View Full Version : Jones to pay many millions...
I'm conflicted: I have zero empathy for Jones, but Free Speech includes protection for those you consider a POS for a human. I do think if anyone pushed it beyond the boundaries of acceptable (can't yell fire in a theater under Free Speech, etc) it's him, but fine line there. Such cases do have the potential to suppress Free Speech, and that's all that worries me here.
First time I was really aware of Jones when was he claimed there was Martial Law in Boston during the Boston bombings, which was total BS. Someone who worked for him went the neighborhood, Watertown (a town over from me at the time) and right after the event started asking moronic Qs, and there was a great vid (wish I could find it!) of someone telling dude he'd best STFU or he'd get is a$$ kicked. I had buddies in the middle of that (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BzDL4Va5Mo&t=1361s), including right at the end at the boat, have knowledge of that one more than most, other then those that were right in the middle of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnxaYdJeaq0
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-06-22, 12:43
There are so many real and need to be exposed screw ups around mass shootings, why do you need to make stuff up. Never paid attention to the case. Never really liked his style or his show. He was a hammer nailing screws and hit a nail every once In a while. So many other people to listen to. Jones and Zerohedge are on my list of places that seem like they should work, but never seem to pan out all the way.
Something tells me he can afford it, and I imagine he thinks it's money well spent for the opportunity to make that Epstein quote on record. That was truly excellent!
I really don't know what to think about the verdict. I mean, they accused the families of lying, so the claims have a lot of substance. The fact that he's a personality who makes loads of money from talking about conspiracy theories also pretty well solidifies the fact that he did in fact profit from slandering them.
The only thing that seems to fall short is the requirement that the person doing the slandering had done it intentionally. For example, to cite a case everyone here knows well, Ventura won against Kyle because Kyle obviously knew he was telling a lie. Had Kyle simply been repeating a story he had been told, that he believed to be true, it wouldn't have been slander. I.e. "gossip" and "fake news" aren't slander.
But Jones is a reasonably sophisticated person with decades of experience as a broadcast journalist, so you could easily argue that he was negligent. I.e. he "should have known better." But there's also the assumption amongst the general public that Jones is unhinged and 100% believes the stuff he says.
I could also see Jones having fallen into a sort of psychosis where he can no longer distinguish what's real and what's not. I think a lot of people into conspiracy theories are in that place. The level of insanity in terms of what's turned out to be factual is so high, that an informed person like Jones could honestly be forgiven for no longer being able to intuitively know what's possible and what's stark raving BS. I mean, over his career, he's been vindicated on several counts that were, at the time, so unbelievable that any rational person would have classified them as stark raving BS. Once you find yourself living in a world where your industry, media, and political figures are all worshipping a giant owl statue and having mock (we hope) human sacrifices, you know, after a while, flat earth stuff might start to sound not so impossible to you.
Another burden I don't think was met, though, and the most important one, is the claim that the families were damaged by Jones. Perhaps they experienced some emotional distress, but reputationally they weren't damaged at all. 99.99% of people out there don't even know about Jones and his ilk or their claims about the Sandy Hook conspiracy. And the ones who do, the vast majority of them only have more sympathy for the families as a result of that awareness. They haven't faced any reputational repercussions as a result of this (like losing a job, being ostracized from their community, etc.).
Also for anyone who doubts the veracity of the event itself, this is a great deep dive into Lanza:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-J5yNtwo7A
The primary argument for the alleged conspiracy is that Lanza didn't exist, and of course you have to ignore a mountain of evidence to arrive at that conclusion. The guy who did that video is a shining example of outstanding journalism, and I highly recommend watching it.
Coal Dragger
08-06-22, 13:11
He’s an ass: he intentionally and knowingly slandered people for profit.
This verdict is justified, it’s just too bad all of the Jones fan boys (I’ll bet there are a bunch of them on here) can’t also be held financially liable.
Same, I really never cared for a lot of what he said but free speech is free speech. Jones is just being made an example of, no different than the 01/06 folks being made an example of.
