View Full Version : Side Charging AR Fad
Can anyone explain to me the seemingly increasing number of side charging AR’s?
Seems a piss poor solution to a non problem and introduces several negatives over the traditional CH.
I don’t get it.
I know right?! The charging handle is like third on the list of the AR's best features. I think it's mostly just ignorance. First time purchasers find the standard CH to be clumsy and think it's a downside, probably because they don't realize you have to use it exactly one time per range session, and never during an actual defensive use.
titsonritz
08-07-22, 23:25
Same guys that buy stacks of Anderson lowers and no name parts for their color.
Same guys that buy stacks of Anderson lowers and no name parts for their color.
And their side charging upper on Anderson lower with red ano parts is...gasp...a 7.62x39.:fie:
And their side charging upper on Anderson lower with red ano parts is...gasp...a 7.62x39.:fie:
I wondered if these were AK guys dipping their toes into the AR world.
But I still don’t get it.
Honestly I think it's because the AR market is over saturated and both consumers and manufactures feel the need to differentiate themselves from every other consumer/manufacturer in the market.
Even if there's really no reason for it.
Or, maybe I'm just jaded.
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Per Col. J. Cooper; “ an ingenious solution, to a non-existent problem”.
Said regarding the early “crunchen tickers”- double action/ single action 9mm’s.
That retarded shit is back again?
My sig, acr, and scar17 are side charging, I kind of like it.
Not a big deal though.
My sig, acr, and scar17 are side charging, I kind of like it.
Not a big deal though.
That makes sense at part of the original design. It works ergonomically. But modding the AR for this is so dumb.
My sig, acr, and scar17 are side charging, I kind of like it.
Not a big deal though.
I mean those are piston guns so they're retrogressive in more ways than one.:laugh:
One More Time
08-08-22, 10:14
I use Radian and BCM CH's.
Close enough to a side charger.
I could see it being convenient while prone.
See a lot of them on hunting AR's it seems.
My sig, acr, and scar17 are side charging, I kind of like it.
Not a big deal though.
None of which are an AR15.
My SCAR17 has one too but I don’t call it an AR15. Nor do I call my Tavor or AUG an AR15 and both have side charging handles.
Let’s add a slot right next to the BCG so all sorts of crap can get inside. Not to mention the newly added reciprocating mass.
titsonritz
08-08-22, 21:49
The uber cool ones are left handed side charging.
The uber cool ones are left handed side charging.
And, non-reciprocating.
Can anyone explain to me the seemingly increasing number of side charging AR’s?
Seems a piss poor solution to a non problem and introduces several negatives over the tradition CH.
I don’t get it.
What's even funnier is I side charge my Colts all the damn time.
What's even funnier is I side charge my Colts all the damn time.
Being that youre a side-charging bullpup, youre clearly biased.
bamashooter
08-09-22, 12:15
Can anyone explain to me the seemingly increasing number of side charging AR’s?
Seems a piss poor solution to a non problem and introduces several negatives over the traditional CH.
I don’t get it.
Not a "FAD".
Hell of a lot better design if you've ever needed to stay on target when inserting magazine.
Not a "FAD".
Hell of a lot better design if you've ever needed to stay on target when inserting magazine.What does inserting a mag have to do with the charging handle?
If you mean charging it while staying on target, that is an issue I have never had, I hit the ping pong paddle.
Soli Deo Gloria
titsonritz
08-09-22, 16:09
Not a "FAD".
Hell of a lot better design if you've ever needed to stay on target when inserting magazine.
Sounds like a training issue (or lack there of).
Hammer_Man
08-09-22, 20:56
Most side chargers I see are low grade Fudd garbage. The only side charger worth it IMO is JP Enterprises’.
Being that youre a side-charging bullpup, youre clearly biased.
I meant side charging the existing AR charging handle. I'd be amazed if anyone here actually doesn't know how to do that. Sure sometimes they feel the need to buy a Tac Latch or extended handle, but I can run a standard charging handle without even thinking about it.
Could put this up there with front cocking serrations.:lol:
The_War_Wagon
08-10-22, 09:42
Bought a POF-415 once, because I could. Still have yet to feel a need for a side charger AR. Besides, I have a CZ805 for that.
bamashooter
08-10-22, 10:18
Sounds like a training issue (or lack there of).
Hardly.
bamashooter
08-10-22, 10:19
Most side chargers I see are low grade Fudd garbage. The only side charger worth it IMO is JP Enterprises’.
I have a Gibbz. Excellent imo.
bamashooter
08-10-22, 10:20
Most side chargers I see are low grade Fudd garbage. The only side charger worth it IMO is JP Enterprises’.
