Geissele 16” CHF Barrel: A Quick Look [Archive]

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Molon

08-23-22, 08:38

Geissele 16” CHF Barrel: A Quick Look

https://i.ibb.co/2qJ7HZg/geissele-16-inch-chf-barrel-003-resized.jpg

Here’s a quick look at some of the specifications of Geissele’s 16” cold hammer forged barrel. The barrel has a taper profile similar to that of barrels from Black River Tactical and Hodge Defense. Geissele has returned to finishing their barrels with a phosphate finish, instead of a black oxide finish. The 16” Geissele barrel has a stripped weight of 1 pound, 12.0 ounces. This is the same weight as a stripped Colt 16” government profile barrel.

Colt 16” barrel
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/Colt_16_inch_government_profile_barrel_6-2358176.jpg

Geissele 16” barrel . . .
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/geissele_16_inch_chf_barrel_003_resizedb-2358230.jpg

Hodge Defense 14.5” barrel . . .
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/hodge_barrel_03_resized-2358114.jpg

Black River Tactical 14.5” barrel . . .
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/brt_optimum_barrel_002-2358115.jpg

This barrel has a 5.56mm chamber and the chamber and bore are chrome lined. The barrel has a 1:7” twist. A Colt reference bolt closed on a 1.4646” head-space gauge. The bolt did not close on a 1.4666” head-space gauge. Geissele’s website states that these barrels have been high pressure tested and magnetic particle inspected.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/geissel_barrel_stamp-2358169.jpg

The barrel extension has M4 feed-ramps and the extension is marked as such. Note the wick in the bore, ala how Colt barrels used to be shipped.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/geissel_feddramps__resized-2358107.jpg

The gas block journal has a diameter of 0.750”. The journal has a length of approximately 1”, so you won’t be able to use a traditional A-frame front sight base with this barrel. The gas block journal has a single dimple contralateral to the gas port.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/geissele_barrel_gas_block_dimple_001-2358109.jpg

This barrel has a mid-length gas system. The gas port has a gauged diameter of 0.062”. Yes, you read that correctly; 0.062”. For comparison, a Larue 16" mid-length barrel has a gas port diameter of 0.082".

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/geissele_gas_port_062_001-2358113.jpg

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/pin_gauge_in_gas_port_of_larue_barrel_00-2362875.jpg

The threaded portion of the barrel has a relief-cut at the bottom of the threads. A straightness gauge dropped cleanly through the bore and a muzzle device.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/geissele_barrel_threads_001-2358110.jpg

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/geissele_barrel_muzzle_device_001_resize-2358358.jpg

......

While conducting pre-assembly checks, I inserted one of my match-grade hand-loads into the chamber of the Geissele barrel. The cartridge did not fully seat in the chamber and the bolt would not close on the round. I then checked the match-grade hand-load in a SAAMI 223 Remington minimum spec LE Wilson cartridge gauge. The cartridge slipped easily into the gauge and fell freely from the gauge.

Next, I repeated all of the above steps using a round of factory-loaded M193. As before, the round did not fully seat in the chamber of the Geissele barrel and the bolt would not close. The factory-loaded round also slipped easily into the LE Wilson gauge and fell freely from it.

For the next step, I again placed the factory-loaded round in the chamber and forced the bolt into battery. I then removed the bolt (which had the extractor removed) and the factory-loaded round would not fall free from the chamber. I was unable to pull the round from the chamber with my fingers, so I tried mortaring the barrel, but the round still remained stuck in the chamber. I had to insert a cleaning from the muzzle end of the barrel and tap the rod to get the stuck round out of the chamber.

..........