There are so many real and need to be exposed screw ups around mass shootings, why do you need to make stuff up. Never paid attention to the case. Never really liked his style or his show. He was a hammer nailing screws and hit a nail every once In a while. So many other people to listen to. Jones and Zerohedge are on my list of places that seem like they should work, but never seem to pan out all the way.
That's what gets the smoothed brained mouth breathers to follow you. As the man said "nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people." Jone is the poster child for that truth.
He’s an ass: he intentionally and knowingly slandered people for profit.
This verdict is justified, it’s just too bad all of the Jones fan boys (I’ll bet there are a bunch of them on here) can’t also be held financially liable.
His fan base has the IQ of a blender, but I only worry about the potential for such things to suppress Free Speech. I do tend to think in this case, he went over a line. But with such a precedent, could that line shift toward more restrictions on Free Speech? That worries me more than anything.
Same, I really never cared for a lot of what he said but free speech is free speech. Jones is just being made an example of, no different than the 01/06 folks being made an example of.
Apples to oranges really I think. Jones went way over the line as did CNN calling that kid a racist white nationalist and having to pay out. What Jones did another level.
He’s an ass: he intentionally and knowingly slandered people for profit.
This verdict is justified, it’s just too bad all of the Jones fan boys (I’ll bet there are a bunch of them on here) can’t also be held financially liable.
Mostly agree.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
08-06-22, 15:01
I'm shocked there arent an army of Alex Jones fans here, crying about this verdict.
One aspect is this is an attack on the 1st Amendment. This will set precedence. Remember, it's very easy to attack and not mind an attack on someone you don't like. First it will be Alex, then who next? Mark Levin? Steve Crowder? Shapiro? It's going to slowly get there and is a shame.
ChattanoogaPhil
08-06-22, 15:52
Jones is a loudmouth with a microphone who found an audience for conspiracy kook nonsense. He got called on his bs in a lawsuit. 1A is not a hold harmless from defamation and other civil liabilities. I saw a short vid clip of Jones in court recanting his bs about Sandy Hook being a hoax, and that now he knows it was "100% real". No doubt quite a letdown to his devout followers.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
08-06-22, 16:07
One aspect is this is an attack on the 1st Amendment. This will set precedence. Remember, it's very easy to attack and not mind an attack on someone you don't like. First it will be Alex, then who next? Mark Levin? Steve Crowder? Shapiro? It's going to slowly get there and is a shame.
No...this is a civil case from parents who were tired of being defamed by an asshole after their children were murdered.
One aspect is this is an attack on the 1st Amendment. This will set precedence. Remember, it's very easy to attack and not mind an attack on someone you don't like. First it will be Alex, then who next? Mark Levin? Steve Crowder? Shapiro? It's going to slowly get there and is a shame.
I'm not sure how it's being interpreted as an attack on the first amendment. Slander and libel have always been punishable in civil court all the way back to the very founding and before.
The only way this could be interpreted as an attack on the first amendment is if the accusations they made against the parents were true, or if at least the parents couldn't prove that the accusations were false. As it stands, the accusations were demonstrably false, and the parents could obviously easily prove they were false. And the fact that Jones is a credentialed, professional journalist with decades of experience makes his reporting on this pretty egregious from the standpoint of negligence. In other words, even if he wholeheartedly believed what he was saying at the time, he was negligent for not investigating the claims before reporting on them.
Were Jones just a tinfoil hat wearing guy on YouTube who wasn't in a position to know better, or to profit, this would be a whole different matter. It's like how you can get on YouTube and accuse specific astronauts of lying about going to the moon, vs. if a credentialed journalist did it they would be getting sued for defamation, for several reasons. One, they knew better. Two, they profited from the defamatory statements. And three, they had the credibility and audience to harm the victim reputationally (this is where I think the Jones case goes off the rails a bit, because he really has less than zero credibility and therefore lacks the ability to harm anyone reputationally, at least outside of his own conspiracy circle).
