Walther and HK…

[TheGhostRider]

So I don’t derail the HK thread.
I have HKs… I like the build quality, size and fit to my hand. The P2000 v3 9mm is great for carry size and comfort wise.
I don’t own and have never shot a Walther.
How does a PDP 9mm stack up against the P2000 9mm in quality, durability and accuracy?
And about those triggers… how do they compare?
Does the Walter have a 12 lb pull on it?

[JediGuy]

Does the Walter have a 12 lb pull on it?

I can answer that question: not by half

[Stopsign32v]

It's like comparing a 1986 Corvette to a 2021 Corvette. Some like the older and some like the newer. 10 times out of 10 the new one will kick the old one's ass though.

[SteyrAUG]

So I don’t derail the HK thread.
I have HKs… I like the build quality, size and fit to my hand. The P2000 v3 9mm is great for carry size and comfort wise.
I don’t own and have never shot a Walther.
How does a PDP 9mm stack up against the P2000 9mm in quality, durability and accuracy?
And about those triggers… how do they compare?
Does the Walter have a 12 lb pull on it?

Walther used to be on par with HK, now they are more like S&W. Not necessarily bad, but not what they used to be. Ironically the same can be said about S&W with some of their firearms.

No experience with the PDP personally, last Walther I had was the P99 and I sold it.

[rrich1]

I carry the pdp for work. Fantastic gun. Mine has a 5lb trigger pull on stick trigger. Short take up with a clean break. More than a 1.5k rounds through it since Jan with no issues.

Quality is very good. The slide seems to have a little more wobble than my MP 1.0 but it doesn't affect anything.

I'm contemplating getting the compact pro version as well. Comes with a ton of upgrades for not much more money.

The compacts take the old ppq mags. The full size take the new pdp magazines. The f series also takes the old ppq/pdp compact mags. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220905/a0a9e6ce21a2be8c39f423c2c29bdefa.jpg

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

[SteyrAUG]

It's like comparing a 1986 Corvette to a 2021 Corvette. Some like the older and some like the newer. 10 times out of 10 the new one will kick the old one's ass though.

It's a bit more like comparing a 67 corvette to a 2022 corvette. 67s still exist, well have to check back in 55 years to see how the 2022 corvettes held up. "Kicking ass" is a relative qualifier. If you mean built to last from high quality materials, not really. If you meant a turbo corvette made in the last 10 years is faster than a 1967 design? Duh...no kidding.

But this is also why we don't compare firearms to cars as a literal 1:1.

Walther is capable of producing high quality firearms, the WA 2000 was impressive. But the P99 isn't gonna compete with the Glock even though they or of the same generation more or less. The PDP seems designed to compete with S&W firearms and purchasers should have similar performance expectations.

Also if we go to HK, the "new" G36 turned out to be a plastic fantastic piece of crap, but a tweaked older AR design called the 416 clowned it. So it really isn't about old or new, lots of old designs are still running the show, some new firearms designs are game changers. Every designer, including HK and Colt has produced a dud from time to time. Absolutes are rarely absolute.

[TheGhostRider]

So… As a person who has spent a lifetime of being a mechanic/machinist/metal fab/design-engineering… I look at things with a different perspective. I pulled up my drawings of the HK P2000 9mm V3 and the Walther PDP 9mm. I can see the HK design influence on the exterior of the Walther. But the similarities stop when you crack open the drawings of each pistol. The HK “looks” more robust in key places. I like the firing pin contour on the HK better, the Walther appears to be more fragile. My concerns can be totally unfounded… of course time will tell. The extractors look good on both. The trigger design… no comparison. The Walther is very Glock like; cartridge style sear housing etc.
I dry fire my HKs… A LOT. I run a snap cap in them just because. A fellow instructor/armorer say’s I don’t need snap caps… I disagree. Anytime you have metal to metal impact something eventually has to give… But, I digress.
My interest boils down to function and reliability. My HK triggers suck. BUT… I like hammers… its very familiar and M9 like. I don’t expect the trigger to equal my finally tuned 1911. I don’t expect it to rival any of my box stock Glocks or my ragged old M9.
I keep hearing that the Walther trigger is the second coming of the Lord cause you when you shoot it you just repeat his name over and over… while smiling!
Where as the HK v3 trigger induces involuntary foul language that makes the devil tear up… and smile.

