View Full Version : Free advice from attorneys about firearm related bumper stickers and shirts
I thought this would be a worthwhile video. Take heed and protect yourself from the silly things that might lead to trouble. This video has a few tips about not displaying humor oriented firearm bumper stickers and t-shirts. I know many will not agree with these thoughts but it's not all about truth and justice when the legal system becomes involved.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJV3uhXkWtg&t=204s
but it's not all about truth and justice when the legal system becomes involved.
No joke. I watched a show on an old case here in AZ where a guy shot some nut job in the woods. The shoot was iffy/borderline justifiable. But the prosecution made a huge deal out of the 10mm caliber used. To your point... our legal system can go full retard for sure.
A million years ago, my first job when I got out of college was in the intel community. Nothing exciting, for sure. We had a counterintel brief, and most of it boiled down to 'be the gray man' and 'situational awareness.'
NOTHING on a vehicle...no colleges, sports teams, stupid stick figure families, gun stuff, political endorsements...nothing.
NOTHING on a vehicle...no colleges, sports teams, stupid stick figure families, gin stuff, political endorsements...nothing.
Sound advice. I do appreciate the guys who are "in your face" with their gun stuff too however. It's good to torture lunatic leftists. But it's not my thing to put my shooting out there for the world to see. (besides here on M4, of course)
IIRC, not too long ago this sort of thing came up with a guy involved in a HD scenario and his "molon labe" inscription on his lower became a factor in the decision?
Basically the same as open carry for "look at me" affirmation.
Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk
Yup, anything you put out there can be used against you. Something you meant as a smart ass comment or a joke can get real serious in a prosecutors argument.
It's a shame, but you gotta be thinking proactively and "long view" in today's world. I don't put stuff on my cars or often on my person, but if a prosecutor dived into my M4C content I might have some "splainin' to do". Should my life ever get placed under the microscope I'm sure I've provided ammo to the enemy, but I TRY to minimize it these days.
Basically the same as open carry for "look at me" affirmation.
Sent from my SM-A326U using TapatalkUmmm no.
Those that think that are complete morons.
I can NOT conceal carry in many places, I can however legally open carry in most of those places, like schools.
Only an idiot would argue that shootings do not happen in gun free locations, so if I can only open carry in those areas it isn't about "look at me", its about, "I'm able to protect my family".
The anti gun fools that constantly bitch about open carry remind me of clowns like "Beto" down in Texas that say "I'm pro gun, but........."
As to the topic in the OP, I agree its best to avoid bumper stickers.
so if I can only open carry in those areas it isn't about "look at me", its about, "I'm able to protect my family".
If open carry is your only option... by all means. However concealment is probably wiser more often than not.
Take that recent mall shooter for example. Had he seen the good guy in the mall open carrying, it's conceivable that the good guy could have taken the first bullet when the nut came out of the bathroom. Not to go down the "what if?, what if?" worm hole too far. But not drawing attention from mental cases and having an element of surprise does have some value.
So I should remove my "KILL EM ALL...LET GOD SORT THEM OUT" bumper sticker?
I think I can cover it with a new one "Support Higher Education: Send A Cop To Middle School."
If open carry is your only option... by all means. However concealment is probably wiser more often than not.
Take that recent mall shooter for example. Had he seen the good guy in the mall open carrying, it's conceivable that the good guy could have taken the first bullet when the nut came out of the bathroom. Not to go down the "what if?, what if?" worm hole too far. But not drawing attention from mental cases and having an element of surprise does have some value.
As with everything, comes with advantages and disadvantages. It both deters and attracts potential problems.
But really comes down to this, the SAME people are armed, why is being visibly armed a "rights" problem for some? If people can be openly gay, I can be openly armed.
So everyone should probably respect the rights of others and enjoy the fact that you have the right. I can lawfully open carry a slung M4 in my state. But so far I haven't really needed to so I haven't, I understand that it might make some uncomfortable which can translate into fewer people respecting my rights, especially when they vote. But at the same time, there is merit to rights not exercised are those most at risk and the activist crowd sometimes keeps this stuff on the front burner. The trick is how to do it without alienating a bunch of people.
