SOCOM selects SIG for Personal Defense Weapon

[Slater]

SIG is on a heck of a roll lately:


"The Government hereby submits a notice of intent to award the Commercial Personal Defense Weapon (PDW) contract to Sig Sauer. This IDIQ will provide complete PDW weapons (Sig Rattlers - 5.56mm and .300 Blackout caliber) that includes suppressors (SL series), cleaning kits, magazines, quick barrel change kits and force on force training kits. Furthermore, parts, sustainment, and New Equipment Training will also be part of this IDIQ. The PDW system will allow Operators to have maximum firepower in a concealable weapon.

This IDIQ will be a five-year Firm Fixed Price (FFP) contract. After years of continuous market research, USSOCOM HQ has concluded that Sig Sauer is the only vendor that can fulfill USSOCOM’s need for the Commercial PDW requirement. USSOCOM HQ has been researching and reviewing different systems since 2017. We have meticulously reviewed each system for technical acceptance and whether it fits the commercial definition. Except for Sig Sauer, the vendors did not meet the technical requirements and/or the weapons do not meet the commercial definition. Due to the nature of this particular effort, USSOCOM cannot procure PDWs that are prototypes, under development, not in production, are in limited production or will be in general production in 1-2 years from now (assuming the PDW is not in production or is in limited production).

In addition, due to the programmatic requirements of this effort, we can only award to the Original Equipment Manufacture (OEM); in this case its Sig Sauer. The OEM (Sig Sauer) must provide New Equipment Training (for both Operators and Engineers/Technicians), Parts Replacement Schedule, sustainment etc… Sig Sauer is the only vendor who can fulfill the programmatic requirements because they are the sole owner the Intellectual Property (IP) and the technical data package of the Sig Sauer Rattler system."


https://sam.gov/opp/0497b64a90ca4963a86d86df826d9281/view

[LowSpeed_HighDrag]

Whoever runs SIG's gov contract department is a genius.

[Slater]

Maybe SOCOM had it's eye on the Rattler from the beginning. They just had to go through the whole competitive process.

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

Whoever runs SIG's gov contract department is a genius.

My theory is they have an extremely attractive lady whose head runs like a paint shaker

[AndyLate]

The notice of intent was signed by Marvin the Marcian.

Is a commercial firearm adopted by the military a weapon of war?

Andy

[Slater]

The notice of intent was signed by Marvin the Marcian.

Is a commercial firearm adopted by the military a weapon of war?

Andy

Possibly. The various commercial shotguns (Mossberg 500, Remington 870, Ithaca 37, etc.) were used in warfare. With some modifications, generally.

[flenna]

Sig must have a huge hookers and blow budget and know exactly where to spend it.

[pag23]

Whoever runs SIG's gov contract department is a genius.

GBRS group pushes SIG P320s hard in their training videos. Maybe a good thing or a cash thing

[202]

The barrels are too short, particularly on the 5.56 model.

[C-grunt]

Hasnt SOCOM been using Rattlers for a while now?

[BoringGuy45]

I'm betting that the Spear ends up getting relegated to a DMR role and the 5.56 Virtus ends up replacing the M4 as the main service rifle.

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

I'm betting that the Spear ends up getting relegated to a DMR role and the 5.56 Virtus ends up replacing the M4 as the main service rifle.

I don't doubt it since they replaced the Beretta with the SIG 320 for very little benefit. Current Army procurement has gotten crazy

[Wake27]

I don't doubt it since they replaced the Beretta with the SIG 320 for very little benefit. Current Army procurement has gotten crazy

A very recent PM aside, I actually think the M17 is a big upgrade in shootability for most Soldiers over the M9. Also I don't know how likely it is that stuff goes from SOCOM to big Army. There is tons of SOF peculiar equipment that could make sense for the rest of the force but things are often kept in their separate buckets.

[Aries144]

I'm betting that the Spear ends up getting relegated to a DMR role and the 5.56 Virtus ends up replacing the M4 as the main service rifle.

I hope not. The MCX/Virtus pioneered some interesting ways to increase parts life, improve ease of maintenance, and allow use of a folding stock, but it did so at a significant weight gain over an AR15 and the elimination one of the AR15's best protections against some types of debris ingress: the direct gas system, and specifically the way it vents from the part of the bolt carrier exposed by the ejection port.

Honestly, I see this as a victory for SIG as a company more than a victory for the US Army of the absolute best design possible. They have created a design sufficiently different to patent and have sold that design to a large buyer.