[HKGuns]

HK pistol triggers don’t suck, although that is a quite popular knock on them by gLoCk fanbois and people with little to no shooting experience.

Name one pistol, other than a 1911 with a trigger that doesn’t suck? They are pretty much all an acquired taste.

Pistol triggers generally all suck and require practice to master. Stick with your HK and practice. With enough practice you won’t notice the trigger.

I own numerous Walther and HK pistols and HK is the higher quality brand as stated above. The Walther you ask about is one I do not own.

If you really want a Walther, a model with a trigger that sucks less is the PPQ M1. I have no experience with the M2 and prefer the HK style mag release on the M1.

[Stopsign32v]

HK pistol triggers don’t suck, although that is a quite popular knock on them by gLoCk fanbois and people with little to no shooting experience.

Name one pistol, other than a 1911 with a trigger that doesn’t suck? They are pretty much all an acquired taste.

Pistol triggers generally all suck and require practice to master. Stick with your HK and practice. With enough practice you won’t notice the trigger.

I own numerous Walther and HK pistols and HK is the higher quality brand as stated above. The Walther you ask about is one I do not own.

If you really want a Walther, a model with a trigger that sucks less is the PPQ M1. I have no experience with the M2 and prefer the HK style mag release on the M1.

https://media4.giphy.com/media/oxOH2knjBSpIWEgiDm/giphy.gif


HK literally has one of the worst triggers both out of the box and modified out there. Here's a list of handguns I own or owned that are better than any HK trigger I've felt to date



-Walther PPQ with Apex trigger shoe

-Sig Sauer P220 with Gray Guns trigger job

-Sig Sauer German made P228 *factory*

-CZ P01 with full CGW trigger job

-CZ P10c with HB industries flat trigger

-Glock Gen 4 19 with my own trigger job

-S&W 629 Performance Center ported

-Ruger GP100 with my own trigger job

-Sig Sauer P320 with Armory Craft dual adjustable trigger and Gray Guns spring and sear kit

-Sig Sauer P365 with my own trigger job



And I'm sure I'm forgetting a few but this is off the top of my head. I'm a trigger snob and you are either in denial or delusional if you think handgun triggers can't be nice.

[TheGhostRider]

Never mind…
I should have known better than to ask such a question.

[HKGuns]

https://media4.giphy.com/media/oxOH2knjBSpIWEgiDm/giphy.gif


HK literally has one of the worst triggers both out of the box and modified out there. Here's a list of handguns I own or owned that are better than any HK trigger I've felt to date



-Walther PPQ with Apex trigger shoe

-Sig Sauer P220 with Gray Guns trigger job

-Sig Sauer German made P228 *factory*

-CZ P01 with full CGW trigger job

-CZ P10c with HB industries flat trigger

-Glock Gen 4 19 with my own trigger job

-S&W 629 Performance Center ported

-Ruger GP100 with my own trigger job

-Sig Sauer P320 with Armory Craft dual adjustable trigger and Gray Guns spring and sear kit

-Sig Sauer P365 with my own trigger job



And I'm sure I'm forgetting a few but this is off the top of my head. I'm a trigger snob and you are either in denial or delusional if you think handgun triggers can't be nice.

I own most of the pistols on your list and your trigger job don’t count.

Nice try.

[Stopsign32v]

So… Is there a pistol that is as durable, reliable… bulletproof as the HK out of the box that doesn’t have a crappy stock trigger? I hit what I’m aiming at with my HKs and I do it well… I do have to work extra hard to accomplish the task. I do NOT carry a pistol that has been modified in anyway… box stock period. Lawyers and such. I can hear it now… “ Your honor… he was packing a G26 with a bumpstock and a shoulder thingy that goes up with 1oz trigger and laser beam boolits “! OMG… the horror… to the gallows with thee!
Just curious to hear others perspective and points of view.

Also it can go both ways. A defense attorney could argue that you modify your firearm to increase the safety of others. I don't know of a Glock bumpstock or a shoulder thingy but can anyone come up with a trial to where a person rightfully defended themselves but were put in jail because the prosecutor said "AH! Look here...Mr Smith polished the tip of the 45* angle within his sear housing to make the trigger pull lighter! CLEARLY he is a person bent on murder!"

