View Full Version : Handgun Options for Bear Defense
Heavyweight
07-19-22, 16:03
Greetings Gentlemen,
My wife and I are going to get the hell out of this 110 degree Texas heat and hit Glacier Bay National Park for some R&R. I'm an experienced hunter, hiker and camper but not in bear country. I've done the research and read all of the literature that says bear spray is a more effective deterrent but I still think I will have considerably more peace of mind with a piece on my hip. My question for those of you who spend time in bear country has two parts:
1. What do you think about carrying bear spray and a pistol both? I'm kind of thinking that first line of defense would be to lay down a cloud of spray. Then if that failed you have the pistol to fall back on. Or am I being totally unrealistic about time in this situation? Am I only going to have time for one or the other? Do I leave the gun in the backpack so that at the moment of truth there is just one plan to follow and thus no hesitation/confusion?
2. I've got lots of pistol options but I've narrowed my choice down to either my S&W Model 29 or my Glock 20. I know that 10mm can't hold a candle to .44 magnum but 16 rounds vs 6 feels like a big advantage. I am really leaning towards the Glock but this is where I need to know if I'm being stupid. Does caliber trump capacity here?
I know a bear attack is highly unlikely statistically speaking and I'm sure I'm over thinking it. But I'm a boy scout at heart.....be prepared. I welcome any tips or suggestions fellas.
Stay safe
Heavyweight
Outlander Systems
07-19-22, 17:29
https://hillpeoplegear.com/Products/CategoryID/1
kihnspiracy
07-19-22, 18:06
Hill People Gear Recon kit bag
Underwood or Buffalo Bore 10mm ammo
Glock 20 gen 4
This is what I bring whenever we go to Glacier.
Everything we read says that bear spray is the best choice. But, yes, I would also carry a handgun with me.
The 44 Magnum would be better against bears, but since bear attacks are rare (and you would have bear spray with you), I would carry the 10mm Glock for 2 legs predators and everything else.
Another idea. You could carry the Glock 20 in one of those chest packs, and your wife the S&W 29 in another one.
“Honey, I don’t like the way Yogi is looking at us. Pass me the 29 please.”
Have you shot the shit out of that Glock to make sure it isn't going to take a shit. I saw a video about a dead guy and an empty can of spray, so yes BOTH. Id go 44 mag, YMMV
PB
A guy consolidated the data from all bear defensive shootings where a handgun was used. 97% effective across all calibers, including 7 9mm shootings that were 100% effective. I'm pretty sure you won't be undergunned with a 10mm using hardcast bullets.
Here's the article:
https://www.ammoland.com/2020/03/update-handgun-or-pistol-against-bear-attack-93-cases-97-effective/
Heavyweight
07-19-22, 21:04
Have you shot the shit out of that Glock to make sure it isn't going to take a shit. I saw a video about a dead guy and an empty can of spray, so yes BOTH. Id go 44 mag, YMMV
PBYes Sir....it's a gen 3 G20 with several thousand rounds through it at least. I think I'm just going to bring both pistols like j102 suggested because I can't make up my damn mind. I'm going to carry the model 29 and let my wife carry the G20. Mrs. Heavyweight can even shoot the Glock in a pinch but she will not even touch the .44 mag.
By the way those Hill People chest rigs look fantastic. Thanks to whoever posted that link. I ordered two of them. That's why I post here. I always learn something.
Heavyweight
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titsonritz
07-19-22, 23:08
How many rounds of bear worthy rounds have been through it? I carried a Gen 3 G20 as my woods gun for a short while, figured commonality with my CCW G19 was a good thing, but went back to 44mag...just prefer the horse power of a 310+gr hardcast heavy.
Yes Sir....it's a gen 3 G20 with several thousand rounds through it at least. I think I'm just going to bring both pistols like j102 suggested because I can't make up my damn mind. I'm going to carry the model 29 and let my wife carry the G20. Mrs. Heavyweight can even shoot the Glock in a pinch but she will not even touch the .44 mag.
By the way those Hill People chest rigs look fantastic. Thanks to whoever posted that link. I ordered two of them. That's why I post here. I always learn something.