There are things I make sure I do, and more important things I do not do, when I am open carrying a handgun. For example I tend to be very polite in my daily interactions and I don't dress like a "Nam vet" or go full Tactical Timmy. I don't want any "normal" person to feel like they need to be concerned. I'm usually khakis and polo (office casual) and most people seem to assume my firearm is occupation related.
titsonritz
07-28-22, 19:27
A buddy of mine gets one of those big "Oregunian" stickers to put across the rear in his truck window, I tell his is an idiot to put that shit on his truck and that he would be begging to have his truck broken into or his house targeted. He thinks about it and goes, "Maybe you're right." Well, duh. Fast forward 3 months...he pulls up with a "We the People" mural with 45LC cartridges across the whole back of his tailgate. I just shake my head, "Yeah, looks great dude."
Im not worried. 15 years as a cop Ive never seen anything of the sort actually happen. Obviously Arizona is different than somewhere like Portland.
Ive taken many many reports of guns and equipment stolen out of cars. 90+ percent of the time it happened because the vehicle was left unlocked and the dude walking down the street at 0-dark-30 trying door handles happened across the open car containing a gun. The rest of the cases involved leaving expensive items or nicer looking bags in plain sight and the suspects broke the window and snatched the bag out of the seat. Ive never taken a case or actually heard of one locally that we could actually even half way determine was caused by the bumper sticker being a "come steal a gun here" beacon. Again, location matters. There are A LOT of vehicles driving around the Phoenix Metro area with gun stickers on them.
As far as trial goes, Ive never seen stickers or the such brought up in a criminal case. But then again I cant remember any bad self defense shootings. Ive had a couple that weren't the best examples, but they were still good shoots. I have had a premeditated murder try to be disguised as a self defense shoot though.
If open carry is your only option... by all means. However concealment is probably wiser more often than not.
Take that recent mall shooter for example. Had he seen the good guy in the mall open carrying, it's conceivable that the good guy could have taken the first bullet when the nut came out of the bathroom. Not to go down the "what if?, what if?" worm hole too far. But not drawing attention from mental cases and having an element of surprise does have some value.
Agreed concealment is probably better in many situations, but the "you do it to be an attention whore" posts are frustrating because that is a bold faced lie that ignorant people parrot over and over when many times there are many other reasons they are not aware of. The first time I OCed was after shoulder surgery where there was no chance of using my weak side arm to move a cover garment for about 6 weeks so it was way faster and easier to just OC.
I'll leave the mall shooting alone to not drift the thread any further.
Ive never taken a case or actually heard of one locally that we could actually even half way determine was caused by the bumper sticker being a "come steal a gun here" beacon. Again, location matters. There are A LOT of vehicles driving around the Phoenix Metro area with gun stickers on them.
I've seen a couple where people lost handguns and had HK logo stickers and crap like that on their vehicle.
Years back on TOS a guy who lost an AR and had a giant "Molon Labe" w/ boltface logo across the rear window of his pickup. Black tint with white lettering.
I've seen a couple where people lost handguns and had HK logo stickers and crap like that on their vehicle.
Years back on TOS a guy who lost an AR and had a giant "Molon Labe" w/ boltface logo across the rear window of his pickup. Black tint with white lettering.I guess they took him at his word.
I don't put stickers on my vehicles. Gun related stickers are like auto part stickers - cool to stick on a toolbox or something in your mancave.
Andy
ThirdWatcher
07-29-22, 03:50
I agree. No stickers of any kind on my vehicles, NONE. I’ve never worn any kind of LE tee shirt or gear off duty. I alway CCW but I’ve never worn a firearm in public when I wasn’t on the job.
Averageman
07-29-22, 05:26
I don't use stickers on my truck, as a matter of fact I've taken all the stickers off my Tacoma, and the badges too.
I'm reminded of hearing some shenanigans some Terrorists pulled off as I was driving through the parking lot of my local mega hardware store, just fuming about the event and I spotted some hipster loading his car up and he had one of those "Coexist" bumper stickers. I gave that SOB an earful of shi+ for that.
I've also read that having a gun or right wing bumper sticker in Austin will get you keyed.
I don't need that in my life.
I have zero stickers on my vehicles. I dress most of the time in jeans and a button down shirt.
The only "tactical" thing I wear are Solomon boots, this is do to an old ding in my right foot and Solomon boots give me a pain free foot after a lot of years of pain.
Straight Shooter
07-29-22, 05:44
Stickers only on the safe, in my bedroom.