At the end of the day you are either right or wrong when you pull a firearm and use it. No light attachment, aftermarket sights, or a nifty bright blue trigger shoe will change that.

[Stopsign32v]

I own most of the pistols on your list and your trigger job don’t count.

Nice try.

Sure they do. On the flip side I have a USP in my hand right now with a HK match trigger kit installed and it's still WORSE than my out of the box stock 1995 Sig P228.

[rlewpolar]

MY HK USPs have always been a bit of a mystery to me. When dry firing, especially in DA mode, they feel rough, especially when new. And yet, I am supremely accurate with them. Even more so than my P series Sigs or Glocks which have far better feeling triggers. As many others have noted, USPs eventually do improve with dry or live-firing but even when rough and new, those triggers manage to allow me to hit very accurately where I’m aiming. And at the end of the day, isn’t that what it’s all about?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Stopsign32v]

All of my USP's are also very accurate. Above most pistols IMO

[m4brian]

Back to the OP - apples and oranges between the P2000 and the PDP. The PDPs I've seen have phenom triggers IF you like a VERY lightweight precocked SF gun.

DA/SA is a whole nutta ballgame.

I've found P2000s to be pretty decent out of the box.

HKs are bombproof and their mags are made better than all other firearms. I think they get a bad rap on triggers, but there are reasons. Again, I've been tempted to pick up the P2000 before and those I've handled had a consistent and smooth DA and a decently light SA with only a tad of creep.

I have worked on 2 P30s - Safety model. Getting them DECENT is easier than CZs. Can they GET to the point where they are as good as a Cajunized CZ? No way. BUT, with the change of two springs and a polish job, the DA is smooth and bears only a little stacking at the very rear which is easy to blow through in DA, and the SA has minimal creep and light break. They DO have a longer SA throw than a REGULAR P01, and similar to the Omega - maybe a tad more. Fore some people this is a deal.

In GENERAL - I have found in my limited experience that getting a P30 to have a smooth DA is easier to do than getting that in a CZ in general. The problem with CZs is the inconsistency. One CZ can have a nearly perfect pull OTB, and with swapping to CGW parts, (sometimes $300+) will be an AMAZING trigger - and you can do it yourself.

But, some CZs are MISERABLE. I've spent a ton of hours on a P01 Omega and FINALLY have it right now, and even with a few hundred in CGW parts still has a tiny bit of stacking at the rear before the DA break. Only through a ton of experimentation and polishing is it now silky smooth through the pull, and even the CGW hammer ($88) has a tiny creep before the SA break. As one smith at CGW says, some CZs you can never get completely right. Its the way it is.

I even have a 'regular' P01 with all CGW parts - it is a nice gun and the SA break is like a custom 1911. However, the DA still stacks a bit - but because the DA pull is short and sweet otherwise, you can hit with it. But most would not like the stacking. When I purchased the gun online it was ATROCIOUS - and many DA/SA CZs are. (The problem with CZs is that they are scarce and you almost need to buy online sight unseen. Advise - go to a big show and try it and pay more but know what you are getting).

Walthers. I've never picked up a PPQ that did not have a phenom trigger. I've also never had a Malf in a P99 - rock solid. I do not have experience with the PDP.

[SteyrAUG]

https://media4.giphy.com/media/oxOH2knjBSpIWEgiDm/giphy.gif


HK literally has one of the worst triggers both out of the box and modified out there. Here's a list of handguns I own or owned that are better than any HK trigger I've felt to date



-Walther PPQ with Apex trigger shoe

-Sig Sauer P220 with Gray Guns trigger job

-Sig Sauer German made P228 *factory*

-CZ P01 with full CGW trigger job

-CZ P10c with HB industries flat trigger

-Glock Gen 4 19 with my own trigger job

-S&W 629 Performance Center ported

-Ruger GP100 with my own trigger job

-Sig Sauer P320 with Armory Craft dual adjustable trigger and Gray Guns spring and sear kit

-Sig Sauer P365 with my own trigger job



And I'm sure I'm forgetting a few but this is off the top of my head. I'm a trigger snob and you are either in denial or delusional if you think handgun triggers can't be nice.

