View Full Version : Do you run your BCM VFG backwards?
Eurodriver
06-12-22, 21:21
If so, why?
It feels incredibly unnatural to me and the guys who do it seem to have some sort of ego issues because they constantly talk about how awesome it is to run them backwards
I figured they do that to force their hand as high as possible while using it more as a modified hand stop. I've never tried it.
titsonritz
06-12-22, 22:13
Which direction is backwards?
Which direction is backwards?
Angled forward, I think.
I've never tried it. IMO it looks weird, and I can't help but think I would find it uncomfortable.
Guys worry about this shit and it's analogous to "do these shoes go with this purse."
The times when it actually makes any kind of meaningful difference will be a rare occurrence that won't happen to most of us.
If your shooting performance demands a specialized VFG configuration, you should probably worry about that less and shoot more. Same as all those Costa grip guys who think a "shooting style" is going to elevate them to jedi level skills. The reality is Costa shoots well enough he can even do it with some very unconventional holds and it won't make a difference. The guy can probably wrap around and do a 3 o clock hold and school most shooters.
OutofBatt3ry
06-12-22, 22:41
Guys worry about this shit and it's analogous to "do these shoes go with this purse."
Yes...why does OP care how other people setup their gun? Let folks do what they want...Are you training with them? Is their backward grip causing fire, so inaccurate, that you might want to speak up? Probably not.
It's all good. Something, something, same team.
Eurodriver
06-13-22, 08:07
Yes...why does OP care how other people setup their gun? Let folks do what they want...Are you training with them? Is their backward grip causing fire, so inaccurate, that you might want to speak up? Probably not.
It's all good. Something, something, same team.
Maybe I wasn’t clear.
They give a shit that *I* am not running it backwards.
They are the ones constantly trolling at matches saying “Join the backwards team!” “Only faggots use their VFGs the right way”
I wanted to know what the deal was and if I was missing out since they seem so passionate about it.
I've tried it both ways. I kinda expected to like it angled forwards since I quite like the similarly angled grip on Romanian AKs, but for some reason, it never sticks. To each their own. Can't say I've ever seen anyone trolling about how a gun is set up, but ignoring them and running it in the way that seems best for you would seem to be a good response.
My TD relieves me of the misery of self doubt.
“Only faggots use their VFGs the right way”
There's irony in a match fag calling someone a faggot.
Eurodriver
06-13-22, 10:12
There's irony in a match fag calling someone a faggot.
Its incredible. I beat them 100 times out of 100 and they still talk mad shit.
Upon googling it, apparently theres like a huge fanbase of people who run it backwards.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ar15/comments/cg15ib/backwards_bcm_vfg_is_life/
https://www.reddit.com/r/ar15/comments/lie63h/back_on_the_backwards_foregrip_bandwagon/
https://www.reddit.com/r/ar15/comments/ohne35/bcm_grip_forward_gang_or_backward_gang/
Of course they are probably just a bunch of idiots who care more for IG likes than impacts, but I try to stay open to new ideas in order to remain proficient.
Its incredible. I beat them 100 times out of 100 and they still talk mad shit.
Upon googling it, apparently theres like a huge fanbase of people who run it backwards.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ar15/comments/cg15ib/backwards_bcm_vfg_is_life/
https://www.reddit.com/r/ar15/comments/lie63h/back_on_the_backwards_foregrip_bandwagon/
https://www.reddit.com/r/ar15/comments/ohne35/bcm_grip_forward_gang_or_backward_gang/
Of course they are probably just a bunch of idiots who care more for IG likes than impacts, but I try to stay open to new ideas in order to remain proficient.
Reddit is full of ADD grade trendy bullshit. The EE is good, though. I don’t prefer VGs in general except on very short guns, but when I use them I do it the normal non-AK way. Or use one that is actually vertical.
Frankly I never knew that was backwards.
I run them, backwards, on a couple 14.5” guns and a couple AKs.
For me, it’s simply easier to lock the support hand in.
