View Full Version : James Yeager "of Tactical Response"
He aint got long. Heard good things about him, but he has a a++hole vibe about him.
ALS is a bad way to go, probably vaccinated.
https://youtu.be/nOW0uBQMRgM
He is a Class A retard who taught legions of shooters to do incredibly unsafe things but I don't wish that on him.
Straight Shooter
07-11-22, 17:18
People have more opinions on this guy than about anyone else I know of, outside of politics.
Ive watched his vids for a long time, agreeing with some, disagreeing with others. Yeah, he has been an asshole a lot of time. What..you/I/we havent?
The dude helped a lot of people. The guy put his money where his mouth is many times and did and went and said what HE believes in.
As for his training...Ive heard what Steyr said, and Ive heard others who said a lot was taken out of context. I dont know. But I believe him to be a stand up guy and nobody deserves to go out like that.
He inherited it from his father, who died from it too. I do not think he took the vax..Id bet on it.
The only thing I just cant understand is his vehement dislike for prayer & Christianity. I know, I know, many here feel the same. He STILL raging against it.
Oh well. I have prayed for him & his family..dude has several grandkids. I will continue to pray for him, it is NEVER too late to accept Christ.
You can be an arse and still hace so.e honor. Pretty sure when the civil war co.es around he would all in. I vaguely recall a video rant about something that got his ccw taken away.. wish I could find it.
Agree with Steyr, but don’t wish that on anyone, not even ole yeller.
titsonritz
07-11-22, 17:52
Wow, I haven't seen anything of him in several years he has taken a nose dive. Sad to see anyone going through the shit.
Averageman
07-11-22, 18:03
And to have turned your back on G-d at that point is like letting go of your life jacket and just going under.
Do you think it as not being religious or people not feeling sorry for him is how I took it, could be wrong though. Not sure if he has always been that way.
Terrible video though, he let off, seems pissed at the world
People have more opinions on this guy than about anyone else I know of, outside of politics.
Ive watched his vids for a long time, agreeing with some, disagreeing with others. Yeah, he has been an asshole a lot of time. What..you/I/we havent?
The dude helped a lot of people. The guy put his money where his mouth is many times and did and went and said what HE believes in.
As for his training...Ive heard what Steyr said, and Ive heard others who said a lot was taken out of context. I dont know. But I believe him to be a stand up guy and nobody deserves to go out like that.
He inherited it from his father, who died from it too. I do not think he took the vax..Id bet on it.
The only thing I just cant understand is his vehement dislike for prayer & Christianity. I know, I know, many here feel the same. He STILL raging against it.
Oh well. I have prayed for him & his family..dude has several grandkids. I will continue to pray for him, it is NEVER too late to accept Christ.
Here is some context, you tell me.
https://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/FXhummel1-Tactical-Response-Photographer-Downrange.jpg
LowSpeed_HighDrag
07-11-22, 19:00
And to have turned your back on G-d at that point is like letting go of your life jacket and just going under.
It would appear that god, like he has done with so many who suffer greatly, has turned his back on him.
Wow, I haven't seen anything of him in several years he has taken a nose dive. Sad to see anyone going through the shit.
I think once Sonny Puzikas shot another instructor in the kill house (practicing that 360 degree range bullshit), all of the Yeagertards kind of shut up for a little bit. Dangerous firearms handling is dangerous firearms handling and even the guys who presume to "teach" can have catastrophic incidents that result in injury and death because dangerous firearms handling is dangerous firearms handling.
joedirt199
07-11-22, 19:02
How else you gonna get those bitchin down the barrel instagram shots?
Straight Shooter
07-11-22, 19:07
Here is some context, you tell me.
https://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/FXhummel1-Tactical-Response-Photographer-Downrange.jpg
I dont doubt your dislike for him brother..and I know we've all heard the stories. Shoot, IVE done stuff that I disagree with, now. I aint throwing stones at a dying man.
As for the pic..heck I dont know what to say..unloaded rifle maybe? Who knows. Oh, looking back at my post- I DID NOT mean to imply you took stuff out of context..please forgive me if you thought otherwise.
titsonritz
07-11-22, 19:11
I think once Sonny Puzikas shot another instructor in the kill house (practicing that 360 degree range bullshit), all of the Yeagertards kind of shut up for a little bit. Dangerous firearms handling is dangerous firearms handling and even the guys who presume to "teach" can have catastrophic incidents that result in injury and death because dangerous firearms handling is dangerous firearms handling.
I remember that drama.
https://soldiersystems.net/2012/11/14/statement-from-the-range-owner-regarding-the-recent-accidental-shooting/
titsonritz
07-11-22, 19:13
How else you gonna get those bitchin down the barrel instagram shots?
A tripod maybe? :meeting:
As for the pic..heck I dont know what to say..unloaded rifle maybe? Who knows.
There's an impact splash on the berm and dust in the air.
I respect the guy. The one thing gun folks have in common with liberals is. They eat their own.