You are comparing custom triggers to HK stock triggers?? Several of the guns you listed, with STOCK triggers are atrocious.

[Stopsign32v]

You are comparing custom triggers to HK stock triggers?? Several of the guns you listed, with STOCK triggers are atrocious.

I'm comparing what I have and not just regurgitating what the internet says. Plus the only HK I have left has the "match trigger" so yes it is apples to apples compared to my custom trigger guns.

[pag23]

HK Lite LEM is your friend... all my HKs except one, not counting the striker fired ones (which feel.close to Lite LEM) are set up this way. Its a long take up but a quick reset.....

[TheGhostRider]

Back to the OP - apples and oranges between the P2000 and the PDP. The PDPs I've seen have phenom triggers IF you like a VERY lightweight precocked SF gun.

DA/SA is a whole nutta ballgame.

I've found P2000s to be pretty decent out of the box.

HKs are bombproof and their mags are made better than all other firearms. I think they get a bad rap on triggers, but there are reasons. Again, I've been tempted to pick up the P2000 before and those I've handled had a consistent and smooth DA and a decently light SA with only a tad of creep.

I have worked on 2 P30s - Safety model. Getting them DECENT is easier than CZs. Can they GET to the point where they are as good as a Cajunized CZ? No way. BUT, with the change of two springs and a polish job, the DA is smooth and bears only a little stacking at the very rear which is easy to blow through in DA, and the SA has minimal creep and light break. They DO have a longer SA throw than a REGULAR P01, and similar to the Omega - maybe a tad more. Fore some people this is a deal.

In GENERAL - I have found in my limited experience that getting a P30 to have a smooth DA is easier to do than getting that in a CZ in general. The problem with CZs is the inconsistency. One CZ can have a nearly perfect pull OTB, and with swapping to CGW parts, (sometimes $300+) will be an AMAZING trigger - and you can do it yourself.

But, some CZs are MISERABLE. I've spent a ton of hours on a P01 Omega and FINALLY have it right now, and even with a few hundred in CGW parts still has a tiny bit of stacking at the rear before the DA break. Only through a ton of experimentation and polishing is it now silky smooth through the pull, and even the CGW hammer ($88) has a tiny creep before the SA break. As one smith at CGW says, some CZs you can never get completely right. Its the way it is.

I even have a 'regular' P01 with all CGW parts - it is a nice gun and the SA break is like a custom 1911. However, the DA still stacks a bit - but because the DA pull is short and sweet otherwise, you can hit with it. But most would not like the stacking. When I purchased the gun online it was ATROCIOUS - and many DA/SA CZs are. (The problem with CZs is that they are scarce and you almost need to buy online sight unseen. Advise - go to a big show and try it and pay more but know what you are getting).

Walthers. I've never picked up a PPQ that did not have a phenom trigger. I've also never had a Malf in a P99 - rock solid. I do not have experience with the PDP.

Thank you for actually addressing my questions with logic and your experience.
I’m not dedicated to any brand. I am dedicated to the advancement and maintaining of my skills and don’t give a damn who’s name is on the slide/frame.
I don’t know what I don’t know and you have given me some things to ponder.
In the last four months I’ve expended close to 5k rounds of M882… I can hit what I need to hit with whatever I pick up.
The fact remains… some pistols are easier to hit with than others. My training will go on as it has for the last 40+ years.
Thanks again m4brian for your honest input.

[MUFC]

I prefer Walthers myself, although I do not own a PDP myself. But isn’t the VP9 the way to go here?

[SteyrAUG]

I'm comparing what I have and not just regurgitating what the internet says. Plus the only HK I have left has the "match trigger" so yes it is apples to apples compared to my custom trigger guns.

Then don't presume to talk about stock firearms vs stock firearms. You started your HK comment with "out of the box."

[63Qcode]

I have both the Walther PDP and the PPQ M1 . The trigger on the PDP is nicer than the PPQ .... slightly less travel , shorter reset and a slightly cleaner break than my M1 . Having said that , I let a friend shoot my M1 to compare it to his VP9 , he sold the VP9 and carried the PPQ M1 .
That said , in my limited experience , triggers are very subjective as to what feels good to one person and not the other . If I`m target shooting , I want very little creep , a light trigger and a clean break . If practicing combat shooting etc , the trigger feel doesn`t matter ( to me ) that much as I`m not trying for one ragged hole .
I tried his VP9 and shot it as well as my PPQ M1 , but hated their paddle release vs the Walther paddle release . Sure wish the PDP had a paddle mag release ... but that`s my personal preference .