Heavyweight
Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
A guy consolidated the data from all bear defensive shootings where a handgun was used. 97% effective across all calibers, including 7 9mm shootings that were 100% effective. I'm pretty sure you won't be undergunned with a 10mm using hardcast bullets.
Here's the article:
https://www.ammoland.com/2020/03/update-handgun-or-pistol-against-bear-attack-93-cases-97-effective/
Thanks for posting that link. I know I've read it before, and as soon as I saw the thread title I was gonna go look for it.
My favorite woods gun is 10mm 1911. It's my one concession to FUDDism.
The Hill People bag is wonderful. I have had mine for many years. Gun, magazines, TQ, wallet, cell phone.
You shoot a 44mag fast and accurate under stress? At a moving target? Practice reloading it often?
Some may answer yes. The rest of us should pick a deep penetrating round for a gun we shoot more often and more good.
10mm is kind of in between, some can shoot it well coming from a 9/40/45 while some need a lot of work with it. Shoot a good amount of the load you intend to carry, I’ve seen a gun choke on the heaviest stuff that had ran thousands of regular 10mm.
The chances of needing a reload in a bear attack are slim to none. You might get the opportunity to get one round off and you better make it count.
I'll stick with .44 mag in the unlikely event I have the need to defend against a bear.
Send it...
07-20-22, 09:34
When we go moose hunting in AK, we both carry glock 20's in chest rigs with buffalo bore hard casts.
Brown bears are stunningly large when your 3 days and a float plane ride from any help. Makes you feel really small and insignificant.
Shot a 458 win mag in the dirt and over the head of a 9' bear at 22 yds that was harassing us. It didn't even blink.
I've been moose hunting in Alaska three times in my life. Every time I noticed all the locals were open carrying revolvers. More 6" 357's than anything else. But I always carried a 44 Ruger Alaskan. Never had to use it, but I was comfortable with it. I know all the reviews and experiences speak for themselves about bear spray being effective, but the Fairbanks and North Pole residents don't bother with it. They use handguns as bear protection. And ya, they even joke about bear spray. Saying how to tell the difference between moose poop and bear poop? the bear poop has remnants of tourists and smells like bear spray.
The only bear we ever shot was oozing around on our cabin porch one morning, not scared of people. We were all yelling at it from inside the cabin. It actually started pushing on one of the windows, but never broke in. We had myself with my 44 and my step mom with a 7mm Rem mag pointed at it should the window have broken. Luckily it lost interest and walked off the porch, but not away. My dad opened the door and dispatched it with a 18" 12ga 00 buckshot. One shot center mass and it crumbled. Rug mount is on the wall. We could have sprayed it, but maybe only shooed it away, then we'd have an unafraid bear in the vicinity of our HQ.
Similar to what was mentioned here, we were not taking a chance with an unafraid bear when we were a 4 hour air boat ride away from civilization. Then another 2 hours to a hospital.
If you think you could get half a mag of your 10mm on it fast from a distance then you ought to be fine. If you are attacked by surprise, I would rather have a large revolver for a point blank shot if you could get anything off.
If you just want to shoo the bear away then get your own butts out of the vicinity as the main safety measure, then bear spray should be sufficient. I always heard, you do not spray and stay. You gotta move out if you spray a bear.
Heavyweight
07-20-22, 12:17
The chances of needing a reload in a bear attack are slim to none. You might get the opportunity to get one round off and you better make it count.
I'll stick with .44 mag in the unlikely event I have the need to defend against a bear.This is the conclusion I'm coming to as well. With a bear moving at 35 MPH (51 Ft/sec) there just isn't going to be any time in a surprise scenario.
I've got enough 220 grain Underwood flat nose to feel comfortable with my G20, but the .44 mag is going to be with me I think.
Heavyweight
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I'd take a Glock 20 (I have one) over any revolver.
If for no other reason than I have revolvers but have not shot them in years, shoot Glocks frequently.
If if my skill level was similar, I'd still rather bet my life on 16 rounds (chances) of 10mm versus 6 of whatever (44 mag).