Most think they know it all, and are to full of themselves to learn. Like old ****ers at gun shows.
titsonritz
07-11-22, 19:21
I have never met JY but I have to admit his videos were one of the factors that got me to seek out professional firearms training. Was once a upon a time on his "Get off the X" forum but that was years ago, not even sure what happened to it.
I think once Sonny Puzikas shot another instructor in the kill house (practicing that 360 degree range bullshit), all of the Yeagertards kind of shut up for a little bit. Dangerous firearms handling is dangerous firearms handling and even the guys who presume to "teach" can have catastrophic incidents that result in injury and death because dangerous firearms handling is dangerous firearms handling.
Puzikas DID shoot another instructor, in Texas I believe, several years ago and has been out of training realm since. He went into a shoot house to practice some drills without first verifying no one else was in the building, hence the untoward result. The victim survived.
Yeager is suffering a horrible death, my condolences to him and those who care about him. Several years ago I took two of his courses in Titusville, Florida. He was rude, obnoxious, and his two assistant instructors did all of the training. None of which I recall was exemplary; it was bullet golf as some say. One usually takes away one or two solid points of teaching from any course, not a single one from his Tactical Response classes. He, allegedly, had a reputation for cowardice during an incident in Iraq where he was 'contractor', and ran from his fellow contractors while under fire into a ditch. Youtube is you friend here. In addition, his LE career I believe was greatly exaggerated, being part of two man rural department or something similar, not part of some multi district swat team etc, some more reputable instructors just called him a fraud. But that is subject to investigation and perhaps debate. Being a complete asswipe, fraud, coward, shyster, whatever, is irrelevant to whatever legion of friends/students enjoyed his classes, whether or not anything useful came of that, is of no matter to them.
He is suffering from an incurable barbaric terminal ailment which few should be subject to, RIP when your time comes.
I dont doubt your dislike for him brother..and I know we've all heard the stories. Shoot, IVE done stuff that I disagree with, now. I aint throwing stones at a dying man.
As for the pic..heck I dont know what to say..unloaded rifle maybe? Who knows. Oh, looking back at my post- I DID NOT mean to imply you took stuff out of context..please forgive me if you thought otherwise.
I don't dislike him as a person. But as a firearms instructor I think he is catastrophically dangerous and what he teaches is criminally negligent and already resulted in the death of one person at the hands of one of his instructors.
Not only were live rounds be put downrange with the photographer, it was being done by "trainees" so that they would learn to shoot at targets near people because that is how "it will be in the real world."
I'm also not gonna pretend somebody wasn't "dangerously wrong" because they are now dying. At one point Stalin was dying and it wouldn't have changed my view. I feel bad for the person who is dying, I don't think most people deserve that kind of death...but Yeager and his followers were still teaching things that were shockingly irresponsible and dangerous.
The Dumb Gun Collector
07-11-22, 19:36
I respect the guy. The one thing gun folks have in common with liberals is. They eat their own.
Most think they know it all, and are to full of themselves to learn. Like old ****ers at gun shows.
Humility and human decency are in short supply.
I respect the guy. The one thing gun folks have in common with liberals is. They eat their own.
Most think they know it all, and are to full of themselves to learn. Like old ****ers at gun shows.
I was able to learn from Sonny that the shit they were doing was f'ing unnecessarily dangerous. You don't have to light firemen on fire to teach them how to fight fires. Would it be more realistic? Of course. Would it be a terrible idea? Of course.
Yeagertards might as well get into straight up, live ammo gunfights with each other because that is what it will be like in the real world.
Puzikas DID shoot another instructor, in Texas I believe, several years ago and has been out of training realm since. He went into a shoot house to practice some drills without first verifying no one else was in the building, hence the untoward result. The victim survived.
Yeager is suffering a horrible death, my condolences to him and those who care about him. Several years ago I took two of his courses in Titusville, Florida. He was rude, obnoxious, and his two assistant instructors did all of the training. None of which I recall was exemplary; it was bullet golf as some say. One usually takes away one or two solid points of teaching from any course, not a single one from his Tactical Response classes. He, allegedly, had a reputation for cowardice during an incident in Iraq where he was 'contractor', and ran from his fellow contractors while under fire into a ditch. Youtube is you friend here. In addition, his LE career I believe was greatly exaggerated, being part of two man rural department or something similar, not part of some multi district swat team etc, some more reputable instructors just called him a fraud. But that is subject to investigation and perhaps debate. Being a complete asswipe, fraud, coward, shyster, whatever, is irrelevant to whatever legion of friends/students enjoyed his classes, whether or not anything useful came of that, is of no matter to them.
He is suffering from an incurable barbaric terminal ailment which few should be subject to, RIP when your time comes.
Pretty much all that. Again my main gripe is he is producing large numbers of dangerous shooters who put everyone else at risk. They could literally train with 500 different people and get much more useful (and safe) training that would improve their skill set without engaging in needlessly dangerous activities.
