View Full Version : You guys who were stationed in Germany, have a question.
I've had friends from "back in the day" who were stationed in Germany. They will often mention the "Turks", usually associated with a "red light" district for shady crap, like buying hash-hish and other unsavory stuff. They were kind of German riff-raff.
My question is are the "Turks" actually Gypsies?
Averageman
07-31-22, 19:02
Turkish migrant workers.
Leonidas24
07-31-22, 22:55
I've had friends from "back in the day" who were stationed in Germany. They will often mention the "Turks", usually associated with a "red light" district for shady crap, like buying hash-hish and other unsavory stuff. They were kind of German riff-raff.
My question is are the "Turks" actually Gypsies?
Turkish immigrants or children of immigrants. 2007-2010 the younger Turks were recognizable by their over greased faux-hawks and shemaghs done up in fashionable scarves. There were parts of Schweinfurt, Wurzburg, Frankfurt, etc we were told to stay away from because of the Turks. There was at least one fight every weekend at one of the three big clubs in Schweinfurt between Americans and Turks.
When my unit reflagged and relocated from Schweinfurt to Grafenwohr, that all died down. Graf was small, with only two bars within reasonable walking distance of the back gate and one that was so far away few Americans frequented it. That was my platoon's bar, because no one else was stupid enough to walk 3 miles to a bar on winter rotation in Graf with 12 inches of snow on the ground. It was mostly frequented by middle-aged Germans that liked classic rock and quiet evenings. And, that's how it was for most of my time in Graf. Toward the middle of 2010 the owner knocked down a wall to expand the bar and add a pool table, slot machines, and a couple dart boards. By that time business had picked up and the quiet evenings of eating cashews off the bar and drinking Heffeweisen had been traded for larger crowds and louder music. The point of that story is that the owner was a Turk everyone called Yanni, who served in the Turkish army back in the 80s. Most badass bartender and owner I've ever met.
Turkish migrant workers.
Yep saw a few in the mid 70's doing the jobs Germans didn't want to do. Last time I was in Frankfurt in late 80's I was struck by the number of African and Asians I saw, US is not the only place where chain migration is an issue.
I was there late 80's and they were a huge mistake, realized way too late. German Government thought it was a great idea for post war cheap labor.
I was there late 80's and they were a huge mistake, realized way too late. German Government thought it was a great idea for post war cheap labor.
The problem is if your citizenry is "too good" or "too expensive" to do certain labor intensive, or "dirty jobs", someone is going to come to your country and fill the void.
I was in Kitzingen (outside of Wuerzburg) 02-06. I remember they weren't great company. One guy was stabbed while hitting on one of their girls. I wasn't really I to the bar/club thing, so I don't have any personal experience.
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StovePipe_Jammer
08-01-22, 11:40
I was in Germany '02-'05 and "The Turks" were definitely a safety issue for Americans. (Obviously, not all Turks but we were warned to keep your head on a swivel if they're present in any numbers)
In Landstuhl, around midnight, an American walking by himself got stabbed in the kidneys by a group of them. They disappeared into the woodwork, the Polizei threw up their hands and had the victim transported to the hospital.
One block over from the red light district in Frankfurt there was a heavily Turk-owned/operated area. If you were alone or if there weren't a lot of people present (witnesses), they would shout something in English at those they believed were American. If you responded as if you immediately understood them, you'd get jumped. I've had them try that on more than one occasion.
The best way I've found to describe the Turks in Germany is to compare them to illegal immigrants in the states. Good and bad apples among them but the bad apples are really bad, run in groups and if they see an opportunity to right a perceived wrong...look out. Overseas, the risk skyrockets when the perceived wrong is "being American".
The best contribution, in my opinion, was bringing the Doner Kebab mainstream there. Unfortunately, I can't find them stateside the way they make them there.
I was in Germany '02-'05 and "The Turks" were definitely a safety issue for Americans. (Obviously, not all Turks but we were warned to keep your head on a swivel if they're present in any numbers)
In Landstuhl, around midnight, an American walking by himself got stabbed in the kidneys by a group of them. They disappeared into the woodwork, the Polizei threw up their hands and had the victim transported to the hospital.
One block over from the red light district in Frankfurt there was a heavily Turk-owned/operated area. If you were alone or if there weren't a lot of people present (witnesses), they would shout something in English at those they believed were American. If you responded as if you immediately understood them, you'd get jumped. I've had them try that on more than one occasion.
The best way I've found to describe the Turks in Germany is to compare them to illegal immigrants in the states. Good and bad apples among them but the bad apples are really bad, run in groups and if they see an opportunity to right a perceived wrong...look out. Overseas, the risk skyrockets when the perceived wrong is "being American".
The best contribution, in my opinion, was bringing the Doner Kebab mainstream there. Unfortunately, I can't find them stateside the way they make them there.
Dude, I miss the Doner Kebabs! Kitzingen had a great little shop. If I ever go back to Germany, that's one of my first stops.
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No, not at all. Completely different in every way.
Turks in Germany are akin to Mexicans in America. They're the largest immigrant population over there. There are Turkish neighborhoods in major cities that have become trendy nightlife districts in later years (namely Kreuzberg in Berlin). There's a Turkish street food called Doener that's similar to the Greek Gyro, and little Doener restaurants are as ubiquitous throughout Germany and Austria as Mexican restaurants in the American Southwest. They also run shisha bars where you can go smoke hookahs (which your friend might have confused with hashish, but it's just flavored tobacco).