Diamondback
08-06-22, 16:23
Jones is a loudmouth and a jackass for sure. BUT, that's why the Left picked him as the Test Case for their new strategies, starting with Deplatforming. What they can do to the most vile and odious of us they can do at will to ANY of us.
Look into that big speech from Sir Thomas More in "A Man For All Seasons."
Most of his testimony, that I could stomach to watch, showed him to be the stupid, loudmouthed ass he is in real life. He's a liar and a clown and deserves everything he gets.
He was actually STUPID enough to accuse the judge hearing the case of being part of a pedophile ring. That takes some serious stupid right there.
The only reason I paid any attention is I have a good and otherwise intelligent buddy, who thinks this cat is all knowing. I've never listend to him myself, but I saw all I needed when he was on the stand.
Jones is a loudmouth and a jackass for sure. BUT, that's why the Left picked him as the Test Case for their new strategies, starting with Deplatforming. What they can do to the most vile and odious of us they can do at will to ANY of us.
Look into that big speech from Sir Thomas More in "A Man For All Seasons."
And in the 80s conservatives went after Larry Flynt. In the Flynt case it was much easier to argue "satire" and the victim was Falwell. Obviously Flynt's goal was to cause harm for profits, but he seems to have picked his targets better than Jones. Jones entire premise is that "this is real" and he went after the parents of dead kids for shock and profits. I think they ruled correctly, this guy is well withing Fred Phelps territory and needed to be smacked.
It is a test case for sure but I think it tested fine. I wouldn't want the Black Nation of Islam to be able to go on the radio and say "Allah killed all those kids because all white kids are essentially evil." There are limits to what you can broadcast on mass media.
Diamondback
08-06-22, 19:46
And in the 80s conservatives went after Larry Flynt. In the Flynt case it was much easier to argue "satire" and the victim was Falwell. Obviously Flynt's goal was to cause harm for profits, but he seems to have picked his targets better than Jones. Jones entire premise is that "this is real" and he went after the parents of dead kids for shock and profits. I think they ruled correctly, this guy is well withing Fred Phelps territory and needed to be smacked.
It is a test case for sure but I think it tested fine. I wouldn't want the Black Nation of Islam to be able to go on the radio and say "Allah killed all those kids because all white kids are essentially evil." There are limits to what you can broadcast on mass media.
I'm not saying Jones doesn't DESERVE a stomping-on--I'm just looking at the Pandora's Box of "precedent," much as I did in my opposition to the Patriot Act that the drooling-tard Shrubhumpers took as a Guinness Class Assblast from front-row-center in the middle of their highest and holiest of Masses.
"Hard cases make bad law."
I'm not saying Jones doesn't DESERVE a stomping-on--I'm just looking at the Pandora's Box of "precedent," much as I did in my opposition to the Patriot Act that the drooling-tard Shrubhumpers took as a Guinness Class Assblast from front-row-center in the middle of their highest and holiest of Masses.
"Hard cases make bad law."
Completely agree on Patriot Act, but that was a NEW law. Libel has been an existing law for a long time and I think even Jones knew he was crossing the line but was just testing the waters to see how far he could push his BS before getting called on it. He's just another shock jock, he's Howard Stern without any of the entertaining parts. Jones is a shit magnet who makes crazy, insane and fringe people feel vindicated in their ridiculous beliefs.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
08-07-22, 13:43
I'm not saying Jones doesn't DESERVE a stomping-on--I'm just looking at the Pandora's Box of "precedent," much as I did in my opposition to the Patriot Act that the drooling-tard Shrubhumpers took as a Guinness Class Assblast from front-row-center in the middle of their highest and holiest of Masses.
"Hard cases make bad law."
Can you cite the new precedent set in this case that worries you?
Can you cite the new precedent set in this case that worries you?
They were already laying the foundation for this on the local news this morning. (Discussion about losers suing over what people say)
The settlement/award was for punishment according to the Lawyer. It basically sets the stage for every lunatic libtard to sue if anything contradictory to their agenda is said.
