View Full Version : Germany leaving NATO in 3, 2, 1...
https://www.zerohedge.com/energy/gazprom-declares-force-majeure-will-halt-gas-flows-germany-indefinitely
If I'm interpreting the situation correctly, sanctions forbade Canada from selling Gazprom turbines that they may or may not have desperately needed, and now they're retaliating by refusing to deliver the gas.
If this is really how things stand, I think Germany is going to be snuggling up to Putin in the near future. It starts getting chilly there at the end of August, especially in the mountains, and 50% of their homes and public buildings use natural gas to heat with. Another small percentage use heat oil, and the rest use electric, which as I understand it is heavily reliant on natural gas from Russia.
Coal Dragger
07-19-22, 00:14
The stupid Krauts made their bed, now those Eurocucks can sleep in it.
The Dumb Gun Collector
07-19-22, 00:24
They ain’t leaving nato
Averageman
07-19-22, 01:21
Perhaps not, but I am willing to bet you somewhere in the German .gov, someone has a plan to capitulate.
You lose two World Wars and all the testosterone in your society takes a serious nose dive. Faced with a cold winter and limited fuel suddenly becoming French becomes appealing.
FromMyColdDeadHand
07-19-22, 07:28
They won't leave NATO. NATO is really just Germany and the US playing the UK role since the 16th century. It's to keep the balance of power stable in Europe, and if Germany isn't in it, there is no reason for it.
No Germany stays and back stabs people from the inside.
They ain’t leaving nato
Yeah, that's pretty obvious. Not sure how "leaving NATO" would help the situation either, since the EU has imposed direct sanctions on Russia. Leaving NATO would also require Germany to actually think about their own defense, and considering how hard it is to get them to even spend 2% on their military now, I doubt they'd want to pay the bill required to stand alone.
But in general, yeah, Germany (and a lot of Europe in general) made this bed, and now they can lie in it. Trump called it years ago, and they laughed at him and his calls for Europe to prepare for their own defense.
NATO to Germany:
"You want us on that wall; you need us on that wall!"
Sounds to me like Germany might not want to shut down those last 3 nuke power plants.
But really what does Germany offer to NATO they are a paper tiger right now. If Poland gets all the equipment they want they are going to be a powerhouse as far as land forces.
Wasn’t it Trump who was ridiculed for telling Germany not to buy oil and gas from Russia?
Seems Trump was correct yet again and all the experts were wrong.
Germany isn’t going anywhere.
https://dailycaller.com/2022/03/07/donald-trump-warned-united-nation-relying-russian-oil-german-delegation-laughed/
Defaultmp3
07-19-22, 14:40
Wasn’t it Trump who was ridiculed for telling Germany not to buy oil and gas from Russia?
Seems Trump was correct yet again and all the experts were wrong.
Germany isn’t going anywhere.Uh... pretty sure every American administration has wanted the EU to cut its reliance on Russian energy exports, even back when it was the West Germans reaching out to the Soviets. Obama was also a critic of the Nord Stream 2.
Uh pretty sure if that wasn’t the case Trump wouldn’t have been ridiculed.
Defaultmp3
07-19-22, 15:15
Uh pretty sure if that wasn’t the case Trump wouldn’t have been ridiculed.Not really. Trump was ridiculed for his tactless and hyperbolic statements, not for the underlying reasoning. The 2014 Crimean crisis made clear to the Eastern Europeans that the idea of economic entanglement was not going to be a viable strategy, and also made Obama much more public in his criticisms of Merkel's approach.
I thought we established a while back that Zerohedge ran episodes of “Russia Says the Darnedest Things” sometimes.
Not really. Trump was ridiculed for his tactless and hyperbolic statements, not for the underlying reasoning. The 2014 Crimean crisis made clear to the Eastern Europeans that the idea of economic entanglement was not going to be a viable strategy, and also made Obama much more public in his criticisms of Merkel's approach.
Not really. Trump was ridiculed for nearly everything he said or did by the lying media.
If they were so enlightened by Crimea why do they now face issues?
Wasn’t it Trump who was ridiculed for telling Germany not to buy oil and gas from Russia?
Seems Trump was correct yet again and all the experts were wrong.
