View Full Version : Dodge says goodbye to the muscle car era
I would imagine that these final models will be expensive collector's items:
"The Dodge Charger and Dodge Challenger, in current form, are coming to an end, and the Dodge brand is seizing the opportunity to celebrate in true, over-the-top Dodge style. The Dodge 2023 lineup will pay homage to the muscle car pair with seven special models, the return of a rainbow of heritage colors, an expansion of SRT Jailbreak models, a commemorative “Last Call” underhood plaque for all 2023 Charger and Challenger vehicles and a new, customer-focused vehicle allocation process."
https://media.stellantisnorthamerica.com/newsrelease.do?id=24058&mid=1466
Diamondback
08-21-22, 12:10
You mean Dodge says goodbye to the only things they're selling. What next, no more non-windup RAM trucks?
Man, I want that hellcat Durango. I’m just too cheap to pay MSRP on anything let alone pay an ADM fee.
It's sad, really to see the end of an era.
Electric performance is certainly convincing.
Here is the Tesla Plaid vs a Lamborghini Aventador SVJ.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkarW7YtdeU
This (https://www.motortrend.com/news/ken-blocks-hoonicorn-v2/) is what it takes to beat the Plaid.
The Hoonicorn is an insane, over the top, dedicated race car that is awesome to watch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PD0KjfXTC4
Averageman
08-21-22, 14:01
You mean Dodge says goodbye to the only things they're selling. What next, no more non-windup RAM trucks?
Exactly. BTW I was in a Dodge service truck for years, absolutely the worst interior in a US made auto.
Welcome to the new coke part 2.
What an idiot!
Won't someone think of the troops???
Seriously.
What will financially illiterate E-3's do now?
The_War_Wagon
08-21-22, 19:59
Fiat corporate probably snorted derisively - if our cars NEED to go 100mph, we'll throw them out of an airplane!
I'm looking at a 2018 or newer Hemi Challenger 6-spd (Scat Pack) because of the improved braking introduced that year, I ain't gettin' any younger, & I want some new muscle to tool around in - especially if I end up moving back south again!
The chargers and challengers are routinely stolen here in the Detroit area daily.
The thieves race them (read as drive it like you stole it) then leave them abandoned if they destroyed it or sell to a chop shop for a few coins.
It's been a problem here for several years now.
Nearly all Major US Corporations have fully drunk the woke Kool-aid. Part of that look-aid is the false economy of electric vehicles and the commensurate mismanagement of our energy policy.
A false economy on so many levels it’s truly unbelievable. Look at who controls the majority of the Rare earth minerals used in the battery powered vehicles. - How long do you think that lasts?
Most major US Car companies sell the few electrics that are purchased at a loss. - Tell me the future in that business plan and how long you think it to last……..
The shit is going g to get real, real soon.
Thank God. I’ve been waiting for the Charger to die so our agency would be forced to stop issuing them. I’ve give mine up for a Klondike bar.
Welcome to the new coke part 2.
What an idiot!
A~men to that! :)
Nearly all Major US Corporations have fully drunk the woke Kool-aid. Part of that look-aid is the false economy of electric vehicles and the commensurate mismanagement of our energy policy.
A false economy on so many levels it’s truly unbelievable. Look at who controls the majority of the Rare earth minerals used in the battery powered vehicles. - How long do you think that lasts?
Most major US Car companies sell the few electrics that are purchased at a loss. - Tell me the future in that business plan and how long you think it to last……..
The shit is going g to get real, real soon.
Quoted for wisdom, and for absolute truth.
Curious what they will build now. They didn't roll the profits from the musclecars into engineering anything else that is appealing. I guess they plan to limp along with Ram and Jeep.
Andy
Thank God. I’ve been waiting for the Charger to die so our agency would be forced to stop issuing them. I’ve give mine up for a Klondike bar.
Chrysler classic shit (worst of the big 3 auto) with crappy front ends. A retired PD LT here was telling us his department hated them because of the fragile front end suspension.
American Mediocrity!
Curious what they will build now. They didn't roll the profits from the musclecars into engineering anything else that is appealing. I guess they plan to limp along with Ram and Jeep.
Andy
Per the the above post about the corporate kool-aid party, Dodge has signaled their virtue with this:
https://techcrunch.com/2022/08/17/dodge-unveils-charger-ev-concept-that-is-faster-and-louder-than-a-hellcat/
For real guys, no one is dumb enough to kill their cash cow with out sourcing the soyboi alternative.
For the nostalgic folks, I guess they could always bring back the old Dodge Dart :D
Just like the COVID nonsense private corporations are going to lead the way rather than .gov. It was logical, given their goals, that you would not be able to find an internal combustion vehicle to purchase at some point. It is really headed that way faster than I would have imagined.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-22-22, 10:26
392 Rubicon may be in my future... That is what my son wants me to buy...
Local dealer had a 2022 for $10k over sticker...
