View Full Version : Supreme Court overrules roe v wade
It’s official. Roe V Wade is overturned and has been returned to the people and the states respectively.
Win.
Crowds are underwhelming ATM.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-24-22, 10:15
How does this final differ from the draft? I would have made sure to add text about how trying to intimidate Justices is illegal and counter productive.
The real big picture is that for two generations the left has legislated from the bench their agenda.
That ended today.
Also note the NC case where ‘third’ parties can be involved in cases- which was denied the people that wrote the ban on gay marriage in California- WHICH PASSED- but the Dem gov and Sec of State wouldn’t defend- and the people who wrote and got the initiative on the ballot- were declared to not have ‘standing’…
Outlander Systems
06-24-22, 10:22
Christ is King.
Actually this can be circumvented on the local level to a degree. Any woman wishing to terminate a pregnancy can locate a sympathetic ob-gyn to diagnose an incomplete or missed abortion and have the procedure at any local hospital/outpatient surgicenter. As the expression goes, every measure has a counter measure.
There’s gonna be a lot more Democrat voters in about 18 years...
This should not have been released on a Friday...
Be safe this weekend everyone.
OutofBatt3ry
06-24-22, 10:32
https://i.imgur.com/gwMUCsU.jpg
HalleluYah
Soli Deo Gloria
The undoing of really bad law and the Burger court wretches, GLORIOUS. Praise God almighty. This is but one step in the right direction, a big step though.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-24-22, 11:10
And 63,000,000 little cheers thundered from Heaven…
It’s official. Roe V Wade is overturned and has been returned to the people and the states respectively.
Win.
While I don't default agree with the decision, I do understand how they arrived at it, and it was shoe horned into being Constitutional on very flimsy grounds. Just because we agree/disagree with a decision, it can't be supported if it's just bolted onto being Constitutional as they did.
I also suspect the court will be revisiting that issue in the future and will have legit decide the Constitutionality of it vs the flimsy reasoning used in RvW. I do think putting it back to the states until such a time a case makes it back to SCOTUS to review, makes sense, whether one side or the other likes it.
Interesting times to be sure.
Puddin Pop gonna address the nation now....
68410
Biden to address the nation after Supreme Court overturns Roe v. Wade
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/24/biden-address-following-supreme-court-decision.html
Puddin Pop gonna address the nation now....
68410
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/24/biden-address-following-supreme-court-decision.html
I don't think I could stomach it. I'm trying to have a good day, and whatever he says will probably tempt me to lose my temper. I'll wait for a while.
I have to say that even though Roberts has been a bit of a "Souter" up until now, I'm glad he manned up on this and the gun decision. There is hope.
Coal Dragger
06-24-22, 12:15
This sounds like a great opportunity to create some new businesses in states that still allow abortion.
I’ll bet California and New York would even help subsidize and give me tax incentives to open some abortion resorts in their states. Attract liberal women to a spa like environment to murder their unborn and get pampered like the self absorbed waste of oxygen that they are. All while charging the silly broads an exorbitant amount of money to do it.
This sounds like a great opportunity to create some new businesses in states that still allow abortion.
I’ll bet California and New York would even help subsidize and give me tax incentives to open some abortion resorts in their states. Attract liberal women to a spa like environment to murder their unborn and get pampered like the self absorbed waste of oxygen that they are. All while charging the silly broads an exorbitant amount of money to do it.
They'll probably raise taxes to subsidize the whole disgusting thing. I think Newson has talk about making California some sort of safe haven for the oppressed baby murderers.
What a great week for scotus...can you imagine what would be going on in the courts if DJT hadn't won in 2016!! Yikes!!
His pics for judges over four years is a huge accomplishment.
This sounds like a great opportunity to create some new businesses in states that still allow abortion.
I’ll bet California and New York would even help subsidize and give me tax incentives to open some abortion resorts in their states. Attract liberal women to a spa like environment to murder their unborn and get pampered like the self absorbed waste of oxygen that they are. All while charging the silly broads an exorbitant amount of money to do it.
Open it in one of the mountain resort towns of Colorado. Self-absorbed wastes of oxygen love those mountain towns!
It'll be a shorter drive for you, and the baby murderers there will now let you murder babies right up until the moment of birth.
Maxine Waters: 'The hell with the Supreme Court. We will defy them'
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/maxine-waters-reacts-dobbs-ruling-hell-supreme-court-we-will-defy-them
Hallelujah.
Seems like the Court has made several good calls recently. Bout damn time.
Maxine Waters: 'The hell with the Supreme Court. We will defy them'
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/maxine-waters-reacts-dobbs-ruling-hell-supreme-court-we-will-defy-them
They're all losing their shit. It's going to be an interesting weekend...
Got this in a work related email this morning. It’s a good thing to overturn a bad decision.
As someone else mentioned, this won’t do away with abortion, but it will reduce it.
I don’t understand the celebration here. This is about the only thing that could bring out blue support in the midterms.
It’s not like anything got outlawed today, and it’s not like abortion was easy to come by in places like Texas already. I think people are overestimating the change from this and underestimating the consequences this fall.
Straight Shooter
06-24-22, 15:43
Did they rule on the coach fired for praying on the field? Im so sorry I cant remember the case name.
They are all saying my body my right but silent when they mandated vaccines... hypocrites. More importantly they didnt even show their boobs all painted up
I don’t understand the celebration here. This is about the only thing that could bring out blue support in the midterms.
It’s not like anything got outlawed today, and it’s not like abortion was easy to come by in places like Texas already. I think people are overestimating the change from this and underestimating the consequences this fall.
I was thinking same. I think the GOP would have wiped the floor with the Dems in coming elections, and this may kill that momentum. It may be some simply don't vote as they cant stand either party, some who were about to jump ship to GOP but now wont, or some motivated to get out and vote Dem due to being angry over the decision.
The Dems are already claiming this is an attack on gay Rights (same sex marriage), yada yada, and will drive that train like a $2 street walker.
Some, due to their moral/religious beliefs may not care as that's most important to them, but it may be one step for less abortions, and 2-3 steps back for the GOP, for net loss on various topics and issues.
We shall see, soon enough.
I don’t understand the celebration here. This is about the only thing that could bring out blue support in the midterms.
It’s not like anything got outlawed today, and it’s not like abortion was easy to come by in places like Texas already. I think people are overestimating the change from this and underestimating the consequences this fall.
Nobody here, from what I can tell, thinks this is the end of abortion, at least in places like Ca, NY, NJ and a few other states. What it does do is to free up conservative states to outlaw it on their soil. It's a big beginning , not the full end game.
As far as the midterms, I don't think many people will forget the financial devastation they are going through, the child grooming, the gun control, J6 show trial, the billions for Ukraine and nothing for school security.
BoringGuy45
06-24-22, 15:49
I don’t understand the celebration here. This is about the only thing that could bring out blue support in the midterms.
It’s not like anything got outlawed today, and it’s not like abortion was easy to come by in places like Texas already. I think people are overestimating the change from this and underestimating the consequences this fall.
Polls still show that the majority of people are worried more about the economy than anything. When little to nothing changes on this front in the next few months, and the gas prices and inflation remain the same, this will be forgotten. At any rate, the likelihood of the Dems holding the House is pretty slim at this point, and I don't think that's going to change.
The thing that DOES worry me now is that the pro-life side will get overzealous and extreme. It WILL be a huge deal if red states do things like ban contraceptives or criminalize miscarriages...hell there was one guy (can't remember the source) who questioned whether sex should only be legal, even in marriage, for procreation.
I was thinking same. I think the GOP would have wiped the floor with the Dems in coming elections, and this may kill that momentum. It may be some simply don't vote as they cant stand either party, some who were about to jump ship to GOP but now wont, or some motivated to get out and vote Dem due to being angry over the decision.
The Dems are already claiming this is an attack on gay Rights (same sex marriage), yada yada, and will drive that train like a $2 street walker.
Some, due to their moral/religious beliefs may not care as that's most important to them, but it may be one step for less abortions, and 2-3 steps back for the GOP, for net loss on various topics and issues.
We shall see, soon enough.
There wasn't a massive spike in favor of the Democrats when the draft was first leaked. While it's certainly possible that some people had the "wait and see" mentality on this, one would have expected the midterms to tighten or swing in favor of the Democrats then. But the polls remained pretty steady in favor of the GOP.
Straight Shooter
06-24-22, 15:49
I don’t understand the celebration here. This is about the only thing that could bring out blue support in the midterms.
It’s not like anything got outlawed today, and it’s not like abortion was easy to come by in places like Texas already. I think people are overestimating the change from this and underestimating the consequences this fall.
Respectfully- I believe you are 100% wrong. This didnt add any significant blue voters...that werent already gonna vote demonrat. This is MAJOR U.S. history both today & yesterday. America, at least a little...shifted Center Right today. The amount of States who've ALREADY banned, and will be banning abortion is huge. The gun laws that will fall because of yesterdays opinion..although not overnight...theyll fall too. Come November....we can speed all that up with a veto-proof Repub Congress.
Brother- if this doesnt qualify as YUGE and a new day in America...nothing does.
I don’t understand the celebration here. This is about the only thing that could bring out blue support in the midterms.
It’s not like anything got outlawed today, and it’s not like abortion was easy to come by in places like Texas already. I think people are overestimating the change from this and underestimating the consequences this fall.
There just are not a lot of hard core "unborn babies must die" people out there. The vast majority of Americans are about like me, don't think abortion should be illegal, but do not see aborting an unborn child up to the moment of birth as a "reproductive right".
Its June and 5 months of inflation is going to take away a lot of abortion anger. The same people who will vote because of the SC descision would vote anyway.
The pols are not upset at all about the descision, but they are enraged it wasn't an October surprise.
Andy
SomeOtherGuy
06-24-22, 15:52
I don’t understand the celebration here. This is about the only thing that could bring out blue support in the midterms.
It’s not like anything got outlawed today, and it’s not like abortion was easy to come by in places like Texas already. I think people are overestimating the change from this and underestimating the consequences this fall.
Pretty sure it was outlawed in Missouri today.
Fall elections - unpredictable. The economy and stagflation is an unmitigated disaster, and Biden today is less likable than pretty much anyone.
I don't think there are that many single-issue abortion voters, and I'd bet 99% of them were voting every cycle anyway. This could also raise enthusiasm among the anti-abortion crowd that otherwise might feel "meh" over voting, especially as there's probably 80-90% overlap between strong anti-abortion types and people who believe there was rampant fraud last election cycle. So I could see this actually increasing conservative turnout as much as, or even more than, it does for liberal turnout.
There’s gonna be a lot more Democrat voters in about 18 years...
You mean in 5 months. Of course unlike gun ownership, I assume they can just travel to non ban states.
Respectfully- This didnt add any significant blue voters...that werent already gonna vote demonrat.
In about 18 years you’ll be singing a different tune... just who do you think has been getting these abortions all along? Church going conservative women?
It’s been Democrats...
You mean in 5 months. Of course unlike gun ownership, I assume they can just travel to non ban states.
Maybe, but a supermajority of them can’t afford to travel from whereverville to kalifornia for a few days to undergo an abortion.
SomeOtherGuy
06-24-22, 15:58
There just are not a lot of hard core "unborn babies must die" people out there. The vast majority of Americans are about like me, don't think abortion should be illegal, but do not see aborting an unborn child up to the moment of birth as a "reproductive right".
Not sure how analogous it is, but my eyes have been opened on legalization of marijuana. I thought it was a good idea - then my state did it, and it is absolutely all-pervasive now all over, as much as if not more than alcohol sales. Stoners are everywhere, they are a road hazard, etc. etc.
I still don't support armed raids to find and confiscate marijuana - too much violence for too little social benefit - but maybe it should be in a gray area, illegal but only enforced when it's blatant. Which is how it was before in a lot of places anyway.
Not sure if this has any insight for the abortion debate. At this point in US history birth control is available anywhere and is often free, and Disney and such are doing their best to turn kids gay or trans. It's nearly impossible to find a healthy infant to adopt if you want to, and it costs a fortune. Maybe some small effort put into adoption and birth control would eliminate the supposed "need" for abortion among the people who seek them.