I'd have to take the G20 with hard cast ammo. How quickly can you get off a 2nd shot or even a 3rd with a 44 Mag? Yes the 1st has to count but if it doesn't stop the attack right away, follow up shot or shots would be a lot quicker with the G20. I black bear hunt with a Ruger Bisley Super Blackhawk in 454 Casull. However, I'm shooting 45 LC 325gr WFNGC ammo. 500lb - 600lb black bears are fairly common. I have no worries shooting the Ruger in a hunting situation. I absolutely wouldn't use it as a defense gun though. Way to slow working a single action gun. Reason I mention this is that even though the 44Mag is a double action it is still slow compared to the G20.
I wish you a beautiful and exciting trip.
I’m out of the 44 magnum game, curtesy of Krav Maga broken neck and back (apparently all were hanging by a thread when I used a sludge hammer on them—neurosurgeon humor is funny). I busted both elbows requiring ulnar nerve move on both sides. A long way of saying that if your skeleton took a beating earlier in life, the 10mm with hot aka properly loaded ammo would keep you safe.
I can and do shoot several mags of Underwood in my (now discontinued) Springfield TRP 10mm RMR. The big con for your scenario is that it lacks a rail; not a con for your Glock
Enjoy the trip!
gunnerblue
07-20-22, 17:55
I live about three hours from Glacier in grizzly country and I carry both a firearm and spray. Spray is an excellent deterrent but lacks finality so I just accept the weight penalty.
As far as caliber choice I always recommend when asked to carry the gun with which you can actually make hits under stress. For most I'd suspect this would be 10mm over .44 mag. Very few people can afford to shoot enough heavy revolver ammo to become proficient.
Bear attacks in this area are almost always defensive in nature and happen very fast. Due to the thick brush, the bear will most likely be on top of you before you know it. I prefer short barreled revolvers in large calibers that can be manipulated in tight confines without worrying about slides going out of battery and that leaves large leaking holes.
OP, I don't know your travel plans but fly fishing season is in full swing around Missoula and there are lots of hot springs between that town and Glacier if you're interested.
The chances of needing a reload in a bear attack are slim to none. You might get the opportunity to get one round off and you better make it count.
I'll stick with .44 mag in the unlikely event I have the need to defend against a bear.
I can’t help but notice you skipped right over my first four points to counter my fifth. I put fast, accurate, under stress, and moving target before reloading.
The amount of people who own a 44mag that almost never gets shot, much less fast or on a timer to add stress, is most. Having a 44mag and having real skills with it are two different things. I would carry less gun if I was more skilled with it,
I was attacked by a cougar once. Only had the opportunity to get one round off and I did make it count. 180gr 308 partition straight down the length of the body, dropped in a full bound. The thing I remember was how it never went out of attack mode as it died. Mortally wounded, but never tried to get away. It was fixed on me and trying to get back up AT me, but couldn’t. I put another 308 in it as it tried to crawl towards me.
If I had a revolver and not a rifle I probably would have emptied it. I’d very much like to be able to reload quickly under stress if a giant bear was fixed on attacking me.
The chances of needing a reload in a bear attack are slim to none. You might get the opportunity to get one round off and you better make it count.
I'll stick with .44 mag in the unlikely event I have the need to defend against a bear.
Actually, no. See the 93 cases of handgun bear defense article. Many times, these conflicts become protracted struggles where a number of shots are fired.
https://www.ammoland.com/2020/03/update-handgun-or-pistol-against-bear-attack-93-cases-97-effective/#axzz7ZeYsU8qD
This is pretty much the same thing as "I carry a j-frame because I can get five baddies with it, and if you can't you shouldn't be carrying a gun."
I don't have to deal with bears, but if I did, I'd carry my XDM with my own 180 grain hardcast. If I had to carry a revolver I'd carry my 686 with 180 grain hardcast. All rounds loaded to max published specs.
Whenever I'm hiking about the Blue Ridge mountains I carry a Glock 20 w/spare mag, just in case of a bear encounter, which never happened.
