View Full Version : Swimming. Did they make it harder to do recently?
I get this mostly left wing click bait feed as my home page when I open my work browser. I've noticed the heavy amount of reported drownings lately.
Most recent example of many... 3 adult males drowned saving a child. There's story after story. Goobers drown at our lakes in AZ here.
Are people too dumb to swim anymore?
You’d be surprised how many people don’t know how to actually swim. Add the urgency of an actual problem, you ride to the level of your training.
pointblank4445
07-05-22, 20:12
Good question.
My $0.02...at the risk of getting all nostalgic.
Used to be every other small town around here with 1k+ people had a public/park district pool that was the summer babysitter.
Back in the day you had to pass swim tests to enter the deep end, another to go off the diving board and earn your privilege to do certain things.
Swim lessons ran all the time for all levels and swim team/meets were popular.
When you became 15/16, you probably became a lifeguard by way of passing a 500m swim test for entry into a (then) 60-hour course.
That was summer in the 80's, 90's, and early 2000's
Pools are far less popular for a variety of reasons. Part is due to lack of lifeguards (though the requirements are now much lower) and having to contend with other things.
These small-town pools that used to be social hubs are slowly dying out.
It does seem that there's a shift away from aquatic activities for some reason.
Swimming is weird like that, some of us do it for fun...others struggle just to avoid death.
When the subject of the mentally ill man who drowned in (AZ?) in the river, I was shocked to learn how many of the people in my agency could not "swim" when we discussed this event as a group.
1) Lots of children never take ANY kind of physical fitness training in school any more, let alone an elective like swimming.
2) Certain demographics never have nor take the opportunity to swim.
3) Lots of liberal-leftists immediately want someone else (i.e., government) to DO something about it -- for the children (*sob*) -- just like gun control.
titsonritz
07-05-22, 21:22
My $0.02...at the risk of getting all nostalgic.
Used to be every other small town around here with 1k+ people had a public/park district pool that was the summer babysitter.
Back in the day you had to pass swim tests to enter the deep end, another to go off the diving board and earn your privilege to do certain things.
Swim lessons ran all the time for all levels and swim team/meets were popular.
When you became 15/16, you probably became a lifeguard by way of passing a 500m swim test for entry into a (then) 60-hour course.
That was summer in the 80's, 90's, and early 2000's
That was my summers in the 70's and early 80's. Mom dragged us kids to swimming lessons every year, it wasn't an option, just like school..."You are going, you are learning and I expect good grades." Hated it when I was a little kid, didn't want to get out of my warm bed to go get in a cold ass pool, but as the years went on and the classes clicked off, then came the swim team, swift water rescue and lifeguard...man o' man at 15/16+ there weren't many better place to be than the pool, river, lake or ocean.
It was the same deal with my kids, no option. They didn't take it quite as far as I did but they are both capable swimmers, son is big time into snow boarding and surfs on the off season, daughter was mentioning swim lessons for her 3 year old and live 1/2 a block from the local pool, so the granddaughter is doomed to forced education, too. Wouldn't trade all the fun for anything in the world, not to mention the lifesaving skill. It just blows me away people don't make a point to learn to swim, let alone send their children out in the world unprepared to do the same. Ignorance and fear, again, just like gun control.
Used to be that if you went to a North Carolina state college/university, you had to pass a swim test to graduate. Can't swim? Well, that's your 3 hour PE class. NC is second or third in the country for drowning, and that has not budged, even with the swim test requirement.
To me learning to swim has nothing to do with recreation and everything to do with knowing a lifesaving skill.
I get this mostly left wing click bait feed as my home page when I open my work browser. I've noticed the heavy amount of reported drownings lately.
Most recent example of many... 3 adult males drowned saving a child. There's story after story. Goobers drown at our lakes in AZ here.
Are people too dumb to swim anymore?
1) Lots of children never take ANY kind of physical fitness training in school any more, let alone an elective like swimming.