Germany isn’t going anywhere.
https://dailycaller.com/2022/03/07/donald-trump-warned-united-nation-relying-russian-oil-german-delegation-laughed/
I wouldn't credit Trump with the idea. It's been beyond obvious for decades that Germany needed to become energy independent, but you know how it is trying to get people to make short term sacrifices for long term gains. It's like trying to get fat people to go on a diet. They know they should, but they're not going to do it. They always say they will, but they almost never do. The simple truth of the matter is that Germany is going to do what's easiest for them, and cheapest, which is to snuggle up to Putin. NATO and the EU are done. Especially with the Euro collapsing, Germany's in no position to be building pipelines and paying higher prices for energy, especially when the prices are already borderline unaffordable. Getting independent of Russia would have been difficult at any point in the last two decades when the Euro was strong, but doing it now would cripple them economically.
Uh... pretty sure every American administration has wanted the EU to cut its reliance on Russian energy exports, even back when it was the West Germans reaching out to the Soviets. Obama was also a critic of the Nord Stream 2.
Good points! I guess in retrospect NATO and the EU's days were numbered from the beginning. It was all well and fine while Russia was still weak from the fall of the Soviet Union, but now that they've got their strength back, Germany's inability to gain energy independence is not strategically sustainable.
Averageman
07-19-22, 22:45
Good points! I guess in retrospect NATO and the EU's days were numbered from the beginning. It was all well and fine while Russia was still weak from the fall of the Soviet Union, but now that they've got their strength back, Germany's inability to gain energy independence is not strategically sustainable.
I don't believe "Russia has their strength back" in retrospect they may be stronger than they've been in years. But no where as strong as they were four years before the wall came down.
And you may ask "Why did The Wall come down"? Because they're a paper tiger, full of bluff and bluster. 70% or so of their mighty nuclear force wouldn't have launched then and I'm guessing those numbers haven't much changed now.
If the Germans can make it through the winter, I can assure you Putin won't.
He will either be dead or exiled by March.
I don't believe "Russia has their strength back" in retrospect they may be stronger than they've been in years. But no where as strong as they were four years before the wall came down.
And you may ask "Why did The Wall come down"? Because they're a paper tiger, full of bluff and bluster. 70% or so of their mighty nuclear force wouldn't have launched then and I'm guessing those numbers haven't much changed now.
If the Germans can make it through the winter, I can assure you Putin won't.
He will either be dead or exiled by March.
Like twice a week there's a rumor that Putin has a terminal disease, is going to be assassinated, or is going to be forced to step down.
As far as their strength, they have a great balance sheet, a relatively physically fit population to draw conscripts from, a relatively harmonious society (vs. our all out culture war in the west), their own unlimited supply of natural resources, and powerful allies like China.
Averageman
07-20-22, 00:56
What I'm saying has nothing to do with his health and everything to do with the EU holding their line.
The last time someone told the Russians F.U. it was Ronald Reagan and Ronnie was moving some short range nukes in to Germany. Everyone said the USSR will launch.
They didn't. They capitulated in three years and the wall came down.
They're currently tied in a knot that they can't untangle in Ukraine. It's much harder to sell their oil now, even harder if the EU plays hardball.
Putin's disease may be underestimating a lot of people who've got his number.
Paper Tigers can burn.
What I'm saying has nothing to do with his health and everything to do with the EU holding their line.
The last time someone told the Russians F.U. it was Ronald Reagan and Ronnie was moving some short range nukes in to Germany. Everyone said the USSR will launch.
They didn't. They capitulated in three years and the wall came down.
They're currently tied in a knot that they can't untangle in Ukraine. It's much harder to sell their oil now, even harder if the EU plays hardball.
Putin's disease may be underestimating a lot of people who've got his number.
Paper Tigers can burn.
It's hard to untangle the truth from the lies, but I don't think Putin is suffering. On the contrary, he's gotten pretty much everything he wanted. He holds most of the ethnic Russian eastern Ukrainian territories and is days/weeks away from having all of them, Ukraine isn't looking like they're getting into NATO anytime soon, and the Ruble is doing better than it has in decades. Which should come as no surprise since the sanctions we've placed on Russia have hurt us worse than them. For example, we're still buying their oil, we're just paying the Indians to be middlemen. So the Russians are still selling the oil, we're just paying more for it now.
The Dumb Gun Collector
07-20-22, 18:11
Allright, this has become another Pro-Democracy vs. Pro-Putin thread. Go to the Ukraine war thread.
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