I hate to hear this. In another lifetime I took several classes from him in TN. It was close and fairly affordable for the time and allowed me start the training classes. I stayed in his basement once. Maybe by the time I started he had toned it down a bit. There were a few really high speed guys in a few of the classes. Ronnie Barrett and his son were at one. Nice guys. The classes were fun. They were bullet fluff. They were not of the same caliber as Jeff Gonzales or Pat Rogers. Over the years I have known contractors and cops that were affiliated with him. The good , the bad, and the ugly.
I think his best attribute was promoting and marketing himself and probably making a ton of money over the years. He took a beating over the contracting job in Iraq where he was the driver during an coordinated ambush that cost lives. His law enforcement career was exaggerated, In the end it goes to show that you can't take it with you.
Five_Point_Five_Six
07-11-22, 22:40
I hope he doesn't linger on and suffer. ALS is an absolutely horrible disease. I wish him the best.
Whether you like him or not or indifferent. ALS is a disease that I wouldn't wish or anyone. Why don't we just leave at that and move on?
He aint got long. Heard good things about him, but he has a a++hole vibe about him.
ALS is a bad way to go, probably vaccinated.
Heard nothing but bad things about him myself. Never met him, can't confirm.
Ran the vacuum, please leave the COVID/vax/etc stuff somewhere else.
Food for thought- A little extra decency and humanity is never a bad thing.
Whether you like him or not or indifferent. ALS is a disease that I wouldn't wish or anyone. Why don't we just leave at that and move on?
It is a horrible disease and I wish him the best. I will only add if you would not wish that on your worst enemies, you need better enemies. :cool:
Adrenaline_6
07-12-22, 09:25
Never met the guy personally. Never trained in one his classes either. Does he have a polarizing personality? Yes. That doesn't bother me really. True intent and heart is what matters to me. I just haven't had the opportunity to see what it is.
Sure, he seems a little angry at the situation. Who wouldn't be? You can even be angry at God at times. It happens. I myself am at a time when I fight the anger on why my wife was taken from me. The saving comfort is that I know that she is in a better, pain free place now and better for it. Hopefully he comes around because that is the only way the anger really will go away and he can be at peace. I pray when the time comes, he goes quick and not stuck in his own bodies physical prison for too long.
I have never trained with him but the majority of people I have trained with said he was a good trainer.
Some dude at my work brought his name up a few weeks ago. I'd forgotten about the guy and all the hysterics that surround him.
I always had a negative opinion of him, and him dying doesn't change that. Too many people feel the need to canonize the dead or dying, ignoring all their past sins, and I'm not one of them. That said, I hope his passing is as easy as it can be, and he makes things right with his creator before that happens.
titsonritz
07-12-22, 11:01
I always had a negative opinion of him, and him dying doesn't change that. Too many people feel the need to canonize the dead or dying, ignoring all their past sins, and I'm not one of them. That said, I hope his passing is as easy as it can be, and he makes things right with his creator before that happens.
Made me think of a quote from Will Penny:
"Let a man die, right away he's 'good, old Claude.' How was he before he bucked out?"
Some dude at my work brought his name up a few weeks ago. I'd forgotten about the guy and all the hysterics that surround him.
Not sure if you know the back story, but he was always polarizing due to his style, some liked him some did not. His general demeanor in vids, etc, put me in the latter category, I saw him a big mouth trying to make a name for himself. Where things really went south was he got a contract for Iraq, someone died (or seriously injured, I forget exact detail on that one) on his crew, and BDTD that types felt how he handled the contact, pure amateur hour.
I was not there, not my lane to comment as to accuracy, but that's how it was I recall. After that, his name was no good in the community of those in the know.
Not sure if you know the back story, but he was always polarizing due to his style, some liked him some did not. His general demeanor in vids, etc, put me in the latter category, I saw him a big mouth trying to make a name for himself. Where things really went south was he got a contract for Iraq, someone died (or seriously injured, I forget exact detail on that one) on his crew, and BDTD that types felt how he handled the contact, pure amateur hour.
I was not there, not my lane to comment as to accuracy, but that's how it was I recall. After that, his name was no good in the community of those in the know.
I remember something about him not getting a vehicle rolling which cost guys to get hurt/killed. Not my place to make a call on the story, but yeah... sounded like there was some unfavorable opinions on the situation.
I remember something about him not getting a vehicle rolling which cost guys to get hurt/killed. Not my place to make a call on the story, but yeah... sounded like there was some unfavorable opinions on the situation.
It was worse than that, hence the name ole yeller. I'll just leave it at that............
I remember something about him not getting a vehicle rolling which cost guys to get hurt/killed. Not my place to make a call on the story, but yeah... sounded like there was some unfavorable opinions on the situation.
The criticism came from him falling back about 30 yards and taking cover in the ditch across the road when they came under fire.
