View Full Version : The best AR in the history of the world needs a friend
Eurodriver
05-30-22, 07:25
I built this about 2 years ago and have 2500~ rounds through it. It is lightweight, 100% reliable, extremely accurate, and very durable. It has gone in my Eberlestock pack many times. Been in the rain and never developed any rust. Bounced around in side by sides and has never lost zero. It’s boringly simple to use and a great companion for the woods and training classes.
I’ve listed below the specs and why I chose each part. I’m now looking for a 16” cousin of this rifle. I’d like it to have similar themes (lightweight, simple, accurate) but would like more barrel length and maybe a magnified optic (NX8? Vortex 1-10?) using new and “more better” products. I didn’t want to make 15 different threads in the optics, suppressor, NV, etc forums so I’m consolidating it here.
Should I just make the same rifle again except use a 16” barrel and longer rail? Open to all advice.
Centurion Arms 10.3” CHF Barrel - I wanted as short as possible while still maintaining reliability in a quality barrel that was gassed appropriately. Centurion checked all those boxes.
AAC Mini 4 w/ AAC FH - I know there are better cans out these days but I liked it and it works. I have no “tooth wobble”
Gemtech Suppressed BC with BCM Bolt - The juice isn’t worth the squeeze with the Gemtech Supp Carrier but it does help a bit with felt recoil and gas. If I didn’t already have it, this gun would’ve ran a milspec phosphate carrier.
BCM Mk2 Upper - Generally not a fan of new things, but BCM has been pretty good testing their stuff out before releasing ir. I don’t see the benefit this upper has over a traditional upper (all else being equal) but I like it.
BCM Complete Lower - Reliable. Quality parts. Springs that won’t rust. Decent trigger. Good ergonomics.
BAD Safety Lever & Seekins Bolt Release - I chose these two over the factory pieces because they are less prone to rust due to being aluminum. The bigger paddle makes for more reliable reloads also.
Aimpoint Comp M5 in a Scalarworks mount - By far and away the best red dot combo on the market. Lightweight. Durable. Great battery life. Crystal clear dot. See through lens covers. I would have compromised on any other feature of this rifle before I changed the optic. It’s perfect.
FP DBAL i2 with LEAF sight - I experimented a lot with lasers. MAWL. ATPIAL-C. FP ATPIAL. The Civ MAWL is ok. The illuminator is great but I kept losing the dot in thick brush. The ATPIAL C and other traditional lasers have a joke of an illuminator. The FP ATPIAL is great and got me through OIF but for some reason they command a huge premium over the DBALs even though the DBALs have cleaner illumination in my experience. So I got the DBAL.
Magpul MBUS Pro rear sight - I’ve been a fan of Troys since I got my first AR. But I’ve had problems with rust on the screw head and they decided to hire Dale Monroe. Magpul moved to Wyoming because they have values. That matters to me. The rear sight is great too and doesn’t rust.
Aimpoint Twist Base - For TNVC PVS14 mount
Surefire M300 & Arisaka MLOK Mount - Great light. Lightweight. Simply designed mount.
BCM 9” MLOK Rail & Rail Covers & VFG - Lightweight. Strong. Simple. Great ergonomics. Rail covers do an “ok” job at dissipating heat for their weight and footprint.
https://i.ibb.co/ZMrLmHH/66621-A22-AEC9-4-AC3-AA40-E32-F37-A476-F6.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/bQVWf82/BB60-DBDD-96-E4-4675-A997-5151-FE3-E02-E8.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/MnNDCPL/9-AC9-FAE9-0-E63-468-F-9-AEE-196-DD603512-A.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/hyGZSqk/EC1-A00-F3-3-EB6-46-FA-891-F-6-A3-E110-D78-A2.jpg
Yeah, maybe just go with a 16” clone of that with a LPVO. The Vortex Razor is good, as is the PA PLx. I like the 2nd Gen Razor more than the 3rd. If you don’t mind low power, the old model Steiner 1-4 is GTG. ACOGs are still viable. I’m not enough of a scope snob to have further recommendations.