The thing that DOES worry me now is that the pro-life side will get overzealous and extreme. It WILL be a huge deal if red states do things like ban contraceptives or criminalize miscarriages...hell there was one guy (can't remember the source) who questioned whether sex should only be legal, even in marriage, for procreation.
The only Christian group that I know of that has a problem with contraceptives in general is the Roman Catholic Church. I could be wrong.
The caveat to that is that hormonal birth control often (don’t quote me, it’s been a while since I looked at this and argued with my wife about it) just causes an abortion by preventing the fertilized egg to implant in the uterine wall.
Very few people genuinely believe sex is only for procreation.
BoringGuy45
06-24-22, 16:00
Even if this decision brings out more blue voters, wouldn't yesterday's decision bring out more red voters? Won't today's decision bring out red voters?
Straight Shooter
06-24-22, 16:01
In about 18 years you’ll be singing a different tune... just who do you think has been getting these abortions all along? Church going conservative women?
It’s been Democrats...
I HOPE in 18 years Ive LONG been gone home...SHUDDER at the thought of being here that long.
Even if this decision brings out more blue voters, wouldn't yesterday's decision bring out more red voters? Won't today's decision bring out red voters?
"It’s the economy, stupid.”
James Carville - 1992
BoringGuy45
06-24-22, 16:14
"It’s the economy, stupid.”
James Carville - 1992
And the bad economy favors the GOP right now too.
I doubt either of of these decisions are going to move the needle in 5 months when gas is $9/gal and a weeks worth of groceries is $500+
Even if this decision brings out more blue voters, wouldn't yesterday's decision bring out more red voters? Won't today's decision bring out red voters?
Just as gun bans swing people off the fence to our side, this will do the same. Problem is most people care about being able to get an abortion than a gun. We will see in Nov. I guess.
BoringGuy45
06-24-22, 16:24
Just as gun bans swing people off the fence to our side, this will do the same. Problem is most people care about being able to get an abortion than a gun. We will see in Nov. I guess.
I don't think that's true. More people have guns than abortions. There's more single issue gun voters than abortion voters too.
Abortions in the U.S. have fallen off for years. A bit over 1.6M abortions at the 1990 peak, a bit over 860,000 in 2017. Population? Roughly 252M in 1990 and 325M in 2017. I'm too lazy to calculate abortion rates.
Much better birth control and acceptance of birth control made a huge difference. It also makes abortion less of a hot button issue than MSM and pols would have you beleive.
Andy
I might be disliked for this.
I don’t care how this changes voter demographics. I don’t care which voter base this charges. We’ve had an estimated 63 million abortions in this country.
We’ve had the Holocaust in the United States almost 12 times over. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/estimated-number-of-jews-killed-in-the-final-solution
This won’t even stop that as some states will now legalize abortion. This is a path to undue yet another genocide and atrocity in this country’s long history.
ETA: I’m happy for it.
God Bless,
Brandon
colt191145lover
06-24-22, 17:06
I might be disliked for this.
I don’t care how this changes voter demographics. I don’t care which voter base this charges. We’ve had an estimated 63 million abortions in this country.
We’ve had the Holocaust in the United States almost 12 times over. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/estimated-number-of-jews-killed-in-the-final-solution
This won’t even stop that as some states will now legalize abortion. This is a path to undue yet another genocide and atrocity in this country’s long history.
ETA: I’m happy for it.
God Bless,
Brandon
All I can say is, Amen!
I might be disliked for this.
~SNIP~
ETA: I’m happy for it.
God Bless,
Brandon
Why would anyone dislike you for your post? You expressed your belief in a non-combative manner.
Even my wife and I don't agree an all aspects of abortion and birth control. I support no-cost birth control, my wife says thats stupid (she says it nicely).
Andy
I was watching the news, I have 2 observations.
First a bunch of the pro abortion women were sporting the flag of multicolors, so I assume they aren't interested in men. So why do they need an abortion, if they have sex with other women I promise they will not get pregnant. Second 90% of them were so nasty looking, they need not worry about a man being interested in them, and thus also no worry about getting pregnant.
I was watching the news, I have 2 observations.
First a bunch of the pro abortion women were sporting the flag of multicolors, so I assume they aren't interested in men. So why do they need an abortion, if they have sex with other women I promise they will not get pregnant. Second 90% of them were so nasty looking, they need not worry about a man being interested in them, and thus also no worry about getting pregnant.
I pointed out the same thing (rainbow flags) to my wife.
Best comment - from Fallin' Joe, of course "Ruling taking America 150 years back". Does he think he is 200 years old? Did Kameltoe subtract 1973 from 2022 and come up with 150?
Andy
I might be disliked for this.
I don’t care how this changes voter demographics. I don’t care which voter base this charges. We’ve had an estimated 63 million abortions in this country.
We’ve had the Holocaust in the United States almost 12 times over. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/estimated-number-of-jews-killed-in-the-final-solution
This won’t even stop that as some states will now legalize abortion. This is a path to undue yet another genocide and atrocity in this country’s long history.
ETA: I’m happy for it.
God Bless,
Brandon
If people do dislike you for this, wear it like a badge.
thespyhunter
06-24-22, 17:37
Christ is King.
This ^^^
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
BangBang77
06-24-22, 18:09
If people do dislike you for this, wear it like a badge.
Amen brother. Righting a wrong and being happy about it is never something to be ashamed of.
I find it somewhat disturbing that people are marching for their "right" to commit murder on an innocent unborn child. A "night of rage"?
I wish them luck. I'm traveling this week and next for work, staying on the east side of Louisville, KY. I drove on this business trip instead of flying for the prospect of the fallout of this SCOTUS decision, as well as the gun decision yesterday. Driving the wife's SUV this week, loaded down with everything necessary to get home. Rifles for the wife and I. Plates for the wife and I. Helmets for the wife and I. Sustainment packs / med kits / rolling gear. My wife thought I was nuts for loading two full rolling deployment bags of gear in the back of her SUV before we headed out last Sunday. Maybe I am? Then again, maybe I'm not...
Let them loot. Let them burn. Let them act the fool. I'm going home next Friday. Period. If I have to drove over or shoot through the mob, so be it.
Today is a good day.
BangBang77
06-24-22, 18:10
This ^^^
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This x 2
I was watching the news, I have 2 observations.
First a bunch of the pro abortion women were sporting the flag of multicolors, so I assume they aren't interested in men. So why do they need an abortion, if they have sex with other women I promise they will not get pregnant. Second 90% of them were so nasty looking, they need not worry about a man being interested in them, and thus also no worry about getting pregnant.
I think you underestimate the "crazy contingent" of the far left.
There are lesbians who will get inseminated so that they can have children, and as often as not will want to raise them to be gay (even though they claim it's not a choice).
I'm also pretty convinced there are extremists who will get pregnant simply so they can practice abortion.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-24-22, 18:44
I was listening to CNN and Jake Tapper had some people on. The one chick was the worst. Tapper pointed out that states will choose and even Virginia will probably have a 15 week limit, and the Dark Lord Desantis in Florida has a 15 week(I think) limit- which is like in most of the EU. She kind of pivoted and said that the real battle will be in Oklahoma City- and my response to that was- good luck getting all the self absorbed millenials in Blue states, who won’t be affected, to give a crap about OK City….
Next she said that you can’t get away from the fact that 3 of the 5 people at the table were harmed that day. Since she was 55, I don’t know if she included herself, I was listening in radio. But to that I would have asked her why- and she’d say ‘because we are women’- and I’d retort, yes, but 5 of 5 of us were babies… so kind of an all around win…
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-24-22, 18:55
We have this decision because of the Democrats and their choice. Obama decided that he wanted the election year issue of not having garlands appointment moved forward. And he did nothing to actually make that happen. That was a political decision because he thought Hillary was going to win and she would be able to replace the seat anyway. I hope Merrick garland doesn’t think he actually was ever going to get a seat on Scotus. Nobody wanted him to have that seat except for him and his mom.
And then the Democrats put Clinton up against Trump and thought they could just walk over and let her be the first president and start throwing rainbows onto the court. Well that didn’t work out. Clinton was the most unlikable candidate in the last 50 years. Bill could literally not inject her with likability.
Without these two decisions they would now have a 6-3 or even 7-2 advantage for the baby killing, gun grabbers on the court.
I think you underestimate the "crazy contingent" of the far left.
There are lesbians who will get inseminated so that they can have children, and as often as not will want to raise them to be gay (even though they claim it's not a choice).
I'm also pretty convinced there are extremists who will get pregnant simply so they can practice abortion.
I was trying to be sarcastic.
Believe me I have studied these Marxist shits my whole life .
I was trying to be sarcastic.
Believe me I have studied these Marxist shits my whole life .
Sorry missed it.
Straight Shooter
06-24-22, 19:29
Amen brother. Righting a wrong and being happy about it is never something to be ashamed of.
I find it somewhat disturbing that people are marching for their "right" to commit murder on an innocent unborn child. A "night of rage"?
I wish them luck. I'm traveling this week and next for work, staying on the east side of Louisville, KY. I drove on this business trip instead of flying for the prospect of the fallout of this SCOTUS decision, as well as the gun decision yesterday. Driving the wife's SUV this week, loaded down with everything necessary to get home. Rifles for the wife and I. Plates for the wife and I. Helmets for the wife and I. Sustainment packs / med kits / rolling gear. My wife thought I was nuts for loading two full rolling deployment bags of gear in the back of her SUV before we headed out last Sunday. Maybe I am? Then again, maybe I'm not...
Let them loot. Let them burn. Let them act the fool. I'm going home next Friday. Period. If I have to drove over or shoot through the mob, so be it.
Today is a good day.
MY MAN.:smile:
GODSPEED on getting home sir!
Amen brother. Righting a wrong and being happy about it is never something to be ashamed of.
I find it somewhat disturbing that people are marching for their "right" to commit murder on an innocent unborn child. A "night of rage"?
I wish them luck. I'm traveling this week and next for work, staying on the east side of Louisville, KY. I drove on this business trip instead of flying for the prospect of the fallout of this SCOTUS decision, as well as the gun decision yesterday. Driving the wife's SUV this week, loaded down with everything necessary to get home. Rifles for the wife and I. Plates for the wife and I. Helmets for the wife and I. Sustainment packs / med kits / rolling gear. My wife thought I was nuts for loading two full rolling deployment bags of gear in the back of her SUV before we headed out last Sunday. Maybe I am? Then again, maybe I'm not...
Let them loot. Let them burn. Let them act the fool. I'm going home next Friday. Period. If I have to drove over or shoot through the mob, so be it.
Today is a good day.
Be careful in Louisville it’s a liberal shithole. Rolling around with that much gear will get you loved by the local PD and labeled a terrorist by the DA.
Amen brother. Righting a wrong and being happy about it is never something to be ashamed of.
I find it somewhat disturbing that people are marching for their "right" to commit murder on an innocent unborn child. A "night of rage"?
I wish them luck. I'm traveling this week and next for work, staying on the east side of Louisville, KY. I drove on this business trip instead of flying for the prospect of the fallout of this SCOTUS decision, as well as the gun decision yesterday. Driving the wife's SUV this week, loaded down with everything necessary to get home. Rifles for the wife and I. Plates for the wife and I. Helmets for the wife and I. Sustainment packs / med kits / rolling gear. My wife thought I was nuts for loading two full rolling deployment bags of gear in the back of her SUV before we headed out last Sunday. Maybe I am? Then again, maybe I'm not...
Let them loot. Let them burn. Let them act the fool. I'm going home next Friday. Period. If I have to drove over or shoot through the mob, so be it.
Today is a good day.
Thanks brother. You sound like you're ready to rumble. I'll be praying for you and your wife.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-24-22, 21:19
So it is Fascist to take this decision away from unelected officials and give it back to the people to decide... like a democracy... which is the opposite of Fascism.......
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-24-22, 22:36
Biden and Garland are both talking up the ability for abortion drugs to be shipped to people in red states with abortion bans. Are we gonna call those 80% abortions? Ghost abortions?
I don’t understand the celebration here. This is about the only thing that could bring out blue support in the midterms.
It’s not like anything got outlawed today, and it’s not like abortion was easy to come by in places like Texas already. I think people are overestimating the change from this and underestimating the consequences this fall.