Chrysler classic shit (worst of the big 3 auto) with crappy front ends. A retired PD LT here was telling us his department hated them because of the fragile front end suspension.
American Mediocrity!
Can’t take a curb with any motivation without working a crash on it. City fleet manager used to work at Dodge Corporate… so you know how that goes. I plead for a Ford and am told they aren’t outfitted to service them while *cough* half the city fleet are 150’s and Super Duties.
If this puts an end to the Charger for us, I’ll celebrate the moment!
Wow. Sound through an amplifier at the rear to create exhaust noise?
At least this electric fan car creates noise honestly...
https://electrek.co/2022/06/26/watch-electric-fan-car-record-goodwood-hill-climb/
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-22-22, 17:09
Wow. Sound through an amplifier at the rear to create exhaust noise?
At least this electric fan car creates noise honestly...
https://electrek.co/2022/06/26/watch-electric-fan-car-record-goodwood-hill-climb/
That race last less time than I do on my Birthday. Less than two minutes? What is the best an electric car has done at Pikes Peak? That thermal load for that long will turn a battery pack into a fusion reactor…
That race last less time than I do on my Birthday. Less than two minutes? What is the best an electric car has done at Pikes Peak? That thermal load for that long will turn a battery pack into a fusion reactor…
Goodwood is an annual vintage car event. Amazing rides going way back in automotive history. Watching a restored 1908 racer running a 12 cylinder aircraft engine is amazing thing. They hold other era vintage races as well. The above run was just an opportunity to show case.
VW's ID-R electric hot rod holds the current record all time speed record at Pikes Peak by about 16 seconds. Ran the hill in 7:57.148.
My comment wasn't that electric is better. The technology is only getting going. I just thought it was typical American automotive idiocy that Dodge felt the need to pipe in artificial noise.
Coal Dragger
08-23-22, 22:28
Dodge should just get strait to the point and offer a shit box called the Dodge Meth.
Most Dodge owners spend a lot of their paycheck on meth, so they might as well have a car named after it.
Offer an industry first 120 month finance term.
As always, the bummer to me is that we're not getting amazing plug-in hybrid versions. Electrifying a small turbocharged V8 version of that platform and being able to dual-power it to make silly numbers would be similarly rad; torque fill does an amazing job of enabling smaller turbocharged engines to hit the insane peak power figures while retaining efficient cruising off-boost, and let the buyer fill it with whatever the most reasonable energy source is (cheap electricity at night, gas at quick stops on road trips, some combination thereof if stopping to eat on a road trip or having to commute a longer way).
Considering how few things Dodge is selling that are really making them money, and how actually original they are, I think this is just them trying to find themselves the front of the line in the mass bankruptcy coming back to the US Auto Industry.
The only EV I'm remotely excited about is the Kia EV6, mostly because it's cheap, but also because it's RWD, and by virtue of selling some actual volume likely to be hackable on the electronics speed controller side of things so I can turn it into a drift car later, especially if the battery pack life eventually turns to crap (then, ironically, I'm recharging the stupid thing with a generator while changing tires on it... take that stupid hippies)
I picked up one of the “Last Call” combustion engine challengers. It’s hard to believe there won’t be any more of these.
https://i.ibb.co/NSCqwhJ/IMG-2708.jpg (https://ibb.co/cL39z5Z)
PatrioticDisorder
03-03-24, 08:10
392 Rubicon may be in my future... That is what my son wants me to buy...
Local dealer had a 2022 for $10k over sticker...
I have a 2023 and I love mine, but that dealer can kick rocks for 10k over sticker.
Averageman
03-03-24, 08:33
I'm of the "Super Car Era" and although I wasn't yet old enough to drive until the mid seventies, I can assure you, these old Dodges ruled the roost for a bit.
I have an abundance of Uncles and Cousins who were driving at the time, GTO's, Challengers, Superbirds, Corvette's.
It was a pretty cool time to turn 14.
I learned how to rebuild a carberator on a metal cookie tray on the kitchen table, changed oil, rotated tires, I could change plugs if I had something to stand on. I soaked in a lot of mechanical knowledge along the way.
Those cars were relatively simple raw horse power machines and never had a breaking system to keep up with their power. Actually kind of dangerous, but a hell of a lot of fun.
Man I'm getting old.
I have a 2023 and I love mine, but that dealer can kick rocks for 10k over sticker.
I traded a 392 XR Wrangler in on a Durango about a year ago and the dealer gave me crazy $ for it. I kept checking their website after I got the new vehicle and they were not able to sell that jeep for about eight months and ultimately sold it for less than they paid me. Definitely do not pay any sort of premium for one of those.