Other reports of problems with Geissele barrels . . .

geissele super duty fails to eject, fails to lock bolt back (https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/geissele-quality-control-a-lack-thereof.7134569/post-10374591)

four geissele barrels fail to extract part 1 (https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Geissele-CHF-Barrel-Range-Report/12-774180/)

four geissele barrels fail to extract part 2 (https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/-/12-774180/?r=-1&page=1#i8459142)

Having to Mortar brand new 11.5 URGI part 1 (https://www.ar15.com/forums/Industry/Having-to-Mortar-brand-new-11-5-URGI/444-301864/)

having to mortar brand new 11.5" URGI part 2 (https://www.ar15.com/forums/Industry/Having-to-Mortar-brand-new-11-5-URGI/444-301864/?page=1#i4085812)

geissele 16" barrel short-stroking (https://www.ar15.com/forums/Industry/Set-up-for-16-SD-/444-302255/)

problem with yet another geissele 16" super duty (https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/geissele-quality-control-a-lack-thereof.7134569/post-10374872)

geissele super duty won't reliably chamber rounds (https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/Fixed-Amazing-results-Got-a-new-rifle-won-t-reliably-chamber-my-handloads-/42-536024/)

geissele barrel won't cycle reliably part 1 (https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/Geissele-16-CHF-Barrel-A-Quick-Look/12-772048/?page=2#i8432394)

geissele barrel won't cycle reliably part 2 (https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/Geissele-16-CHF-Barrel-A-Quick-Look/12-772048/?page=5#i8445934)

geissele 11.5" won't cycle reliably without a suppressor (https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/Geissele-16-CHF-Barrel-A-Quick-Look/12-772048/?page=4#i8439246)

geissele gas port size issue (https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/Geissele-16-CHF-Barrel-A-Quick-Look/12-772048/?page=4#i8440938)

...

czgunner

08-23-22, 08:56

Thanks again for another excellent write up. The specs look good on paper, but chamber issues are a problem.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

DoubleW

08-23-22, 09:52

It’s interesting that the Geissele stand alone barrels seem to have issues, but the complete rifles and uppers seem to be excellent for the most part. I have 3 Super Duty rifles (2 16” and 1 10.3”) and they’ve all been reliable and very soft shooting.

Wake27

08-23-22, 10:27

markm

08-23-22, 10:34

That port seems lean. Wow. .076" has always been sweet from BCM.

DoubleW

08-23-22, 10:34

Did you look at any of the posted links?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Yes. I’m well aware that some complete uppers/rifles have had issues. But I’m also pretty sure that the stand alone barrels have had more issues. I wonder if these barrels made with short chambers were done in the same batches. That still doesn’t explain away the QC that would catch such a mistake. Still, I’m completely satisfied with my 3 examples.

Hank6046

08-23-22, 10:58

Thanks so much for this, I have yet to have any issue with my new 14.5 complete upper, again only about 260-300rds down the barrel all of it a mix of cheap 55gr ammo.

Pappabear

08-23-22, 11:14

I honestly think I bought a unicorn. Mine shoots lights out and is gassed perfectly to run with or without a can. Fit and finish are great. But G has had problems and have not fixed it in some instances I know of personally.

It is dumbfounding how a mfg can make a perfect gun then a POS gun???? Very strange but I hope they figure it out. Too many reports of issues from a company that had a pretty damn good reputation before they started to build everything and putting it all together.

Their triggers, rails and mounts have been excellent, but this is a whole "nuther" world they entered. Maybe took on too much too quickly. Again I hope they figure it out.

PB

PB

1168

08-23-22, 11:45

Back to phosphate, eh? Didn’t they say they were doing black oxide because they had some super duper steel that couldn’t be phosphated?

My sampling of Geissele uppers has been fine (good, actually), but it seems they may have grown too fast.

Would a .062” middy cycle unsuppressed?

HKGuns

08-23-22, 11:54

Is that 16" Midlength even going to cycle with such a small gas port? Please add your measurements to my thread trying to document gas port sizes if you can find the time.

Gas Port Size Reference Thread (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?236901-Gas-port-size-reference-thread)

markm

08-23-22, 11:58

Is that 16" Midlength even going to cycle with such a small gas port?