There’s a lot of good barrels out there these days. Centurion is highly regarded. Criterion is good, etc.
Maybe an aftermarket trigger like a Larue, but if you’ve mastered a “Milspec” one, no worries. In that case, you just need an upper, not a gun.
YHM or Rex Silentium can. Bootleg BC if not using the can full-time, BRT gas tube if its full-time.
The Mk2 receiver isn’t worth the squeeze, IMO. I like mine. I think standard ones are good, too.
Also consider a KAC URX4 handguard. Lightweight, solid, not overly skinny. Magpul Type 2 rail covers. A handful of those come with the rail, along with MBUS.
Questions:
Do you intend to shoot outdoors with white light ever, or IR only?
What sort of barrel profile are you considering?
Will this be a carrying around gun, or a bipod gun that sometimes goes in the Vehicle, Wheeled, Lightweight, Homesteading?
You have video proof that you can outshoot me any day of the week, so maybe you want something stiffer like a Criterion CORE, but I’m a fan of pencil barrels. This would keep the weight down with a quality barrel. Then pair it with a head spaced BCM bolt.
https://criterionbarrels.com/products/ar-15/pencil-contour-ar-15-barrel/
Besides that, I’m interested in reading others’ suggestions, as well as noting what you already like.
Nice set up!
Similarly I have a 11.5 SOLGW with a Vortex Spar Solar and a Vortex Mini 3X magnifier thats very nimble, light, and accurate.
All of Geissele’s 16” Super Duty rifles are still in stock, any opposition to just getting one of those? It probably won’t be light but I don’t know that it’ll be heavy either.
I like my Gen III razor but I’ve settled on always having an offset RDS paired with an LPVO at the moment FWIW.
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I’d hit the easy button and get a 16” KAC SR15 upper and put a Razor Gen2 1-6 on it.
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I would just build a clone of the original and have both :-)
I would just build a clone of the original and have both :-)
This....makes things easy
All of Geissele’s 16” Super Duty rifles are still in stock, any opposition to just getting one of those? It probably won’t be light but I don’t know that it’ll be heavy either.
I like my Gen III razor but I’ve settled on always having an offset RDS paired with an LPVO at the moment FWIW.
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I have enjoyed enormous success with my G rifle and they are on 20% off Memorial Day sale. I think I paid just under $1,600 for mine, which is a great price IMHO.
I concur the NF1-8 is sweet or the Vortex would be fine. Ive not run the vortex. Too many good cans to mention.
PB
Coal Dragger
05-30-22, 18:50
Easy button options depending on budget and availability:
1.) KAC SR-15 E3 Mod 2 16” bbl.
2.) Geissele Super Duty 16” bbl.
Those two come to mind for running barrel profiles that are sensible and keep weight to a minimum while still offering good performance. My SR-15 has made first round hits without issue out to 552 yards (haven’t had the opportunity to push out beyond that).
I am sure there are other options out there.
Building a 16” clone of Euro’s current blaster would also undoubtedly work.
The optic I would choose hands down would be the Nightforce NX-8 1-8X24, first because I am a NF fan boy after having an old NXS 3.5-15X50 survive a 15’ fall out of a tree stand and still hold zero (rifle hit so hard it cracked the synthetic stock in half), and because it’s very light for what it offers. I personally don’t think the weight gain to go to a 1-10 is worthwhile considering the practical capabilities of the 5.56 NATO, an extra 2X magnification comes at a cost of about 1/2 a pound of extra weight to lug around. I’ll pass on that for a carbine.
I have enjoyed enormous success with my G rifle and they are on 20% off Memorial Day sale. I think I paid just under $1,600 for mine, which is a great price IMHO.
I concur the NF1-8 is sweet or the Vortex would be fine. Ive not run the vortex. Too many good cans to mention.
PB
Your posts have helped push me over the edge with trying a full G setup, I have an 11.5 pistol showing up to the FFL on Wednesday hopefully.