I don't know much about Alex Jones, but it strikes me on the surface that a bunch of scumbags are making money of the death of the kids. I hope they rot for that!
They were already laying the foundation for this on the local news this morning. (Discussion about losers suing over what people say)
The settlement/award was for punishment according to the Lawyer. It basically sets the stage for every lunatic libtard to sue if anything contradictory to their agenda is said.
I don't know much about Alex Jones,
Then you may want to look into that one.
but it strikes me on the surface that a bunch of scumbags are making money of the death of the kids. I hope they rot for that!
That would be Jones in this case. Those who sued deserve ever penny and then some. Losing a kid in a shooting and then having some POS like Jones endlessly claiming it never happened, kids were all actors, etc, etc, they had a Right to finally have enough and go after that POS. I hope Jones is left without a penny, loses his homes, etc.
I knew several from the CT SWAT team that arrived on scene, several were never able to return to work after what they saw.
Having said all that, per OP, I'm still concerned how such a case could impact Free Speech, but the more I see and learn the details, less concerned I am about it. We all supported the kid who went after CNN for clear libel and I don't recall anyone here raising any concerns about Free Speech over it, as we all knew CNN was lying crap media, who deserved to be sued for what they did to him.
What Jones did was a million times worse. Per OP, he got on my radar after the Boston bombings.
Then you may want to look into that one.
That would be Jones in this case. Those who sued deserve ever penny and then some. Losing a kid in a shooting and then having some POS like Jones endlessly claiming it never happened, kids were all actors, etc, etc, they had a Right to finally have enough and go after that POS. I hope Jones is left without a penny, loses his homes, etc.
I knew several from the CT SWAT team that arrived on scene, several were never able to return to work after what they saw.
Having said all that, per OP, I'm still concerned how such a case could impact Free Speech, but the more I see and learn the details, less concerned I am about it. We all supported the kid who went after CNN for clear libel and I don't recall anyone here raising any concerns about Free Speech over it, as we all knew CNN was lying crap media, who deserved to be sued for what they did to him.
What Jones did was a million times worse. Per OP, he got on my radar after the Boston bombings.
I had a close personal friend from the CT. State Police (Covid took him) who was one of the first there (maybe the first 1 or 2 in?) and carried out one of those kids whom he knew wouldn't make it. He tells a heart breaking story of whispering into that dying child's ear about what a hero he was and how many lives he saved... knowing that the part of the brain that hears... dies last. He wanted him to know how importnat what that little guy did was to his classmates. I tear up as I type this. Patrick tells it and it is SO compelling. Jones is a dick and can suck it in the poverty lines for that crap.
ChattanoogaPhil
08-08-22, 10:14
"We all supported the kid who went after CNN for clear libel and I don't recall anyone here raising any concerns about Free Speech over it"
^^^^^
Politics tends to bring out the partisan hypocrisy and double standards in all of us. Most are blind to it. Kinda like drunk Green Bay fans. Replay camera can clearly show the ball down on the 5yd line. Doesn't matter. Stand up and scream TOUCHDOWN!
This is going to be a difficult one, but my view is that existing slander and libel laws should be followed. And not let emotion create bad precedent.
As distasteful and even wrong that Alex Jones was, the existing laws need to be followed.
By allowing a bad precedent to be set we will come to regret it long-term.
This is like the westboro crazies or Louis Farrakhan or Nazis, etc.
"We all supported the kid who went after CNN for clear libel and I don't recall anyone here raising any concerns about Free Speech over it"
^^^^^
Politics tends to bring out the partisan hypocrisy and double standards in all of us. Most are blind to it. Kinda like drunk Green Bay fans. Replay camera can clearly show the ball down on the 5yd line. Doesn't matter. Stand up and scream TOUCHDOWN!
Yep. If it rises to the legally defined/accepted level of slander or libel... all bets are off.
Trump is currently in the process of taking certain media outlets to court over slander / libel...I'm assuming Kyle Rittenhouse is in the same process. Free speech is great but has consequences as AJ is finding out.