I've tried it both ways. I kinda expected to like it angled forwards since I quite like the similarly angled grip on Romanian AKs, but for some reason, it never sticks. To each their own. Can't say I've ever seen anyone trolling about how a gun is set up, but ignoring them and running it in the way that seems best for you would seem to be a good response.
Yep. Same here, figured I’d like it angled forward because of my previous experience with the Romy AK foregrip but the BCM always felt most “correct” when angled rearward so that’s how I settled on using them.
Of course now I’m sort of getting away from VFGs on ARs entirely. For awhile I was putting them on everything but now the only ARs I still have them on are a couple of carbines that also permanently wear lights with tail cap switches.
titsonritz
06-13-22, 12:09
My TD relieves me of the misery of self doubt.
Yeah, but is it the stubby?
titsonritz
06-13-22, 12:12
Frankly I never knew that was backwards.
I run them, backwards, on a couple 14.5” guns and a couple AKs.
For me, it’s simply easier to lock the support hand in.
Kind of my original point, I thought it was designed/intended to be reversible to suit individual preference, but what do I know.
Yeah, but is it the stubby?
Stubby QD, now I have a gnawing doubt, at least it's vertical lol.
the guys who do it seem to have some sort of ego issues because they constantly talk about how awesome it is to run them backwards
Who specifically said this? Please post a link.
I run mine at 3 o'clock....gangsta style...lol
Back to topic....I run mine angled forward but I can see those who run it backwards might like it as a handstop
Five_Point_Five_Six
06-13-22, 17:13
It's 2022 and dudes are really out here making multi-directional vertical foregrips their whole personality.
FWIW I run mine with the angle sloping rearward.
Hammer_Man
06-13-22, 18:22
I think we’re not addressing the real issue here. Can these be mounted with a Colt grip screw? If so, I want to purchase a complete Colt 6920, so I can rob the grip screw from it. Which model 6920 do you guys think would work best for this?
Eurodriver
06-13-22, 19:06
Who specifically said this? Please post a link.
1) I literally already did
2) I can’t post a link to what happens in real life l, but if you prefer I can include screenshots of group chats.
Eurodriver
06-13-22, 19:09
It's 2022 and dudes are really out here making multi-directional vertical foregrips their whole personality.
FWIW I run mine with the angle sloping rearward.
It’s crazy man. Social media has made the gun industry super retarded.
I love showing up to matches where no one knows me and spanking everyone - and I’m not even that good!
Maybe I wasn’t clear.
They give a shit that *I* am not running it backwards.
They are the ones constantly trolling at matches saying “Join the backwards team!” “Only faggots use their VFGs the right way”
I wanted to know what the deal was and if I was missing out since they seem so passionate about it.
Care "less." Shoot your rifle, try and be better in 6 months than you are now. That is the only person you are actually competing against, "they" aren't gonna be there if you ever need to use your weapon. Your VFG is probably the least important factor related to being better than you are in 6 months than you are now. You can probably remove it completely and it won't matter very much.
There's irony in a match fag calling someone a faggot.
So much this. The phrase "gear queer" exists for a reason.
Its incredible. I beat them 100 times out of 100 and they still talk mad shit.
Then you can safely ignore them completely. The only problem I see is that you care.
Five_Point_Five_Six
06-13-22, 20:19
It’s crazy man. Social media has made the gun industry super retarded.
I love showing up to matches where no one knows me and spanking everyone - and I’m not even that good!
It's both a blessing and a curse. Example. My nephew's buddy text me a while back asking me how hard it would be to change the 11.5" barrel in his BCM upper to a Proof Research carbon barrel. Now, I've seen this kid shoot. He doesn't need a Proof Research carbon barrel, he needs 3 or 4 more cases of ammo and a training class. I had to finish zeroing his red dot at 50 yards because he was having a hard time shooting a consistent enough group to know what changes needed to be made. Turns out, he watched a GBRS video featuring DJ Shipley from back when he sill kept his face blurred and he was running a carbon fiber barrel and my nephew's buddy thought that would be the magic key to unlock the solutions to all his shooting problems.
