View Full Version : Lube war documentary
triggerjerk
07-15-22, 06:57
Fwiw. I just found it an interesting attempt. Probably best not to discuss?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fibRewlndLg
Yeah. The "Grip Screw" EPIC was enough for me.
This was an interesting and well done test and comparison of common firearm lubricants. Tests for lubricity, corrosion, and cold weather performance. Some of the well known brands failed miserably.
Thanks for posting triggerjerk!
Yeah. The "Grip Screw" EPIC was enough for me.
Lube threads predate the grip screw tardfest here though. I think that was the big topic when I first joined this site many years back.
triggerjerk
07-15-22, 11:13
I figgered discretion wudda been the better part of valor, but I have a new spring gun. 99.999% of my yutubing is listening to tunes, and after the vids demonstrating how far out airgunners are (be sure to wash and relube your pellets before shooting), this was actually kind of relaxing..... Mods, feel free to take it down!
Wish he hadn't cooked them before doing the corrosion test, and maybe did the freezing test closer to zero instead of minus freaking forty degrees. Probably the hottest moving part of any gun is an AR bolt, and they don't even get hot enough to burn your hand, so we're talking like 200 degrees tops. 400 degrees for an hour is beyond unrealistic.
Mods, feel free to take it down!
No way. It's like The Godfather. Every few years we have to go to war.
I think it's something you care about when you first get into firearms. After a while I could care less and will use whatever is laying around. They key is just to keep them lubed. Still a fan of the Filthy 14 experiment.
Yes Pat!
Wish he hadn't cooked them before doing the corrosion test, and maybe did the freezing test closer to zero instead of minus freaking forty degrees. Probably the hottest moving part of any gun is an AR bolt, and they don't even get hot enough to burn your hand, so we're talking like 200 degrees tops. 400 degrees for an hour is beyond unrealistic.
I believe the lower row of plates in the corrosion test were uncooked. I would have liked to have seen synthetic motor oil in the lubricity test. I was impressed with the clenzoil in that test.
No way. It's like The Godfather. Every few years we have to go to war.
Yep, it's about time for a lube thread.
triggerjerk
07-15-22, 11:34
Oh, how I pity the human condition... Even as I contribute to the strife.... Apologies.
Should have just asked how you hold/rest a spring gun for consistent performance!
I think it's something you care about when you first get into firearms. After a while I could care less and will use whatever is laying around. They key is just to keep them lubed. Still a fan of the Filthy 14 experiment.
Yes Pat!
And the first shot is fired!!! :dance3:
The best lubes in the world are worthless if they don't stay put. I used to use Mobile 1 which is high quality. But it would be gone quickly... run off, spray off under fire, etc. I've since gone to Froglube, and have never had to look elsewhere. It just stays on the bolt WAY better than anything I've tried.
I believe the lower row of plates in the corrosion test were uncooked. I would have liked to have seen synthetic motor oil in the lubricity test. I was impressed with the clenzoil in that test.
I think those are the ones that went for a ride though. I didn't see any mention of cleaning the dust and relubing after that.
I think those are the ones that went for a ride though. I didn't see any mention of cleaning the dust and relubing after that.
Oh yeah I'm not totally sure about that, I would have to watch the video through again.
Outlander Systems
07-15-22, 13:20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayMhtRMCDWw
Eurodriver
07-15-22, 13:29
Wish he hadn't cooked them before doing the corrosion test, and maybe did the freezing test closer to zero instead of minus freaking forty degrees. Probably the hottest moving part of any gun is an AR bolt, and they don't even get hot enough to burn your hand, so we're talking like 200 degrees tops. 400 degrees for an hour is beyond unrealistic.
Not necessarily.
Barrels rust. FSBs rust. Rust preventative on those is important.
I was so expecting a link to Porn Hub...
I was so expecting a link to Porn Hub...
Probably would have resulted in a less offensive thread:lol:
Coal Dragger
07-15-22, 13:53
I love the fact that good old Breakfree CLP won.