So odd. I wouldn't imagine so. My 14.5 middy with .076 needs a reduced (H buffer) to be 100% reliable. Slightly shorter barrel, but still.

Clint

08-23-22, 12:06

Highly unlikely.

Is that 16" Midlength even going to cycle with such a small gas port?

Pappabear

08-23-22, 14:12

Mark, we need to try my gun again without a can and see if it runs. I thought it did but very soft, but maybe my memory fails me for the first time. LOL

PB

Hank6046

08-23-22, 14:47

I reached out to Geissele on this for a 14.5"

Hank6046

08-23-22, 15:29

Molon

08-23-22, 15:49

My response from Geissele below:

"Good Afternoon,

Thank you for reaching out to us and I do apologize, but unfortunately at this moment we do not have those gas port sizes for the stand alone barrels. I do apologize and I appreciate your understanding. Please let me know if you have any further questions.

Thank you,
Bret"

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/anim_lol-1959488.gif

Since February of this year geissele has been saying that they don't know what the size of the gas ports are on their own barrels, but, they'll have that info "up soon".

...

markm

08-23-22, 15:56

Mark, we need to try my gun again without a can and see if it runs. I thought it did but very soft, but maybe my memory fails me for the first time. LOL

PB

It shot great.

Pappabear

08-23-22, 17:28

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/anim_lol-1959488.gif

Since February of this year geissele has been saying that they don't know what the size of the gas ports are on their own barrels, but, they'll have that info "up soon".

...

How in the absolute fck does G offer that response? It's mind boggling.

PB

Molon

08-23-22, 18:14

How in the absolute fck do you offer that response? It's mind boggling.

PB

How in the absolute **** are you posting a comment on a subject that you're so ****ing clueless about?

3/8/2022 Geissele: "Edit below because I jumped the gun on the gas port sizes! Sorry for any confusion, we'll have those up correct soon!"

4/11/2022 "Any updates on availability and gas port size?"

4/12/2022 Geissele: "That said we should have more info to share soon"

5/6/2022 "any update on those specifications?"

8/23/2022 Geissele "but unfortunately at this moment we do not have those gas port sizes for the stand alone barrels"

....

Pappabear

08-23-22, 18:22

How in the absolute **** are you posting on a subject that you're so ****ing clueless about?

3/8/2022 Geissele: "Edit below because I jumped the gun on the gas port sizes! Sorry for any confusion, we'll have those up correct soon!"

4/11/2022 "Any updates on availability and gas port size?"

4/12/2022 Geissele: "That said we should have more info to share soon"

5/6/2022 "any update on those specifications?"

8/23/2022 Geissele "but unfortunately at this moment we do not have those gas port sizes for the stand alone barrels"

....

Big fella you misunderstood my post. I was trying to say, how does G offer that response, not you Molon. I don't think I'm clueless on this subject, I have read everything I could find on it with intrigue. I dont start such commentary to other posters, I just read and learn, not fight if I can help it. Sorry for the confusion.

Post edited.

PB

HKGuns

08-23-22, 19:21

Voodoochild

08-23-22, 19:23

Moon and pappabear go bang the erasers after you have written "I won't use swear words towards other members" 5K times.

Pappabear

08-23-22, 19:26

Gas ports aren’t real hard, I find it ridiculous they can’t or won’t specify sizes. Someone is drilling barrels all day and G isn’t a large company.

I knew what you meant when I read the original words PB. Regardless, it ain’t your style to get all confrontational and stuff.

HK, Gracias amigo. Yea every time the subject comes up it seems like a mystery. I remember when we were trying to figure DD 10.3 gas port size and the cluster fck that ensued if my memory serves me. And its such an important parameter you would think they would take advantage and use it as selling feature. And seems like some companies are changing their ports from time to time?

PB

Pappabear

08-23-22, 19:29

Moon and pappabear go bang the erasers after you have written "I won't use swear words towards other members" 5K times.

LOL, Its all good, shit happens when you are at your desk and doing five things and one is posting on m4.