Over the intermediate-to-longer term, both sides of the issue will move to greater and greater extremes. Extreme beliefs, extreme positions, extreme behavior.
It’s shocking to me that so very few people can see this, given U.S. social history over the last 50 years, but they do not.
Biden and Garland are both talking up the ability for abortion drugs to be shipped to people in red states with abortion bans. Are we gonna call those 80% abortions? Ghost abortions?
Quite honestly if people would just practice responsible birth control and in those extremely rare instances where it's unavoidable (birth control failed, criminal rape and things like that) use things like the "morning after" pill this entire abortion issue would almost be non existent and would be mostly limited to the pregnancy posing a serious risk of injury or death to the mother.
Abortion as a means of birth control is about as irresponsible as one can be. In a modern, educated western country this shouldn't even be a real issue. We aren't some ridiculous Islamic theocracy that believes in witchcraft still and considered birth control a crime and we aren't some "stuck in the 1700s" African tribe that doesn't even know how reproduction works.
If people took responsible control for their childrens education, and I don't mean expecting sex ed in public school to do it for them, by the time they became old enough to get pregnant, we'd see a lot less of this.
Over the intermediate-to-longer term, both sides of the issue will move to greater and greater extremes. Extreme beliefs, extreme positions, extreme behavior.
It’s shocking to me that so very few people can see this, given U.S. social history over the last 50 years, but they do not.
I tend to agree, radical running the game and will just be waiting for payback the moment they have a majority. But abortion is one of those issues that isn't a political issue, it's religious and core belief on both sides.
Quite honestly if people would just practice responsible birth control and in those extremely rare instances where it's unavoidable (birth control failed, criminal rape and things like that) use things like the "morning after" pill this entire abortion issue would almost be non existent and would be mostly limited to the pregnancy posing a serious risk of injury or death to the mother.
Abortion as a means of birth control is about as irresponsible as one can be. In a modern, educated western country this shouldn't even be a real issue. We aren't some ridiculous Islamic theocracy that believes in witchcraft still and considered birth control a crime and we aren't some "stuck in the 1700s" African tribe that doesn't even know how reproduction works.
If people took responsible control for their childrens education, and I don't mean expecting sex ed in public school to do it for them, by the time they became old enough to get pregnant, we'd see a lot less of this.
This pretty well tracks with my thoughts on the subject. I keep hearing the argument being made by the left for rape and incest caused pregnancies as the reason they want to have all of the abortions. Once you bring up Plan B that argument falters. I am pretty convinced they want to have abortions remain legal as a form of birth control, unprotected sex and if they get knocked up then just abort the fetus. In watching reports on those in Seattle protesting it is all older white bitches and their cucked partners, most wearing COVID masks. Didn't see any reps from the hood come up. The rioters in LA are all dressed in black bloc, like they were waiting for an excuse.
I might be disliked for this.
I don’t care how this changes voter demographics. I don’t care which voter base this charges. We’ve had an estimated 63 million abortions in this country.
We’ve had the Holocaust in the United States almost 12 times over. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/estimated-number-of-jews-killed-in-the-final-solution
This won’t even stop that as some states will now legalize abortion. This is a path to undue yet another genocide and atrocity in this country’s long history.
ETA: I’m happy for it.
God Bless,
Brandon
Disliked or not, you are speaking the truth. Never apologize for the truth.
Quite honestly if people would just practice responsible birth control and in those extremely rare instances where it's unavoidable (birth control failed, criminal rape and things like that) use things like the "morning after" pill this entire abortion issue would almost be non existent and would be mostly limited to the pregnancy posing a serious risk of injury or death to the mother.
Abortion as a means of birth control is about as irresponsible as one can be. In a modern, educated western country this shouldn't even be a real issue. We aren't some ridiculous Islamic theocracy that believes in witchcraft still and considered birth control a crime and we aren't some "stuck in the 1700s" African tribe that doesn't even know how reproduction works.
If people took responsible control for their childrens education, and I don't mean expecting sex ed in public school to do it for them, by the time they became old enough to get pregnant, we'd see a lot less of this.
Just the natural regression of the Left. It wasn’t too long ago when they supported abortion to protect the mother, for emergencies only, in cases of rape or incest. Now they are promoting it as a form of birth control and a woman’s (which is funny seeing how they cannot define what a woman is) right for any reason. They even brag about getting abortions. Just like how gay rights started- they went from just wanting to be left alone to do whatever they want to do in their bedroom to mandating the grooming and indoctrination of elementary school children.
Over the intermediate-to-longer term, both sides of the issue will move to greater and greater extremes. Extreme beliefs, extreme positions, extreme behavior.
It’s shocking to me that so very few people can see this, given U.S. social history over the last 50 years, but they do not.
I tend to agree, radical running the game and will just be waiting for payback the moment they have a majority. But abortion is one of those issues that isn't a political issue, it's religious and core belief on both sides.
I tend to agree, it's gonna get worse before there is any chance it gets better.
Lunatics from both sides are already starting to draw the lines. Pro-abortion loonies are already setting the goalpost at full term abortion for any reason, and right wing loonies are eying birth control, sodomy laws, and cohabitation.
I find myself viscerally hating both extremes. I would refuse to live peaceably in eithers vision of the world.
I tend to agree, it's gonna get worse before there is any chance it gets better.
Lunatics from both sides are already starting to draw the lines. Pro-abortion loonies are already setting the goalpost at full term abortion for any reason, and right wing loonies are eying birth control, sodomy laws, and cohabitation.
I find myself viscerally hating both extremes. I would refuse to live peaceably in eithers vision of the world.
The difference is that only the lunatic right wing fringe is "eying birth control, sodomy laws, and cohabitation" while abortion up to the moment of birth is perfectly acceptable to many on the left and apparently, most MSM personalities. At most, leftists will insist late term abortions is a "right wing myth" while supporting no regulation to prevent it.
I honestly DGAF if someone is gay, transgender, likes to wear dresses, lives with multiple partners, uses birth control, etc. On the other hand, I damn feel abortions at 8.5 months are absolutely immoral.
Andy
The difference is that only the lunatic right wing fringe is "eying birth control, sodomy laws, and cohabitation" while abortion up to the moment of birth is perfectly acceptable to many on the left and apparently, most MSM personalities. At most, leftists will insist late term abortions is a "right wing myth" while supporting no regulation to prevent it.
I honestly DGAF if someone is gay, transgender, likes to wear dresses, lives with multiple partners, uses birth control, etc. On the other hand, I damn feel abortions at 8.5 months are absolutely immoral.
Andy
I largely agree, I'm with you on basically everything you said. The fringe left has a LOT of ugly and dangerous beliefs and it is certainly more acceptable now to openly tout them. Their views on limitless abortion are only one of the "bridges too far" for me.
Don't discount the fringe right though. Maybe it's just where I live, but I have seen folks heatedly arguing, in public, that birth control and oral sex even amongst married, heterosexual couples should be illegal. There may be more of them than you think, they are just as rabid, and they are anxious to spread their wings. It doesn't help that Thomas immediately mentioned Griswold (birth control), Lawrence (straight and gay consensual sex/sodomy), and Obergefell (gay marriage). I'm assuming he was referencing legal issues not idealogical ones but...
I'm just a bit worried that those of us between the extremes are in for a wild ride courtesy of the radicals on both sides.
I honestly DGAF if someone is gay, transgender, likes to wear dresses, lives with multiple partners, uses birth control, etc. On the other hand, I damn feel abortions at 8.5 months are absolutely immoral.
Andy
I agree with this 100%. It will be interesting to see how this decision changes the demographics of the country. Is some on the left now going turn down that tech job in TX and stay in CA because of the TX prohibition on abortion? I’m sure some will.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-25-22, 10:17
Lawyer/docs- they are talking about the fed gov being able to send out abortificients(Sp?) to people 'behind the lines' in red states. And that the states couldn't do anything about it.
Outside of the Hyde Amendment (still a thing?), I get interstate trade and drug approvals fall under FED control, but the fed govt facilitating the breaking of a state law?
The president is immune from federal charges, but not from state charges correct?
The actual govt people fulfilling orders, they are supposedly protected by sovereign immunity? I guess a theory, but there has to be some limit to that?
Lawyer/docs- they are talking about the fed gov being able to send out abortificients(Sp?) to people 'behind the lines' in red states. And that the states couldn't do anything about it.
Outside of the Hyde Amendment (still a thing?), I get interstate trade and drug approvals fall under FED control, but the fed govt facilitating the breaking of a state law?
The president is immune from federal charges, but not from state charges correct?
The actual govt people fulfilling orders, they are supposedly protected by sovereign immunity? I guess a theory, but there has to be some limit to that?
Well, the consensus on this board seems to be "never send a hi-cap mag to a ban state" due to potential criminal (most likely civil) violations. Seems to be the same case with abortion pills, but probably depends on state statutes.
Andy
Five_Point_Five_Six
06-25-22, 10:33
Christ is King.
Indeed he is.
I tend to agree, it's gonna get worse before there is any chance it gets better.
Lunatics from both sides are already starting to draw the lines. Pro-abortion loonies are already setting the goalpost at full term abortion for any reason, and right wing loonies are eying birth control, sodomy laws, and cohabitation.
I find myself viscerally hating both extremes. I would refuse to live peaceably in eithers vision of the world.
We think alike.
Who is going to take care of a Million unwanted babies?
The Dumb Gun Collector
06-25-22, 11:43
Who is going to take care of a Million unwanted babies?
The same people who take care of the millions of unwanted babies now.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-25-22, 11:47
Who is going to take care of a Million unwanted babies?
Uhm, their parents?
I don’t know if I heard it right but I think it was a Texas state senator that said that since life starts at conception that the responsibilities of the father also begin then to and that the father is going to be on the hook for financial obligations even during pregnancy. That’s a legit change. Maybe women and now men might pay more attention to the outcomes of their actions since the OODA is so much shorter now.
The inherent problem is that the left has been trying to use the court to get the outcomes that they want and can’t get through the legislatures either slowly or want it all right now. That is the basis of all of our problems. They come up with a end point and then they use legally gobbledygook to justify that endpoint.
That is how you end up with terrible law and precedent like we’ve gotten from all these 1960s social cases. Instead of it going through some kind of legislative process like in Europe, that was short-circuited by the left using the courts to legislate.
We have now seen the folly of this path. The conservatives on the court are trying to write this short circuiting of our constitutional system. The very fact that people think that Thomases opinion means that he is against those things like interracial marriage, gay marriage, shove it up your butt or whatever in the bedroom, don’t understand that he is just saying that there is not a right for that in the constitution. That doesn’t mean that you are against it. It just means that the people have to legislate, or a constitutional amendments when appropriate, to add these rights.
This rights under every shadow and rock, lead to the stupidity of saying that people have a right to healthcare, which is the enslavement of someone to provide your right.
Unfortunately the legislative system has been broken and the left has tried to go around it through the courts. This leads to even less reason to find legislative solutions to these things, when you can try to win everything through the courts. Well they lost out on that strategy and now they’re crying.
These rulings may be the most important to preserving our democracy going forward. Because now we have the impetus to find true compromise and solutions in the middle rather than electing extremists who will never solve anything. Democracy dies when it’s dictated by black robes. Sometime in the future people will be amazed when they realize that these decisions were to take the power away from the people actually making the decisions. When has that ever happened before?
Welcome to the renaissance of democracy.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-25-22, 11:54
And they released just special for Justice Thomas’ Birthday…
Uhm, their parents?
No sir, that would be folks like me and you who pay taxes.
No sir, that would be folks like me and you who pay taxes.
This^
Outlander Systems
06-25-22, 12:42
Exactly. People are already feeling the repercussions of this decision to force them to accept responsibility for their actions. Here is one young woman’s account:
“Women are already being hurt by this!
I work in a hospital and had just come back from getting lunch at Subway. I was in the room for an abortion procedure when the news broke. The doctor doing the procedure took off his mask, put a stethoscope around the patient’s neck and yelled, “this is a MAGA hospital,” before shoving the baby back inside the woman.
I am literally shaking right now.”
Who is going to take care of a Million unwanted babies?