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Hammer_Man
05-30-22, 20:38
I vote 16” clone of what you currently have. Centurion CHF light weight barrel, 13” BCM MCMR handguard, everything else the same. I prefer most 1-6 scopes over most of the 1-10 scopes due to the friendlier eye box on the former. That being said, if you plan to run NV it might be just as good to get another Comp M5.
Coal Dragger
05-30-22, 22:49
Gotta say that so far I am a fan of my Comp M5, it's on a Geissele Super Precision on top of my 16" KAC SR-15 right now because it's the lightest weight M4 pattern in my stable and I wanted the most simple to use setup possible in case the wife needed to use it.
Other than magnification for positive target ID, the glass and dot in the Comp M5 are so damn good that shooting out to any reasonable distance is possible, as long as you can ID the target. Since I'm a civilian now, I am going to have a tough time justifying whacking some "baddie" beyond 200 yards who isn't actively shooting at me so for that purpose I don't "need" magnification.
Johnny Rico
05-31-22, 08:55
Why does your AR want a friend? To expand your capabilities or do you want something that's easier to travel with?
I am typically one to more so build an AR.
That said for Christmas I purchased a geissele super duty and I have been super happy with it.
Ricardo China
05-31-22, 22:04
Well, since you are happy with your setup, do everything again and chance just the barrel.
Oh, and a PST 1-6 is just fine
Eurodriver
06-01-22, 11:10
I’m kind of pissed I didn’t jump on the Geissele sale.
I’ve decided to just mirror this gun in 16” form with BCM - unfortunately I haven’t seen any Mk2 Complete uppers for sale anywhere.
Are they for sale anywhere? What about complete rifles? 16” ELW BFH MCMR would be preferred.
I was going to vote for you to use an 18" Criterion Core barrel to keep LW properties, but otherwise mirror the first build. My thoughts mirror yours concerning the Mk2 upper receiver.
You won't have it long Euro...
‘Strongest gun control measures’ in a generation in Canada would put freeze on handguns on top of ban, buyback of assault rifles
https://www.masslive.com/news/2022/05/strongest-gun-control-measures-in-a-generation-in-canada-would-put-freeze-on-handguns-on-top-of-ban-buyback-of-assault-rifles.html
A couple thoughts I have:
You could get a SS barrel (rainier ultralight match)and a 1-8/10 if you want a little more accuracy/distance, though the centurion barrels are very nice.
If you dont need that much magnification, have you tried/considered a magnifier and duplicating the optic setup you have currently?
I’m kind of pissed I didn’t jump on the Geissele sale.
I’ve decided to just mirror this gun in 16” form with BCM - unfortunately I haven’t seen any Mk2 Complete uppers for sale anywhere.
Are they for sale anywhere? What about complete rifles? 16” ELW BFH MCMR would be preferred.
Geiselle might have a 4th of July sale.....
Geiselle might have a 4th of July sale.....
IIRC, 4th of July and Black Friday are their biggest sales. I wasn't even sure if they were going to have a Memorial Day sale.
Euro, MK2s haven't been available for quite some time. I'm not even sure if they had more than one run. They do pop up used every now and then though, I actually just got a barely used BFH ELW 14.5 MK2 last week.
Geiselle might have a 4th of July sale.....
I was just going to say this.
I think it’s well worth the short wait. Especially since they have actually had tons of rifles I stock for these sales.
That and the BCM euro wants isn’t available anyway.
Eurodriver
06-02-22, 12:53
I was just going to say this.
I think it’s well worth the short wait. Especially since they have actually had tons of rifles I stock for these sales.
That and the BCM euro wants isn’t available anyway.
Cool ill wait for July 4th.
Coal Dragger
06-02-22, 14:03
That's a good idea..... I do wish that Geissele made a 12.5" though.
I was just going to say this.
I think it’s well worth the short wait. Especially since they have actually had tons of rifles I stock for these sales.
That and the BCM euro wants isn’t available anyway.