2) Certain demographics never have nor take the opportunity to swim.
3) Lots of liberal-leftists immediately want someone else (i.e., government) to DO something about it -- for the children (*sob*) -- just like gun control.
This. Greater numbers of kids are raised in areas without pools/lakes/outdoor programs or raised by people who don't do those things. (Then add stupidity, alcohol...)
It's a life skill. Our kids have been in the water since infancy.
I scanned the bait feed yesterday after posting this and found 2 stories where people drowned. Every summer here someone at the lake decides to take a short swim and then just goes under. I get alcohol being a factor, but good God. Even if you get a cramp or something... just float on your back until you recover.
We have a river and it attaches to a quarry. Every year there is a handful of drownings, almost always with 'less advantaged' people who weren't swimmers and who had no access to pools (almost all of the pools in our city cost something to get into).
Our beaches have been awful with rips this summer, already 10ish have drowned on the coast.
Getting into a rip and going into panic, I can kind of see.
On the flip side, there was a click bait (I didn't read) about a boat Capt. who fell overboard and swam 14 miles to safety. I'd love to safely test how far/long I could swim.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/charter-boat-captain-falls-overboard-swims-14-miles-without-lifejacket/ar-AAZecKw?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=983f3f30abb940efa5f41a7c91ed68dc
pointblank4445
07-06-22, 11:57
I scanned the bait feed yesterday after posting this and found 2 stories where people drowned. Every summer here someone at the lake decides to take a short swim and then just goes under. I get alcohol being a factor, but good God. Even if you get a cramp or something... just float on your back until you recover.
Google: "Drowning doesn't look like drowning".
Panic is also a weird thing. We were taught to never approach an active (conscious) drowning victim from the front and are taught escapes and kick-offs in the event the victim turns. Victims taking rescuers down with them is also a thing. There's a scene in The Guardian akin to this concept.
Weird things also just happen, case in point the a swimmer in the world championships just went down and was saved by her coach. She was obviously no novice.
I think we can safely say chalk this up to similar concepts of personal defense. Sometimes the untrained/unprepared get lucky. Sometimes the trained expert is unlucky. Best you can do is train up, be ready and be smart.
Panic is also a weird thing. We were taught to never approach an active (conscious) drowning victim from the front and are taught escapes and kick-offs in the event the victim turns. Victims taking rescuers down with them is also a thing.
Definitely have heard of both points.
Weird things also just happen, case in point the a swimmer in the world championships just went down and was saved by her coach. She was obviously no novice.
That whole event stinks to high hell. Since it's the 2nd time it has happened to the same swimmer, either she (the swimmer) is surrounded by imbeciles or this was a stunt. Her coach appears to be in love with her. Maybe I'm jaded, but that seems staged as hell.
pointblank4445
07-06-22, 12:31
That whole event stinks to high hell. Since it's the 2nd time it has happened to the same swimmer, either she (the swimmer) is surrounded by imbeciles or this was a stunt. Her coach appears to be in love with her. Maybe I'm jaded, but that seems staged as hell.
Perhaps...can't say I know (or really care).
I'll also give you a middle-aged man and daily lap swimmer up and have a grand mal seizure in the middle of his swim. I can speak on that one.
Perhaps...can't say I know (or really care).
Same here. But the media went hysterical for it.
titsonritz
07-06-22, 13:01
Getting into a rip and going into panic, I can kind of see.
On the flip side, there was a click bait (I didn't read) about a boat Capt. who fell overboard and swam 14 miles to safety. I'd love to safely test how far/long I could swim.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/charter-boat-captain-falls-overboard-swims-14-miles-without-lifejacket/ar-AAZecKw?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=983f3f30abb940efa5f41a7c91ed68dc
I have no doubt I could for miles if I had to, between back float and survival float and alternating easy stokes like the breast and side, one could go for days. If you go in clothed, lose the boots/shoes, take your pants off, knot at the end of the pant legs, open waist and swoop overhead to fill with air and straddle the crotch with your chest and allow the legs under your arms, repeat filling as needed...instant improvised life preserver. Would not waste energy treading water unless trying to make contact. Gee whiz, sure glad mom dragged my ass to those swimming lessons when I was a kid.