Five_Point_Five_Six
06-14-22, 09:39
I like to think that I have at least somewhat of an open mind to the idea that I might be wrong about things once in a great while. In the interest of science and hard data that can't be questioned, I grabbed my MK18 and switched the BCM vert grip around so it's angling forward. I don't know why anyone would want to run this grip like this. Maybe my fingers and hands are too big, but I found that my pinky makes contact with the bottom of the grip but my middle and ring finger are kind of jammed in there in an awkward way and there is a dead space between them and the grip towards the top. With the grip turned around with the angle facing rearward, which is how the grip is pictured on BCM's website, my fingers are able to make solid contact with the grip.
Also, it appears that the angle of the grip is not the same on both sides. A quick and dirty check with a protractor confirms my suspicion. It's a steeper angle on the backside of the grip. Maybe it would matter less if the angles were the same, but this completely unbiased, peer reviewed scientific study concludes that there is a right and wrong way to mount the BCM vertical grip, and the correct way is as described by Euro and myself.
I shot a rifle last night with the BCM grip angled to the rear. Although I used the grip, I did not notice it as the ergonomics were natural and didn't have any reason to get my attention. I guess I could try mounting it backwards and seeing if it's "better", but I suspect I'll find myself in agreement with Five_Point's assessment.
If so, why?
It feels incredibly unnatural to me and the guys who do it seem to have some sort of ego issues because they constantly talk about how awesome it is to run them backwards
I dont think I ever gave it a thought. I just put it on.
Eurodriver
06-14-22, 10:49
I like to think that I have at least somewhat of an open mind to the idea that I might be wrong about things once in a great while. In the interest of science and hard data that can't be questioned, I grabbed my MK18 and switched the BCM vert grip around so it's angling forward. I don't know why anyone would want to run this grip like this. Maybe my fingers and hands are too big, but I found that my pinky makes contact with the bottom of the grip but my middle and ring finger are kind of jammed in there in an awkward way and there is a dead space between them and the grip towards the top. With the grip turned around with the angle facing rearward, which is how the grip is pictured on BCM's website, my fingers are able to make solid contact with the grip.
Also, it appears that the angle of the grip is not the same on both sides. A quick and dirty check with a protractor confirms my suspicion. It's a steeper angle on the backside of the grip. Maybe it would matter less if the angles were the same, but this completely unbiased, peer reviewed scientific study concludes that there is a right and wrong way to mount the BCM vertical grip, and the correct way is as described by Euro and myself.
Thank you for the forensic analysis.
I too ran into the same issue when I have picked up retarded guns - the middle fingers get jammed.
PS I have mad respect for Gaijin and if he runs it that way it is not retarded for him but him only.
I like to think that I have at least somewhat of an open mind to the idea that I might be wrong about things once in a great while. In the interest of science and hard data that can't be questioned, I grabbed my MK18 and switched the BCM vert grip around so it's angling forward. I don't know why anyone would want to run this grip like this. Maybe my fingers and hands are too big, but I found that my pinky makes contact with the bottom of the grip but my middle and ring finger are kind of jammed in there in an awkward way and there is a dead space between them and the grip towards the top. With the grip turned around with the angle facing rearward, which is how the grip is pictured on BCM's website, my fingers are able to make solid contact with the grip.
Also, it appears that the angle of the grip is not the same on both sides. A quick and dirty check with a protractor confirms my suspicion. It's a steeper angle on the backside of the grip. Maybe it would matter less if the angles were the same, but this completely unbiased, peer reviewed scientific study concludes that there is a right and wrong way to mount the BCM vertical grip, and the correct way is as described by Euro and myself.
This is my favorite reply to this thread. You win 125 cool points.
Some people like a raked forward foregrip.
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQJBpiXsTsYZXNoTwpWPol2FzbQkQO7f6iKBw&usqp=CAU
The reason the AK has it that way is so you can put more force downward and backward to resist muzzle climb in full auto.