In order to be of use in a gun fight. You must first ensure that you are in a good position to stay in the fight. This was an ambush. For all the battle hardened folks who say he should have remained behind a car when taking fire vs taking his position in a ditch. With limited situational awareness of what the enemy had and was able to do, is conjure.
However my or any one else's Monday night quarterbacking is nothing but conjure. So?
6 to 1 and half a dozen to another.
Defaultmp3
07-12-22, 15:07
It was the ERSM/Route IRISH ambush. I've heard folks that have argued both for and against his actions those days, with fairly knowledgeable, BTDT people on both sides of the argument.
titsonritz
07-12-22, 15:17
It was the ERSM/Route IRISH ambush. I've heard folks that have argued both for and against his actions those days, with fairly knowledgeable, BTDT people on both sides of the argument.
Same, I wasn't there so I don't opine on it, he sure took a lot of shit over it though.
Same, I wasn't there so I don't opine on it, he sure took a lot of shit over it though.
His personality set him up for it however. Most people with any experience would have come to his defense with "you were not there so shut up" and such, but was very abrasive and the like. Don't think had any mil background, has some LE experience, nothing that would justify the behavior he put out on line.
Averageman
07-12-22, 18:07
Route Irish was one of those routine things that lulls you in to complacency.
Pretty standard ambush, it just hadn't happened in some time.
I used to go in and out of there to recover vehicles, never looked at it the same after watching that video. Pretty scary and who knows how any one will react?
Each individual event has its own actions and reactions.
It appeared to me some bailed to return fire and we're left behind as the vehicle crossed over and waited in a ditch.
I was a maint tech, I did 30-40 level stuff and taught it
So I really have no ability to critique trigger pullers, but I will say a lot fewer Americans seemed to be hired for the cutting edge after that.
I took two classes early on.
I thought they were pretty good especially the mental aspect. We didn't do anything dangerous to ourselves.
This was over 15 years ago.
As far as the ambush:
It was an ambush, they suck. They only had a vague idea where the fire was coming from. (More than one direction, PKM's suspected) their vehicles were hit, one guy mortally wounded. He heard rounds hitting his own vehicle, floored it, forgot it was a manual transmission he left in neutral, thoughtthe vehicle was damaged, and ran for cover. Through smoke to offer some concealment.
They were firing but only guessing where to shoot. Then ambushers, hundred of yards away, packed up and left.
Once he got of his rental car (that's all it was) that was attracting bullets from shooters unknown there wasn't much else anyone could have done to save the guy already shot up in the initial attack.
I think he learned alot over the years since, taking classes from most other instructors we've heard of, passing on knowledge he thought would save lives.
A gruff jerk? Maybe. Did some dumb shit? Yep. But a net benefit to good people in the private & professional self-defense community.
Nobody is perfect.
Crow Hunter
07-13-22, 13:20
I am from the area and so when my wife wanted to take a class after getting her CCW, that is where I went. This was right after Obama was elected the first time and it was very hard to find ammo. Yeager said don't worry about it, he would make sure we had enough. He got enough for both of us to do the class over twice over and sold it to us for what he paid for it.
There was some good information in the class and some things that I didn't agree with. They did do the the downrange picture taking when we were there. They were always the instructors and they only did it with shooters that they were sure were safe. My wife refused to allow them to go downrange of her when she was shooting.
Yeager can be off-putting to some but he is actually a very good teacher. There was a particular thing that my wife just could not grasp. I tried to help her understand, there was a member of the Memphis Metro SWAT team there that tried to help and two of his instructors, (Brian and his daughter), she just wasn't grasping it. Yeager came by asked what the problem was and within just a couple minutes she got it and she said that his demeanor in teaching was completely different than when he was talking. She said he was one of the better teachers that she had ever had.
I had a friend at work whose brother in law passed away from ALS. It is a horrible disease.
I wish him the best.
I am from the area and so when my wife wanted to take a class after getting her CCW, that is where I went. This was right after Obama was elected the first time and it was very hard to find ammo. Yeager said don't worry about it, he would make sure we had enough. He got enough for both of us to do the class over twice over and sold it to us for what he paid for it.
There was some good information in the class and some things that I didn't agree with. They did do the the downrange picture taking when we were there. They were always the instructors and they only did it with shooters that they were sure were safe. My wife refused to allow them to go downrange of her when she was shooting.
Yeager can be off-putting to some but he is actually a very good teacher. There was a particular thing that my wife just could not grasp. I tried to help her understand, there was a member of the Memphis Metro SWAT team there that tried to help and two of his instructors, (Brian and his daughter), she just wasn't grasping it. Yeager came by asked what the problem was and within just a couple minutes she got it and she said that his demeanor in teaching was completely different than when he was talking. She said he was one of the better teachers that she had ever had.
I had a friend at work whose brother in law passed away from ALS. It is a horrible disease.
I wish him the best.
I did Fighting Pistol in June of 18. Loved it and would like to go back and do it, or another class, again.
