View Full Version : Germany's rifle drama finally reaching a conclusion?
Looks like H&K might finally win out:
"The Bundeswehr launched their program to select a new service rifle to replace the G36 in the spring of 2017, since then there has been a hard-fought selection process followed by court proceedings but it appears there may finally be an outcome. Following a ruling by the Düsseldorf Higher Regional Court, it now seems that the Bundeswehr will select the Heckler & Koch’s HK416 A8."
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2022/06/23/is-germanys-rifle-nightmare-over/
What a disaster the G36 has proven to be, might be the shortest service life since the M-14 and that was more about a change in caliber than failure of the rifle design. At least the 416 is actually a decent rifle.
But I don't think Germany will ever field anything other than a HK product for good or bad, their socialist government is simply predisposed to things that wouldn't happen in a true free market.
Coal Dragger
06-23-22, 21:31
Who cares? Ultimately the Germans have shown they won’t fight for anything so it doesn’t matter what rifle those Eurocucks choose.
Johnny Rico
06-23-22, 21:50
The German weapons procurement process is interesting, to put it mildly. Giving a rejected bidder grounds and standing to challenge the decision in court? Who thought that was a good idea?
Who cares? Ultimately the Germans have shown they won’t fight for anything so it doesn’t matter what rifle those Eurocucks choose.
LOL, ok. Depends how interesting Ukraine becomes. Everyone thinks they know what is going to happen in Europe until something different happens.
The German weapons procurement process is interesting, to put it mildly. Giving a rejected bidder grounds and standing to challenge the decision in court? Who thought that was a good idea?
HK, and given they are technically government owned to an extent, it's not surprising.
Coal Dragger
06-23-22, 22:49
LOL, ok. Depends how interesting Ukraine becomes. Everyone thinks they know what is going to happen in Europe until something different happens.
Conflict in Ukraine might as well be over, nothing new is likely to happen. Russians are going to Russian ie: not give back territory, continue to take casualties without caring much, and generally be assholes. The Russians might suck at soldiering, tactics, and doctrine by our standards but the bastards are quite willing to win ugly too.
Germany is so far proving themselves to be apathetic about the whole thing. Western Europeans in general have been trying real hard to undermine their own security and prosperity for years. I don’t think they have the true will to change that trajectory anymore.
Like Dennis Prager said. The lesson from WW2 wasn't that The Germans learned to fight evil, but it was to not fight at all. Cool piston AR they'll have.
Conflict in Ukraine might as well be over, nothing new is likely to happen. Russians are going to Russian ie: not give back territory, continue to take casualties without caring much, and generally be assholes. The Russians might suck at soldiering, tactics, and doctrine by our standards but the bastards are quite willing to win ugly too.
Germany is so far proving themselves to be apathetic about the whole thing. Western Europeans in general have been trying real hard to undermine their own security and prosperity for years. I don’t think they have the true will to change that trajectory anymore.
So I guess what I'm saying is if that status quo is maintained, then they will maintain their status quo. But if we've learned anything about history, anything can happen and it usually happens on the heels of some Lord Chamberlain proclaiming "peace is finally at hand."
I'm not going to pretend the 53 (or is it 59) war dead in Afghanistan are proof of Germany's willingness to fight, but let the fight actually get close enough and it might be a new game.
What a disaster the G36 has proven to be, might be the shortest service life since the M-14 and that was more about a change in caliber than failure of the rifle design. At least the 416 is actually a decent rifle.
But I don't think Germany will ever field anything other than a HK product for good or bad, their socialist government is simply predisposed to things that wouldn't happen in a true free market.
What's wrong with the G36? All the complaints about it I've traced back to the first gen stacked optic, which was poorly thought out and poorly manufactured, or the accuracy thing, which turned out to stem from a bad batch of ammo that got sent to front line troops. What problem does the actual rifle have?
https://www.dw.com/en/heckler-koch-g36-the-rifle-held-in-all-the-wrong-places/a-18402772
When the G36 overheats, either because of the temperature it finds itself in or because of constant, rapid fire, the precision and accuracy of the rifle suffer. The reason for this, according to the Defense Ministry, is that the rifle's barrel holder is made of a composite polymer that - even at a temperature as low as 23 degrees Celsius - softens and is no longer able to hold the barrel straight. Many of the components of the rifle are made of plastic, which account for its lighter weight when compared to its counterparts, such as the French FAMAS F1 or the American Colt AR-15.
A strictly classified series of tests conducted over the past months by three different applied science organizations, two Bundeswehr-related and one independent, was presented to von der Leyen at the end of March. The results, which were leaked to Reuters and select German media outlets, raised eyebrows well beyond the Defense Ministry.
All it takes is two magazines (60 rounds of ammunition) to heat up the barrel to an extent that "serious accuracy degradation" occurs, the researchers found. At this point, the accuracy degradation can be as severe as 50 centimeters at a range of 200 meters, and a full 6 meters at a range of 500 meters.
"The Heckler & Koch G36 has no future in the German army in its current state of construction," von der Leyen said in front of dozens of journalists following a special convention of the parliamentary committee on Wednesday.
So the once World Renowned Country for the manufacture of the world's finest weapons. Decides to copy a 67 year old American design.
Murica!
Heck, they could always resurrect the G3 :D
I'm actually curious to see if they just go straight to the 416, or if the Army's new 6.8x51 cartridge is given any consideration. As said above, it will likely not make a bit of difference considering the Germans won't fight, but it would be an interesting development.
What's wrong with the G36? All the complaints about it I've traced back to the first gen stacked optic, which was poorly thought out and poorly manufactured, or the accuracy thing, which turned out to stem from a bad batch of ammo that got sent to front line troops. What problem does the actual rifle have?
Receivers splitting at the trunnion area. Less than desirable accuracy. Problem with barrels at one point heating up and grouping all over the place.
The single / dual optic is irrelevant as it's easily replaced by a rail than can run any optic.
So the once World Renowned Country for the manufacture of the world's finest weapons. Decides to copy a 67 year old American design.
Murica!
Given that Larry Vickers was directly involved that shouldn't be surprising.
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