Decades of worrying and angst about what to use instead of the bargain basement lowest bidder military issue CLP, and it’s been the best lube all this time.
Standing by for the fans of the worst lube ever.... SLIP 2000. :mad:
Standing by for the fans of the worst lube ever.... SLIP 2000. :mad:
I'll bite, what's wrong with Slip 2000?
I love the fact that good old Breakfree CLP won.
Decades of worrying and angst about what to use instead of the bargain basement lowest bidder military issue CLP, and it’s been the best lube all this time.
Lowest bidders that meet extensive requirements, including lubricity, wear protection, corrosion protection, and cold weather use, so I’m not too surprised.
triggerjerk
07-15-22, 14:51
I was so expecting a link to Porn Hub...
Wait.... Porn stars don't care which lube works best?
I'll bite, what's wrong with Slip 2000?
It's worthless. About as bad as Rem Oil. Thin piss poor lube.
I tried a bottle of slip 2000 once. It was thinner, less slick and dried out quicker than mobil 1, so I went back to mobil 1,still haven't found anything that beats it yet.
Fare enough, I have tons of Rem Oil and use it all the time after Gander went out of business and was selling a 4 cans for like $5, I lots of Slip2000 and CLP as well, I honestly don't really care as I have only had one issue with lack of lube out of my 5 rifles, I just realized that I need more when I am in AZ than I normally do when I am in Wisco/Minn.
I've still got some Rand CLP. Breakfree's granddaddy. Why change now?
I just realized that I need more when I am in AZ than I normally do when I am in Wisco/Minn.
The beauty of AZ is that you can run Froglube. I guess Froglube isn't optimal in colder temps, but it's far and away the best in the warm climate.
It's worthless. About as bad as Rem Oil. Thin piss poor lube.
I concur that Rem Oil is crazy thin and dries off fast. I have a buddy that keeps some in his truck to restore function in a gun that is carbon’d up and dry. It always works for that. I don’t think I’d choose it as my first choice. Almost anything is probably better, but it does make the gun run again.
Fare enough, I have tons of Rem Oil and use it all the time after Gander went out of business and was selling a 4 cans for like $5, I lots of Slip2000 and CLP as well, I honestly don't really care as I have only had one issue with lack of lube out of my 5 rifles, I just realized that I need more when I am in AZ than I normally do when I am in Wisco/Minn.
I got a pile of Hoppe’s ketchup packets of oil when Gander went under, for silly cheap. I still have some in some of my grips, for when a gun gets too filthy and dry at the range. They are similar to Rem Oil. Very runny, but it works. As I use them, I replace them with the ALG ketchup packets. Those work, too.
When I remember, I bring along regular CLP, with a preference for the MIL-PRF compliant or issued stuff. Any of it. It just works, and I use it to clean, as well.
I feel like lube threads used to happen in late winter when everyone was getting stir-crazy.
I was kind of blown away by how well break free worked to prevent wear.
The test was a refreshing well done take.
Coal Dragger
07-15-22, 19:16
Lowest bidders that meet extensive requirements, including lubricity, wear protection, corrosion protection, and cold weather use, so I’m not too surprised.
Yep.
I’ve used it for years because it’s the “easy button” solution and I used it when it was issued to me.
Nice to see it’s actually pretty damn good as an all around lube.
Isn't frog lube just coconut oil?
When I remember, I bring along regular CLP, with a preference for the MIL-PRF compliant or issued stuff. Any of it. It just works, and I use it to clean, as well.
I feel like lube threads used to happen in late winter when everyone was getting stir-crazy.
I use it to clean as well. I'm not saying there isn't better stuff out there but every month I use a little CLP/ Slip 2000 on my bolts and wipe away excess and can shoot 300-400 rounds before adding more and running a bore snake through the barrel. I only exceeded that a few times in multi-day classes in which I might add more the evening after and again run a bore snake, basic maintenance goes a long way.
It's worthless. About as bad as Rem Oil. Thin piss poor lube.