If forced into a choice where I can legally open carry, or illegally conceal it, I will conceal it every time. If its properly concealed....nobody will ever know. I treat every public space as a non permissive environment where someone catching a brief glimpse of your gun has consequences. I have yet to see an open carrier in my area (Maine/NH/VT) that wasn't a complete assclown with a garbage gun/holster combo. To include a guy at walmart wearing an ankle holster...in shorts. Open carry by an armed citizen is not the deterrent you think it is, its usually an invitation. And now when the active shooter is selecting victims, some do gooder can yell "Hey, you have a gun, help us!"
If forced into a choice where I can legally open carry, or illegally conceal it, I will conceal it every time. If its properly concealed....nobody will ever know. I treat every public space as a non permissive environment where someone catching a brief glimpse of your gun has consequences. I have yet to see an open carrier in my area (Maine/NH/VT) that wasn't a complete assclown with a garbage gun/holster combo. To include a guy at walmart wearing an ankle holster...in shorts. Open carry by an armed citizen is not the deterrent you think it is, its usually an invitation. And now when the active shooter is selecting victims, some do gooder can yell "Hey, you have a gun, help us!"Ok so you openly admit you will break the law rather than follow it.
If illegally carrying a gun and your crazed gunman appears, you shoot them and go directly to jail. No wonder people hate gun owners!
I would recommend you follow your username.
Welcome to the ignore list
If forced into a choice where I can legally open carry, or illegally conceal it, I will conceal it every time. If its properly concealed....nobody will ever know. I treat every public space as a non permissive environment where someone catching a brief glimpse of your gun has consequences. I have yet to see an open carrier in my area (Maine/NH/VT) that wasn't a complete assclown with a garbage gun/holster combo. To include a guy at walmart wearing an ankle holster...in shorts. Open carry by an armed citizen is not the deterrent you think it is, its usually an invitation. And now when the active shooter is selecting victims, some do gooder can yell "Hey, you have a gun, help us!"
Yep. I don't carry as faithfully as I used to. But here in AZ, it used to be, or maybe still is, illegal to carry in an establishment that serves alcohol. (I think restaurants are ok now if you're not drinking?). Anyway, you had to carry in violation of the law.
If forced into a choice where I can legally open carry, or illegally conceal it, I will conceal it every time. If its properly concealed....nobody will ever know. I treat every public space as a non permissive environment where someone catching a brief glimpse of your gun has consequences. I have yet to see an open carrier in my area (Maine/NH/VT) that wasn't a complete assclown with a garbage gun/holster combo. To include a guy at walmart wearing an ankle holster...in shorts. Open carry by an armed citizen is not the deterrent you think it is, its usually an invitation. And now when the active shooter is selecting victims, some do gooder can yell "Hey, you have a gun, help us!"
Yep. I don't carry as faithfully as I used to. But here in AZ, it used to be, or maybe still is, illegal to carry in an establishment that serves alcohol. (I think restaurants are ok now if you're not drinking?). Anyway, you had to carry in violation of the law.
I agree. No stickers of any kind on my vehicles, NONE.
I do have a subdued MAGPUL logo sticker (black on black tint). It's kind of hard to see and a douchey lib or a booger eating gang banger knowing what that logo is. I've never had anyone make mention of it in many years.
Ok so you openly admit you will break the law rather than follow it.
If illegally carrying a gun and your crazed gunman appears, you shoot them and go directly to jail. No wonder people hate gun owners!
I would recommend you follow your username.
Welcome to the ignore list
Non gun owners hate open carriers more than they do the concealed carriers they HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT.
Non gun owners hate open carriers more than they do the concealed carriers they HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT.
Without a doubt. Nothing draws the ire of a gun hater like a visible firearm on an obviously non-LE person.
Non gun owners hate open carriers more than they do the concealed carriers they HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT.
Without a doubt. Nothing draws the ire of a gun hater like a visible firearm on an obviously non-LE person.
A million years ago, my first job when I got out of college was in the intel community. Nothing exciting, for sure. We had a counterintel brief, and most of it boiled down to 'be the gray man' and 'situational awareness.'
NOTHING on a vehicle...no colleges, sports teams, stupid stick figure families, gun stuff, political endorsements...nothing.
Advice I certainly live by. At a minimum, WHATEVER sticker you may put on your vehicle, someone will take issue with it.
I don’t advertise my preferences/lifestyle/politics.
(My range bag has a “FUKK You” sticker, but that’s different.)
Without a doubt. Nothing draws the ire of a gun hater like a visible firearm on an obviously non-LE person.