Five_Point_Five_Six
06-14-22, 11:38
Some people like a raked forward foregrip.
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQJBpiXsTsYZXNoTwpWPol2FzbQkQO7f6iKBw&usqp=CAU
The reason the AK has it that way is so you can put more force downward and backward to resist muzzle climb in full auto.
And so it will clear the magazine during mag changes.
Its incredible. I beat them 100 times out of 100 and they still talk mad shit.
Upon googling it, apparently theres like a huge fanbase of people who run it backwards.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ar15/comments/cg15ib/backwards_bcm_vfg_is_life/
https://www.reddit.com/r/ar15/comments/lie63h/back_on_the_backwards_foregrip_bandwagon/
https://www.reddit.com/r/ar15/comments/ohne35/bcm_grip_forward_gang_or_backward_gang/
Of course they are probably just a bunch of idiots who care more for IG likes than impacts, but I try to stay open to new ideas in order to remain proficient.
Thanks for the pics, I could not figure it out. I could have a couple backwards and wouldn't know. Shit gamers worry about.
PB
titsonritz
06-14-22, 12:59
And so it will clear the magazine during mag changes.
That's what I was going to say, kinda, sorta clears. I still don't like those dongs.
I still don't like those dongs.
Best way to put it. "Dongs".
I tried my Magpul MVG backwards...It was still vertical.
Guess I can't be one of the cool kids.
Maybe backwards AFG?
Some people like a raked forward foregrip.
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQJBpiXsTsYZXNoTwpWPol2FzbQkQO7f6iKBw&usqp=CAU
The reason the AK has it that way is so you can put more force downward and backward to resist muzzle climb in full auto.
But more importantly, so they can use the SAME handguard with an underfolding stock.
I tried my Magpul MVG backwards...It was still vertical.
Guess I can't be one of the cool kids.
Maybe backwards AFG?
GO AMD 65 style and bolt on an A2 grip BACKWARDS. Hella cool and tactical.
Is this like...something....something....grip screw. Sounds like some (not here) people major in minors.
Running it backwards would seem to make it more of a handstop. Angled to the rear it is a more natural grip, right in line with the wrist.
YMMV.
GO AMD 65 style and bolt on an A2 grip BACKWARDS. Hella cool and tactical.
Hell yeah! I'm definitely doing this!
titsonritz
06-14-22, 19:31
GO AMD 65 style and bolt on an A2 grip BACKWARDS. Hella cool and tactical.
In that case, may as well go all the way and get an A.R.M.S. #23 QD Pistol Grip, maybe the gear queers can resurgent it from the dead.
In that case, may as well go all the way and get an A.R.M.S. #23 QD Pistol Grip, maybe the gear queers can resurgent it from the dead.
A2 is military BRO.
If so, why?
It feels incredibly unnatural to me and the guys who do it seem to have some sort of ego issues because they constantly talk about how awesome it is to run them backwards
I do because its cool and youre not cool unless you run it front angle like..
Not sure if angled forward is "backwards" or not due to the way it is designed. When in the forward position, comparing to their pistol grip, the BCM logo and trap door orientation matches. Of course someone could use it how ever they wish. This thread if funny. I have one on a Troy delta rail and after trying it both ways, I prefer it facing forward due to the way it positions my hand to reach the clicky switch of a forward light.
vicious_cb
06-15-22, 08:23
All of you are wrong. You need to be running your VFG backwards AND on the SIDE of the rail. Its called the Sten Grip, and has been the most effective CQB grip since WWII. We won WWII with this grip, if it was good enough for the Greatest Generation then its good enough for you. It called ancient wisdom, get some.