[jesuvuah]

I own most of the pistols on your list and your trigger job don’t count.

Nice try.I can give my own account

DA/SA guns I have owned

Several p226 and p229, a few beretta 92s, a czp01 and p07, and 2 hk p30's

Out of all of those the hk had the worst stock triggers. I also had a p30 with a trigger job done by Robert Burke, it was much better, but still not on the same level as a sig with his trigger job, or a cgw cz, or an ltt beretta.

Do hk triggers suck? Not unless you compare them to the competition. My Friends usp expert is better then my p30, but it's still not on the same level as the competition. They are built like tanks though, and I can appreciate that, but the whole purpose for me of going to a hammer fired gun is to get a better trigger. If I want a crappy trigger, I will just carry one of my glocks.



Soli Deo Gloria

[Corse]

Back to the OP - apples and oranges between the P2000 and the PDP. The PDPs I've seen have phenom triggers IF you like a VERY lightweight precocked SF gun.

DA/SA is a whole nutta ballgame.

I've found P2000s to be pretty decent out of the box.

HKs are bombproof and their mags are made better than all other firearms. I think they get a bad rap on triggers, but there are reasons. Again, I've been tempted to pick up the P2000 before and those I've handled had a consistent and smooth DA and a decently light SA with only a tad of creep.

I have worked on 2 P30s - Safety model. Getting them DECENT is easier than CZs. Can they GET to the point where they are as good as a Cajunized CZ? No way. BUT, with the change of two springs and a polish job, the DA is smooth and bears only a little stacking at the very rear which is easy to blow through in DA, and the SA has minimal creep and light break. They DO have a longer SA throw than a REGULAR P01, and similar to the Omega - maybe a tad more. Fore some people this is a deal.

In GENERAL - I have found in my limited experience that getting a P30 to have a smooth DA is easier to do than getting that in a CZ in general. The problem with CZs is the inconsistency. One CZ can have a nearly perfect pull OTB, and with swapping to CGW parts, (sometimes $300+) will be an AMAZING trigger - and you can do it yourself.

But, some CZs are MISERABLE. I've spent a ton of hours on a P01 Omega and FINALLY have it right now, and even with a few hundred in CGW parts still has a tiny bit of stacking at the rear before the DA break. Only through a ton of experimentation and polishing is it now silky smooth through the pull, and even the CGW hammer ($88) has a tiny creep before the SA break. As one smith at CGW says, some CZs you can never get completely right. Its the way it is.

I even have a 'regular' P01 with all CGW parts - it is a nice gun and the SA break is like a custom 1911. However, the DA still stacks a bit - but because the DA pull is short and sweet otherwise, you can hit with it. But most would not like the stacking. When I purchased the gun online it was ATROCIOUS - and many DA/SA CZs are. (The problem with CZs is that they are scarce and you almost need to buy online sight unseen. Advise - go to a big show and try it and pay more but know what you are getting).

Walthers. I've never picked up a PPQ that did not have a phenom trigger. I've also never had a Malf in a P99 - rock solid. I do not have experience with the PDP.

Tell me more about the P30S trigger jobs.

[SteyrAUG]

I can give my own account

DA/SA guns I have owned

Several p226 and p229, a few beretta 92s, a czp01 and p07, and 2 hk p30's

Out of all of those the hk had the worst stock triggers. I also had a p30 with a trigger job done by Robert Burke, it was much better, but still not on the same level as a sig with his trigger job, or a cgw cz, or an ltt beretta.

Do hk triggers suck? Not unless you compare them to the competition. My Friends usp expert is better then my p30, but it's still not on the same level as the competition. They are built like tanks though, and I can appreciate that, but the whole purpose for me of going to a hammer fired gun is to get a better trigger. If I want a crappy trigger, I will just carry one of my glocks.



Soli Deo Gloria

Guns I have owned and shot for more than 20-30 years.