So you're saying someone NOT breaking the law and minding there own business is hated more than a person that illegally shoots someone in a no gun zone?
I'm going to have to throw a flag on that one.
Every news station for miles around will have coverage of that illegal event, because it proves what they preach vs something that most people have no clue you are doing. Most non gun owners do not see OC guns, but news headlines of doing illegal things gets everyone's attention.
The county I live in has almost double the population of Mr illegal carry is better entire state, so his opinion is just that, his closed minded opinion.
I live in the same county as the 44th most dangerous city in the world, and can say for a fact, the mythical "target on your back" is just that.
One ghetto idiot had a gun in his back pocket get snatched here, but I can post numerous links of CCer's losing there guns as well, so that argument is a giant waste of time about a dozen from each camp had lost guns, so argueing about that tiny number is not really something to waste energy on.
A group called Michigan open carry here has numerous members (over 1k attended an event at tge state capital nit long ago) so people OC here all the time without issue, yet the garbage spewed about oc being bad isn't happening.
My point, if people don't like OC, they should CC themselves and shut up, as opposed to bitching like Joe biden and beto about how pro gun they are but ramble on and on like an antigunner.
Did Mr illegal carry is better tell the person ankle carrying while wearing shorts that it was not a good idea because ABC reasons, or just whine about it online, I'd bet the latter? If I see someone doing something stupid I'll take two minutes and try to educate them.
I'm wondering if the haters here bitched as much about homos kissing in public or women breast feeding in public which both were frowned upon a decade ago, but are common now because those people didn't eat their own like gun owners do.
We can go to pm's if you want to continue the discussion to not derail the thread further.
Open carriers are the village idiots of the gun community - they're part of the community, but most of us wish they would just grow a brain. One foot solidly in Fudd-ville and the other in them-is-ma-raats-ville. Tactically unsupportable, and socially anathema.
Not to say there aren't certain RARE situations where open carry is necessary, or concealed becomes overly impractical, because there are. But they are RARE.
Open carriers are the village idiots of the gun community - they're part of the community, but most of us wish they would just grow a brain. One foot solidly in Fudd-ville and the other in them-is-ma-raats-ville. Tactically unsupportable, and socially anathema.
Not to say there aren't certain RARE situations where open carry is necessary, or concealed becomes overly impractical, because there are. But they are RARE.
Pretty much. If I have to open carry (run into pay for gas really quick, etc.)... I try to cover my weapon with my arm, my body position, etc.
Pretty much. If I have to open carry (run into pay for gas really quick, etc.)... I try to cover my weapon with my arm, my body position, etc.
Agreed. Not saying letting your gun be seen in a rare situation is the end of the world, but proudly strutting around with an open carry weapon on the regular like you're somehow displaying your manhood, is solid loser territory.
Agreed. Not saying letting your gun be seen in a rare situation is the end of the world, but proudly strutting around with an open carry weapon on the regular like you're somehow displaying your manhood, is solid loser territory.
So I roll a shoot me first vest, am I really fooling anyone? Anyone who might do this or that because I open carry is still gonna know I'm carrying and will still be able to try and do this or that.
So what is the actual difference? Cops still know I have a gun, criminals still know I have a gun, anyone who carries concealed and has a 4th grade education still knows I have a gun. When I lived in South Florida I used to pick out CCW guys all day long.
Large fanny pack? Might as well say GUN on it.
Reporters vest? Might as well say GUN on it.
T shirt with open button down in May to Oct? Might as well say GUN on it.
And the guys with the super tuck, deep conceal thing going on...might as well leave the damn thing at home because you'll never get to it in time as most problems are already "in progress."
And saying OC is about "projecting" some kind of image is as retarded as saying "Guys with ARs with suppressors and lights are wannabe seals who couldn't make the cut." And there are people that actually believe that crap too.
I've even heard to anti gun crowd say "people who hide their weapons do so because they know what they are doing is wrong."
So no matter what you own, how you carry it...there will be large numbers of people who will become experts on why you are doing what you are doing because they know HOW YOU THINK and HOW YOU FEEL.
A million years ago, my first job when I got out of college was in the intel community. Nothing exciting, for sure. We had a counterintel brief, and most of it boiled down to 'be the gray man' and 'situational awareness.'
NOTHING on a vehicle...no colleges, sports teams, stupid stick figure families, gun stuff, political endorsements...nothing.