The lecture on Mindset, alone, was worth the money.
I think once Sonny Puzikas shot another instructor in the kill house (practicing that 360 degree range bullshit), all of the Yeagertards kind of shut up for a little bit. Dangerous firearms handling is dangerous firearms handling and even the guys who presume to "teach" can have catastrophic incidents that result in injury and death because dangerous firearms handling is dangerous firearms handling.
I wasn't at that exact class but have trained with Sonny dozens of times over the years. This is in addition to hundreds of other classes over the last 30 years including many of the "big name" trainers and schools.
I NEVER felt unsafe at one of Sonny's classes, NEVER. I have felt unsafe at numerous other "big name" classes however including several I would probably not go back to... And this is from a guy that looks at "days off" as days I'm sweating and training.
Wasn't at that particular class but know some folks that were- it was after class ended and a few folks hung around because they had a live fire house set up. Evidently the house was called clear several times, Sonny yelled before heading in but evidently one of the guy helping him was pasting a target (standing at it) and got hit.
I am from the area and so when my wife wanted to take a class after getting her CCW, that is where I went. This was right after Obama was elected the first time and it was very hard to find ammo. Yeager said don't worry about it, he would make sure we had enough. He got enough for both of us to do the class over twice over and sold it to us for what he paid for it.
There was some good information in the class and some things that I didn't agree with. They did do the the downrange picture taking when we were there. They were always the instructors and they only did it with shooters that they were sure were safe. My wife refused to allow them to go downrange of her when she was shooting.
Yeager can be off-putting to some but he is actually a very good teacher. There was a particular thing that my wife just could not grasp. I tried to help her understand, there was a member of the Memphis Metro SWAT team there that tried to help and two of his instructors, (Brian and his daughter), she just wasn't grasping it. Yeager came by asked what the problem was and within just a couple minutes she got it and she said that his demeanor in teaching was completely different than when he was talking. She said he was one of the better teachers that she had ever had.
I had a friend at work whose brother in law passed away from ALS. It is a horrible disease.
I wish him the best.
I will add that I have known a number of people who's internet persona totally different than they are in person. I don't "get" it as why really, but it's very common. No doubt one could do a psych breakdown of such behavior. Maybe he's such a person, I don't know. It's a weird dynamic but people are weird creatures like that. Nothing he's ever done or said = I don't think it sucks he has that disease. There's some I would frankly not give a damn they had that or any other disease, he's not one of them.
Five_Point_Five_Six
07-14-22, 12:34
There are a lot of people in the gun industry that I don't care for for any number of reasons, and the best way that I've found to deal with that is to just not pay them any attention or spend time telling the world over and over how much and why I don't like them. Like that Trex Arms kid. Yeah he's a skinny goober that can't carry a rescue randy at a USPSA event but I bet a ton of the dudes criticizing him are fat and would wind out doing the same.
Yeager hate is a bit of an odd thing that differs from other polarizing people in the industry. You have dudes who've spent the better part of 15 years hating him and publicly bringing up how he "hid in a ditch while his teammates died" every time his name is mentioned, and most have no vested interest whatsoever in the matter. They weren't there, they don't know anyone that was there, but they may have talked to someone who knows someone who was there. There's almost nothing worse than the "well I know a guy" guy. Don't be that guy. You don't know a guy, you just read some shit on the internet and made it a key part of your personality.
As already pointed out earlier, there are legit BTDT dudes, some with extensive knowledge of the situation, who've discussed this ad nauseum on different forums over the years. Some think he's a POS coward, others don't. One thing I've never seen is anyone who was involved in the ambush other than Yeager talk about the incident. If I were involved in an incident like that and I felt like someone shit the bed because they were scared and it cost lives, I'd sure make it my life's mission to see to it that they didn't have a career training people on tactics that they failed to employ themselves.
He'll likely be dead soon from a miserable death and the gun community will have to find someplace new to channel all that angst.
There are a lot of people in the gun industry that I don't care for for any number of reasons, and the best way that I've found to deal with that is to just not pay them any attention or spend time telling the world over and over how much and why I don't like them. Like that Trex Arms kid. Yeah he's a skinny goober that can't carry a rescue randy at a USPSA event but I bet a ton of the dudes criticizing him are fat and would wind out doing the same.
Yeager hate is a bit of an odd thing that differs from other polarizing people in the industry. You have dudes who've spent the better part of 15 years hating him and publicly bringing up how he "hid in a ditch while his teammates died" every time his name is mentioned, and most have no vested interest whatsoever in the matter. They weren't there, they don't know anyone that was there, but they may have talked to someone who knows someone who was there. There's almost nothing worse than the "well I know a guy" guy. Don't be that guy. You don't know a guy, you just read some shit on the internet and made it a key part of your personality.