No way. I went from clp, to oil to slip. It migrates better, stays better, and keeps more corbon in solution longer.
Mpro-7 and slip2k is the winning combo.
Now Im second guessing my reload setup�� lmfao.
Rem oil is only good for wetting a silencer. Its garbage.
Coal Dragger
07-16-22, 03:44
Rem Oil, yeah it’s as if Remington set out to market a gun oil that is as poorly made as their average firearms.
I use it to clean as well. I'm not saying there isn't better stuff out there but every month I use a little CLP/ Slip 2000 on my bolts and wipe away excess and can shoot 300-400 rounds before adding more and running a bore snake through the barrel. I only exceeded that a few times in multi-day classes in which I might add more the evening after and again run a bore snake, basic maintenance goes a long way.
I’m sure that stuff is fine. I was mainly commenting on how the going out of business sale got me a deep supply Hoppes, even though I don’t use it much.
No way. I went from clp, to oil to slip. It migrates better, stays better, and keeps more corbon in solution longer.
Mpro-7 and slip2k is the winning combo.
Now Im second guessing my reload setup�� lmfao.
Rem oil is only good for wetting a silencer. Its garbage.
I was given a bunch of EWL, EWL30, EWG, and carbon killer and I finally threw it out and went back to Breakfree CLP and LP.
The EWL doesn’t clean or lube, the EWL30 separates and leaves a mess in the gun if you manage to get it out of the bottle, and I don’t mess with grease at all.
The stuff has no lubricity and I think it was why I was having trouble with my Glocks eating up trigger bars and connectors. It worked well enough on the ARs, but when I went back to CLP I got dirty rags wiping down EWL cleaned guns.
Isn't frog lube just coconut oil?
Doesn’t matter what it is. If you follow the instructions there won’t be any of it on the gun…
Anyone use Clenzoil? results?
Isn't frog lube just coconut oil?
Maybe, and it’s minty…
john armond
07-16-22, 19:26
Maybe, and it’s minty…
And works as a burn cream…not kidding
Rem Oil, yeah it’s as if Remington set out to market a gun oil that is as poorly made as their average firearms.
Sometimes for fun, I'll clean something with WD-40 and lube it with 3:1 like my grandfather did with all his guns just to makes heads pop.
Coal Dragger
07-17-22, 01:53
That’s actually probably not a bad way to do it though.
WD-40 is a pretty decent solvent, and 3:1 oil has been a general do it all lube forever.
Sometimes for fun, I'll clean something with WD-40 and lube it with 3:1 like my grandfather did with all his guns just to makes heads pop.
Actually, one of the most respected smiths in my area before I left the NE, did exactly that. He was of the "if it's not broke don't fix it" types and said he'd never had any issues and use them liberally. He did make some very nice 1911s.
And works as a burn cream…not kidding
Please don’t put oil of any type on burns.
john armond
07-17-22, 11:22
Please don’t put oil of any type on burns.
Not going to thread drift, PM me if you want some info.
Just to clarify for the Rem Oil haters. Rem Oil is a dry lubricant. It is excellent on bolt action rifles and 22 semi autos like 10/22s. You spray it on and let it dry. Totally not designed for high heat / high carbon environments.
When I travelled around by air a lot, we never brought lube because TSA would make us throw it out. We’d always swing by a Walmart when we hit the ground and pick up sunscreen, toothpaste, water, and Rem-Oil.
I’ve seen thousands upon thousands of rounds sent downrange with Rem-Oil. Never a problem, just squirt more in every couple hundred rounds.
That’s actually probably not a bad way to do it though.
WD-40 is a pretty decent solvent, and 3:1 oil has been a general do it all lube forever.
I know, all those WWI and WWII guns were cleaned that way by gun owners over the years. I don't recall seeing Break Free until about the mid 80s. I used to love how WD-40 seems to be able to target those really tight spots. The only other thing I ever used was Hoppes for the barrel.
I was given a bunch of EWL, EWL30, EWG, and carbon killer and I finally threw it out and went back to Breakfree CLP and LP.
