View Full Version : Budger AR15s
hotbiggun42
08-20-22, 10:28
For years i stayed away from PSA gear, i was mostly a DD, BCM, Spikes guy. But several years ago i gave into temptation and bought a PSA AR pistol kit and since have put 1000s of rounds through it with no issues.
What are your concerns with budget ARs?
This thread is inspired by a knife thread i started and someone mentioned PSA ARs.
In general I do not have any issues with budget ARs. I have a M&P Sport that I keep lubed but have not cleaned, around 12K rounds with no issues. The issue in general is the QA/QC isn't as 'tight' as other brands so your chances of landing a turd and having out-of-spec parts is higher. And for a lot of people, hobbyists, enthusiasts, take-it-to-the-range-once-a-month folks, that's fine.
Can we not do this again? It comes up probably once a year and I don’t think there’s a convo that can be had that hasn’t already been had on this site.
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hotbiggun42
08-20-22, 12:45
Can we not do this again? It comes up probably once a year and I don’t think there’s a convo that can be had that hasn’t already been had on this site.
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Im not on here very often. What was the consensus last year?
Is there a difference between a 88 Pontiac Fiero and an 88 Ferrari F40?
titsonritz
08-20-22, 16:01
Can we not do this again? It comes up probably once a year and I don’t think there’s a convo that can be had that hasn’t already been had on this site.
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I think you should check the batteries in chronometer.
Just remember like 90% of the TDP is quality control. You can skip steps and make a facsimile that's visually and metallurgically indistinguishable from the real thing. The trick is making millions of them and having them all come out the same.
That's the difference between Colt and PSA. It's the same difference between the ropes they sell as climbing safety equipment and the ones that go to make dog leashes. Both are made by the same machines from the same materials.
If it absolutely must go bang, get a Colt M4. If it's a range toy, PSA is probably okay. That said, there are some annoying issues people commonly run into with them that you can highly likely avoid by spending a tad bit more.
The_War_Wagon
08-20-22, 17:57
We need an update to THE CHART!
https://i.ibb.co/nsnq282/the-chart8.jpg
Im not on here very often. What was the consensus last year?
You can search and read the threads for yourself.
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What price points do folks consider budget??
I just picked up a super clean low mileage BCM for $800.
OutofBatt3ry
08-20-22, 19:02
We need an update to THE CHART!
https://i.ibb.co/nsnq282/the-chart8.jpg
https://www.meme-arsenal.com/memes/d41b0aaf21d84898fbca2cb56801c986.jpg
OutofBatt3ry
08-20-22, 19:33
Where can I find "Budger" ARs?
lol
Just kidding. Can we edit thread titles? OP, you should edit your thread title. = )
re-gart-less....
I'm a huge fan of "if it's in spec and the materials are good, it doesn't matter"
What price points do folks consider budget??
I just picked up a super clean low mileage BCM for $800.
It's not really about price, at least not purely. There are plenty of shit ARs that cost as much as a KAC. Even in the milspec arena, you're almost always paying for a roll mark.
Where can I find "Budger" ARs?
lol
Just kidding. Can we edit thread titles? OP, you should edit your thread title. = )
re-gart-less....
I'm a huge fan of "if it's in spec and the materials are good, it doesn't matter"
There's no way to know those things, though. You could have all the equipment at the national laboratory at your disposal and still not know. It's about batch testing, proof testing individual parts when needed, and longitudinal data from large quantities of delivered rifles downrange.
That's why the TDP is still so coveted even after all these years. It's the product of millions of rifles delivered and billions of rounds fired, and it's constantly evolving and improving with the platform itself.
There are plenty of shit ARs that cost as much as a KAC.
Really??
Really??
Actually there are. I've seen people spend a lot of money on red rails, stainless barrels that happen to suck, weirdo flash hiders. pointless stock configs, idiotic triggers (skeletonized blade profiles) and the like.
Was at the range and some kid had what I thought was going to be a race gun but it was 100% Anderson grade parts but sure looked exciting, when he told me he had over $2500 in it it was really, really hard not to comment, laugh or say anything.
Actually there are. I've seen people spend a lot of money on red rails, stainless barrels that happen to suck, weirdo flash hiders. pointless stock configs, idiotic triggers (skeletonized blade profiles) and the like.
Was at the range and some kid had what I thought was going to be a race gun but it was 100% Anderson grade parts but sure looked exciting, when he told me he had over $2500 in it it was really, really hard not to comment, laugh or say anything.