The Dumb Gun Collector
06-25-22, 13:05
The same people who pay for all the mentally disabled and elderly people in nursing homes we don't exterminate.
sandsunsurf
06-25-22, 13:34
As a lifelong Republican, I completely support the ideals and beliefs that the government is not responsible for taking care of us, and what decisions we make for ourselves are individual, inalienable rights, that another person or government cannot dictate. [absolute truth]
Well except for abortion, since I’m a stodgy old white guy, I have every right to demand that the government tells young women what they can and cannot do with their own bodies. They’re too dumb to understand. [absolute sarcasm]
How do you all rationalize your hypocrisy?
Outlander Systems
06-25-22, 13:48
Here’s how:
Abortion is the most powerful form of ritual murder ever created. Why is abortion the most powerful form of human ritual sacrifice? It entails the most defenseless victims conceivable (the unborn) being murdered by the very persons most duty-bound to love and protect them from harm; their own mothers.
These ritual murders, which society misnames, “abortion” are, furthermore, carried out in a nonchalant and routinized fashion exclusively to facilitate hedonistic apathy, laziness and convenience; symbolically placing a moment of vaginal pleasure above the value of an entire lifetime’s worth of a living, breathing human being’s consciousness.
In short, Satan and his servants love abortion, because it symbolizes evil within cruelty within absolute selfishness. It proffers that a fleeting moment of genital contractions means more than human life itself; and it does this using the greatest symbols of love and compassion (mothers and doctors), Satanically inverted into spiritually numbed, unfeeling, clinical executioners.
But, as long as GDP is up, who cares about any of that, right?
How do you all rationalize your hypocrisy?
BangBang77
06-25-22, 14:07
As a lifelong Republican, I completely support the ideals and beliefs that the government is not responsible for taking care of us, and what decisions we make for ourselves are individual, inalienable rights, that another person or government cannot dictate. [absolute truth]
Well except for abortion, since I’m a stodgy old white guy, I have every right to demand that the government tells young women what they can and cannot do with their own bodies. They’re too dumb to understand. [absolute sarcasm]
How do you all rationalize your hypocrisy?
You wanna put a penis in your mouth? Do it. You wanna carpet munch? Do it. You wanna marry Steve and Fred? Do it. You wanna marry Sally and Nancy? Do it. You wanna carry a SAW to Starbucks? Do it. I'm all for personal freedom when the behavior or sin is against one's own self. Each of us has to answer for our decisions that effect only us as individuals.
You wanna murder the innocent unborn fetus inside you because you were too irresponsible to use proper birth control? Negative Ghostrider. No woman, in any country, under any law, on any continent, on any planet, has the right to commit murder. Period. That is a sin committed on another person and we should fight to prevent or eliminate that. At all costs.
Here’s how:
Abortion is the most powerful form of ritual murder ever created. Why is abortion the most powerful form of human ritual sacrifice? It entails the most defenseless victims conceivable (the unborn) being murdered by the very persons most duty-bound to love and protect them from harm; their own mothers.
These ritual murders, which society misnames, “abortion” are, furthermore, carried out in a nonchalant and routinized fashion exclusively to facilitate hedonistic apathy, laziness and convenience; symbolically placing a moment of vaginal pleasure above the value of an entire lifetime’s worth of a living, breathing human being’s consciousness.
In short, Satan and his servants love abortion, because it symbolizes evil within cruelty within absolute selfishness. It proffers that a fleeting moment of genital contractions means more than human life itself; and it does this using the greatest symbols of love and compassion (mothers and doctors), Satanically inverted into spiritually numbed, unfeeling, clinical executioners.
But, as long as GDP is up, who cares about any of that, right?
Dang, Outlander. Bravo.
It makes sense even without religious references, for those who dislike.
sandsunsurf
06-25-22, 14:56
You wanna murder the innocent unborn fetus inside you because you were too irresponsible to use proper birth control? Negative Ghostrider. No woman, in any country, under any law, on any continent, on any planet, has the right to commit murder. Period. That is a sin committed on another person and we should fight to prevent or eliminate that. At all costs.
Respectable opinion. When are a few cells a human and not just a group of cells?What about rape or incest? Who decides?
@Outlander - I understand your position but disagree with all of the hard-core religious parts. I think that humans have evolved enough to recognize that the idea of a supreme being, heaven, or hell is questionable at best and the idea of humans being “made in his image” is borderline arrogant (not saying you said that or believe that, just my position).
I’m not sure there is an answer to any of these questions. I think it is terrible to force a woman to risk her life for a baby. The couple in Malta this week is an example of extremism gone wrong. I also think that abortions aren’t reasonable birth control.
The only thing I can say that is for sure a good idea is to give away birth control for free at the high school nurse, pharmacy and anywhere else a woman can possibly get it. Cheaper than all the welfare babies….
Maybe require proof of long term birth control for women getting welfare or housing benefits. Men’s birth control may be coming soon, so I would say the same thing for them- give it away like SNAP.
Outlander Systems
06-25-22, 14:57
Thanks.
There’s a sort of “Boomer Conservatism” that exists out there, which seeks nothing more than the conservation of corporate profits above all else. It doesn’t matter how utterly degenerate and evil the culture is, all long GDP is high and their 401ks and pensions remain solvent. All else be damned.
They need to be excised.
Dang, Outlander. Bravo.
It makes sense even without religious references, for those who dislike.
Outlander Systems
06-25-22, 15:13
At the moment of conception.
Respectable opinion. When are a few cells a human and not just a group of cells?
Outlander Systems
06-25-22, 15:17
I speak fluent neckbeard/fedora, so here’s a religion-free parallel dilemma:
Assume a planet is discovered approximately 10 light years away from Earth orbiting a stable star. A person from NASA approaches you in private and informs you that complex microscopic organisms have formed on the surface of the planet, and top evolutionary researchers believe that the evolutionary trajectory of these organisms will ensure the development of sentient, human like creatures in the distant future (100 million years or more). It is determined that these beings will being competitive with future humanity for resources and this planet, once we are able to achieve interstellar travel is a habitable location for colonization. The agent offers you a one-time payment of an untraceable $300 million if you to activate a top-secret interstellar weapon that will disintegrate the planet into space dust, killing all life on the planet. You will be granted absolute diplomatic immunity if your decision to destroy the planet is ever publicly disclosed.
What do you choose to do, and explain your reasoning as to why this is ethically acceptable.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-25-22, 15:53
Thanks.
There’s a sort of “Boomer Conservatism” that exists out there, which seeks nothing more than the conservation of corporate profits above all else. It doesn’t matter how utterly degenerate and evil the culture is, all long GDP is high and their 401ks and pensions remain solvent. All else be damned.
They need to be excised.
You have nailed the corporate progressive baby boomers typified by the Clintons. The 60s hippies figured out that they needed cash, and corporate-government-nonprofit cabal is the way to do it.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-25-22, 16:11
I just think it’s hilarious at a certain level that the left is so bat crap crazy over the fact that the conservative justices may not have been totally forthcoming with their statements on their standing with Roe. Kind of interesting when people are lying to politicians, rather than the other way around.
I speak fluent neckbeard/fedora, so here’s a religion-free parallel dilemma:
Assume a planet is discovered approximately 10 light years away from Earth orbiting a stable star. A person from NASA approaches you in private and informs you that complex microscopic organisms have formed on the surface of the planet, and top evolutionary researchers believe that the evolutionary trajectory of these organisms will ensure the development of sentient, human like creatures in the distant future (100 million years or more). It is determined that these beings will being competitive with future humanity for resources and this planet, once we are able to achieve interstellar travel is a habitable location for colonization. The agent offers you a one-time payment of an untraceable $300 million if you to activate a top-secret interstellar weapon that will disintegrate the planet into space dust, killing all life on the planet. You will be granted absolute diplomatic immunity if your decision to destroy the planet is ever publicly disclosed.
What do you choose to do, and explain your reasoning as to why this is ethically acceptable.
Bacteria are complex microscopic organisms and we wipe them out all the time, usually because they threaten us.
BangBang77
06-25-22, 16:55
Respectable opinion. When are a few cells a human and not just a group of cells?What about rape or incest? Who decides?
I am a fundamentalist. I believe that every word in my Bible is the inerrant holy inspired word of God. To be interpreted in the same manner as the US Constitution, i.e. literally.
I belive there were two main facets of The Law, as detailed in the 1st five books of the Bible. The first main facet was morality and how we should live and those rules to live by. We should all strive to adhere to said rules. The second facet was how to correct our failure to live up to The Law. The sacrificial portion, in blood so to speak. These two facets comprise the Mosaic Covenant.
When Jesus came and through His sacrifice, brought unto the world, for both Jews and Gentiles, the New Covenant, this did away with the sacrificial portion of the Mosaic Covenant, yet left the morality rules in intact. The Levitical rules still apply. No, we can't live up to them as we are all fallen, sinful people. Yet thru His sacrifice, His grace, and His mercy, we are forgiven if we repent and turn to Him for His guidance.
That being said, so as to clarify where I stand and what I fundamentally believe, I believe with all my heart that human life begins at conception. From the moment the sperm joins the egg, life is brought to bear. My Bible tells me that each life is created in the image of God. Who am I to decide when that is? Even if I am wrong, I prefer to err on the side of caution.
My opinion isn't popular here. Or anywhere for that matter. Yet, I was told by Jesus himself through the Gospels that the world would hate me, just as they hated Him. I'm more than okay with that. I won't engage and attempt to correct each and every post on this forum, especially in the GD. I won't equate my Biblical understanding to every situation and topic with every poster on this forum. Not one member reading this hasn't been given the opportunity to seek out understanding and discernment on their own accord, and all have heard the Gospel with enough understanding to make their own individual decision, however misguided those decisions may be.
Now you all know where I stand. If anyone wants to talk about it in depth, PM me and I will share my personal contact info. I would be more than happy to get down in the weeds on it all.
The Dumb Gun Collector
06-25-22, 17:05
What about rape or incest? Who decides?
So we can agree that in all cases except rape and incest (and presumably a realistic threat to the mother's life) that abortion is evil? Or is those examples just a distraction?
Outlander Systems
06-25-22, 17:14
https://youtu.be/AE0Ih_RRql4
That being said, so as to clarify where I stand and what I fundamentally believe, I believe with all my heart that human life begins at conception. From the moment the sperm joins the egg, life is brought to bear. My Bible tells me that each life is created in the image of God. Who am I to decide when that is? Even if I am wrong, I prefer to err on the side of caution.
I speak fluent neckbeard/fedora, so here’s a religion-free parallel dilemma:
Assume a planet is discovered approximately 10 light years away from Earth orbiting a stable star. A person from NASA approaches you in private and informs you that complex microscopic organisms have formed on the surface of the planet, and top evolutionary researchers believe that the evolutionary trajectory of these organisms will ensure the development of sentient, human like creatures in the distant future (100 million years or more). It is determined that these beings will being competitive with future humanity for resources and this planet, once we are able to achieve interstellar travel is a habitable location for colonization. The agent offers you a one-time payment of an untraceable $300 million if you to activate a top-secret interstellar weapon that will disintegrate the planet into space dust, killing all life on the planet. You will be granted absolute diplomatic immunity if your decision to destroy the planet is ever publicly disclosed.
What do you choose to do, and explain your reasoning as to why this is ethically acceptable.
Pass. Not because of sanctity of life concerns/beliefs (especially for some micro-organism) but because I quite literally don't care what happens 100 million years from now. My remains won't even be around. The human species isn't really likely to be around 100 million years from now. Maybe another sentient, human-like life form will actually have their shit together much more than humans ever dreamed of. Maybe they will do what we should be doing, live and let live. They'll likely look at us as the most unevolved, sentient life form that ever existed in the entire universe and wonder how we survived as long as we did.
As a lifelong Republican, I completely support the ideals and beliefs that the government is not responsible for taking care of us, and what decisions we make for ourselves are individual, inalienable rights, that another person or government cannot dictate. [absolute truth]
Well except for abortion, since I’m a stodgy old white guy, I have every right to demand that the government tells young women what they can and cannot do with their own bodies. They’re too dumb to understand. [absolute sarcasm]
How do you all rationalize your hypocrisy?
Its not hypocrisy. Pro life folks truly do not care what young, middle age, or golden year women do with their bodies (besides a natural human desire to see people healthy, happy, etc.). They care very deeply what women do with the body of the person growing inside them.