Wisdom ^
Agreed. Not saying letting your gun be seen in a rare situation is the end of the world, but proudly strutting around with an open carry weapon on the regular like you're somehow displaying your manhood, is solid loser territory.
Agree on OC, as they do more political harm, than good.
But to say they’re asserting an implied missing manhood overlooks the greater truth: gun owners themselves make widespread use of language and lexicon of the Gay Rights Lobby, calling themselves a “community” like the homosexuals do, and regularly circulate “news” gleaned from “tweets” like teenage girls, do.
Grown, adult men doing this. If these things are not a damning indictment of lost American masculinity, I don’t know what is.
It would be hilariously amusing if it were not so shameful.
Agree on OC, as they do more political harm, than good.
But to say they’re asserting an implied missing manhood overlooks the greater truth: gun owners themselves make widespread use of language and lexicon of the Gay Rights Lobby, calling themselves a “community” like the homosexuals do, and regularly circulate “news” gleaned from “tweets” like teenage girls, do.
Grown, adult men doing this. If these things are not a damning indictment of lost American masculinity, I don’t know what is.
It would be hilariously amusing if it were not so shameful.
Borrowed political expediency? Can't say it's not ok for X if you already said it's ok for Y?
So I roll a shoot me first vest, am I really fooling anyone? Anyone who might do this or that because I open carry is still gonna know I'm carrying and will still be able to try and do this or that.
So what is the actual difference? Cops still know I have a gun, criminals still know I have a gun, anyone who carries concealed and has a 4th grade education still knows I have a gun. When I lived in South Florida I used to pick out CCW guys all day long.
Large fanny pack? Might as well say GUN on it.
Reporters vest? Might as well say GUN on it.
T shirt with open button down in May to Oct? Might as well say GUN on it.
And the guys with the super tuck, deep conceal thing going on...might as well leave the damn thing at home because you'll never get to it in time as most problems are already "in progress."
And saying OC is about "projecting" some kind of image is as retarded as saying "Guys with ARs with suppressors and lights are wannabe seals who couldn't make the cut." And there are people that actually believe that crap too.
I've even heard to anti gun crowd say "people who hide their weapons do so because they know what they are doing is wrong."
So no matter what you own, how you carry it...there will be large numbers of people who will become experts on why you are doing what you are doing because they know HOW YOU THINK and HOW YOU FEEL.
Quoted for truth.
Open carriers are the village idiots of the gun community - they're part of the community, but most of us wish they would just grow a brain. One foot solidly in Fudd-ville and the other in them-is-ma-raats-ville. Tactically unsupportable, and socially anathema.
Not to say there aren't certain RARE situations where open carry is necessary, or concealed becomes overly impractical, because there are. But they are RARE.
Should we cower in fear lest someone see us performing an act that is not only legal, but confirmed to be constitutionally protected? We aren't pedophiles, we are free American citizens.
I don't attend open carry rallies (don't know if thats even a thing here) but I certainly open carry when I drive to the range and I am fortunate enough to do that weekly. Normally I carry my G19 in a black ALS belt holster, which is a pretty discrete package, but it could be anything from a 22 revolver in leather to a CZ-75 in a tan SLS rig. I don't stop at the mall on the way, but certainly think nothing of popping into a store or gas station and NO ONE CARES. No weird looks, no scorn, no worries.
I grew up in a world where everyone owned and sometimes carried guns. They did neither as a display, they were simply tools.
When I am not making a trip to the range or on a rare hunting trip, I carry concealed, discreetly, or not at all.
I don't have gun stickers on my vehicle because I don't have stickers at all. I don't wear gun related shirts because they are tacky and I am not sponsored by anyone. Its my personality to blend in, I don't do it to avoid any possible liability or to avoid offending some babykiller communist tree hugger.
Andy
diving dave
07-30-22, 09:11
In my old city where I worked as a LEO, we had a group of guys who would meet at a Starbucks and all were open carry. At first it was a few 911 calls, "there's guys with guns here!" And believe it or not, it wasn't from coffee shop employees but customers. Anyway eventually the local media caught wind, and came out to do a story. Fast forward a month, one of them was walking across the parking lot to his car . He was attacked by a parolee from behind and knocked out, and his gun taken. We caught the guy sometime later and he admitted he saw the news story and figured that was the easiest way to get a gun. I open carry if I'm up in the mountains, but there's just too many idiots out there for me to open carry around people.
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