Gypsies are a completely different ethnic group that's been in Western Europe much longer than the Turks. So long in fact nobody can remember where they came from. There's a lot of debate about what ethnic group they belong to, and where they originated. They were thought to have originated in Romania, but I think that's been largely disproven. They have their own language and religion that's very similar to voodoo, whereas the Turks are mostly Muslim (they're losing their religion though as the younger generations have become highly integrated). They're mostly nomadic, whereas the Turks put down roots and buy property. The Gypsies mostly do fortune telling and things like that, whereas the Turks start businesses. Ethnic Germans have mostly lost interest in business ownership completely, so the Turks are taking their place as service providers.
Averageman
08-01-22, 16:58
I was married to a Spanish girl with red hair, she looked an awful lot like Bridgette Bardot.
She also spoke about 15 languages, Turkish being one of them.
I used to carry an old Mess Kit knife I had sharpened two edges on.
Only twice did I have to pull it.e I assume they thought she was one of theirs.
I'm not a little guy, my only hobby back then was weight lifting. Between that and her cussing them out in their own language the point was made.
I miss those days.
No, not at all. Completely different in every way.
Turks in Germany are akin to Mexicans in America. They're the largest immigrant population over there. There are Turkish neighborhoods in major cities that have become trendy nightlife districts in later years (namely Kreuzberg in Berlin). There's a Turkish street food called Doener that's similar to the Greek Gyro, and little Doener restaurants are as ubiquitous throughout Germany and Austria as Mexican restaurants in the American Southwest. They also run shisha bars where you can go smoke hookahs (which your friend might have confused with hashish, but it's just flavored tobacco).
Gypsies are a completely different ethnic group that's been in Western Europe much longer than the Turks. So long in fact nobody can remember where they came from. There's a lot of debate about what ethnic group they belong to, and where they originated. They were thought to have originated in Romania, but I think that's been largely disproven. They have their own language and religion that's very similar to voodoo, whereas the Turks are mostly Muslim (they're losing their religion though as the younger generations have become highly integrated). They're mostly nomadic, whereas the Turks put down roots and buy property. The Gypsies mostly do fortune telling and things like that, whereas the Turks start businesses. Ethnic Germans have mostly lost interest in business ownership completely, so the Turks are taking their place as service providers.
IIRC there was an article a few years back that actually attempted to trace the origin of Gypsies (like pre-European). It was debated whether they were from Iran (Persia then) or actually India.
The Turks aren't Gypsies. When I was in Frankfurt in the late 80s, the Turks were a problem. About a month before I PCS'd, one of my guys was coming back from Sachsenhausen and got jumped by several and stabbed several times. He coded on the bridge and German EMTs brought him back, coded on the way to the German hospital and they brought him back and he coded while in surgery but they brought him back. He then got transferred to the Army hospital after about 3-4 days. I went and checked on him daily until I started out-processing then checked in on him every other day or so and the day before I left. Kevin's prognosis for full recovery was good. I ran into him about 23 years later and he was working for the VA in Houston and doing well. I haven't heard from him since around 2015.
I was in Germany '02-'05 and "The Turks" were definitely a safety issue for Americans. (Obviously, not all Turks but we were warned to keep your head on a swivel if they're present in any numbers)
In Landstuhl, around midnight, an American walking by himself got stabbed in the kidneys by a group of them. They disappeared into the woodwork, the Polizei threw up their hands and had the victim transported to the hospital.
One block over from the red light district in Frankfurt there was a heavily Turk-owned/operated area. If you were alone or if there weren't a lot of people present (witnesses), they would shout something in English at those they believed were American. If you responded as if you immediately understood them, you'd get jumped. I've had them try that on more than one occasion.
The best way I've found to describe the Turks in Germany is to compare them to illegal immigrants in the states. Good and bad apples among them but the bad apples are really bad, run in groups and if they see an opportunity to right a perceived wrong...look out. Overseas, the risk skyrockets when the perceived wrong is "being American".
The best contribution, in my opinion, was bringing the Doner Kebab mainstream there. Unfortunately, I can't find them stateside the way they make them there.
I was not aware that Turks had an issue with America.
Why do the Turks in Germany hate Americans?
I was not aware that Turks had an issue with America.
Why do the Turks in Germany hate Americans?
They're not overly fond of Germans, either. When I was going to Gymnasium in Berlin it was widely known you had to travel in large groups at night. Everybody's parents would tell them never go to Kreuzberg unless you're in a big group. Neu Koeln was the no go district you just didn't go to period. That was their turf. I've heard Kreuzberg has gotten pretty heavily gentrified since then, but from the way I see Neu Koeln portrayed in the media it seems like it's gotten more closed off to westerners.
Averageman
08-03-22, 02:11
If I remember correctly as long as you traveled in a group of two or more, you were good to go of you stick. To the main streets.
People that got hemmed up had been drinking, were cutting across town through smaller streets to make their trip faster. Usually unarmed.
There were a lot of safe "shortcuts" that got sketchy as hell after dark.
I remember it got dark at like 16:30 in the winter.
Just like anything, it's about situational awareness and who your traveling with.
My Ex couldn't shut up and enjoyed confrontation and humiliating them in Turkish. I remember being surrounded and they thought she was Turkish and she just wouldn't shut up
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