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thoughtco.com%2Fthmb%2FdVQB1f0tAs6b-5uj9pg5svcNHzc%3D%2F640x514%2Ffilters%3Ano_upscale()%3Amax_bytes(150000)%3Astrip_icc()%2FSten_factory_1942-d5c226b5375441a691c023a769aa04ee.jpg&f=1&nofb=1
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.imfdb.org%2Fimages%2Fthumb%2F3%2F39%2FCento_giorni_a_Palermo-Sten-2.jpg%2F600px-Cento_giorni_a_Palermo-Sten-2.jpg&f=1&nofb=1
Five_Point_Five_Six
06-15-22, 09:27
Not sure if angled forward is "backwards" or not due to the way it is designed. When in the forward position, comparing to their pistol grip, the BCM logo and trap door orientation matches. Of course someone could use it how ever they wish. This thread if funny. I have one on a Troy delta rail and after trying it both ways, I prefer it facing forward due to the way it positions my hand to reach the clicky switch of a forward light.
Your input is appreciated but science has spoken.
titsonritz
06-15-22, 14:04
All of you are wrong. You need to be running your VFG backwards AND on the SIDE of the rail. Its called the Sten Grip, and has been the most effective CQB grip since WWII. We won WWII with this grip, if it was good enough for the Greatest Generation then its good enough for you. It called ancient wisdom, get some.
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thoughtco.com%2Fthmb%2FdVQB1f0tAs6b-5uj9pg5svcNHzc%3D%2F640x514%2Ffilters%3Ano_upscale()%3Amax_bytes(150000)%3Astrip_icc()%2FSten_factory_1942-d5c226b5375441a691c023a769aa04ee.jpg&f=1&nofb=1
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.imfdb.org%2Fimages%2Fthumb%2F3%2F39%2FCento_giorni_a_Palermo-Sten-2.jpg%2F600px-Cento_giorni_a_Palermo-Sten-2.jpg&f=1&nofb=1
In that case there has to be one on both sides for shoulder transitions.
titsonritz
06-15-22, 14:04
A2 is military BRO.
Ya got me there. :lol:
Ya got me there. :lol:
Ok, gonna share some classified operator shit.
The VFG goes at 12 o clock. You grab with your non shooting hand, raise your thumb straight up and point your index finger at your target...you will now be DEAD ON. Yer welcome.
No, no, no.
The real secret is to extend the pinky finger like an Englishman drinking tea. Etquitte and proper deportment are the key to success in any endeavor dontcha know.
No, no, no.
The real secret is to extend the pinky finger like an Englishman drinking tea. Etquitte and proper deportment are the key to success in any endeavor dontcha know.
Only works on Sten Grip hold, special SAS technique you probably shouldn't even be talking about.
If so, why?
It feels incredibly unnatural to me and the guys who do it seem to have some sort of ego issues because they constantly talk about how awesome it is to run them backwards
I have never used one of those grips.... but I always use my LaRue FUG backwards. 100% of the time.
I have never used one of those grips.... but I always use my LaRue FUG backwards. 100% of the time.
I lol'ed.
I was watching Garand Thumb Sig Spear and it looked like to me the VFG was backwards, Im not 100% bc I just am not sure. Oh well, it's just a odd data point.
PB
Outlander Systems
06-18-22, 20:09
I can answer the why. DM in-bound.
If so, why?
It feels incredibly unnatural to me and the guys who do it seem to have some sort of ego issues because they constantly talk about how awesome it is to run them backwards
Sparky5019
06-20-22, 11:49
I can answer the why. DM in-bound.
Do tell…
Outlander Systems
06-21-22, 20:28
The reason for the angle in the grip, and the correlation to biomechanics is actually pretty simple. Make two karate chop hands and hold them in front of you. As you extend them, you’ll find that your wrists naturally want to angle your hands downward the further away you extend them. This is called ulnar deviation. As you bring them closer to your body, you’ll find that they start to naturally drift upward. This is called radial deviation.
If your critical homies are running their VFGs on short 7” rails with their stocks fully collapsed, running the VFG “backwards” actually makes sense from a biomechanics standpoint (radial deviation). You’ll find a similar grip angle on the Brügger and Thomet TP9, which makes sense, as it’s an extremely compact weapon system. If they’re running them backwards on longer rails, more extended outward toward the muzzle, they’re using them inversely to biomechanics, as, at this point, they would be better off working *with* the wrist’s natural tendency for ulnar drift. It sounds like they may be supinating their wrists and using the VFG incorrectly.