PB

HKGuns

08-23-22, 19:44

Moon and pappabear go bang the erasers after you have written "I won't use swear words towards other members" 5K times.

Dang that sure brings back some memories! Those big rawhide erasers were the worst and choked me out every time.

Wake27

08-24-22, 03:20

Gas ports aren’t real hard, I find it ridiculous they can’t or won’t specify sizes. Someone is drilling barrels all day and G isn’t a large company.

I knew what you meant when I read the original words PB. Regardless, it ain’t your style to get all confrontational and stuff.

Bill has stated on TOS that they’d be introducing three lines of barrels from what I remember, basically with large, medium, and small gas ports. While I appreciate him trying to cater to everyone, I think that’s going to get real messy from a production perspective and be a disaster in the used market. I’m wondering if that’s adding to the issue.

And/or they’ve already experimented with different gas port sizes on production guns and can’t answer who has what gas port size already.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

TMS951

08-24-22, 08:20

Bill has stated on TOS that they’d be introducing three lines of barrels from what I remember, basically with large, medium, and small gas ports. While I appreciate him trying to cater to everyone, I think that’s going to get real messy from a production perspective and be a disaster in the used market. I’m wondering if that’s adding to the issue.

And/or they’ve already experimented with different gas port sizes on production guns and can’t answer who has what gas port size already.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I’d assume they don’t ‘know’ the port size because they released a bunch and have no idea what out there and what they will stick with.

I have a 14.5” SD and it worked great for me. I’d be interested in what ‘my’ port size is. I don’t plan to take it apart to measure though.

markm

08-24-22, 08:48

Bill has stated on TOS that they’d be introducing three lines of barrels from what I remember, basically with large, medium, and small gas ports. While I appreciate him trying to cater to everyone, I think that’s going to get real messy from a production perspective and be a disaster in the used market. I’m wondering if that’s adding to the issue.

Yep. Although I think it went OK for Sionics. They made it monumentally clear which port you were getting and what the expectations were. Sionics is a smaller company though... with a wide net you're bound to sell to some mongos for sure.

Pappabear

08-24-22, 10:49

If he labeled or laser engraved the port size on the barrel, that could be good. Even though it does leave room for mislabeling and or confusion.

And yes Sionics did it with success so ….

PB

scooter22

08-24-22, 17:39

Damn. I was just about to try their 11.5" stripped barrel...

titsonritz

08-26-22, 12:13

A mid-length gas system with a gas port diameter of 0.062” is insane, that is a carbine gas system gas port size.

markm

08-26-22, 13:04

A mid-length gas system with a gas port diameter of 0.062” is insane, that is a carbine gas system gas port size.

You'd need the back pressure of an AAC M4-2000 to get it to cycle.

Wake27

08-26-22, 17:14

Sionics did it but I don't know that it was entirely successful since they discontinued the RGP.

markm

08-26-22, 17:26

Sionics did it but I don't know that it was entirely successful since they discontinued the RGP.

They also discontinued FSBs on their barrels which sucks balls. I wonder if they quit the ERGP too.

titsonritz

08-26-22, 21:11

Sionics did it but I don't know that it was entirely successful since they discontinued the RGP.

They also discontinued FSBs on their barrels which sucks balls. I wonder if they quit the ERGP too.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I didn't think they did the RGP or ERGP in a 16" barrel, only the 11.5".

Back in 2017 I found a killer deal on a LW 16" FSB MOE upper complete with a Np3 BCG on an "open box sale" at Western Sport for $469.95. Oh yeah, got any more? Nope.

Wake27

08-26-22, 21:41

georgeib

08-26-22, 23:57

Sionics did it but I don't know that it was entirely successful since they discontinued the RGP.I have a pair of their 11.5 "standard" port barrels. They are 0.0625 ports. What it looks like is they actually discontinued their standard ports, and renamed their RGP barrels as "standard."