Between you, Wake and Pappabear..I really don't need another AR...lol
That's a good idea..... I do wish that Geissele made a 12.5" though.
GACS commented on a thread in his industry subforum on TOS asking what length rail and CH people would want on a 12.5. Weird question considering all of the SDs are setup the same way but I’m hoping it was meant as a hint.
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Eurodriver
06-03-22, 14:25
Im debating the following:
Cloning the above rifle - It’s about $1045 for the upper and $425 for the lower OTD. $1460 only difference would be a 16” ELW barrel 13” MLOK rail and non Mk2 upper
Geissele Super duty (if they come back for $1580). Good trigger. Good components. Light weight. What is the new coating on their barrels though?
Colt EPR - Known quantity. Only a few ounces heavier than the Geissele. I have a spare ALG trigger for it.
I just bought a Colt OEM1 for $735. The OEM1 and OEM2 appear to be a good starting point if a person does not want to do a full custom build.
Im debating the following:
Cloning the above rifle - It’s about $1045 for the upper and $425 for the lower OTD. $1460 only difference would be a 16” ELW barrel 13” MLOK rail and non Mk2 upper
Geissele Super duty (if they come back for $1580). Good trigger. Good components. Light weight. What is the new coating on their barrels though?
Colt EPR - Known quantity. Only a few ounces heavier than the Geissele. I have a spare ALG trigger for it.
The trigger on the G is fantastic, as is their ACH. The new barrel coating (black oxide) apparently went away after lots of complaints, supposedly is back to phosphate now. The BCM will be lighter than the G, both the MK16 and G barrel are a bit heavier than the BCM offerings. But at least, unlike the Colt, both BCM and G have better barrel profiles. The Geissele barrel will likely outshoot the BCM though, and be better gassed. I haven’t been bothered by gas on either of my BCMs but I have a QDC which is pretty a low back pressure can anyways.
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Eurodriver
06-03-22, 16:17
The trigger on the G is fantastic, as is their ACH. The new barrel coating (black oxide) apparently went away after lots of complaints, supposedly is back to phosphate now. The BCM will be lighter than the G, both the MK16 and G barrel are a bit heavier than the BCM offerings. But at least, unlike the Colt, both BCM and G have better barrel profiles. The Geissele barrel will likely outshoot the BCM though, and be better gassed. I haven’t been bothered by gas on either of my BCMs but I have a QDC which is pretty a low back pressure can anyways.
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For an occifer you are very helpful. Thank you.
I think I am set on the G, my only apprehension is whether or not they will come back in stock and on sale at a reasonable price again sometime soon. I should've jumped on the advice when it was posted in this thread.
I just bought a Colt OEM1 for $735. The OEM1 and OEM2 appear to be a good starting point if a person does not want to do a full custom build.
Oh man Im seeing OEM2s for $750-800. That's a deal because you're still under $1100 with furniture and rail. That's a big savings from the G even on sale.
Given the choice between a BCM and a Geissele for $120 more.....well, that's not really the case. The Geissele has a far superior trigger assembly, likely a better barrel (though not as light as an ELW BCM), stronger MK16 rail, bomb-proof gas block installation, Airborne charging handle, and all of this is basically free.
This must be another trolling attempt, cause you're not new to this game, so none of this info should be news to you.
Given the choice between a BCM and a Geissele for $120 more.....well, that's not really the case. The Geissele has a far superior trigger assembly, likely a better barrel (though not as light as an ELW BCM), stronger MK16 rail, bomb-proof gas block installation, Airborne charging handle, and all of this is basically free.
This must be another trolling attempt, cause you're not new to this game, so none of this info should be news to you.
Eurodriver
06-03-22, 16:38
Given the choice between a BCM and a Geissele for $120 more.....well, that's not really the case. The Geissele has a far superior trigger assembly, likely a better barrel (though not as light as an ELW BCM), stronger MK16 rail, bomb-proof gas block installation, Airborne charging handle, and all of this is basically free.