I am 100% sure Dodge will understand in about a year how bad they messed up and bring back the muscle cars.
Averageman
03-03-24, 10:02
I am 100% sure Dodge will understand in about a year how bad they messed up and bring back the muscle cars.
Dodge is very slow to pick up raw data and make changes to their fleet. In the late 70's I began to have to look at the frames of Dodges before puttin them up on a lift and they knew about that problem for a decade.
And all across the land, inner cities fell silent as bangers, dealers, and hood rats everywhere switched off their Glocks and poured out a 40 to mourn the loss of their signature whips.
There were no actual tears shed, however, as they had all been previously applied in ink.
Curious what they will build now.
Andy
The, I can't make up my mind if I'm a car or a CUV, Hornet.
I'll pass.
Stellantis isn't giving up on the I.C.E. The 2025 Ram 1/2 ton is coming out with the twin turbo, straight six hurricane engine. The base model will have 400hp and 450 lb•ft of torque, while the high output version will have 500+hp and 475 lb•ft of torque. Which is impressive. The negative is the price. The base model starts at $60k and the HO at $80k.
Stellantis isn't giving up on the I.C.E. The 2025 Ram 1/2 ton is coming out with the twin turbo, straight six hurricane engine. The base model will have 400hp and 450 lb•ft of torque, while the high output version will have 500+hp and 475 lb•ft of torque. Which is impressive. The negative is the price. The base model starts at $60k and the HO at $80k.
But not TRX impressive
Dodge should say goodbye to building any automobiles. So should Ford and GM. All pathetic, American Mediocrity junk.
Retro seems to be popular these days. Heck, bring back the AMC Gremlin :D
Adrenaline_6
03-04-24, 12:12
Retro seems to be popular these days. Heck, bring back the AMC Gremlin :D
Don't forget the Javelin and the Pacer.
Diamondback
03-04-24, 12:55
Don't forget the Javelin and the Pacer.
Bring back the Pinto, market it as an "economy shoebox" for Blue cities.
Coal Dragger
03-04-24, 14:39
I am 100% sure Dodge will understand in about a year how bad they messed up and bring back the muscle cars.
Automotive industry lead times are too long to just snap back to an older model or rolling out a new model. It could take them 5-6 years to introduce a new product, and that is a rush job.
Once the plants and tooling get changed over to whatever shitbox that Stellantis plans to produce there’s no going back.
I predict they’ll be tits up in the US inside of 5 years.
I just want a @3k lb RWD 2 door with a good manual trans, 300-350 hp, great engine sound, good, fun handling, good brakes, good audio system, and characteristics that allow it to be a daily commuter.
Coal Dragger
03-05-24, 15:10
Request denied.
Unless you have Porsche Cayman money lying around.
Request denied.
Unless you have Porsche Cayman money lying around.
Used, yea. Don't really want a new German-engineered car let alone a used one.
And the 4 cyl. doesn't sound good.
Adrenaline_6
03-06-24, 15:37
I just want a @3k lb RWD 2 door with a good manual trans, 300-350 hp, great engine sound, good, fun handling, good brakes, good audio system, and characteristics that allow it to be a daily commuter.
I think the closest you are going to get is a 2JZ Supra. With that, you can make the HP as mild or as wild as you want. It's up to you.
Averageman
03-06-24, 17:39
Automotive industry lead times are too long to just snap back to an older model or rolling out a new model. It could take them 5-6 years to introduce a new product, and that is a rush job.
Once the plants and tooling get changed over to whatever shitbox that Stellantis plans to produce there’s no going back.
I predict they’ll be tits up in the US inside of 5 years.
And in my observation Dodge is the slowest of all three to make changes.
You could live in Detroit and buy a Dodge and the body and frame would start rotting out in 2 years. Dodge knew it, it happened in theior own back yard.
It only took about 25 years to solve it.
I think the closest you are going to get is a 2JZ Supra. With that, you can make the HP as mild or as wild as you want. It's up to you.
I know what the BMW Z4/Toyota Supra is, don't know 2JZ.
It's very close, but German. Hard to get, but that isn't unusual for sporty cars today.
Coal Dragger
03-07-24, 08:57
The 2JZ is the last turbocharged Toyota produced inline 6 found in the last Toyota made Supra.
The current car being a re-skinned and re-badged BMW of course.
The 2JZ is the last turbocharged Toyota produced inline 6 found in the last Toyota made Supra.
The current car being a re-skinned and re-badged BMW of course.
2JZ's are pretty old for a DD, then, right?
And certainly have collector value.
I'm not satisfied with my Mustang. The Coyote 3 is great once spun up, but the suspension needs so much work to perform past 80% and then car won't ride well and will still weigh 3850 lbs, have too much rear overhang, etc.
I enjoy the responsiveness of a smaller car.