Is it really that hard to comprehend?
Pregnancy normally lasts 40 weeks, but a baby born at 30 weeks is expected to survive, develop normally, and have no lasting health effects. Even at 25 weeks, 75 percent of premature babies survive. https://www.whattoexpect.com/first-year/preemie-categorization/
The idea that abortion limits are a way to tell a woman what to do with her body is ridiculous.
Democrats should be in favor of common sense abortion laws.
Andy
Outlander Systems
06-25-22, 17:30
LOLbertarian-leaning Boomer midwits:
“The child has no right to the woman's body. The two are simply being disconnected. If the child dies as a result of that, well then that child simply should of pulled itself up by its bootstraps and figured out a way to take care of itself without being a leech.”
They care very deeply what women do with the body of the person growing inside them.
So we can agree that in all cases except rape and incest (and presumably a realistic threat to the mother's life) that abortion is evil? Or is those examples just a distraction?
Yes, I agree with this. If the pregnancy occurred due to a consensual act, then abortion is evil.
Cases of rape is where it gets complicated. The fetus exists because of an act of brutality, so why punish the woman (possibly a teen) further by forcing her to take a fetus to term and deliver it. Of course, women can lie and say that they were raped when they weren't, just to get the "privilege" of an abortion.
Of course, women can lie and say that they were raped when they weren't, just to get the "privilege" of an abortion.
Easy enough to require at least a police report.
Yes, I agree that requiring a police report would be an appropriate requirement, due to a crime being committed.
Uhm, their parents?
I don’t know if I heard it right but I think it was a Texas state senator that said that since life starts at conception that the responsibilities of the father also begin then to and that the father is going to be on the hook for financial obligations even during pregnancy. That’s a legit change. Maybe women and now men might pay more attention to the outcomes of their actions since the OODA is so much shorter now.
The inherent problem is that the left has been trying to use the court to get the outcomes that they want and can’t get through the legislatures either slowly or want it all right now. That is the basis of all of our problems. They come up with a end point and then they use legally gobbledygook to justify that endpoint.
That is how you end up with terrible law and precedent like we’ve gotten from all these 1960s social cases. Instead of it going through some kind of legislative process like in Europe, that was short-circuited by the left using the courts to legislate.
We have now seen the folly of this path. The conservatives on the court are trying to write this short circuiting of our constitutional system. The very fact that people think that Thomases opinion means that he is against those things like interracial marriage, gay marriage, shove it up your butt or whatever in the bedroom, don’t understand that he is just saying that there is not a right for that in the constitution. That doesn’t mean that you are against it. It just means that the people have to legislate, or a constitutional amendments when appropriate, to add these rights.
This rights under every shadow and rock, lead to the stupidity of saying that people have a right to healthcare, which is the enslavement of someone to provide your right.
Unfortunately the legislative system has been broken and the left has tried to go around it through the courts. This leads to even less reason to find legislative solutions to these things, when you can try to win everything through the courts. Well they lost out on that strategy and now they’re crying.
These rulings may be the most important to preserving our democracy going forward. Because now we have the impetus to find true compromise and solutions in the middle rather than electing extremists who will never solve anything. Democracy dies when it’s dictated by black robes. Sometime in the future people will be amazed when they realize that these decisions were to take the power away from the people actually making the decisions. When has that ever happened before?
Welcome to the renaissance of democracy.
We don’t have a democracy though, we’re supposed to be a republic. I agree with most everything else you said though. It’s important that we call it what it is supposed to be and use the right words. The left has used words like democracy and rights for so long, they’ve perverted people’s way of thinking.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Here’s how:
Abortion is the most powerful form of ritual murder ever created. Why is abortion the most powerful form of human ritual sacrifice? It entails the most defenseless victims conceivable (the unborn) being murdered by the very persons most duty-bound to love and protect them from harm; their own mothers.
These ritual murders, which society misnames, “abortion” are, furthermore, carried out in a nonchalant and routinized fashion exclusively to facilitate hedonistic apathy, laziness and convenience; symbolically placing a moment of vaginal pleasure above the value of an entire lifetime’s worth of a living, breathing human being’s consciousness.
In short, Satan and his servants love abortion, because it symbolizes evil within cruelty within absolute selfishness. It proffers that a fleeting moment of genital contractions means more than human life itself; and it does this using the greatest symbols of love and compassion (mothers and doctors), Satanically inverted into spiritually numbed, unfeeling, clinical executioners.
But, as long as GDP is up, who cares about any of that, right?
You wanna put a penis in your mouth? Do it. You wanna carpet munch? Do it. You wanna marry Steve and Fred? Do it. You wanna marry Sally and Nancy? Do it. You wanna carry a SAW to Starbucks? Do it. I'm all for personal freedom when the behavior or sin is against one's own self. Each of us has to answer for our decisions that effect only us as individuals.
You wanna murder the innocent unborn fetus inside you because you were too irresponsible to use proper birth control? Negative Ghostrider. No woman, in any country, under any law, on any continent, on any planet, has the right to commit murder. Period. That is a sin committed on another person and we should fight to prevent or eliminate that. At all costs.
THIS, RIGHT ****ING HERE!!!!^^^^^^^^^ you two are so right.
Only thing I would change, I don’t care if you sword fight, but I don’t want you trying to push it on me or my kid. Keep your mental sickness to yourself.
That and I want to carry SAMs, not a SAW.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I would also add, and it’s something I fight with, that when it comes to rape, health of the mother, or the baby not being able to be born alive or survive after birth, then abortion should be an option.
I don’t think it’s right to make a woman carry a baby to term, if she was raped.
On a side note, my wife had our 4yr old son in the car yesterday evening and drove by a bunch of pissed off pro unborn baby murders protesting in front of the courthouse. My son looked at them and asked in a super excited voice “Is that a parade?” Broke my heart to hear that. I’m so glad he’ll never know what they were wanting to do. The innocence of life is so precious and needs to be protected. They deserve us to fight for their right to live.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Outlander Systems
06-25-22, 19:35
Amen.
They deserve us to fight for their right to live.
So we can agree that in all cases except rape and incest (and presumably a realistic threat to the mother's life) that abortion is evil? Or is those examples just a distraction?
Haven't kept up today, at a 3 gun. So I don't know who believes what about this. BUT, NO, I strenuously disagree with this. MURDER is MURDER. Incest and rape babies are human beings and their lives are as important as anyone else. Do we punish the child for the sins of the fathers...No...that's a gross injustice. So, really it comes down to a gross inconsistency in moral outlook. Some lives are more important than other lives. The argument of the pro-abort. "The life of the mother" is another pro-abort argument. In modern times women don't face some sort of dilemma that they can't get medical help to save both the baby and the mother. It's a red herring. In these difficult situations all the help that can be mustered should be provide to help the mother, first, to understand that it's a baby, a human being, second, society, individuals will be there to help them get through. There are rape and incest babies alive today because the mother understood the right thing to do. Murder never ever makes things better, there are MUCH MUCH better ways. Not even a mention of you know who.
Pentagon says the scotus can cram it...man, talk about fubar.
https://mobile.twitter.com/BNNBreaking/status/1540778428798234624
Outlander Systems
06-25-22, 21:55
Principalities and Powers.
The wicked never rest.
So we can agree that in all cases except rape and incest (and presumably a realistic threat to the mother's life) that abortion is evil? Or is those examples just a distraction?
I believe "at some point" that collection of "cells" becomes an unborn human, but I don't think we will ever see strong consensus on when that occurs. This is complicated by the nature of biology that doesn't adhere to a strict developmental rate and a somewhat incomplete knowledge of when things like sentience occurs.
The whole issue is messy even without religion and politics.
The Dumb Gun Collector
06-25-22, 23:14
I believe "at some point" that collection of "cells" becomes an unborn human, but I don't think we will ever see strong consensus on when that occurs. This is complicated by the nature of biology that doesn't adhere to a strict developmental rate and a somewhat incomplete knowledge of when things like sentience occurs.
The whole issue is messy even without religion and politics.
I think if people didn't have an interest in exterminating their children it wouldn't be so hard. I think, without this issue, everyone would select conception because it is the safest bet.
Yes, I agree with this. If the pregnancy occurred due to a consensual act, then abortion is evil.
Cases of rape is where it gets complicated. The fetus exists because of an act of brutality, so why punish the woman (possibly a teen) further by forcing her to take a fetus to term and deliver it. Of course, women can lie and say that they were raped when they weren't, just to get the "privilege" of an abortion.
The logic is sound, and honestly, I'm still OK with that being the commonly exploited loophole. Just taking away the veil of legality from a procedure that ends a life would have a profound chilling effect overall, even after mandatory reporting is removed from the equation.
It would be entirely enough that convenience clinics existing for the primary purpose of this would disappear.
Don't for a moment believe that (un)Planned Parenthood, if they existed to only provide the myriad of other women's services they claim to, would ever find themselves having to ask for a single taxpayer dollar to fulfill that mission.
I think if people didn't have an interest in exterminating their children it wouldn't be so hard. I think, without this issue, everyone would select conception because it is the safest bet.
Like I said earlier, if we were actually a responsible, advanced western society, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. Problem is we have created a society so permissive, it tolerates people acting like children well into adulthood.
Principalities and Powers.
It's not too hard to tell who's the tools of these principalties and powers, just look at how life is so nuanced.
Haven't kept up today, at a 3 gun. So I don't know who believes what about this. BUT, NO, I strenuously disagree with this. MURDER is MURDER. Incest and rape babies are human beings and their lives are as important as anyone else. Do we punish the child for the sins of the fathers...No...that's a gross injustice. So, really it comes down to a gross inconsistency in moral outlook. Some lives are more important than other lives. The argument of the pro-abort. "The life of the mother" is another pro-abort argument. In modern times women don't face some sort of dilemma that they can't get medical help to save both the baby and the mother. It's a red herring. In these difficult situations all the help that can be mustered should be provide to help the mother, first, to understand that it's a baby, a human being, second, society, individuals will be there to help them get through. There are rape and incest babies alive today because the mother understood the right thing to do. Murder never ever makes things better, there are MUCH MUCH better ways. Not even a mention of you know who.
Tell me you don’t respect women AT ALL without saying you don’t respect women.
Seriously? A raped woman should be forced to carry the pregnancy to term? They really are nothing more than baby making factories to you are they? Have you ever seen what a woman goes through to deliver a baby in the best and happiest of circumstances?
Reasonable people can agree to disagree on when life truly begins because it’s not a black and white issue, but that point of view is disgusting. This is right up there with third trimester abortions in blatant contempt for another human being.
Tell me you don’t respect women AT ALL without saying you don’t respect women.
Seriously? A raped woman should be forced to carry the pregnancy to term? They really are nothing more than baby making factories to you are they? Have you ever seen what a woman goes through to deliver a baby in the best and happiest of circumstances?
Reasonable people can agree to disagree on when life truly begins because it’s not a black and white issue, but that point of view is disgusting. This is right up there with third trimester abortions in blatant contempt for another human being.
You're then a promoter of baby murder, some murder is ok with you, it's SIMPLE logic. Rape babies, now listen closely, are BABIES, they're human beings. Decent loving people look for ways NOT to murder others. Many women have done just that, because they know that the person in them was a little defenseless baby. They know the baby wasn't at fault. They overcame their hard situation. They did what was right.
I really don't care if a depraved person like yourself is disgusted. Like I told another fellow, wear it like a badge...I do.
You're then a promoter of baby murder, some murder is ok with you, it's SIMPLE logic. Rape babies, now listen closely, are BABIES, they're human beings. Decent loving people look for ways NOT to murder others. Many women have done just that, because they know that the person in them was a little defenseless baby. They know the baby wasn't at fault. They overcame their hard situation. They did what was right.
I really don't care if a depraved person like yourself is disgusted. Like I told another fellow, wear it like a badge...I do.
We’ll never see eye to eye on this and that’s probably a great reason for this to get kicked back to the states and MAYBE the country can finally move on…but doubt it.
Just for my curiousity:
Are you or have you ever been married?
Do you have any children? If so, any daughters?
What caused you to hold women in such contempt? Was it your relationship with your mother or your misogynistic religious beliefs? Or something else like being an incel?