This must be another trolling attempt, cause you're not new to this game, so none of this info should be news to you.
Do you work for Geissele? Involved in his .mil contracts in some way?
"Bomb proof" gas block installation is meaningless - that's a marketing term. I've been shooting BCM ARs since 2010 and I have never had a gas block move. In fact, I've stripped hex keys trying to remove ones that I deliberately tried to remove.
Airborne charging handle < BCM Mod4B which was included in the price above
BCM PNT = Whatever Trigger Geissele puts in their guns. I prefer a single stage in an AR.
I agree with you on the barrel (although I have no experience with G guns) that BCMs have generally not shot as well as other brands.
I've ran over a Magpul MOE handguard on a Colt 6920 (and posted the video here, in fact) with a Toyota 4Runner. I don't think there is much in the "Stronger" rail argument when plastic does just fine.
So no - not trolling here. I do have some allegiance to Paul B as he's a Marine and I've used his products without fail for over a decade - but I'm also trying not to be ignorant and not go with something better just because I'm afraid of change.
Eurodriver
06-03-22, 16:38
Given the choice between a BCM and a Geissele for $120 more.....well, that's not really the case. The Geissele has a far superior trigger assembly, likely a better barrel (though not as light as an ELW BCM), stronger MK16 rail, bomb-proof gas block installation, Airborne charging handle, and all of this is basically free.
This must be another trolling attempt, cause you're not new to this game, so none of this info should be news to you.
Do you work for Geissele? Involved in his .mil contracts in some way?
"Bomb proof" gas block installation is meaningless - that's a marketing term. I've been shooting BCM ARs since 2010 and I have never had a gas block move. In fact, I've stripped hex keys trying to remove ones that I deliberately tried to remove.
Airborne charging handle < BCM Mod4B which was included in the price above
BCM PNT = Whatever Trigger Geissele puts in their guns. I prefer a single stage in an AR.
I agree with you on the barrel (although I have no experience with G guns) that BCMs have generally not shot as well as other brands.
I've ran over a Magpul MOE handguard on a Colt 6920 (and posted the video here, in fact) with a Toyota 4Runner. I don't think there is much in the "Stronger" rail argument when plastic does just fine.
So no - not trolling here. I do have some allegiance to Paul B as he's a Marine and I've used his products without fail for over a decade - but I'm also trying not to be ignorant and not go with something better just because I'm afraid of change.
Im debating the following:
Cloning the above rifle - It’s about $1045 for the upper and $425 for the lower OTD. $1460 only difference would be a 16” ELW barrel 13” MLOK rail and non Mk2 upper
Geissele Super duty (if they come back for $1580). Good trigger. Good components. Light weight. What is the new coating on their barrels though?
Colt EPR - Known quantity. Only a few ounces heavier than the Geissele. I have a spare ALG trigger for it.
Do the Geissele. You won't have to wonder if you could have done better.
Do you work for Geissele? Involved in his .mil contracts in some way?
"Bomb proof" gas block installation is meaningless - that's a marketing term. I've been shooting BCM ARs since 2010 and I have never had a gas block move. In fact, I've stripped hex keys trying to remove ones that I deliberately tried to remove.
Airborne charging handle < BCM Mod4B which was included in the price above
BCM PNT = Whatever Trigger Geissele puts in their guns. I prefer a single stage in an AR.
I agree with you on the barrel (although I have no experience with G guns) that BCMs have generally not shot as well as other brands.
I've ran over a Magpul MOE handguard on a Colt 6920 (and posted the video here, in fact) with a Toyota 4Runner. I don't think there is much in the "Stronger" rail argument when plastic does just fine.
So no - not trolling here. I do have some allegiance to Paul B as he's a Marine and I've used his products without fail for over a decade - but I'm also trying not to be ignorant and not go with something better just because I'm afraid of change.