Mustangs: Put the brakes to WORK, 80% the turn but hit the apex, focus on setting up the track out, put the engine to work. Get on the throttle ASAP, do it all smoothly.
Got some esses or several quick turns? It's 3850 lbs, it's going to suck. Just relax and get through it like waiting at the dentist's office. This is what stinks the most!
Oh, sometimes getting through parking lots / parking stinks, too. Big-ass car.
The 2JZ is the last turbocharged Toyota produced inline 6 found in the last Toyota made Supra.
The current car being a re-skinned and re-badged BMW of course.
I looked it up.
Average sale price of a 2jz '98 Supra is $110k. :blink:
Coal Dragger
03-07-24, 16:31
Yeah it’s not DD material, and the nature of those engines is not “power everywhere” under the curve. More like a light switch, either on or off.
I hear you on hustling a heavier car, we have a 2015 Chevrolet SS. Four doors, RWD, 6.2L LS3, Brembos, mag ride. Makes a great cruiser, has plenty of grip, pretty balanced chassis but at the end of the day you can’t mask 3900+ lbs on a twisty road that is tight. It’s not a Miata and it will never be one.
Too bad Toyota won’t put the I3 turbo from the GR Corolla in the 86. It would fit your bill exactly.
Yeah it’s not DD material, and the nature of those engines is not “power everywhere” under the curve. More like a light switch, either on or off.
I hear you on hustling a heavier car, we have a 2015 Chevrolet SS. Four doors, RWD, 6.2L LS3, Brembos, mag ride. Makes a great cruiser, has plenty of grip, pretty balanced chassis but at the end of the day you can’t mask 3900+ lbs on a twisty road that is tight. It’s not a Miata and it will never be one.
Too bad Toyota won’t put the I3 turbo from the GR Corolla in the 86. It would fit your bill exactly.
I considered that myself. I'd prefer a TVS style blower for the torque, ease of tuning and installation.
But the GR86 has had oil issues resulting in engine failure. I've read of several attempts to remedy with redesigned oil pans and extra oil reservoirs and such. I'm not sure if any of these fully resolved the problem. (Pump not picking up oil in RH turns)
With a car that light I'd be happy with 300 hp / 250 lb ft if the engine & drive train could live with it.
Coal Dragger
03-08-24, 12:33
Well the I3 turbo mill from the GR Corolla is a different animal than the Subaru designed and produced H4 the car currently uses.
I’ve heard of guys getting the GR Corolla hot enough on track days the engine goes into de-rated power mode, or the center diff gets too hot and won’t send power to the rear. Well it’s a street car, not a track car…. so what were they expecting exactly?
fedupflyer
03-09-24, 14:07
Maybe this will put an end to the idiots that like to drive fast from stop light to stop light and call it racing.
It will sure help with the idiots that like to drive well like idiots.
I see way to many Dodge "muscle car" drivers that can drive fast in a straight line and that is about all they can do.
I see way to many Dodge "muscle car" drivers that can drive fast in a straight line and that is about all they can do.
They're too ****ing high on weed and meth to do anything but mash the pedal down...
Well the I3 turbo mill from the GR Corolla is a different animal than the Subaru designed and produced H4 the car currently uses.
I’ve heard of guys getting the GR Corolla hot enough on track days the engine goes into de-rated power mode, or the center diff gets too hot and won’t send power to the rear. Well it’s a street car, not a track car…. so what were they expecting exactly?
Definitely one of the main differences between a street car and track car. Running hard lap after lap.
But even proffesional drivers in top-tier competition don't go 100% for an entire race. Tires and sometimes brakes and fuel have to managed. It's part of what makes a good driver; doing as best as possible with the equipment and budget you've got. But that isn't as fun, is it?
I'm not satisfied with my Mustang. The Coyote 3 is great once spun up, but the suspension needs so much work to perform past 80% and then car won't ride well and will still weigh 3850 lbs, have too much rear overhang, etc.
I enjoy the responsiveness of a smaller car.
Mustangs: Put the brakes to WORK, 80% the turn but hit the apex, focus on setting up the track out, put the engine to work. Get on the throttle ASAP, do it all smoothly.
Got some esses or several quick turns? It's 3850 lbs, it's going to suck. Just relax and get through it like waiting at the dentist's office. This is what stinks the most!
Oh, sometimes getting through parking lots / parking stinks, too. Big-ass car.
It's a great DD but after watching this, I thought for a brief millisecond about tracking my TRX...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Twy131Qyyz4
It's a great DD but after watching this, I thought for a brief millisecond about tracking my TRX...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Twy131Qyyz4
That was amusing!
118 mph govenor was probably for the best
He smoked (literally) the brakes in roughly 8 heavy applications or a quarter of a lap.
But it was fun for awhile!
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