Radial deviation of the wrist inward (closer - Abduction)
Ulnar deviation of the wrist outward (further - Adduction)
You can also see this phenomenon by making a thumbs up with your support hand and punching it away from you and pulling it back. You’ll see the natural deviation of the wrist at work going back and forth, and the option for an angle on the BCM VFG makes a lot more sense.
Do tell…
Sparky5019
06-21-22, 20:55
All good sense from an anatomical perspective. I figured some of that was their reasoning. I honestly didn’t put THAT much mental effort into it but with my knowledge of anatomy and ergonomics it made sense. Thanks for sharing so everyone could benefit. I appreciate it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
switchback7
06-23-22, 08:58
I didnt know there was a "wrong" way ..
Adrenaline_6
06-23-22, 09:18
The reason for the angle in the grip, and the correlation to biomechanics is actually pretty simple. Make two karate chop hands and hold them in front of you. As you extend them, you’ll find that your wrists naturally want to angle your hands downward the further away you extend them. This is called ulnar deviation. As you bring them closer to your body, you’ll find that they start to naturally drift upward. This is called radial deviation.
If your critical homies are running their VFGs on short 7” rails with their stocks fully collapsed, running the VFG “backwards” actually makes sense from a biomechanics standpoint (radial deviation). You’ll find a similar grip angle on the Brügger and Thomet TP9, which makes sense, as it’s an extremely compact weapon system. If they’re running them backwards on longer rails, more extended outward toward the muzzle, they’re using them inversely to biomechanics, as, at this point, they would be better off working *with* the wrist’s natural tendency for ulnar drift. It sounds like they may be supinating their wrists and using the VFG incorrectly.
Radial deviation of the wrist inward (closer - Abduction)
Ulnar deviation of the wrist outward (further - Adduction)
You can also see this phenomenon by making a thumbs up with your support hand and punching it away from you and pulling it back. You’ll see the natural deviation of the wrist at work going back and forth, and the option for an angle on the BCM VFG makes a lot more sense.
Ahhh...real science...always refreshing.
The reason for the angle in the grip, and the correlation to biomechanics is actually pretty simple. Make two karate chop hands and hold them in front of you. As you extend them, you’ll find that your wrists naturally want to angle your hands downward the further away you extend them. This is called ulnar deviation. As you bring them closer to your body, you’ll find that they start to naturally drift upward. This is called radial deviation.
If your critical homies are running their VFGs on short 7” rails with their stocks fully collapsed, running the VFG “backwards” actually makes sense from a biomechanics standpoint (radial deviation). You’ll find a similar grip angle on the Brügger and Thomet TP9, which makes sense, as it’s an extremely compact weapon system. If they’re running them backwards on longer rails, more extended outward toward the muzzle, they’re using them inversely to biomechanics, as, at this point, they would be better off working *with* the wrist’s natural tendency for ulnar drift. It sounds like they may be supinating their wrists and using the VFG incorrectly.
Radial deviation of the wrist inward (closer - Abduction)
Ulnar deviation of the wrist outward (further - Adduction)
You can also see this phenomenon by making a thumbs up with your support hand and punching it away from you and pulling it back. You’ll see the natural deviation of the wrist at work going back and forth, and the option for an angle on the BCM VFG makes a lot more sense.
Great post with good info..
SilverBullet432
06-25-22, 10:27
Running it backwards would seem to make it more of a handstop. Angled to the rear it is a more natural grip, right in line with the wrist.
YMMV.
This.
I’ve always ran mine backwards and used it solely as a “handstop”. Edit: I have also used it as a barricade support.
I’ve even considered “chopping” it ( I thought that was the Gucci thing to do anyways? But that could be its own thread..)
:lol:
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.