SIG P226, CZ75, Beretta 92FS, HK USP.

Hands down the P226 is the best trigger "for me" (and I say for me because this is opinion and it's subjective every time. If you are not used to stock triggers...you will SUCK with stock triggers...it's a YOU thing. Just like people who weren't raised on DA/SA triggers usually suck with them) And by 'YOU" I don't specifically mean the person I happened to quote.

The HK USP was next best for me, didn't seem to break as clean but still very nice.

The CZ and the Beretta are among the worst triggers of any handgun I actually own (not counting the VP70), lots of take up on the trigger pull and very far from a crisp and clean break. But somehow they both still perform well.

My P7 will clown them all, but P7s tend to be exceptions to the rules.

[HKGuns]

Guns I have owned and shot for more than 20-30 years.

SIG P226, CZ75, Beretta 92FS, HK USP.

Hands down the P226 is the best trigger "for me" (and I say for me because this is opinion and it's subjective every time. If you are not used to stock triggers...you will SUCK with stock triggers...it's a YOU thing. Just like people who weren't raised on DA/SA triggers usually suck with them) And by 'YOU" I don't specifically mean the person I happened to quote.

The HK USP was next best for me, didn't seem to break as clean but still very nice.

The CZ and the Beretta are among the worst triggers of any handgun I actually own (not counting the VP70), lots of take up on the trigger pull and very far from a crisp and clean break. But somehow they both still perform well.

My P7 will clown them all, but P7s tend to be exceptions to the rules.

Agree 100% on all counts.

[m4brian]

The CZ and the Beretta are among the worst triggers of any handgun I actually own (not counting the VP70), lots of take up on the trigger pull and very far from a crisp and clean break. But somehow they both still perform well.


While I own too many CZs, I would agree with much of this. It is amazing to me (even outside the P10 series) of the pass the CZ gets on triggers. Most I've bought I've had to do massive Cajunizing AND polishing - even messing with the trigger bar on the P series. YET - because of the ergonomics, they shoot well. In part this is the case, because the DA trigger throw is reasonable. They also point well and stay on target naturally despite the sucky pulls.

[Adrenaline_6]

Tell me more about the P30S trigger jobs.

Gray Guns and Lazy Wolf has them. You can buy the Short Reset Kit also from Gray Guns and install it yourself. I installed the kit on my P30S along with a 10Lb Wolf trigger spring and a light firing ping block spring. I have a few thousand rounds on it so, yes, the DA is still long, but it is smooth and the break is clean and the reset although still longer by todays standards, is a third shorter.

[Stopsign32v]

Then don't presume to talk about stock firearms vs stock firearms. You started your HK comment with "out of the box."

All of my firearms were stock at some point, including all of my HKs.

[Stopsign32v]

While I own too many CZs, I would agree with much of this. It is amazing to me (even outside the P10 series) of the pass the CZ gets on triggers. Most I've bought I've had to do massive Cajunizing AND polishing - even messing with the trigger bar on the P series. YET - because of the ergonomics, they shoot well. In part this is the case, because the DA trigger throw is reasonable. They also point well and stay on target naturally despite the sucky pulls.

Most people do not leave CZ triggers alone. And CZ has the best trigger system that can be improved upon. Also to my knowledge CZ is the only DA/SA trigger that shortens the DA pull distance significantly.

But I would have to disagree with you on the stock trigger pull. I even ruffled some Sig Legion feathers when I showed a stock CZ SP01 Tactical that had a better stock trigger pull than a P226 Legion.

[m4brian]

Want to see a decent stock trigger? SP 2022 - especially German ones. I've picked up MANY SP2022s and have NEVER seen one that did NOT have a silky smooth DA - some do stack at the rear a tad, but they are great other than that.

I've seen SP 01s that are very good, and others that are not. If you know how to polish, and don't mind CGW parts, they can be great - I do like them for the short DA throw. SIGS are a bit easier to work on especially over the SP01 Tactical or P01 - the decocker can be a mess. The Legion's I've seen needed to be pulled apart and polished - but a CZ cannot touch their reset.

[Stopsign32v]

Want to see a decent stock trigger? SP 2022 - especially German ones. I've picked up MANY SP2022s and have NEVER seen one that did NOT have a silky smooth DA - some do stack at the rear a tad, but they are great other than that.