And if this does all come back to the religion you want to force everyone else to live under (seriously, can’t stand statists that are cool with big government as long as it forces THEIR way in everyone else), how do you feel about Numbers chapter 5 where if infidelity is suspected a priest is supposed to make a woman drink magic dirt water that will force her to miscarry if she lied about it?
Oh no, we disagree, and the sky is blue.
The rest of this bloviating doesn't really deserve an answer.
Okay, leave the personal stuff out of it. Your issues are none of my business anyway.
But explain the Bible verse to me, please. If that’s in your holy book how can you use religion to justify your position?
Outlander Systems
06-26-22, 13:03
If a woman is raped, and is carrying the baby, and you shoot her, how many counts of murder are you charged on?
Okay, leave the personal stuff out of it. Your issues are none of my business anyway.
But explain the Bible verse to me, please. If that’s in your holy book how can you use religion to justify your position?
Everyone take a deep breath. It's just a thread on an internet discussion forum.
Sorry, I’m done. Nobody is changing their mind on anything here.
Reasonable people can agree to disagree on when life truly begins because it’s not a black and white issue, but that point of view is disgusting. This is right up there with third trimester abortions in blatant contempt for another human being.
The trouble is that reasonable people are becoming rare. Rape should not be a viable reproductive strategy.
Outlander Systems
06-26-22, 14:05
https://i.ibb.co/HGSPNyk/49-A88921-0990-4-E71-B671-C1-C39-E19-EBE4.jpg
The trouble is that reasonable people are becoming rare. Rape should not be a viable reproductive strategy.
The trouble is that reasonable people are becoming rare. Rape should not be a viable reproductive strategy.
Don't understand this sentence, could you please explain?
Don't understand this sentence, could you please explain?
I think he’s saying that not allowing an abortion for cases of rape isn’t reasonable.
At least that’s how I read it.
I think he’s saying that not allowing an abortion for cases of rape isn’t reasonable.
At least that’s how I read it.
Thank you, sounds about right, but I'll wait to see if he explains it himself to, just to be absolutely clear before I comment.
You’re drunk and know it. In fact, you went to bar specifically to get drunk. A friends texts you to see if you’re OK, and even the bartender tells you that he’ll pay for an Uber home.
But, you decide to drive down a curvy stretch of road anyway and go off the road into a lake, killing yourself and the baby in the back seat that no one else knew you had with you.
That’s Numbers 5.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-26-22, 16:11
The rape canard is a ruse used by the left. Either you are against abortion or you are not, how can you be for abortion in the case of rape but against it in other cases. If we let abortion for rapes, we have to have full legal, paid for abortions to the 40th week right before birth.
F That. Make me decide and I’ll say no abortions in the case of rape.
What woman is raped and doesn’t get emergency contraception?
Rape and Health of the mother are BS points made to muddy the waters as the TENS OF MILLIONS OF BABIES ABORTED.
The lefty’s don’t care about rape or incest victims. They are just trying to cast FUD.
While probably not relevant to our argument here, do a Shapiro and just turn it around on them- are you for limiting abortions only to rape and help of the mother? I’m sure that is what they are in the streets for.
I used to not care that much about abortion. 8+ years of Catholic eduction, and I really don’t remember them mentioning it more than once. But in the past 25 years, it has gone from “Safe, legal, rare” to the holy sacrament of the left Collectivist Church. A woman said she wanted to get pregnant with a conservatives baby so that she could abort it…. F that. Sometimes we define ourselves- and sometimes out enemies define us. We all know abortion is evil, awful, damaging- and my opposition to it is a reflection of those that would deny all those objective truths.
Outlander Systems
06-26-22, 16:18
Nailed it.
What woman is raped and doesn’t get emergency contraception?
The rape canard is a ruse used by the left. Either you are against abortion or you are not, how can you be for abortion in the case of rape but against it in other cases. If we let abortion for rapes, we have to have full legal, paid for abortions to the 40th week right before birth.
F That. Make me decide and I’ll say no abortions in the case of rape.
What woman is raped and doesn’t get emergency contraception?
Rape and Health of the mother are BS points made to muddy the waters as the TENS OF MILLIONS OF BABIES ABORTED.
The lefty’s don’t care about rape or incest victims. They are just trying to cast FUD.
While probably not relevant to our argument here, do a Shapiro and just turn it around on them- are you for limiting abortions only to rape and help of the mother? I’m sure that is what they are in the streets for.
I used to not care that much about abortion. 8+ years of Catholic eduction, and I really don’t remember them mentioning it more than once. But in the past 25 years, it has gone from “Safe, legal, rare” to the holy sacrament of the left Collectivist Church. A woman said she wanted to get pregnant with a conservatives baby so that she could abort it…. F that. Sometimes we define ourselves- and sometimes out enemies define us. We all know abortion is evil, awful, damaging- and my opposition to it is a reflection of those that would deny all those objective truths.
Less than .5% of abortions are due to rape/incest.
https://www.abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics/
Evil progressive pro abortion monsters throw that argument around and it holds no water whatsoever.
It’s not even a blip on the radar. Yet it’s the biggest point they have to make.
I’d be all for giving the chair to the person doing the raping. Not killing an innocent baby that resulted from a rape.
The Dumb Gun Collector
06-26-22, 18:37
Rape and Health of the mother are BS points made to muddy the waters as the TENS OF MILLIONS OF BABIES ABORTED.
I totally agree. It is all about finding some marginal cases, while in practice supporting recreational child murder.
Less than .5% of abortions are due to rape/incest.
https://www.abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics/
Evil progressive pro abortion monsters throw that argument around and it holds no water whatsoever.
It’s not even a blip on the radar. Yet it’s the biggest point they have to make.
I’d be all for giving the chair to the person doing the raping. Not killing an innocent baby that resulted from a rape.
Evidently a little bit of baby murder is ok with some.
Next on the list of disposal babies are down syndrome babies, or other less than perfect babies.
Evidently a little bit of baby murder is ok with some.
Next on the list of disposal babies are down syndrome babies, or other less than perfect babies.
Nobody in their right mind is pro abortion. That’s why it’s called pro choice unless the person speaking is being intentionally obtuse.
Okay so abortions due to rape are less than 1% of abortions? That’s fantastic. That doesn’t change the fact that a woman who has been through that type of trauma is the ONLY person who should have any say in what happens to her next.
Since you still want to engage on this care to explain the bible question from earlier?
BangBang77
06-26-22, 19:05
I will repeat what I posted earlier...
"No woman, in any country, under any law, on any continent, on any planet, has the right to commit murder. Period. That is a sin committed on another person and we should fight to prevent or eliminate that. At all costs."
You're either for abortion or against it. This wishy-washy conditional based approach is what is wrong with everything on this planet, including the church.
There is no "your" truth. There is no "my" truth. There is no "rainbow" truth. There is no "unicorn" truth. There is only THE truth.
Outlander Systems
06-26-22, 19:09
Absolutely howling laughing. Thanks, man. :lol:
recreational child murder.
Nobody in their right mind is pro abortion. That’s why it’s called pro choice unless the person speaking is being intentionally obtuse.
Okay so abortions due to rape are less than 1% of abortions? That’s fantastic. That doesn’t change the fact that a woman who has been through that type of trauma is the ONLY person who should have any say in what happens to her next.
Since you still want to engage on this care to explain the bible question from earlier?
I never said I wouldn't engage in this. You just kind of went off in a non-productive direction.
Pro-choice is the euphemism that pro-aborts like to use to sooth their consciences, that what they are really promoting and advocating is really really really bad practice.
There is nothing in Numbers 5 that says that drinking magic water will cause a miscarriage. When God separated the Jews from the heathen nations, to focus their mind and hearts upon him, he set up a highly symbolized religious cultus. The many symbols were also to distinguish the Jews from the polytheistic heathen around them. The law applied to both men and women equally. Their practice wasn't always perfect, of course. The sin of adultery required the witness of 2 or 3. This was dealing with secret adultery with no witnesses available, but the husband suspected something. I don't know the exact reason for the water and dust of the sanctuary, I would need to research that a bit more. But many times water symbolized God's presence with the people, so the drinking of the water would symbolize that God can see the inner thoughts. The dust would also reinforce that same idea, since the sanctuary was holy and sacred. The place where God put his name and met with the people through his priests. There is no magic in the water, in and of itself. They all knew this. Just like they would have known that sacrificing bulls and goats wouldn't literally take away their sin, but symbolized Christ to come and the shedding of his blood that would actually remove their sin. God is a God of using means (or practices) many times to teach his people lessons about sins, secret sins, holiness, obedience etc. If the woman was guilty, it wasn't the water that would cause here to rot, but God himself that would cause it, the water was just a symbol.
As for me, I've been married 31 years this time, I and my first wife were unbelievers and destroyed our marriage. Although as the man in the family the burden of responsibility rests primarily with me. I have talked to my present wife about these things, and no, we would not get an abortion. It strikes hard in my heart because my father abandoned my mother and me before I was born. If God would bring this trial into my and my beloved wife's life, we would lean heavily upon Jesus to see us through, but we will not commit murder to escape the trial. If it was too much for us, we would consider adoption. But I'm of the mind to love the child and give him/her a shot at life. Not to abandoned him/her like I was. I do have a daughter and have taught the way of the LORD according to my abilities to her. I love both my wife and daughter and I teach this "way" because I do love they.
I'm a Christian, Jesus is called the King of kings, and the Lord of lords for a reason. Nations will serve him or perish. Many nation have already perished in history. We do not advocated violence to "force people" into our mold. That's God's business. Government is about laws and laws are about what is moral. God is about changing people, if abortion winds up on the ash heap of history, where it belongs, it will be because God has caused a change in the people. But sometimes God is about judgement, and removing restraints from sinners. As far as I'm concerned it is God who moved upon the 6 justices to remove this vile ruling, whether they believe it or not, and I am exceedingly glad. But it's only a start.
Don't understand this sentence, could you please explain?
So that I am not accused of creating contriving a straw man I shall quote:
That being said, so as to clarify where I stand and what I fundamentally believe, I believe with all my heart that human life begins at conception. From the moment the sperm joins the egg, life is brought to bear. My Bible tells me that each life is created in the image of God. Who am I to decide when that is? Even if I am wrong, I prefer to err on the side of caution.
"No woman, in any country, under any law, on any continent, on any planet, has the right to commit murder. Period. That is a sin committed on another person and we should fight to prevent or eliminate that. At all costs."
You're either for abortion or against it. This wishy-washy conditional based approach is what is wrong with everything on this planet, including the church.
Combined this proposes that even emergency contraception after a rape is murder and should be punished as such under law. The natural consequence of this is that rape would becomes a low cost path to reproduction. It would also mean that many couples who have used vitro fertilization are guilty of mass murder.
I view this as devoid of reason, morally reprehensible, and biblically unsupportable. I have taken a stand against abortion, decrying its depravity and describing it as one of the greatest issues and moral failures of our time, and been mocked for that on this forum. It is because I feel as strongly as I do that I am appalled by those who conflate the slow living dismemberment of a baby as it struggles to flee, for greed and selfishness, with a victim of rape taking a pill to prevent implantation.
I have more to say but no time left today.
So that I am not accused of creating contriving a straw man I shall quote:
Combined this proposes that even emergency contraception after a rape is murder and should be punished as such under law. The natural consequence of this is that rape would becomes a low cost path to reproduction. It would also mean that many couples who have used vitro fertilization are guilty of mass murder.
I view this as devoid of reason, morally reprehensible, and biblically unsupportable. I have taken a stand against abortion, decrying its depravity and describing it as one of the greatest issues and moral failures of our time, and been mocked for that on this forum. It is because I feel as strongly as I do that I am appalled by those who conflate the slow living dismemberment of a baby as it struggles to flee, for greed and selfishness, with a victim of rape taking a pill to prevent implantation.
I have more to say but no time left today.
Again, I have no idea what you mean by "low cost way to reproduction". How is the cost low and for whom????????