I have a Gibbz. Excellent imo.
Hammer_Man
08-10-22, 10:28
I have a Gibbz. Excellent imo.
Just looked at their website, and it looks pretty good. I like that the charging handle doesn’t reciprocate with the bolt carrier.
Not a "FAD".
Hell of a lot better design if you've ever needed to stay on target when inserting magazine.
If you're already "on target" and need to change a mag, the bolt should be locked to the rear, with zero reason to use the charging handle. If you're doing a tactical reload, a round would already be in the chamber, so you would also have zero need to use the charging handle.
I do a lot of prone shooting with AR platforms, and i'm having a hard time thinking of a scenario when i would be on target, and need to stay on target, when the charging handle would need to be used at all. Changing a malfunction is the only scenario i can really think of, and i can't even remember the last time i had to do that. Are you getting on scope behind the gun and on target before even inserting a mag? If so, i don't think that's common practice by anyone.
Seems like an answer to a non-existent problem to me.
If you're already "on target" and need to change a mag, the bolt should be locked to the rear, with zero reason to use the charging handle. […] I do a lot of prone shooting with AR platforms
So I’m kinda new to shooting prone, and I’m curious how you’re dropping the bolt after a mag change. Let’s say you’re shooting right-handed, so your left hand is supporting the front of the rifle, maybe with help from a sling, and your left elbow is on the ground. Do you have an ambi bolt release that you can hit with your right hand, or do you reach over the top to hit the conventional release, or do you break position and use your left hand?
titsonritz
08-10-22, 16:03
So I’m kinda new to shooting prone, and I’m curious how you’re dropping the bolt after a mag change. Let’s say you’re shooting right-handed, so your left hand is supporting the front of the rifle, maybe with help from a sling, and your left elbow is on the ground. Do you have an ambi bolt release that you can hit with your right hand, or do you reach over the top to hit the conventional release, or do you break position and use your left hand?
Assuming right handed shooter, the left hand isn't supporting the front of the rifle when doing a mag change, it is inserting a fresh magazine, use it to drop the bolt via the release.
He might be referencing a High Power scenario when slung up. Normally folks would still use the bolt catch when slung in on a stage.
So I’m kinda new to shooting prone, and I’m curious how you’re dropping the bolt after a mag change. Let’s say you’re shooting right-handed, so your left hand is supporting the front of the rifle, maybe with help from a sling, and your left elbow is on the ground. Do you have an ambi bolt release that you can hit with your right hand, or do you reach over the top to hit the conventional release, or do you break position and use your left hand?
I always change my mag with my support hand, and never take my shooting hand off the gun when doing a mag change. It sounds like you may be asking about keeping your support elbow on the ground, and taking your shooting hand off the gun to change the mag so you don't "break position"? If that's the case, I don't think that's a best practice, and even at that, it's still almost impossible not to break position with the target considering the clearance and movement needed to drop and re-insert a 30-round mag. If you opt to do it that way, i could see something like a BAD lever possibly being helpful for a quicker bolt release, as long as it's reliable on your gun, but I don't think i'd advise changing mags with your shooting hand, personally.
When i shoot prone, I simply roll my weight slightly onto my right elbow, drop out the empty mag, insert a new mag it into the magwell with my support hand, and hit the bolt release. Then i roll my weight back and am right back on target. I can do a mag change much quicker with my support hand than my shooting hand.
I'm far from being an expert on the topic, but that's my .02
titsonritz
08-11-22, 02:49
He might be referencing a High Power scenario when slung up. Normally folks would still use the bolt catch when slung in on a stage.
Are Side Charging ARs a thing with High Power shooters? I have no clue.
So let's cut to the chase, I can run a FAL just fine. Standing or prone, no problem. I can mostly maintain my firing position during mag changes because of how the rifle is designed.
But I can do exactly the same thing with an AR by just running the left side of the charging handle. Side charging AR mods are as pointless as coming out with a FAL with a AR style rear charging handle. Just learn how to run your gun.
Are Side Charging ARs a thing with High Power shooters? I have no clue.
Not that I'm aware of, never seen it. Unless it's a "match rifle" it wouldn't be allowed as far as I know. For info, I've never seen a HP shooter use the CH during a reload. AND the position was broken, requiring remounting the gun.
Thanks all for the replies. As mark5pt56 surmised, I was thinking mostly about Highpower or the like, where your support side is encumbered with a sling and maybe a clumsy glove. I can see that in a more dynamic real-world situation, you’d want to use your support hand for the magazine change.