Regarding the 6.8x51 weapon, if you could sacrifice the folding stock I believe you could adapt very similar parts life changes to an AR10 and have a weapon of lighter weight, and superior reliability.

[Slater]

SIG sold something like 240,000 716i's to the Indian military, so they've scored some success on the foreign market as well.

[WillieThom]

GBRS group pushes SIG P320s hard in their training videos. Maybe a good thing or a cash thing

According to them, Blue’s shooters are actually running Sig 320s instead of Glocks. Who knows…

[BoringGuy45]

I hope not. The MCX/Virtus pioneered some interesting ways to increase parts life, improve ease of maintenance, and allow use of a folding stock, but it did so at a significant weight gain over an AR15 and the elimination one of the AR15's best protections against some types of debris ingress: the direct gas system, and specifically the way it vents from the part of the bolt carrier exposed by the ejection port.

Honestly, I see this as a victory for SIG as a company more than a victory for the US Army of the absolute best design possible. They have created a design sufficiently different to patent and have sold that design to a large buyer.

Regarding the 6.8x51 weapon, if you could sacrifice the folding stock I believe you could adapt very similar parts life changes to an AR10 and have a weapon of lighter weight, and superior reliability.

Honestly, I'm willing to give the MCX a chance. I highly doubt that they'll ever get it to be as light as an equal sized AR. But, I am willing to bet that they'll find ways to shave off weight from the system to get closer, perhaps getting it under 7 lbs.

As far as reliability goes, it seems that most tests and battlefield reports have shown that most quality modern rifles are pretty close overall in terms of their ability to operate with little maintenance and in adverse conditions. All have their strengths and weaknesses.

When I first handled the first generation of the MCX, I was lukewarm on it; It was lighter than I expected, but the trigger sucked, the metal stock was uncomfortable, the handguard was ugly and still using Keymod when it was clear that that system was dying and the MLOK was going to be the new standard, and I hated how the BCG was field stripped. I remember that many SMEs had reservations about the potential ceiling of the MCX. However, since then, Sig has fixed pretty much every one of of my gripes about the MCX, and the worries of the SMEs were proven to be either wrong or overblown after the kinks were worked out of it. I think there's some potential in the design to be an excellent rifle worthy of being our service rifle. Time will tell.

[SteyrAUG]

I hope not. The MCX/Virtus pioneered some interesting ways to increase parts life, improve ease of maintenance, and allow use of a folding stock, but it did so at a significant weight gain over an AR15 and the elimination one of the AR15's best protections against some types of debris ingress: the direct gas system, and specifically the way it vents from the part of the bolt carrier exposed by the ejection port.

Honestly, I see this as a victory for SIG as a company more than a victory for the US Army of the absolute best design possible. They have created a design sufficiently different to patent and have sold that design to a large buyer.

Regarding the 6.8x51 weapon, if you could sacrifice the folding stock I believe you could adapt very similar parts life changes to an AR10 and have a weapon of lighter weight, and superior reliability.

Karma, SIG lost to Beretta in the XM9 trials because the SIG package was a few dollars more than the Beretta package. I'm just stunned that Colt, and to a lesser extent KAC, are somehow dropping the ball and losing all these contracts to SIG. It would bother me less if it meant SIG returned to make serious business firearms.

[1168]

A very recent PM aside, I actually think the M17 is a big upgrade in shootability for most Soldiers over the M9. despite some of my observations, I think this is true. I saw a young Soldier shoot an expert qual score a few days ago. She wears an XS glove and it was her first day shooting a pistol, ever. I don’t think I ever saw that with a M9. The striker and smaller grip seems to help novices. People with L glove sizes can cope with a smaller grip better than an XS can reach the trigger on a M9 for a DA pull. I’m cautiously optimistic that the pistol program will work out well in the end. Although personally I would have made a different choice that had already been accepted in the DoD and had passed troop trials, and I think ****ery was afoot in the trials/competition.

[mack7.62]

Wait I thought the 6.8 Spear was going to replace everything why waste money on these?

[markm]

Further deterioration of American Exceptionalism.

[Slater]

The M1 carbine was conceived as a PDW. A little long and bulky for today's environment, though. :D

[TMS951]

I think what Sig has mastered is not making an exceptional firearm. But making a mediocre one that just meets requirements and is bid lower than anyone else. How do they bid so low? To me it seems like QC and QA suffer as their cost cutting measure.

[Alpha-17]

Wait I thought the 6.8 Spear was going to replace everything why waste money on these?

Completely different organizations and intended roles. No matter what Big Army does, SOCOM tends to do its own thing.