As already pointed out earlier, there are legit BTDT dudes, some with extensive knowledge of the situation, who've discussed this ad nauseum on different forums over the years. Some think he's a POS coward, others don't. One thing I've never seen is anyone who was involved in the ambush other than Yeager talk about the incident. If I were involved in an incident like that and I felt like someone shit the bed because they were scared and it cost lives, I'd sure make it my life's mission to see to it that they didn't have a career training people on tactics that they failed to employ themselves.
He'll likely be dead soon from a miserable death and the gun community will have to find someplace new to channel all that angst.
That's an interesting and important comment. On the flip side, if you saw various bashing the guy who had done a solid job by you in such a situation, would you not speak up to defend him? I know I would. Their silence may speak volumes, I don't know.
Five_Point_Five_Six
07-14-22, 14:23
That's an interesting and important comment. On the flip side, if you saw various bashing the guy who had done a solid job by you in such a situation, would you not speak up to defend him? I know I would. Their silence may speak volumes, I don't know.
That's the thing. Even if he'd done a neutral job, neither good or bad, and was accused of cowardice I'd be inclined to speak out.
There are countless books written by DEVGRU and Delta guys, about stuff we were never supposed to know about, yet this ambush of security contractors from like 2005 that was caught on video from one of the vehicles in the convoy and we know next to nothing more than we did right after the video was released. I'm told there's a fictional movie based loosely on the ambush but I've never seen it.
I wasn't at that exact class but have trained with Sonny dozens of times over the years. This is in addition to hundreds of other classes over the last 30 years including many of the "big name" trainers and schools.
I NEVER felt unsafe at one of Sonny's classes, NEVER. I have felt unsafe at numerous other "big name" classes however including several I would probably not go back to... And this is from a guy that looks at "days off" as days I'm sweating and training.
Wasn't at that particular class but know some folks that were- it was after class ended and a few folks hung around because they had a live fire house set up. Evidently the house was called clear several times, Sonny yelled before heading in but evidently one of the guy helping him was pasting a target (standing at it) and got hit.
I don't make the rules, I only observe them.
Know your target and what is beyond. Be absolutely sure you have identified your target beyond any doubt. Equally important, be aware of the area beyond your target. This means observing your prospective area of fire before you shoot.
You only need to f it up ONE TIME for it to go bad, I'm not gonna excuse any trainer who violates the four MOST BASIC RULES OF GUN SAFETY.
The incident, even as YOU described it, was preventable.
I’ve seen videos with him previously. Always looked like a very husky dude. ALS is no joke, he’s like a little stick man now. I don’t know anything about ALS, but I could only get about 40 seconds into that vid. It was tough to watch someone in such terrible health.
Sucks for him. Out of respect I won’t comment with my preconceived notions of him from his social media outlets, dudes hurt up bad.
OutofBatt3ry
07-14-22, 20:15
NM.
My bad
First, I do not wish what is happening to him on anybody. But I can separate that from him as a teacher and what he teaches. Normally I would not post this under these circumstances. But it seems that some people don't understand how dangerous some of the things that Tactical Response taught was/is.
Some of the things I thought were stupid:
1. Racking the slide every time you do a tactical reload to chamber a round just in case. By definition a tactical reload is done when there is rounds in the gun. If you are worried about just in case you should probably incorporate a stoppage clearance every time you do a reload just in case you have a malfunction and don't know it.
2. They taught rack the slide when doing a slide lock reload rather than using the slide release because the slide release is a fine motor skill. If that is the case, why did they teach easing the trigger to reset after each shot--that is a finer motor skill than hitting the slide release.
I did not see any unsafe gun handling in that class or any photographers downrange. That seems to have come in later years, and it was a badge of pride to him. I have some pictures that I could upload but I get a message that it is exceeding my band quotient, or something like that. I don't have the time to find some third party photo hosting site and post the links here, I will just post some video links.
Here is a shoot house video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1om9rx46mE
Lots wrong here.
First, not everyone is wearing body armor or helmets capable of stopping rifle rounds. This is standard safety procedures for a shoot house.
Second, they have way too many people going into the shoot house at one time. People who don't know what they are doing judging from their movement.
If you have too many people in the room, combined with people moving improperly and not going where they should, it is dangerously easy for someone to step in front of someone else's line of fire. Now add the lack of body armor and you have a set up for a tragedy.
At the .50 mark you see them doing a room entry and shooting with an unarmored instructor in the middle of the room.
At the 1:05 mark, the guy with the Kriss V on the right is muzzling people heading in through the doorway.
At the 1:19 mark you have a photographer kneeling and photographing people from downrange as they are making an entry into a room.
From some of the video it is clear that there had to be a photographer downrange to get the videos. This is even more unsafe in the dynamic environment of a shoot house where people are moving in to unfamiliar rooms and firing.
Again, if there were not such serious safety problems, I would not be bringing this up at a time when someone is dying form this horrible disease.
Here is a Tactical response class where they are practicing shooting on the move and they have someone in a wheelchair. An instructor is pushing him in the wheelchair to allow him to fire on the move while the rest of the class is already downrange and the man in the wheelchair fires on the move with one hand.