I don't see a 1st amnd problem here & would bet the shock jock will go back to doing what he does...now if somehow the courts could force his platform down & keep him off the air, then there is our slippery slope. I'm also assuming AJ has touched on Hunter Biden being a pedo, overseas crook, lying on the 4473, etc & has nothing to worry about from him as he has some ammo to back up the claims to make those statements. He should have had the same cards on the fake shooting. I'm not following close but did read the parents were physically confronted & received death threats over his comments of them being crisis actors, so he's his own worst enemy here.
I had a close personal friend from the CT. State Police (Covid took him) who was one of the first there (maybe the first 1 or 2 in?) and carried out one of those kids whom he knew wouldn't make it. He tells a heart breaking story of whispering into that dying child's ear about what a hero he was and how many lives he saved... knowing that the part of the brain that hears... dies last. He wanted him to know how importnat what that little guy did was to his classmates. I tear up as I type this. Patrick tells it and it is SO compelling. Jones is a dick and can suck it in the poverty lines for that crap.
Reason 9,102,923 I could not do that job. I'd die inside from an experience like that, and I don't have any kids. As mentioned, several on that team were destroyed by that experience. I hope Jones ends up homeless. He's the bottom feeders bottom feeder.
As the "progressive" let media worthless humans have also been losing bigly lately for big $ for libel against people we support, I don't feel as bad about the hypocrisy / double standards usually applied to right wing conspiracy bottom feeders vs left, and it's much harder to sue and win against large media corps like CCN vs an individual like Jones, but it happened. If that prompts CNN and co to actually check their facts before running a story to fit their BS narrative, that's a win, and is not suppressing of Free Speech.
"We all supported the kid who went after CNN for clear libel and I don't recall anyone here raising any concerns about Free Speech over it"
^^^^^
Politics tends to bring out the partisan hypocrisy and double standards in all of us. Most are blind to it. Kinda like drunk Green Bay fans. Replay camera can clearly show the ball down on the 5yd line. Doesn't matter. Stand up and scream TOUCHDOWN!
Agreed!
This is going to be a difficult one, but my view is that existing slander and libel laws should be followed. And not let emotion create bad precedent.
As distasteful and even wrong that Alex Jones was, the existing laws need to be followed.
By allowing a bad precedent to be set we will come to regret it long-term.
This is like the westboro crazies or Louis Farrakhan or Nazis, etc.
I don't see that in this case. Is Rittenhouse good precedent because we support him? What Jones did many times worse than anything done by CNN etc to Rittenhouse much less Sandmann.
I don't see that in this case. Is Rittenhouse good precedent because we support him? What Jones did many times worse than anything done by CNN etc to Rittenhouse much less Sandmann.
Jones, scumbag that he may be, did not attack/defame any individuals.
Instead he promoted the idea that the event was a fake/black flag setup.
Was this hurtful to the parents who lost kids? Quite probably. Painful I'm sure.
But he did not accuse the parents or the kids of anything, instead he was questioning the official position of what happened.
What makes this a first amendment case is he was advocating an opinion. Which could be baseless, or conspiracy theory based on some anomalies which even others have admitted were odd.
When you are punatively fined for advocating an opinion which is unprovable even if unpopular, that is dangerous territory.
Jones, scumbag that he may be, did not attack/defame any individuals.
Instead he promoted the idea that the event was a fake/black flag setup.
Was this hurtful to the parents who lost kids? Quite probably. Painful I'm sure.
But he did not accuse the parents or the kids of anything, instead he was questioning the official position of what happened.
What makes this a first amendment case is he was advocating an opinion. Which could be baseless, or conspiracy theory based on some anomalies which even others have admitted were odd.
When you are punatively fined for advocating an opinion which is unprovable even if unpopular, that is dangerous territory.
I think a major part of that though was arguing that the parents were crisis actors faking everything. If I remember right, that was pretty much the entire conspiracy theory is that Adam Lanza never existed and the parents were all hired actors.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.