I've seen SP 01s that are very good, and others that are not. If you know how to polish, and don't mind CGW parts, they can be great - I do like them for the short DA throw. SIGS are a bit easier to work on especially over the SP01 Tactical or P01 - the decocker can be a mess. The Legion's I've seen needed to be pulled apart and polished - but a CZ cannot touch their reset.

I always wanted the FDE SP2022. :( For no reason at all it's one that always managed to get away.

And this is no joke, I once sold a PCR in pieces because I couldn't get the decocker back together. I consider myself good with taking things apart and putting them back together. Worked on every gun I've ever had and have built engines from oil pan to intake manifold. But that PCR had me by the balls. I would think I had it together and I didn't. I walked away from it probably 3 times and then finally sold it. I'll never own another traditional decocker CZ.

[YVK]

Recent production P30 DA/SA triggers that I've tried, multiple examples, have been very good, especially SA part. I was so surprised, I thought they were out of spec or something. Almost bought one p30sk just because of that but I don't need the damn thing.
Recent production USPs still suck just as old ones have.

[m4brian]

I always wanted the FDE SP2022. :( For no reason at all it's one that always managed to get away.

And this is no joke, I once sold a PCR in pieces because I couldn't get the decocker back together. I consider myself good with taking things apart and putting them back together. Worked on every gun I've ever had and have built engines from oil pan to intake manifold. But that PCR had me by the balls. I would think I had it together and I didn't. I walked away from it probably 3 times and then finally sold it. I'll never own another traditional decocker CZ.

I'm with you brother!!! I do now own a P01 and can atest to the PITA it is to deal with. I'd rather mess with the safety on a PreB anyday. I will not likely do much dry fire on that gun just to avoid replacing the TRS due to the PITA decocker. It is doable, but can easily become non doable if your mouth is not in the right position while trying to get the slave pin and decocker back in. I wish more people on the CZ Forum would just admit this and get over it.

[sandsunsurf]

I am very impressed by the PDP. Not just the trigger, but the whole package. If I were new to the game I would consider buying three PDP f-series (2 x 3.5” bbl and 1 4.5”) and about 12 extra mags and calling it a day. It compares favorably to the HK VP9, imo, and I think they are both good choices.

Since I’m already in the Glock ecosystem with mags and holsters, I have to put a quick plug in for Shadow Systems because I own two. At the near-$1000 price point of HK and PDP, I think Shadow Systems are an excellent choice.

[Adrenaline_6]

I am very impressed by the PDP. Not just the trigger, but the whole package. If I were new to the game I would consider buying three PDP f-series (2 x 3.5” bbl and 1 4.5”) and about 12 extra mags and calling it a day. It compares favorably to the HK VP9, imo, and I think they are both good choices.

Since I’m already in the Glock ecosystem with mags and holsters, I have to put a quick plug in for Shadow Systems because I own two. At the near-$1000 price point of HK and PDP, I think Shadow Systems are an excellent choice.

Where are guys buying your stuff at? They are readily available sub $700, not even on an advertised sale. Wait til Black Friday comes. They should be cheap.

PDP-F Compact:
https://palmettostatearmory.com/walther-pdp-f-series-3-5-optics-ready-9mm-pistol-black-2849313.html

VP9SK OR:
https://palmettostatearmory.com/hk-vp9-9mm-17rd-optics-ready-pistol-black-81000483.html

[Pappabear]

Guns I have owned and shot for more than 20-30 years.

SIG P226, CZ75, Beretta 92FS, HK USP.

Hands down the P226 is the best trigger "for me" (and I say for me because this is opinion and it's subjective every time. If you are not used to stock triggers...you will SUCK with stock triggers...it's a YOU thing. Just like people who weren't raised on DA/SA triggers usually suck with them) And by 'YOU" I don't specifically mean the person I happened to quote.

My P7 will clown them all, but P7s tend to be exceptions to the rules.

My 226 trigger is the best DA/SA trigger I have ever felt as well. I have a 92 that I sent to Wilson to get all gussied up and that trigger is pretty good but still not my 226. I also think it has to do with the grip/frame fitting my hand like a glove helps in its "felt" trigger.

PB