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Untitled-1-660x410.jpg
Here is a link that has more detail and a video:
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/12/27/handicapable-man-almost-shoots-classmate/
More pictures of the same:
https://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/James-Yeager-Tactical-Response-Photographer-Down-Range-Shooting.jpg
https://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/FXhummel1-Tactical-Response-Photographer-Downrange.jpg
Some of the things I thought were stupid:
1. Racking the slide every time you do a tactical reload to chamber a round just in case. By definition a tactical reload is done when there is rounds in the gun. If you are worried about just in case you should probably incorporate a stoppage clearance every time you do a reload just in case you have a malfunction and don't know it.
2. They taught rack the slide when doing a slide lock reload rather than using the slide release because the slide release is a fine motor skill. If that is the case, why did they teach easing the trigger to reset after each shot--that is a finer motor skill than hitting the slide release.
Not unique to TR, I've seen #1 a few places. Rationale is that any slide manipulation is a complete one to ensure it had full force and is in battery. #2 was a norm in more places than not for the "fInE mOtOr sKiLlz!!" nonsense, followed by some variation of never finding that tiny lever when you're stressed/bloody/etc.
I always had a negative opinion of him, and him dying doesn't change that. Too many people feel the need to canonize the dead or dying, ignoring all their past sins, and I'm not one of them. That said, I hope his passing is as easy as it can be, and he makes things right with his creator before that happens.
I think it’s the sober reminder that a disagreement doesn’t really mean much in reality and gives perspective.
If you’re a Christian which it seems you are and I have faults of my own. But the Bible’s pretty clear on resolving conflict with each other.
Then Peter came up and said to him, “Lord, how often will my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? As many as seven times?”. Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you seven times, but seventy-seven times. - Matthew 18:21-22
We’ve all done stupid things. I’ve done my fair share.
I’m sorry to hear this for James Yeager and Ill be praying for the dude.
God Bless,
Brandon
ETA: I’m not condoning his training methods either. Just talking about forgiveness FWIW.
If you’re a Christian which it seems you are and I have faults of my own. But the Bible’s pretty clear on resolving conflict with each other.
Then Peter came up and said to him, “Lord, how often will my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? As many as seven times?”. Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you seven times, but seventy-seven times. - Matthew 18:21-22
There is a difference between forgiveness and whitewashing someone's past. Christ was commanding his disciples to ignore slights and work together, not give people a carte blanche in all future interactions. I am all for forgiving those who seek to change their ways, but just because someone is dying it doesn't mean they automatically gain repentance for their lives.
Bottom line, I bear no real animosity towards him, but I don't like him nor think highly of his skills/career because of his personality and high-profile issues. I don't wish anything bad on him, but I don't think we should act like he's a saint just because he happens to be dying.
Five_Point_Five_Six
07-15-22, 09:49
I have no problem with folks that take issue with his online persona and all that encompasses and the tactics and way TR runs training courses. There's plenty of that out there for people to sift through. I hold no opinion of him based on his time with Edinburg Risk and the Route IRISH ambush, which is where 90% or more of the hurt feelings about Yeager originates from and people are still talking about it. If he didn't have ALS and you went someplace like Reddit, FB gun groups, or Arf and mentioned him, hid in a ditch would be the bulk of what is spewed by people, some of whom were probably in diapers when it happened. They're just regurgitating what they've read online. It's old and tiresome, kinda like boomers that still think "well i lost all muh guns in a boatin' accident" is funny.
M4C, LF, P&S are really the only places where I've ever seen people take Yeager and TR to task over his/their training doctrine. Much of the controversial stuff like running the charging handle on a bolt lock reload instead of hitting the bolt release always seemed like it was born of a place from wanting to be different for the sake of being different, not because it's better or makes sense.
I’ve seen videos with him previously. Always looked like a very husky dude. ALS is no joke, he’s like a little stick man now. I don’t know anything about ALS, but I could only get about 40 seconds into that vid. It was tough to watch someone in such terrible health.
Sucks for him. Out of respect I won’t comment with my preconceived notions of him from his social media outlets, dudes hurt up bad.
Hard to pinpoint the exact start date, but the red nose and slurred speech started in spring 2021. Going backwards from one of his videos where it is obvious, I could pick up hints of the slurring a month or 2 prior.
Think the muscle atrophy was showing about 6 months ago while he was indicating they were still trying to diagnose it.
The being fully aware part of it would have to be horrible.
I have no problem with folks that take issue with his online persona and all that encompasses and the tactics and way TR runs training courses. There's plenty of that out there for people to sift through. I hold no opinion of him based on his time with Edinburg Risk and the Route IRISH ambush, which is where 90% or more of the hurt feelings about Yeager originates from and people are still talking about it. If he didn't have ALS and you went someplace like Reddit, FB gun groups, or Arf and mentioned him, hid in a ditch would be the bulk of what is spewed by people, some of whom were probably in diapers when it happened. They're just regurgitating what they've read online. It's old and tiresome, kinda like boomers that still think "well i lost all muh guns in a boatin' accident" is funny.