I have no doubt I could for miles if I had to, between back float and survival float and alternating easy stokes like the breast and side, one could go for days.
That's my thought. Maybe not "days", but damn... even as I'm getting older, I still feel like I could save myself and cover a good distance to get to safety. When I was younger and would go to the ocean, I'd already figgered out that if I got pulled away from shore, I'd lateral down until I could make my way back to land.
In the summers we often supported the Boy Scout Summer Camp Mile Swim with oversight swimmers / lifeguards in canoes and Zodiac boats. I'm not sure if it was for a separate merit badge or an Eagle Scout prerequisite, but we did some off-shore and in lakes.
In the summers we often supported the Boy Scout Summer Camp Mile Swim with oversight swimmers / lifeguards in canoes and Zodiac boats. I'm not sure if it was for a separate merit badge or an Eagle Scout prerequisite, but we did some off-shore and in lakes.
We were camping up at a small lake here in AZ and my kid and a bunch of kids wanted to swim across the lake (maybe 200 yards). I paddled a kayak next to them in case any kid struggled. None of them had a problem across or back.
You’d be surprised how many people don’t know how to actually swim. Add the urgency of an actual problem, you ride to the level of your training.
Is the % of people who can't swim also increasing? I bet it is, so that and the fact people are getting dumber, may explain it.
Is the % of people who can't swim also increasing? I bet it is, so that and the fact people are getting dumber, may explain it.
Kinda to my point. Another symptom of de-evolution. People can no longer drive stick, parallel park, remember that their kid is in the hot car, etc.
Kinda to my point. Another symptom of de-evolution. People can no longer drive stick, parallel park, remember that their kid is in the hot car, etc.
Darwin gonna Darwin bro. Can an entire country win a Darwin Award?
Darwin gonna Darwin bro. Can an entire country win a Darwin Award?
We could really rake off half the mouth breathing occupants of this country.
We could really rake off half the mouth breathing occupants of this country.
Visions of Rome dance in my head.
Straight Shooter
07-07-22, 11:43
One of the best things my parents did, was to make my 7 year old self and my 6 year old sis take professional swimming lessons.
I dont have kids...but Ive recommended that dozens of times to parents, I feel it is essential.
Quick story- Camp Lejuene Base swimming pool..circa 1985. As we were an Amphibious Assault unit..we had extensive pool time both in swimwear..but with FULL GEAR too.
Learned how to scoop water under a buttoned up cammy blouse to make an improvised floatation device. Learned a lot actually.
Also realized MANY blacks cant swim, dont want to learn to swim..and even under threat of Judicial punishment- WONT swim.
We had several dark greens..literally...CRY... about getting in over their heads. Some never did do it. We also had a simulator you got in and it shot you deep into the water and spun upside down, and you had to climb out to the surface, to simulate a helo crash. HELL NO they wouldnt do it. They took whatever punishment they were promised. Ive seen one guy almost drown someone else in a panic. We were trained to literally knock somebody out if we had to, to rescue them. I still would, if need be.
One of the best things my parents did, was to make my 7 year old self and my 6 year old sis take professional swimming lessons.
I dont have kids...but Ive recommended that dozens of times to parents, I feel it is essential.
Quick story- Camp Lejuene Base swimming pool..circa 1985. As we were an Amphibious Assault unit..we had extensive pool time both in swimwear..but with FULL GEAR too.
Learned how to scoop water under a buttoned up cammy blouse to make an improvised floatation device. Learned a lot actually.
Also realized MANY blacks cant swim, dont want to learn to swim..and even under threat of Judicial punishment- WONT swim.