Were I a hobby level competitive shooter, I would totally build a cheapo race gun. Might think differently if I were competing at a high level and had money or fame riding on it, but in that case I would be sponsored anyways and the point would be moot. I've built cheapo varmint and bench guns for other people, and reports were they shot as well as anything else.
Never done any red ano parts though. I keep wanting to do a themed AR pistol in some ridiculous style, just for fun, but haven't gotten around to it. I would really like to do a cartel style gun with all the shiny metal and engraving, but that sounds really expensive for something so pointless.
I do keep a cheap AR around for panics, along with cheap shotguns and Euro trash 00 buck. I'm building one such AR as we speak. I use good parts, but I buy them on sale. So far I've got a sale Cav Arms lower (which I'm actually super impressed with), a Brownells 20" chrome lined A1 barrel they had on closeout, a Brownells BCG, and an Anderson slick upper. It's going to be a decent quality build, especially for a 20". Doesn't take the best bolt in the world to be durable on a 20 incher. Other parts I have laying around, and I'll source the rest used on Reddit. I've got most of the small parts in my bin, so I mostly just need a handguard at this point.
I have a PSA Premium m4 factory gun. A PSA pistol lower. And a PSA Premium bolt group.. No problems out of them.
I still prefer my barrels to have a quality Chrome lining vs nitride.
titsonritz
08-20-22, 22:35
Actually there are. I've seen people spend a lot of money on red rails, stainless barrels that happen to suck, weirdo flash hiders. pointless stock configs, idiotic triggers (skeletonized blade profiles) and the like.
Was at the range and some kid had what I thought was going to be a race gun but it was 100% Anderson grade parts but sure looked exciting, when he told me he had over $2500 in it it was really, really hard not to comment, laugh or say anything.
What is really funny is when they try to sell it and wonder why they can't get anywhere near $2500 if anything at all.
Surely there are no factory crap AR's that have price points as the premiums folks are actually falling for are there?? I understand idiot builds.
It just seems to me like the BCM I found that finding a true good basic AR used is way more desirable than settling for immediate satisfaction...I mean $800 is reachable if you think a $600 is a budget gun.
Were I a hobby level competitive shooter, I would totally build a cheapo race gun.
For clarification, it wasn't a race gun. I assumed it was going to be a race gun, in reality it was a really expensive crap o matic. Like airsoft grade shit but at KAC prices.
Surely there are no factory crap AR's that have price points as the premiums folks are actually falling for are there?? I understand idiot builds.
It just seems to me like the BCM I found that finding a true good basic AR used is way more desirable than settling for immediate satisfaction...I mean $800 is reachable if you think a $600 is a budget gun.
Exhibit A: https://www.fimsfirearms.com/
$2400 pistol or carbine. I know nothing about the company but there are clues.
Andy
Surely there are no factory crap AR's that have price points as the premiums folks are actually falling for are there?? I understand idiot builds.
It just seems to me like the BCM I found that finding a true good basic AR used is way more desirable than settling for immediate satisfaction...I mean $800 is reachable if you think a $600 is a budget gun.
There are a few at the KAC price point, even more at the BCM-DD price points, and lots of garbage at the Colt price point. For a company putting out small numbers, its actually quite hard to make good rifles for cheap. Guns that have a lot of “features” are even harder, unless cheapo parts are used, and even then it’ll still cost more than a BCM if assembly and QA/QC are done well.
You have to pay for a facility, licensing and permitting, hiring, training, and paying employees (some of which may not even be involved in making guns), tools, gauges, and fixtures, buy or make the parts (most of the good ones are patented), accept the cost of rejects, make a profit despite dealer markup being low, etc.
At any given price point Colt and up, you are more likely to get a better rifle by sticking with established quality brands that have figured out economy of scale and avoiding frills that don’t match the budget. Anything under the Colt price point is a gamble (that you have decent odds of doing OK with) but not “duty grade”, or the DoD would be buying it.
The TL;DR answer is that a used quality unit is going to outperform nearly anything if the budget is legitimately tight.
Buy an upper, actually run it, decide if anything is actually worth replacing, drive on.
These are a lot like cars - when you go to a car show and realize how much money is spent on something that is functionally inferior to a decade old Camry, you'll realize that the $ spent to useful stuff achieved correlation coefficient is most definitely not 1.0
It's also hard to wade through all of the small volume boutique manufacturers to separate the shit from the shinola. They sell an AR at a similar price point to a BCM, Colt, or a DD, but there aren't enough on the market or enough volume to determine how good they are or are not. And if you're going to pay that kind of price, then why don't you just go for that BCM, Colt, or DD?
Windham Weaponry comes to mind as a brand that's not exactly Colt or BCM but has a good reputation for quality.
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