistic Advantage used to be the OEM for SOLGW barrels.
I'm not sure if they've switched over to all Rosco barrels, but Ballistic Advantage used to be the OEM for SOLGW barrels.
I heard that they have used BA barrels.
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Just Prince
05-15-22, 17:58
I'm not sure if they've switched over to all Rosco barrels, but Ballistic Advantage used to be the OEM for SOLGW barrels.
They still do. BA makes the barrels to SOLGW specs. The specs are not the same as a regular BA barrel. I think Roscoe uses The SOLGW specs for their barrels. As for an accuracy guarantee email Roscoe if it's a off the shelf Roscoe barrel. If it's a SOLGW barrel message Mike. I don't have an answer to that question.
Hammer_Man
05-15-22, 18:26
You need to call or email SOLGW and ask them directly about the barrel they use. It’s obvious nobody here has any real world experience with it, so anything said is pure speculation.
What kind of reasonable accuracy can someone expect from Rosco? I’ve heard of them but have never shot one. Do these barrels hold at least 1 MOA with the right ammo?
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In my real world experience with the Rosco barrels I own? Yes. But a good barrel can only do so much if you don't have a decent optic, a good trigger etc etc etc.
Updated. My experience with the 13.7 version of this barrel would seem to back up his results with the 16 inch as well so far
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9cC3UkEmwg&t=12s
He was. I didn’t realize he wasn’t anymore. Didn’t that thing have a different barrel length that wasn’t otherwise available from PWS? I wanna say it was a 12.7”.
I’d expect a nitride barrel to be roached after 10k on a select fire that spends much time on auto.
I was a little bit off on the round count. It was 26,750 rounds at full auto before it started key holing. I believe you are correct on that PWS barrel length as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRqXMvZPAhw
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