We had several dark greens..literally...CRY... about getting in over their heads. Some never did do it. We also had a simulator you got in and it shot you deep into the water and spun upside down, and you had to climb out to the surface, to simulate a helo crash. HELL NO they wouldnt do it. They took whatever punishment they were promised. Ive seen one guy almost drown someone else in a panic. We were trained to literally knock somebody out if we had to, to rescue them. I still would, if need be.
Was that the swimming pool on Julian Smith down by 10th Marines?
Funniest story I had was a big ol' Samoan--a Samoan!!--who couldn't swim. He was also 6'4" and 230# with about 4% body fat. God knows he tried, the RDCs told him he had to make it to the end of the pool and back to pass after he tried the 50-yard flail. He held his breath and walked the bottom of the pool to the end, then back. He passed.
This is my take on blacks, and it is a vast, sweeping, overgeneralization: this is not racist. Most blacks cannot swim, not because they cannot be taught (humans are mammals, and all mammals can swim), but because most have never been exposed to water deeper than the puddles a fire hydrant or a hose can provide. They have not been in pools, lakes, rivers. Those whose parents who had access (to water and swim lessons), usually can, and quite well.
It's not a skin color thing, it's not a racial thing, it's not a genetic thing, it's an access thing.
My parents also made me take swimming lessons. I was never the fastest swimmer, but I was a strong swimmer.
This is my take on blacks, and it is a vast, sweeping, overgeneralization: this is not racist. Most blacks cannot swim, not because they cannot be taught (humans are mammals, and all mammals can swim), but because most have never been exposed to water deeper than the puddles a fire hydrant or a hose can provide. They have not been in pools, lakes, rivers. Those whose parents who had access (to water and swim lessons), usually can, and quite well.
It's not a skin color thing, it's not a racial thing, it's not a genetic thing, it's an access thing.
My parents also made me take swimming lessons. I was never the fastest swimmer, but I was a strong swimmer.In Special Forces I recall two stand-out black swimmers: the first was Chief Warrant Officer Charlie Simmons, "The Black Frog" from the Bronx. In our Okinawa pre-SCUBA classes he would often do the offshore-to-beach kilometer "Equipment Appreciation Swim" (where aspiring SCUBA divers learned to appreciate their mask, fins, and snorkel) in Speedos -- and typically beat the whole class.
https://i.redd.it/yp3vnmcsuj891.jpg
Another played water polo in college in Florida.
I had a man-crush on one of my black NCOs, a cut body-builder Infantryman who had served in the 82d, as a Black-hat instructor at Airborne School, and as President Bush's (41) tandem freefall pilot. I asked him why he'd never got his Ranger tab.
He answered, "Combat Water Survival Test, sir. You know brothers can't swim." He had drowned a number of times in pre-Ranger. His body fat composition was probably in the single digits.
titsonritz
07-07-22, 13:31
Growing up I didn't know about the "brothers can't swim" thing in part because this was my neighbor growing up and would swim in that pool on a regular basis...
Along with being a religious woman, she provided foster care for those who had been neglected
and mentally ill, and was an advocate for child welfare, clean water and other social issues.
Mrs. Perry was also a member of the Santa Rosa – Sonoma County Chapter of the NAACP and a
founding member of the Head Start Program in Santa Rosa. She also built the first pool for the
Black community on her property, which resulted in protests from the Ku Klux Klan. Mrs. Perry
bore the physical and emotional scars of racism, hatred and white supremacy, yet she
continued to be a leader and community builder.
https://srcity.org/DocumentCenter/View/31039/Marteal-Perry-Final?bidId=
A lot of bubba taught, muni-pool people know only one stroke - a pseudo-crawl. They try to keep their head completely up out of the water and only extend the arms half way forward taking many short inefficient pulls. It gets them across the pool so good enough. They don’t know how to rest at all. Treading water is double time again to keep the head dry. They try to emulate an air mattress for the back float.