So taking human pesticides to stop implantation is not the taking of innocent life? If that is your position, it seems that since it is less grisly in your mind then it has the approval of Jesus Christ. It also seems that the rape victim by your reasoning has an exemption from the Lord to take an easier path, worldly path and the magistrate is duty bound before the Lord to help in all this with his laws. To protect the creating of babies in mass, discarding some and using others, and you think all of this has the approval of an infinitely righteous God? Is it life at conception or not? If life, your position can not possibly be defended from the scriptures. You have simply lost your way.
This again confirms that the present state of Christ's church is a shambles...but as the Lord wills. Chastisement is real.
I view this as devoid of reason, morally reprehensible, and biblically unsupportable.
Actually you can use the bible to support just about anything. You can even go with nothing more than the 10 commandments and arrive at a complete prohibition against abortion, you simply have to include it with murder. It isn't mentioned in the bible or the 10 commandments because it didn't exist at the time and nobody could foresee medical procedures such as abortion. The bible and, more importantly the 10 commandments are a product of their time.
Hell I could simply interpret abortion to be an act of witchcraft and I'd have complete biblical support. I can probably come up with a dozen other biblical prohibitions against abortion.
Actually you can use the bible to support just about anything. You can even go with nothing more than the 10 commandments and arrive at a complete prohibition against abortion, you simply have to include it with murder. It isn't mentioned in the bible or the 10 commandments because it didn't exist at the time and nobody could foresee medical procedures such as abortion. The bible and, more importantly the 10 commandments are a product of their time.
Hell I could simply interpret abortion to be an act of witchcraft and I'd have complete biblical support. I can probably come up with a dozen other biblical prohibitions against abortion.
The 10 commandments are a reflection of God's righteousness, so they are timeless. I'm pretty sure that abortions were being performed in heathen nations at the time and the ancient Jews would have been aware of them. Infanticide was practiced during ancient times. The bible records that pharaoh practiced it during the Jews enslavement.
You are right that it is not hard to deduce just from the 6th commandment that zero murders are allowed. If it is life we are not to take it unjustly.
Haven't kept up today, at a 3 gun. So I don't know who believes what about this. BUT, NO, I strenuously disagree with this. MURDER is MURDER. Incest and rape babies are human beings and their lives are as important as anyone else. Do we punish the child for the sins of the fathers...No...that's a gross injustice. So, really it comes down to a gross inconsistency in moral outlook. Some lives are more important than other lives. The argument of the pro-abort. "The life of the mother" is another pro-abort argument. In modern times women don't face some sort of dilemma that they can't get medical help to save both the baby and the mother. It's a red herring. In these difficult situations all the help that can be mustered should be provide to help the mother, first, to understand that it's a baby, a human being, second, society, individuals will be there to help them get through. There are rape and incest babies alive today because the mother understood the right thing to do. Murder never ever makes things better, there are MUCH MUCH better ways. Not even a mention of you know who.I will give an amen to that.
I am an abolitionist.
Christ is King, and he shall reign for ever and ever more
Soli Deo Gloria
Pentagon says the scotus can cram it...man, talk about fubar.
https://mobile.twitter.com/BNNBreaking/status/1540778428798234624
The twitter link doesn't open for me, but this link shows how ridiculous the left's opposition to the Supreme Court's ruling is. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-24/pentagon-under-pressure-after-supreme-court-s-abortion-decision
Takeaways:
Military doctors cannot perform abortions, nor does Tricare pay for abortions " because of the Hyde Amendment of 1976, which prohibits the use of federal dollars for abortions unless the life of the mother is at risk."
"The court’s decision could make it even harder to attract new service members with some recruits wary of being based in states where reproductive rights are at greater risk." Since the military has not funded or performed abortions since 1976, will that really be a factor?
"Asking for leave can put women at a disadvantage on performance evaluations -- especially if they are based overseas in places where abortion is banned" If they are based overseas, how does the SC ruling matter?
Andy
teufelhund1918
06-27-22, 06:10
The hypocrisy on the left side of things is just amazing to me. I've heard Biden, Garland and other gubbamint lefties literally say that government should not interfere in a persons health care... Can we use their words when it comes to the good old vaccine mandate and obamacare?
ChattanoogaPhil
06-27-22, 06:12
As a constitutional matter it was the correct decision.
As a practical matter I'm not sure what the impact will be. From what little I've read on the subject over half of abortions are by medication. What are pro-life lawmakers going to do, expand the war on drugs? Pro-life lawmakers can surely make medical procedure abortion more difficult for some women to obtain. Will that significantly reduce abortions? Women of means... I don't think much will change. Women in poverty... absent easy access to free abortion procedure, perhaps there will be significantly more births among the poor.
Here in Chattanooga the only abortion clinic was torn down and made in to a memorial for the unborn 30 years ago. Women seeking an abortion must go elsewhere. It didn't require the Supreme Court to act one way or the other.
Meanwhile... in 2019 Tennessee lawmakers passed a so-called abortion trigger-ban if Roe was overturned. As expected, District Attorneys are already saying they won't prosecute. --- Nashville DA Glenn Funk: I will not prosecute any woman who chooses to have a medical procedure to terminate a pregnancy or any medical doctor who performs this procedure at the request of their patient. I will use my constitutional powers to protect women, health providers and those making personal health decisions.
Generally speaking, I think both the panic and celebration is overdone. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.
BoringGuy45
06-27-22, 06:56
As a constitutional matter it was the correct decision.
As a practical matter I'm not sure what the impact will be. From what little I've read on the subject over half of abortions are by medication. What are pro-life lawmakers going to do, expand the war on drugs? Pro-life lawmakers can surely make medical procedure abortion more difficult for some women to obtain. Will that significantly reduce abortions? Women of means... I don't think much will change. Women in poverty... absent easy access to free abortion procedure, perhaps there will be significantly more births among the poor.
Here in Chattanooga the only abortion clinic was torn down and made in to a memorial for the unborn 30 years ago. Women seeking an abortion must go elsewhere. It didn't require the Supreme Court to act one way or the other.
Meanwhile... in 2019 Tennessee lawmakers passed a so-called abortion trigger-ban if Roe was overturned. As expected, District Attorneys are already saying they won't prosecute. --- Nashville DA Glenn Funk: I will not prosecute any woman who chooses to have a medical procedure to terminate a pregnancy or any medical doctor who performs this procedure at the request of their patient. I will use my constitutional powers to protect women, health providers and those making personal health decisions.
Generally speaking, I think both the panic and celebration is overdone. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.
Doctors may not get prosecuted in their county, but that doesn't mean the TN AG's office won't file charges, or that the medical board won't yank doctor's licenses.
Help me out a bit... why is abortion do important? They are freaking out with anxiety... how many abortions do women have? I would guess 1 in a lifetime? Or is this a weekly thing for some? Do people nowadays nOt use a condom after hooking up on tinder?
They act like they are banning couches and bonbons.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-27-22, 08:44
It’s just common sense legislation…
The parallelisms and switch on gun versus baby-murder ‘rights’ is DELISH. Gun owners have been at the mercy of people passing laws that aren’t affected by the laws they pass. The gun grabbers don’t own guns, don’t think you should own guns, think people that own guns are evil, try all kinds of legal machinations to make it hard to get a gun.
Well, welcome to the party that we’ve played since 68!
Common sense legislation
Bans
At least they don’t have the FEDs trying to get them on BS charges, the FEDs will HELP them get around the equivalent of background checks.
Again, I have no idea what you mean by "low cost way to reproduction". How is the cost low and for whom????????
Low cost to the rapist of course. At great cost to the woman and society at large. How can I make this any more clear?
So taking human pesticides to stop implantation is not the taking of innocent life? If that is your position, it seems that since it is less grisly in your mind then it has the approval of Jesus Christ.
To protect the creating of babies in mass, discarding some and using others, and you think all of this has the approval of an infinitely righteous God? Is it life at conception or not? If life, your position can not possibly be defended from the scriptures.
I do not presume to speak for God. Do you? Your assertion that mixing sperm and eggs in a dish is "creating babies in mass" is not scriptural. Will you teach as doctrine commandments of your own creation? Matthew 15:9
Abortionists lie to women and tell them that a tiny baby with hands, feet and a face is just a lump of tissue because they know that many a woman given the chance to see these features growing inside her and listen to the heartbeat of her child will reject abortion. They pour out violence and vitriol on pregnancy resource centers because they tell women the truth. Even in this age many have the natural affection (2 Timothy 3:3) to recognize what is right. Do you not believe this natural affection is from God? Yet what natural affection can you elicit for a blastocyst? No reasonable observer would identify it as a baby, even under a microscope.
It isn't mentioned in the bible or the 10 commandments because it didn't exist at the time and nobody could foresee medical procedures such as abortion. The bible and, more importantly the 10 commandments are a product of their time.
Abortion is not a medical procedure: it treats no ailment. A pregnancy may be terminated for actual medical reasons but this is not done by destroying the fetus; every effort may be made to save its life with the technology available.
Silphium was widely used in antiquity around the Mediterranean.
Hell I could simply interpret abortion to be an act of witchcraft and I'd have complete biblical support. I can probably come up with a dozen other biblical prohibitions against abortion.
The bible is forthright about bestiality (Leviticus 18:23) so what reason is there to assume it would obfuscate abortion? Allowing for figures of speech of the period the book reads literally. Corrupt men apply occult interpretation and numerology to deceive.
Help me out a bit... why is abortion do important? They are freaking out with anxiety... how many abortions do women have? I would guess 1 in a lifetime? Or is this a weekly thing for some? Do people nowadays nOt use a condom after hooking up on tinder?
They act like they are banning couches and bonbons.
I'm guessing you don't get out much. For me the record is 8, I knew a single female who had 8 abortions at last count. Severe alcoholic who would have sex for alcohol. About a month later when she realized she was pregnant, she'd get an abortion because you can't trade sex for alcohol when you are 7 months pregnant. I don't think any of those kids would have survived anyway, they'd have died of severe alcohol poisoning before they ever were born.
For all I know she is up to 10 at this point.
Abortion is not a medical procedure: it treats no ailment. A pregnancy may be terminated for actual medical reasons but this is not done by destroying the fetus; every effort may be made to save its life with the technology available.
Boob implants are a medical procedure that doesn't treat an ailment. Feel free to substitute "medical abortion" if it makes you feel better but the "medical procedures" that exist that "treat no ailment" are too numerous to list.
Boob implants are a medical procedure that doesn't treat an ailment. Feel free to substitute "medical abortion" if it makes you feel better but the "medical procedures" that exist that "treat no ailment" are too numerous to list.
If we are going to call it a "medical procedure", may I suggest "illegitimate medical procedure".
Low cost to the rapist of course. At great cost to the woman and society at large. How can I make this any more clear?
I do not presume to speak for God. Do you? Your assertion that mixing sperm and eggs in a dish is "creating babies in mass" is not scriptural. Will you teach as doctrine commandments of your own creation? Matthew 15:9
Abortionists lie to women and tell them that a tiny baby with hands, feet and a face is just a lump of tissue because they know that many a woman given the chance to see these features growing inside her and listen to the heartbeat of her child will reject abortion. They pour out violence and vitriol on pregnancy resource centers because they tell women the truth. Even in this age many have the natural affection (2 Timothy 3:3) to recognize what is right. Do you not believe this natural affection is from God? Yet what natural affection can you elicit for a blastocyst? No reasonable observer would identify it as a baby, even under a microscope.
Abortion is not a medical procedure: it treats no ailment. A pregnancy may be terminated for actual medical reasons but this is not done by destroying the fetus; every effort may be made to save its life with the technology available.
Silphium was widely used in antiquity around the Mediterranean.
The bible is forthright about bestiality (Leviticus 18:23) so what reason is there to assume it would obfuscate abortion? Allowing for figures of speech of the period the book reads literally. Corrupt men apply occult interpretation and numerology to deceive.
This is some of the most fallacious unscriptural thinking I think I've seen in quite a while from somebody who professes the faith.
No, you weren't too clear, especially with the idea that rape in these United States is about rapists raping women to reproduce. In the context of the US, I highly doubt that's what rapists are doing....trying to reproduce on the cheap. I might buy that argument for, say, Nigeria, where you have Islamists running around stealing Christian girls to rape and reproduce. Here, not so much.