Outlander Systems
07-21-22, 08:00
https://youtu.be/LXfMNHnpvDk
Alaskapopo
07-21-22, 22:00
I've been moose hunting in Alaska three times in my life. Every time I noticed all the locals were open carrying revolvers. More 6" 357's than anything else. But I always carried a 44 Ruger Alaskan. Never had to use it, but I was comfortable with it. I know all the reviews and experiences speak for themselves about bear spray being effective, but the Fairbanks and North Pole residents don't bother with it. They use handguns as bear protection. And ya, they even joke about bear spray. Saying how to tell the difference between moose poop and bear poop? the bear poop has remnants of tourists and smells like bear spray.
The only bear we ever shot was oozing around on our cabin porch one morning, not scared of people. We were all yelling at it from inside the cabin. It actually started pushing on one of the windows, but never broke in. We had myself with my 44 and my step mom with a 7mm Rem mag pointed at it should the window have broken. Luckily it lost interest and walked off the porch, but not away. My dad opened the door and dispatched it with a 18" 12ga 00 buckshot. One shot center mass and it crumbled. Rug mount is on the wall. We could have sprayed it, but maybe only shooed it away, then we'd have an unafraid bear in the vicinity of our HQ.
Similar to what was mentioned here, we were not taking a chance with an unafraid bear when we were a 4 hour air boat ride away from civilization. Then another 2 hours to a hospital.
If you think you could get half a mag of your 10mm on it fast from a distance then you ought to be fine. If you are attacked by surprise, I would rather have a large revolver for a point blank shot if you could get anything off.
If you just want to shoo the bear away then get your own butts out of the vicinity as the main safety measure, then bear spray should be sufficient. I always heard, you do not spray and stay. You gotta move out if you spray a bear.
I live up here in Alaska with brown bears running through my yard. The 10mm is very popular here as is the 44 mag. 357 mags less so. But they will work with the right ammo.
I live up here in Alaska with brown bears running through my yard. The 10mm is very popular here as is the 44 mag. 357 mags less so. But they will work with the right ammo.
Top .357 180 grain loads equal top 180 or 200 grain 10mm loads in energy. The .357 bullet would have a slight theoretical advantage over the .400 bullet because of the slightly higher sectional density. But I'm thinking there's no effective difference and it's all down to placement and a bit of luck. 16 > 6.
Alaskapopo
07-22-22, 01:06
Top .357 180 grain loads equal top 180 or 200 grain 10mm loads in energy. The .357 bullet would have a slight theoretical advantage over the .400 bullet because of the slightly higher sectional density. But I'm thinking there's no effective difference and it's all down to placement and a bit of luck. 16 > 6.. I reload for both I get 1280 fps with 200 grain hard cast lead slugs. With the 357 the most I can get with 180 grain bullets is 1080 in a 6 inch revolver.
. I reload for both I get 1280 fps with 200 grain hard cast lead slugs. With the 357 the most I can get with 180 grain bullets is 1080 in a 6 inch revolver.
Accurate Arms slower powders run 180 grain at 1200+. You might do even better with 2400 or 296.
Alaskapopo
07-22-22, 04:08
Accurate Arms slower powders run 180 grain at 1200+. You might do even better with 2400 or 296.
I have used 296 and H110 as well as lil gun. The 357 mag just doesn’t get the advertised velocities for me. I am not willing to go over published data though
Still, do we not think a 180 grain 0.357 hardcast at almost 1200 fps would penetrate adequately on even a large bear?
Alaskapopo
07-22-22, 04:51
It would be fine with proper shot placement and luck. But would much prefer my Glock 10mm for ease of use and a bit more horsepower
WillieThom
07-22-22, 07:42
Stop it with your experience and the experiences of others who live in grizz country, yo! That man has read some sheeeit!
If you live in Alaska, you have to worry about 1000 pound bears. 10mm.
If you live in TX, you have to worry about 300 pound thugs. 9mm.
If you live in Alaska, you have to worry about 1000 pound bears. 10mm.
If you live in TX, you have to worry about 300 pound thugs. 9mm.
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=388
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