When they discover that lakes are cold, rivers have currents and oceans have bigger waves, cold, and currents I’m surprised more don’t drown.
In Special Forces I recall two stand-out black swimmers: the first was Chief Warrant Officer Charlie Simmons, "The Black Frog" from the Bronx. In our Okinawa pre-SCUBA classes he would often do the offshore-to-beach kilometer "Equipment Appreciation Swim" (where aspiring SCUBA divers learned to appreciate their mask, fins, and snorkel) in Speedos -- and typically beat the whole class.
Another played water polo in college in Florida.
I had a man-crush on one of my black NCOs, a cut body-builder Infantryman who had served in the 82d, as a Black-hat instructor at Airborne School, and as President Bush's (41) tandem freefall pilot. I asked him why he'd never got his Ranger tab.
He answered, "Combat Water Survival Test, sir. You know brothers can't swim." He had drowned a number of times in pre-Ranger. His body fat composition was probably in the single digits.
Some of the best swimmers I knew in recon were black guys. THE best swimmer I knew in the military was a black SEAL. He was like Michael Phelps. Couldn't shoot worth shit, though.
I taught my boys to swim as toddlers in South Florida. We moved to Chicago when my boys were 3 and 5 and the neighbors had a pool party and everyone thought my kids were savant athletes. It was hilarious or maybe sad.
Later my kids were on a swim team, they hated it. I said you can quit when you can out swim me. I'm no savant but I did do some mini triathlons when I was a kid, so that took them a minute. Weak swimmers are dangerous.
PB
Some of the best swimmers I knew in recon were black guys. THE best swimmer I knew in the military was a black SEAL. He was like Michael Phelps. Couldn't shoot worth shit, though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7uXyfrmksM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7uXyfrmksM
That was great! I have never seen that! It makes me want to do it all over again, except for the getting up early and painful parts.
Jim Capers (black dude) is a legend in the community, as was Robert 'the gentle giant' Hughes (Hughes was a prolific swimmer and combat diver). These guys are there for sure.
P2Vaircrewman
07-08-22, 09:51
I learned to swim in grammar school. By age 14 I was a self taught scuba diver. Finally quit scuba at 70 because of health issues. Went through Navy survival swimming to become an aircrewman. I have always been comfortable in the water. I miss scuba diving, as soon as my head was underwater I felt really relaxed and calm, almost euphoric. It is as close to being weightless you can get on earth. I still have all my equipment, can't get myself to part with it, it was part of my life for so many years.
68475
titsonritz
07-08-22, 12:31
That was great! I have never seen that! It makes me want to do it all over again, except for the getting up early and painful parts.
Jim Capers (black dude) is a legend in the community, as was Robert 'the gentle giant' Hughes (Hughes was a prolific swimmer and combat diver). These guys are there for sure.
Simply badass...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muohHT-3NAQ
Simply badass...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muohHT-3NAQ
He bit out the throat of the NVA swimmer, and had to confirmed underwater kills. Damn.
There was a pool at the school I went to and we were required to be in the pool for gym class for a few years in middle school or high school, I hated it as my eyesight was horrible so I could never see when in the pool. Never really learned how to swim, I can do it a little bit but I have no form and tire myself out quickly. My little boy however is in the pool four to five days a week at his preschool, he swam all last spring, summer and fall, and is doing it again this year and will do so next year as well at least until he starts kindergarten. I do know how to use BDUs to make personal flotation devices though, spent a day at Fort Indian Town Gap in a pond learning that skill.
I learned to swim in grammar school. By age 14 I was a self taught scuba diver. Finally quit scuba at 70 because of health issues. Went through Navy survival swimming to become an aircrewman. I have always been comfortable in the water. I miss scuba diving, as soon as my head was underwater I felt really relaxed and calm, almost euphoric. It is as close to being weightless you can get on earth. I still have all my equipment, can't get myself to part with it, it was part of my life for so many years.
68475
Well done Big Fella.
PB
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