My reason for wading into this thread was that the only place I’ve actually seen a side-charger in use is on Highpower “spaceguns” that have a knob attached to the bolt carrier. I suppose their primary purpose is to allow for a high cheekpiece that might interfere with the usual charging handle, but they also provide a way to drop the bolt with the firing hand.
Based on what I've seen, side chargers usually fall in to 2 types, the reciprocating bolt on a carrier, which seems to be the simplest setup, and a different drop in charging handle, which seems more complicated.
While I do prefer a side charger in most platforms, I usually just upgrade the GI charge handle to an ambi like a Raptor or Geissele or add a Badger tac latch for big scopes. For me that's the cheapest & simplest 'fix', and everything's still swappable, no proprietary setups. I probably have too many ARs but I like knowing in a pinch I can snatch the carrier out of my 7.62x39 AR pistol and drop it in my 7.62x39 AR 16" carbine. Or swap handles if I'm swapping optics.
I will say the one AR charger setup that caught my eye was one that copied the HK left side full forward non-reciprocating charge handle of the HK G3/PTR91. Used to have a PTR-32 and that's a great setup, but I can also build a nice AR upper from what it costs.
Based on what I've seen, side chargers usually fall in to 2 types, the reciprocating bolt on a carrier, which seems to be the simplest setup, and a different drop in charging handle, which seems more complicated.
While I do prefer a side charger in most platforms, I usually just upgrade the GI charge handle to an ambi like a Raptor or Geissele or add a Badger tac latch for big scopes. For me that's the cheapest & simplest 'fix', and everything's still swappable, no proprietary setups. I probably have too many ARs but I like knowing in a pinch I can snatch the carrier out of my 7.62x39 AR pistol and drop it in my 7.62x39 AR 16" carbine. Or swap handles if I'm swapping optics.
I will say the one AR charger setup that caught my eye was one that copied the HK left side full forward non-reciprocating charge handle of the HK G3/PTR91. Used to have a PTR-32 and that's a great setup, but I can also build a nice AR upper from what it costs.
Are you thinking about Adcor?
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Are you thinking about Adcor?
He's probably thinking about Foxtrot Mike.
He's probably thinking about Foxtrot Mike.
Oh yeah. There's that too.
Are those actually any good?
Can they take standard AR barrels?
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The_War_Wagon
10-07-22, 10:38
It's the hopeychangey effect - "ooooh, look, something new & different, it MUST be 'better!'"
Oh yeah. There's that too.
Are those actually any good?
Can they take standard AR barrels?
Well, the FM only works with 9mm or some other blow-back caliber.. Think about it. The charging handle has to operate against a rod that has to go thru the gas tube hole in the upper, so it couldn't possibly work on anything that isn't blow-back. My bad for mentioning it in this discussion.
Well, the FM only works with 9mm or some other blow-back caliber.. Think about it. The charging handle has to operate against a rod that has to go thru the gas tube hole in the upper, so it couldn't possibly work on anything that isn't blow-back. My bad for mentioning it in this discussion.
They started with 9mm but they've expanded into 556.
https://www.brownells.com/firearms/rifles/semi-auto/mike-15-223-rifle-with-folding-zhukov-stock-prod144110.aspx
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They started with 9mm but they've expanded into 556.
https://www.brownells.com/firearms/rifles/semi-auto/mike-15-223-rifle-with-folding-zhukov-stock-prod144110.aspx
That's cool, but isn't it more like an AR180 than an AR15? Not that that's a bad thing, except for aesthetics.
That's cool, but isn't it more like an AR180 than an AR15? Not that that's a bad thing, except for aesthetics.
Kind of. You know how the original AR-16 was supposed to be DI but Armalite had sold the rights to the DI patient to Colt so they converted it to piston, then also downsized it to make the AR-18?
Think of this more like how Stoner intended the original AR-16 and 18 to be DI.
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Kind of. You know how the original AR-16 was supposed to be DI but Armalite had sold the rights to the DI patient to Colt so they converted it to piston, then also downsized it to make the AR-18?
Think of this more like how Stoner intended the original AR-16 and 18 to be DI.
I wasn't thinking as much about the gas system as I was the internal recoil spring.
I wasn't thinking as much about the gas system as I was the internal recoil spring.
Oh. Well yes. I think you're correct to the best of my understanding.
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robbins290
10-13-22, 13:15
Not going to lie, I used one for a few years for a low budget, night hunting rifle. Made it alot easier clearing the weapon wearing gloves. When I say gloves, I am talking -20 below, all night long gloves. They are thick, and hard to do anything. At the time, I could not find a good charging handle able to work without taking the gloves off, and the upper with side charger was less then 150 shipped so I rocked it for a little bit.
But now I used a extended charging handle.
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