The EWL doesn’t clean or lube, the EWL30 separates and leaves a mess in the gun if you manage to get it out of the bottle, and I don’t mess with grease at all.
The stuff has no lubricity and I think it was why I was having trouble with my Glocks eating up trigger bars and connectors. It worked well enough on the ARs, but when I went back to CLP I got dirty rags wiping down EWL cleaned guns.
I only have experience with normal slip but I find it lubes better than clp. I like clp, but slip keeps things wet longer, especially when using a silencer on an AR.
The glock trigger bar thing was a know issue with wasnt it?
I have 10k rounds each (not including dryfire which would triple that number at least) through 2 glocks using slip2k and my trigger bars are fine.
triggerjerk
07-18-22, 12:27
I started this mess so I guess I should waller around in it a little more with y'all....
Yesterday, 1022 with higher dollar barrel, bolt, and trigger on factory receiver. Tac22, cci std, Blazer, Aguila se, and golden bullet test. Malf more likely than not through 10 shot strings.
Got frustrated and cleaned barrel, including a little extra scrubbing of chamber/leade. Wiped receiver and bolt clean with break free. Completely disassembled trigger and did same (including finding disco spring in it's hiding place under the bench).
Malfs continued unabated.
This morning, cleaned everything (incl trigger disassembly) with alcohol then lubed with slip ewl before going back to range (slip grease on hammer pin).
140 rounds of various ammo, only 2 malfs at the end. Then remembered same thing had happened before (including another lube I can't remember)....
Slip better than break free? Possible in this instance. I'll just continue to use both or whatever is available that I can afford when I have to have something. ...
I started this mess so I guess I should waller around in it a little more with y'all....
Yesterday, 1022 with higher dollar barrel, bolt, and trigger on factory receiver. Tac22, cci std, Blazer, Aguila se, and golden bullet test. Malf more likely than not through 10 shot strings.
Got frustrated and cleaned barrel, including a little extra scrubbing of chamber/leade. Wiped receiver and bolt clean with break free. Completely disassembled trigger and did same (including finding disco spring in it's hiding place under the bench).
Malfs continued unabated.
This morning, cleaned everything (incl trigger disassembly) with alcohol then lubed with slip ewl before going back to range (slip grease on hammer pin).
140 rounds of various ammo, only 2 malfs at the end. Then remembered same thing had happened before (including another lube I can't remember)....
Slip better than break free? Possible in this instance. I'll just continue to use both or whatever is available that I can afford when I have to have something. ...
I have an M&P22 Pistol (made by Walther) and a GSG 1911-22. Both of them would begin to malfunction (usually FTFeed) well befor any of my other 22 pistols.
I had some Cherry Balmz Rimfire Remedy that I had bought as the third option in their 'buy two get one free deal' when I was trying out different lubes.
https://www.cherrybalmz.com/product-page/rimfire-remedy
So, I cleaned both of them and used the Rimfire Remedy on both. Other being a pain in the rear to apply, worked quite well. Neither are as reliable as my AA conversion or my G44's but did improve.
Is fire clean still a thing?
Is fire clean still a thing?It will be as long as Crisco is still a thing. ;)
triggerjerk
07-18-22, 21:14
Will keep the balmz in mind. I have some old remoil I'm tempted to try in this gun out of meaness (became unhappy with it in some other application years ago), but don't feel like dealing with trigger again to remoil it. That said, receiver/bolt treatment may show something as the bolt is allegedly max size. You've prolly heard the old tight is accurate, loose is more functional. This bolt didn't run well in 2 other guns. Don't think accuracy gains really worth it for me.
And between ammo testing 1022s and ars, I've become just slightly suspicious that fouling from some different powders may not play well together when stacked on each other back and forth. And that relates to gunk/function, not barrel seasoning for accuracy.....
Coal Dragger
07-18-22, 21:30
I know, all those WWI and WWII guns were cleaned that way by gun owners over the years. I don't recall seeing Break Free until about the mid 80s. I used to love how WD-40 seems to be able to target those really tight spots. The only other thing I ever used was Hoppes for the barrel.