So I'll start with the "vain worship", presuming to speak for God argument. Guess what, you just contradicted yourself, by, you guessed it, speaking for God. Trying to call another brother to account, like you just did and essentially paraphrasing the scriptures is in fact speaking for God, you just told me in your own way that I broke a commandment, that is being God's mouth piece. Your accusation is false, but I don't have a problem at all with the idea of "speaking for God" as long as you're speaking the truth. In fact, he calls us to "speak the truth in love", that would be his truth we're speaking. Do you believe telling people about the gospel of Christ is "presuming to speak for God"? As for, teaching the commandments of men argument, you weren't particularly specific, so I'm going to say that it has something to do with my assertion that the bible doesn't allow for any murder and that since in your words, the just conceived baby is a "blastocyst". So, it really sounds like you don't believe a "blastocyst" is a new human being. Amazing isn't it that your view seems to be really similar to the most rabid pro-abort on the planet? Let's see, the "blastocyst" now has a completely unique DNA profile, that would be a human profile, the "blastocyst" is already, within hours and a few days, building a body with all it's, mind boggling, complexity. Your next argument is that women can't have affection for their "blastocyst". This is about the most ridicules argument of all. The Christian women I have known and do know, don't think that when they become pregnant that they are carrying a "blastocyst", to a woman, they all believe and know they are carrying a baby. And guess what??? They LOVE their coming babies. I've seen women cry and lament and mourn for their miscarried "blastocyst".
Let me just finish this up by reminding you that making human beings is the special providence of God, Psalm 139, especially verses 14 and 15. Just do a search of the word womb. But now days we have Christians that have bought into the mad scientists view that he can create "blastocysts" and put them on ice for the parents and use them as needed, and if they die or fizzle out, well isn't that a shame, they weren't really babies. You have bought the lie of the world, you have lost your way on this one.
By the way, speaking of Matthew 15, how many elements of your Sunday worship are the commandments of men?
If we are going to call it a "medical procedure", may I suggest "illegitimate medical procedure".
That is simply adding philosophy to an already muddied topic, so let me cut to the chase. Vivisection is a "medical procedure" by definition of the words, it might have have almost zero real world benefit unless you are documenting the real time death of humans from some horrible virus, it might possibly be one of the most reprehensible thing a human has thought up to do to another human, probably ranks right up there with kidnapping humans for purpose of cannibalism as one of the few acts that probably removes the actual distinction of what qualifies a human as a human but it is still technically a "medical procedure."
Obviously not all "medical procedures" serve a meaningful purpose. Ironically the medical part of the definition does give us some "real world" guidance with things like abortion. The Hippocratic Oath simplified says "do no harm" so that would from a medical ethics standpoint eliminate most abortions except in cases of forced pregnancy, undue risk of injury to the mother, unborn or both. We are evolved enough that for everyone else a 8th grade level of responsibility and things like "the morning after" pill, not to mention every known form of birth control, the need for an abortion is eliminated and all but the most radical extremes on both sides of the debate would be satisfied.
I'd wager 90% of abortions didn't need to happen and if providing birth control, education and accepting that lots of people are simply going to be sexually active from the time they hit puberty then I think that would be preferable. Then there is the elephant in the room, almost without exception I think every member of this forum would willfully disobey any SCOTUS ruling that banned firearms, now what do you imagine they'd do if they found themselves unexpectedly pregnant and didn't agree with the condition of pregnancy or a federal law that prevented them from ending it?
So I don't think the SC has done anything to end abortion, they have simply defined where it is legal and informed people where they must go in order to get an abortion.
That is simply adding philosophy to an already muddied topic, so let me cut to the chase. Vivisection is a "medical procedure" by definition of the words, it might have have almost zero real world benefit unless you are documenting the real time death of humans from some horrible virus, it might possibly be one of the most reprehensible thing a human has thought up to do to another human, probably ranks right up there with kidnapping humans for purpose of cannibalism as one of the few acts that probably removes the actual distinction of what qualifies a human as a human but it is still technically a "medical procedure."
Obviously not all "medical procedures" serve a meaningful purpose. Ironically the medical part of the definition does give us some "real world" guidance with things like abortion. The Hippocratic Oath simplified says "do no harm" so that would from a medical ethics standpoint eliminate most abortions except in cases of forced pregnancy, undue risk of injury to the mother, unborn or both. We are evolved enough that for everyone else a 8th grade level of responsibility and things like "the morning after" pill, not to mention every known form of birth control, the need for an abortion is eliminated and all but the most radical extremes on both sides of the debate would be satisfied.
I'd wager 90% of abortions didn't need to happen and if providing birth control, education and accepting that lots of people are simply going to be sexually active from the time they hit puberty then I think that would be preferable. Then there is the elephant in the room, almost without exception I think every member of this forum would willfully disobey any SCOTUS ruling that banned firearms, now what do you imagine they'd do if they found themselves unexpectedly pregnant and didn't agree with the condition of pregnancy or a federal law that prevented them from ending it?
So I don't think the SC has done anything to end abortion, they have simply defined where it is legal and informed people where they must go in order to get an abortion.
I really don't think adding "philosophy" to the subject is avoidable, it's the way we are. Also, I don't think that philosophy in and of itself is the problem, it's not like we can escape a category of thinking like...what is moral. Even the most wicked of us think in moral categories. It's bad philosophy that's the problem.
As for Roe, I said it is but a step. I knew the slaughter would continue and said so. It will be interesting to see states set themselves apart on this issue. We saw it happening before Roe went down, leading eventually to it overturn. Roe going down seems to be the intolerable shot across the bow for the left and they love violence.
As for what people will do with their lives concerning "sexuality", I obviously have no control over that. All I can do is tell them, when the opportunity presents itself, there is a different way, a good way.
I really don't think adding "philosophy" to the subject is avoidable, it's the way we are. Also, I don't think that philosophy in and of itself is the problem, it's not like we can escape a category of thinking like...what is moral. Even the most wicked of us think in moral categories. It's bad philosophy that's the problem.
The point I attempted to make is the "moral" component should already exist with The Hippocratic Oath.
ChattanoogaPhil
06-28-22, 06:47
Help me out a bit... why is abortion do important? They are freaking out with anxiety... how many abortions do women have? I would guess 1 in a lifetime? Or is this a weekly thing for some? Do people nowadays nOt use a condom after hooking up on tinder?
They act like they are banning couches and bonbons.
I think much of it is financial. A young lady in her early 20s with little means of supporting a child might view pregnancy as terrifying. That same woman in her early 30s, more financially established, might view pregnancy as wonderful. Over the past couple decades there's been a significant shift in age among women giving birth.
Averageman
06-28-22, 07:35
I am amazed that so many Americans have so little knowledge of how the Constitution works.
I have young female Family members up in arms about losing their "Constitutional Right" to an abortion.
I actually tried to explain to my niece just how rediculous she appears claiming abortion is a right and how the Supreme Court "took" it away from her.
Of course I didn't get a reply to my explanation and now she's arguing on Facebook with my Mother about it.
PSA for all:
The politically correct term at the moment is “termination of pregnancy” in place of “abortion.”
Can’t trigger anyone.
In the context of the US, I highly doubt that's what rapists are doing....trying to reproduce on the cheap. I might buy that argument for, say, Nigeria, where you have Islamists running around stealing Christian girls to rape and reproduce. Here, not so much.
If you got your way it would happen here too.
So I'll start with the "vain worship", presuming to speak for God argument. Guess what, you just contradicted yourself, by, you guessed it, speaking for God.
Falsehood and lies. I am not making anything up, but you are.
Trying to call another brother to account, like you just did and essentially paraphrasing the scriptures is in fact speaking for God,
No, it is not. Again you lie. I drew a parallel that you might consider your position. Do you deny that Jesus condemned "Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men" in the verse I cited?
Your accusation is false, but I don't have a problem at all with the idea of "speaking for God" as long as you're speaking the truth. In fact, he calls us to "speak the truth in love", that would be his truth we're speaking.
His truth indeed, NOT YOURS. Show me from scripture where God says that mixing sperm and eggs in a dish making babies and discarding the product is murder. You have decided that you know the unrevealed mind of God in this matter.
Do you believe telling people about the gospel of Christ is "presuming to speak for God"?
If anyone fabricates another "gospel" it surely is. See Galatians 1. "But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed."
So, it really sounds like you don't believe a "blastocyst" is a new human being.
The bible does not tell us when and how a soul is created or joined to a body. A traditional belief held that it was at quickening. Modern technology allows us to observe a heartbeat and brain function far earlier than that. Some do not believe in a soul at all.
"A completely unique DNA profile" is not the measure of a soul; is it ethical to kill one identical twin because the other remains? Absurd.
Your next argument is that women can't have affection for their "blastocyst". This is about the most ridicules argument of all. The Christian women I have known and do know, don't think that when they become pregnant that they are carrying a "blastocyst", to a woman, they all believe and know they are carrying a baby. And guess what??? They LOVE their coming babies. I've seen women cry and lament and mourn for their miscarried "blastocyst".
You are in no position to call anything ridiculous after writing the above. You are spewing words without comprehending them.
Here’s how:
Abortion is the most powerful form of ritual murder ever created. Why is abortion the most powerful form of human ritual sacrifice? It entails the most defenseless victims conceivable (the unborn) being murdered by the very persons most duty-bound to love and protect them from harm; their own mothers.
These ritual murders, which society misnames, “abortion” are, furthermore, carried out in a nonchalant and routinized fashion exclusively to facilitate hedonistic apathy, laziness and convenience; symbolically placing a moment of vaginal pleasure above the value of an entire lifetime’s worth of a living, breathing human being’s consciousness.
In short, Satan and his servants love abortion, because it symbolizes evil within cruelty within absolute selfishness. It proffers that a fleeting moment of genital contractions means more than human life itself; and it does this using the greatest symbols of love and compassion (mothers and doctors), Satanically inverted into spiritually numbed, unfeeling, clinical executioners.
But, as long as GDP is up, who cares about any of that, right?Brilliant insight, bro. Well done.
If you got your way it would happen here too.
Falsehood and lies. I am not making anything up, but you are.
No, it is not. Again you lie. I drew a parallel that you might consider your position. Do you deny that Jesus condemned "Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men" in the verse I cited?
His truth indeed, NOT YOURS. Show me from scripture where God says that mixing sperm and eggs in a dish making babies and discarding the product is murder. You have decided that you know the unrevealed mind of God in this matter.
If anyone fabricates another "gospel" it surely is. See Galatians 1. "But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed."
The bible does not tell us when and how a soul is created or joined to a body. A traditional belief held that it was at quickening. Modern technology allows us to observe a heartbeat and brain function far earlier than that. Some do not believe in a soul at all.
"A completely unique DNA profile" is not the measure of a soul; is it ethical to kill one identical twin because the other remains? Absurd.
You are in no position to call anything ridiculous after writing the above. You are spewing words without comprehending them.Imho, you are the one coming off as ridiculous bro.
There are plenty of scriptures that support the fact that life begins in the womb, and that this life is precious.
God gives us discernment, and the overwhelming majority of Christian, who have the Holy spirit, agree that it is at conception.
New King James Version
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations.”
Jer 1:5
I could say more, but I don't think it would be fruitful.
Soli Deo Gloria
Imho, you are the one coming off as ridiculous bro.
There are plenty of scriptures that support the fact that life begins in the womb, and that this life is precious.
How could you possibly read anything I wrote as suggesting otherwise? To the contrary it is TomMcC asserting that mixing sperm and eggs in a dish is "creating babies in mass."
God gives us discernment, and the overwhelming majority of Christian, who have the Holy spirit, agree that it is at conception.
Please show me the major Christian denominations that believe IVF is multiple murder. Not merely immoral as I believe Roman Catholics hold, but murder punishable by death.
New King James Version
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations.”
This appears to speak to the preexistance and predestination. I think Exodus 21:22-24 is more germane.
SeriousStudent
06-28-22, 18:55
I have a great idea. Why don't some of you folks put each other on Ignore? We make it very easy to do here. Give it a whirl, I predict you'll love it. I know the rest of us certainly will enjoy the peaceful discussion.
I'm going to lock the thread for a while. because all we have here is folks screaming at each other. Seriously, not one of you is going to convince the other, or change each other's minds. Your positions are intractable.
If anyone opens another thread on this SCOTUS case, I'll lock it too.
Just. Stop.
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