FWIW, both really nice shooting barrels that work fine suppressed, or not, with A5H2 buffers. I did end up with a BRT ̶0̶.̶0̶5̶2̶ 0.057 gas tube on the one wearing a direct threaded Turbo K. The gas tube noticeably softened the action, and noticeably reduced sound at the ear. Not to mention keeping everything a bit cleaner.

1168

08-27-22, 00:49

Couldn’t tell you but they have 11.5 ERGP’s available for purchase on the site now so my guess is they just dropped the RGP to consolidate. Three of the same barrels with different GP sizes is a lot.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Given all the reports that the RGP had a similar size gas port as a Mk18 or a Colt 11.5” and ran fine unsuppressed, I kinda wonder if they just adopted that as their regular 11.5” barrel and said “**** Tula”, or maybe split the difference with their regular barrel.

Wake27

08-27-22, 06:41

Seems logical and I wouldn’t blame them in the least. Geissele may want to consider the same thing once they fix their chamber issues.

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Hank6046

08-28-22, 21:51

So, interesting perspective on this. I talked to a friend and part time gunsmith who still works out of the Twin Cities, he says that Geissele uses a .075 port on a 14.5". He pointed me to the following Youtube video. I have no way of verifying this outside of the video and my friends opinion. I would say that this makes sense based off the performance of my barrel and how it feels when shooting on a H2 type buffer (ADM enhanced HD buffer),

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QrWYeOI-l8&t=760s

CRX85

08-30-22, 02:10

Hank6046

08-30-22, 07:43

For what it’s worth, that same guy has a video up claiming to show a 16inch mid length with a .061 gas port cycling with an H3 buffer….

https://youtu.be/HMrCIhFtylE

Thanks for this info.

Molon

10-10-22, 15:19

Bill has stated on TOS that they’d be introducing three lines of barrels from what I remember, basically with large, medium, and small gas ports.

That's not what geissele said.

"There will be barrels with the "optimum" gas ports available. Then there will be "Wolf grade" barrels that will work with all the out of spec bcgs and stuff"

...

Evan_O

10-11-22, 22:22

I have a pair of their 11.5 "standard" port barrels. They are 0.0625 ports. What it looks like is they actually discontinued their standard ports, and renamed their RGP barrels as "standard."

FWIW, both really nice shooting barrels that work fine suppressed, or not, with A5H2 buffers. I did end up with a BRT 0.052 gas tube on the one wearing a direct threaded Turbo K. The gas tube noticeably softened the action, and noticeably reduced sound at the ear. Not to mention keeping everything cleaner.

georgeib, are you sure it’s a BRT 0.052 gas tube? I have a Colt barrel cut down to 11.5 and I’m running a Saker 556 suppressor on it. Looking to make it a dedicated suppressed upper and thought about trying a BRT gas tube. The smallest I can find on their web page is 0.057

Clint

10-12-22, 04:47

Hi Evan,

It's most likely the 057 size and should work great with your Saker.

georgeib, are you sure it’s a BRT 0.052 gas tube? I have a Colt barrel cut down to 11.5 and I’m running a Saker 556 suppressor on it. Looking to make it a dedicated suppressed upper and thought about trying a BRT gas tube. The smallest I can find on their web page is 0.057

Evan_O

10-12-22, 11:19

Thanks for the response Clint. I’ll get an order placed. Also the BRT eztune for my carbine is working great! Smoothed it up and ejection is much more positive without being over gassed. Cheers!

georgeib

10-21-22, 10:23

georgeib, are you sure it’s a BRT 0.052 gas tube? I have a Colt barrel cut down to 11.5 and I’m running a Saker 556 suppressor on it. Looking to make it a dedicated suppressed upper and thought about trying a BRT gas tube. The smallest I can find on their web page is 0.057

Hi Evan,

It's most likely the 057 size and should work great with your Saker.

Hi Evan, Clint is correct. It is a 0.057. I actually had the handguard off installing a scout light mount last night and verified it. I edited my original post so as to avoid any future confusion.