M4C, LF, P&S are really the only places where I've ever seen people take Yeager and TR to task over his/their training doctrine. Much of the controversial stuff like running the charging handle on a bolt lock reload instead of hitting the bolt release always seemed like it was born of a place from wanting to be different for the sake of being different, not because it's better or makes sense.
Honestly, I'm not even gonna give him shit about his time in Iraq. I give him credit for going, not everyone is a good candidate for combat even if they think they would be. Combat is horrible and it has humbled great men.
I also don't give a crap about persona, it's the name of the game. If you make your living that way, even if you aren't a jackass, people expect you to alpha dog. I've seen guys who have gone full on WWF with their persona because they think that is what attracts the money.
My only criticism of Yeager, and other instructors who espouse a 360 degree "real world" live fire range (which seems to come from a bunch of spetnaz wannabees) in gross violation of the most basic rules of safe gun handling is that their "mowr cowbell" nonsense puts everyone at risk and with no "real world" benefit.
If you want to practice the two way range, by all means gear up and grab some sims and go at it. Putting people in lanes of fire when shooting paper is just f'ing retarded. You want to run through the shoot house willy nilly...awesome, gear up and grab some sims and go at it.
We all know these guys we're trying to appeal to the gamer / larper crowd who want to learn "team clearing" tactics and things 96% of most shooters will never need to know when they should be practicing basic fundamentals that they are fully ignorant of.
I've been around firearm instructors for 45 years, I have never heard of anyone intentionally firing their weapon at any target that wasn't a 100% fully identified. That a person was actually shot under what should have been controlled conditions should demonstrate to everyone that this kind of training environment is a horribly bad idea that even the instructors cannot control.
That is my only criticism of Yeager, the rest really doesn't matter and few people deserve things like ALS. Serial killers, pedophiles and other monsters deserve that shit.
Straight Shooter
07-15-22, 21:10
Hard to pinpoint the exact start date, but the red nose and slurred speech started in spring 2021. Going backwards from one of his videos where it is obvious, I could pick up hints of the slurring a month or 2 prior.
Think the muscle atrophy was showing about 6 months ago while he was indicating they were still trying to diagnose it.
The being fully aware part of it would have to be horrible.
He knew he had it, cause it also killed his father.
Not unique to TR, I've seen #1 a few places. Rationale is that any slide manipulation is a complete one to ensure it had full force and is in battery. #2 was a norm in more places than not for the "fInE mOtOr sKiLlz!!" nonsense, followed by some variation of never finding that tiny lever when you're stressed/bloody/etc.
I understand that. I can see it being easier to teach a new person to rack the slide than use the slide release.
My observation is that on one hand they teach racking the slide over the slide release since they consider using a slide release to be a fine motor skill. Well if that is the case, they should not be teaching letting the trigger out to reset because that is an even finer motor skill. It was more of a commentary on their inconsistency and lack of analytic skills.
Again, I feel bad for Yeager. Since the what he and Tactical Response teaches has come up, with some reservation I am contributing what I know and what I have personally experienced.
Here is another gem: One of the Tactical Response instructors stomps his handgun to prove that it is supposed to be a workhorse and the gun discharges and hits a tire of a student's car.
From: https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1168813
"During the recent (Feb 17-18) Tactical Response "Fighting Pistol" course near Sacramento, an instructor instructed the students to throw their pistols on the ground, then the instructor proceeded to stomp on the pistols to make some point along the lines of "these things aren't meant to be pretty, they're meant to be tools, so treat them as such" (quotes mine). He then threw his own pistol onto the ground and stomped on it--resulting in a round being fired parallel to the line of students, into a student's truck, with a possible ricochet towards who-knows-what."
Honestly, I'm not even gonna give him shit about his time in Iraq. I give him credit for going, not everyone is a good candidate for combat even if they think they would be. Combat is horrible and it has humbled great men.
I resemble that! I have mastered both Call Of Duty and Doom and my DPMS rifle has been through extensive testing, as least 300rnds. I'm ready.
Many years ago I took his Fighting Pistol I & II classes, this was when I first sought out 'professional' training. He was abrupt, callous, and most 'unlikeable'. A group of six of us avoided any social contact/interaction with him during the break/meal periods. He was just an ass wipe. And in retrospect, those classes were at best mediocre. The expression "you don't know what you don't know" applied to me at that point. Afterwards took classes with Pannone,DeFoor,McNamara,Vickers, SOB Tactical and similar instructors. These were actual learning experiences, especially SOB Tactical. Mr. Yeager will be suffering a most dreadful demise, and my condolences to him and his family.
The Dumb Gun Collector
07-16-22, 19:54
I am going to lock this down. The man is dying.
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