So I've actually sold both of my KAC Mod 2 uppers and a high end custom Hodge barreled upper uppers because BCMs have always done everything I've needed and then some and for a hell of a lot less money. At full price, I would've stuck with BCM. However with their sale price, I wanted to see for myself. Another option if you don't mind spending a bit more but want it sooner, is to find someone with a 30% off coupon. That's actually what I did on TACSWAP and I bought my 11.5 with that a day or two before the Memorial Day sale was announced. I think it was a 5% savings that I missed out on and I paid maybe $30 for the coupon but that still puts this rifle at a hell of a competitive price.
Nope, I don't work for Geissele, or any other manufacturer.
I've never had a BCM gas block come loose either, but that doesn't change the fact that a pinned gas block is more secure than one utilizing set screws. My old Mark 12's block is pinned, but it's the exception.
The BCM charging handle wasn't specified, so I presumed it'd come with a basic one, and it's hard to not improve on that. I've never used an Airborne, but have a few others.
You may prefer a single stage trigger, and that's cool. You can sell the G-trigger and use the funds to buy a PNT or whatever makes you happy.
MOE handguards don't get nearly as much respect as they deserve. I've got 3 ARs with them, and don't expect that number to decrease. Surviving an encounter with an SUV isn't what I was referencing. BCM's KeyMod and M-LOK handguards are well known to be weaker than other handguards, but they're also typically lighter than others, so that's to be somewhat expected.
Please continue troll posting....it's more entertaining than a lot of the other threads here.
One post with that info is enough.....no need to duplicate it.
I just bought a Colt OEM1 for $735. The OEM1 and OEM2 appear to be a good starting point if a person does not want to do a full custom build.
Hey brother, post that stuff in Stickman’s forum in the good deals thread. I think I paid $725 for mine years ago and would again.
Eurodriver
06-04-22, 14:11
One post with that info is enough.....no need to duplicate it.
I appreciate that you think I know so much about the AR world - all its brands, variants, components, etc that by asking a question I must be trolling. I’m quite flattered, frankly.
Geissele July 4th sale:
Yep, and it'll be %30 off unless something changes from previous years. Can't beat those prices; a lot of sellers complain that Bill undercuts them, but their loss is our gain.
Euro: I'll echo Papabear with the Geissele endorsement. The BCM would be fine if you want identical twins, other than the barrel and gas system. The advantage of buying the whole rifle is they use a Plus x gas system, and index tabs you can't get with their other ala carte stuff. They just made the Lightning Bow trigger available, but for a crazy price that only makes sense under one of the "good" sales, such as the upcoming July 4th one. Other benefits include the nanocoated BCG that again is crazy expensive by itself. Overall, the package deal on Super is a good value if you're interested in trying out the Geissele secret sauce of shooting stuff. It shoots as good as I can, and no doubt better in more capable hands. Papabear sums it up in his posts on the Geissele threads. I use BCM furniture, but that's the end of my experience with that brand. Another rifle, or upper that would ride in that class is the KAC Mod 2 M-LOK. It's 6.5 lbs of the best you can get.
I doubt you'll be happy with one you didn't build yourself. That version 1 is a hell of a rifle, and while you can't get more bomb-proof than a top shelf manufacturer, you can likely get as bomb-proof, and you'll get exactly what you know works with your style.
fedupflyer
06-04-22, 16:25
Look at something with a Wydle chamber ...
I will most likely pick up a Rainer Arms Super Match barrel this summer. I have heard good things about them but do not currently own one.
I wished I could lay my hands on another Strong Side Tactical barrel but I think it was a one time thing. That barrel cut the groups in half with factory 223 55g.
Oh man Im seeing OEM2s for $750-800. That's a deal because you're still under $1100 with furniture and rail. That's a big savings from the G even on sale.
I would get the OEM2 and pull the barrel (more on this later). Add the barrel of your choice, I prefer lightweight and middy gas. You seem happy with your current set up so use a BCM handguard. Avoid getting a longer handguard than you need.
Next, get that 6920 barrel cut to 10.5” but don’t open the gas port. Once you have shot a dedicated suppressed barrel you won’t want to go back.
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