I will say I don’t like using WD-40 on or around magazines. That stuff can penetrate/seep into primers over time around the primer pocket. Might not be an issue with mil spec ammo with sealed primers, but commercial stuff I am weary of exposing to WD-40.
I also don’t like letting it sit on or in a firearm, but as a solvent and *gasp* water displacer it works as advertised!
I started this mess so I guess I should waller around in it a little more with y'all....
Yesterday, 1022 with higher dollar barrel, bolt, and trigger on factory receiver. Tac22, cci std, Blazer, Aguila se, and golden bullet test. Malf more likely than not through 10 shot strings.
Got frustrated and cleaned barrel, including a little extra scrubbing of chamber/leade. Wiped receiver and bolt clean with break free. Completely disassembled trigger and did same (including finding disco spring in it's hiding place under the bench).
Malfs continued unabated.
This morning, cleaned everything (incl trigger disassembly) with alcohol then lubed with slip ewl before going back to range (slip grease on hammer pin).
140 rounds of various ammo, only 2 malfs at the end. Then remembered same thing had happened before (including another lube I can't remember)....
Slip better than break free? Possible in this instance. I'll just continue to use both or whatever is available that I can afford when I have to have something. ...
I have a 10/22 with the receiver being the only original factory part. It runs all day long with Breakfree in it. More than likely you have magazine problems.
triggerjerk
07-20-22, 09:54
Got curious this morning. Friend had given me rifle decade ago on his death bed. He was ex special forces. Could walk down the middle of the road and sneak up on you. Knew and could use good equipment, but ex farm boy or not, he wasn't qualified to mechanic on stuff (like I am...). I checked trigger with guage. It was set below min recommended pull weight. I turned a screw and will be leaving shortly to test....
triggerjerk
07-20-22, 13:33
Short version: Anything pointing to lube performance differences was probably due to inconsistent demonstration of trigger engagement problems and my willingness to jump to conclusions.
Long version: I should probably post over on Mark's wtf thread how no discernible poi shift after taking rifle apart for 4 different spring weights and a bolt swap. Then a 1 in poi shift due north (at 50y) when I put different trigger in.....
I posted that vid some years back I recall. The Clenzoil did very well in all tests but low temps, but I'm in FL, so no chits given about that one failure. That's what I have been using.
I don't rely on just one lube....I have been mostly using Slip2000 for years with no problems with my guns...but I also use MPro7, Geiselle GoJuice and their thin Grease, CLP, SuperLube, Lucas Gun oil...and just got bought Kroil and FP10 as I have a few Dan Wessons and they recommend it..I
I keep most of my guns wet and if oil migrates, just relube as applicable.. Legacy P series Sigs like the Geiselle Grease on the slide rails..
Trying the Slip EWL grease on an AR BCG to see how it works out..
Yeah. The "Grip Screw" EPIC was enough for me.
Someone could start a buffer spring thread....
Someone could start a buffer spring thread....
I'd like to see a thread on disconnector spring installation techniques as I'm finding it rather frustrating to get those little buggers seated without either damaging them or having them fling themselves into another dimension.
triggerjerk
07-22-22, 21:18
I was thinking next thread should be front or rear pin 1st when splitting upper from lower ....
Nobody remembers Militec-1 circa 2004? Before all the super non toxic bio lubes came out and we were still using GI mags with green followers and 3 point slings. It was supposed to be the superior lube to breakfree. We all converted to using it in Iraq. Turns out it's highly carcinogenic. [emoji38]
I'll use the crisco lubes before that tumor in a bottle. Still have a bunch on the shelf.
Just an observation: my experience has been that ruger 22s do not do well run with ar-15 level wet action parts. Mkii stainless and 10/22s.
22s are much dirtier, and I've found that when run wet they get sticky/gummy faster. And ultimately slow the action to the point of jams. For more than ARs.
Yet will run long periods with light coating of stuff like a rig rag swipe on the moving assembly. Then a relatively drv inner upper rcv. Inner areas wiped down with an oiled (but not saturated) patch
Counterintuitive, but thats what I learned once previously reliable rugers started acting up once oiled like ARs.
Similar for hk 91 bcg wiped wet with ballistol. Became finicky in cold, but never in prior decades.
I still use ballistol on a rigrag type wipe for blued finishes, bolt guns, lever actions, and revolvers. But nothing exposed to combustion gases much.
Meanwhile in ARs breakfree clp run wet is the easy button, though I'm suspicious it's not the best low wear option for cam keys, etc. So now I'll hit those with something a bit more lube focused.
But back to ruger 22s, use factory mags and lighter lube coating and see what happens.
Nobody remembers Militec-1 circa 2004? Before all the super non toxic bio lubes came out and we were still using GI mags with green followers and 3 point slings. It was supposed to be the superior lube to breakfree. We all converted to using it in Iraq. Turns out it's highly carcinogenic. [emoji38]
I have a bottle of that somewhere. Was there a recall? Time to trash it I suppose.
Just an observation: my experience has been that ruger 22s do not do well run with ar-15 level wet action parts. Mkii stainless and 10/22s.
22s are much dirtier, and I've found that when run wet they get sticky/gummy faster. And ultimately slow the action to the point of jams. For more than ARs.
Yet will run long periods with light coating of stuff like a rig rag swipe on the moving assembly. Then a relatively drv inner upper rcv. Inner areas wiped down with an oiled (but not saturated) patch
Counterintuitive, but thats what I learned once previously reliable rugers started acting up once oiled like ARs.
Similar for hk 91 bcg wiped wet with ballistol. Became finicky in cold, but never in prior decades.
I still use ballistol on a rigrag type wipe for blued finishes, bolt guns, lever actions, and revolvers. But nothing exposed to combustion gases much.
Meanwhile in ARs breakfree clp run wet is the easy button, though I'm suspicious it's not the best low wear option for cam keys, etc. So now I'll hit those with something a bit more lube focused.
But back to ruger 22s, use factory mags and lighter lube coating and see what happens.
22lr is just dirty ammo. Nothing I have shot in 22 runs for very long before malfing or gumming up. Even 22 revolvers it starts getting hard to load the rounds in the cylinder. The only exception is my old Mossberg 22 bolt action that thing will run forever. But my 10/22 will start malfing, my 22/45 mark 4 will malf. It doesn't take long either.
22lr is just dirty ammo. Nothing I have shot in 22 runs for very long before malfing or gumming up. Even 22 revolvers it starts getting hard to load the rounds in the cylinder. The only exception is my old Mossberg 22 bolt action that thing will run forever. But my 10/22 will start malfing, my 22/45 mark 4 will malf. It doesn't take long either.
Try the Norma Tac-22 stuff. Weirdly clean, maybe because it's got some sort of very light lube on it. Put 150 rounds through the TacSol x-ring and the patches soaked in BoreTech rimfire blend came out clean.
Try the Norma Tac-22 stuff. Weirdly clean, maybe because it's got some sort of very light lube on it. Put 150 rounds through the TacSol x-ring and the patches soaked in BoreTech rimfire blend came out clean.
I'll pick up some boxes and give it a try. I bought a crap ton of that Federal Auto Match stuff that comes in the 325 rd boxes. It's not as dirty as some stuff I've used before but I still get occasional malfs with both my Rugers using that ammo.
Try the Norma Tac-22 stuff. Weirdly clean, maybe because it's got some sort of very light lube on it. Put 150 rounds through the TacSol x-ring and the patches soaked in BoreTech rimfire blend came out clean.
Thanks for the info!
I'll pick up some boxes and give it a try. I bought a crap ton of that Federal Auto Match stuff that comes in the 325 rd boxes. It's not as dirty as some stuff I've used before but I still get occasional malfs with both my Rugers using that ammo.
Thanks for the info!
Let me know how you like it, please.
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