View Full Version : In 2022 should you move on from Geissele triggers?
Stopsign32v
09-08-22, 08:52
I absolutely love my Geissele triggers and really everything Geissele. I'm a huge trigger snob, so today I'm at work sitting in my 2nd office watching YouTube and I watch a trigger comparison video with data and graphs. Well to my surprise my beloved Geissele triggers didn't come out on top and a lot of trigger companies I've never even heard of are leading it...
So, is Geissele old news and should I move onto dare I say, better triggers?!
davidjinks
09-08-22, 08:56
I absolutely love my Geissele triggers and really everything Geissele. I'm a huge trigger snob, so today I'm at work sitting in my 2nd office watching YouTube and I watch a trigger comparison video with data and graphs. Well to my surprise my beloved Geissele triggers didn't come out on top and a lot of trigger companies I've never even heard of are leading it...
So, is Geissele old news and should I move onto dare I say, better triggers?!
No.
However, it’s your money, do what you want.
I will only buy G triggers until they no longer exist.
bamashooter
09-08-22, 09:33
I absolutely love my Geissele triggers and really everything Geissele. I'm a huge trigger snob, so today I'm at work sitting in my 2nd office watching YouTube and I watch a trigger comparison video with data and graphs. Well to my surprise my beloved Geissele triggers didn't come out on top and a lot of trigger companies I've never even heard of are leading it...
So, is Geissele old news and should I move onto dare I say, better triggers?!
Move on for sure. You should always move on from anything "beloved" at the recommendation of a YT video. Reply sent from offices 1-9. In the end, just make sure the latest and greatest doesn't make you look fat.
Stopsign32v
09-08-22, 09:41
No.
However, it’s your money, do what you want.
I will only buy G triggers until they no longer exist.
I certainly don't want to move on from Geissele but if there are better triggers out there I'm not married to them either. I've been planning on trying out the SSP next.
There are some good options however, with regard to triggers, G is the gold standard. I have a Larue and a Centurion that both are good $100 triggers. So if you only have limited cash there are good options. But G owns this market space.
What companies did the you tube peeps tout?
PB
What were the criteria? I can't imaging any triggers outperforming G in durability and longevity.
Historically... making a fast trigger wasn't all that hard. But making one that didn't break or malfunction over time was the real trick.
What were the criteria? I can't imaging any triggers outperforming G in durability and longevity.
Historically... making a fast trigger wasn't all that hard. But making one that didn't break or malfunction over time was the real trick.
This. Do I want a trigger that's objectively 12% "better", or do I want a trigger that's as good as I can subjectively discern, that I know won't fail when I need it most?
By what standard were they judged? Pull weight? Looks? What makes Geissele so good is the build quality. Any ass hat can produce a trigger that looks and subjectively feels good, but I’m more concerned with safety, reliability and durability. But you do you.
Stopsign32v
09-08-22, 12:06
There are some good options however, with regard to triggers, G is the gold standard. I have a Larue and a Centurion that both are good $100 triggers. So if you only have limited cash there are good options. But G owns this market space.
What companies did the you tube peeps tout?
PB
The main ones that got better numbers than Geissele were
https://risearmament.com/product/rise-armament-ra-535-trigger/
and
https://triggertech.com/products/ar?variant=31600313368694
When I actually looked them up I saw they, like Geissele, were also $200+ triggers. I have a hard time putting $200 towards any trigger except a Geissele. But like I said, maybe I've been under a rock and there are better options.
What were the criteria? I can't imaging any triggers outperforming G in durability and longevity.
LaRue MBT is made from plate S7 tool steel. Geissele are cast, aren't they? Plate should have the edge all else being equal.
LaRue MBT is made from plate S7 tool steel. Geissele are cast, aren't they? Plate should have the edge all else being equal.
Not sure about the specifics on any of the triggers metal specs.
titsonritz
09-08-22, 13:27
The main ones that got better numbers than Geissele were
https://risearmament.com/product/rise-armament-ra-535-trigger/
and
https://triggertech.com/products/ar?variant=31600313368694
When I actually looked them up I saw they, like Geissele, were also $200+ triggers. I have a hard time putting $200 towards any trigger except a Geissele. But like I said, maybe I've been under a rock and there are better options.
Neither come close to the G-triggers in terms of proven combat reliability. Not all, but many I've seen, use cassette triggers because they are too lazy and/or too lame to install a standard style trigger. I'll stick with Geissele for my go to triggers, if I want to save some coin and still go with a quality 2 stage trigger it would be a Centurion AST, my budget build triggers are ALG ACT, BCM PNT or SIONICS EMST.
Stopsign32v
09-08-22, 13:43
Neither come close to the G-triggers in terms of proven combat reliability. Not all, but many I've seen, use cassette triggers because they are too lazy and/or too lame to install a standard style trigger. I'll stick with Geissele for my go to triggers, if I want to save some coin and still go with a quality 2 stage trigger it would be a Centurion AST, my budget build triggers are ALG ACT, BCM PNT or SIONICS EMST.
Yea I'll be sticking with Geissele too.
As far as the Centurion AST, why would you go with that over the ACT? https://algdefense.com/alg-combat-trigger-act.html
titsonritz
09-08-22, 13:52
Yea I'll be sticking with Geissele too.
As far as the Centurion AST, why would you go with that over the ACT? https://algdefense.com/alg-combat-trigger-act.html
They are two different triggers. The AST is a 2-stage about 85-90% of a Geissele, an ACT (and the other two I list above) are cleaned-up milspec single stage trigger with a fancy coating.
WillieThom
09-08-22, 13:58
Should I get a new trigger to replace my current trigger, which is the gold standard of triggers, because someone on YouTube said I should? And oh yeah! There were some graphs… and there was some data!
This is just wild to me…
Stopsign32v
09-08-22, 14:04
They are two different triggers. The AST is a 2-stage about 85-90% of a Geissele, an ACT (and the other two I list above) are cleaned-up milspec single stage trigger with a fancy coating.
Good to know! I didn't even know Centurion offered triggers to be honest. I'll pick one up right now to drop into my 5x 14.5 build. I need to order a barrel from them anyways.
Yea I'll be sticking with Geissele too.
As far as the Centurion AST, why would you go with that over the ACT? https://algdefense.com/alg-combat-trigger-act.html
The ACT is a Schmid single stage, I beleive the AST is a two-stage of Schmid origin.
As far as durabilty goes, G is not the only durable trigger out there. It has long been speculated that they get their castings from Schmid. I absolutely know that ALG (Geissele) do. There are several other Schmid two-stage triggers on the market, one of which I put over 10k rds on a year or two ago, largely in a PCC, and its still going. G might be the most proven two-stage final product, though.
I’m not aware of MBTs shitting the bed.
In trigger feel, the Triggertech (non-adjustable) is very, very nice. Much better than a SSA, or even SSA-E. I’d also prefer it over a S3G, or SSA-X. Think 1911. However, the way it retains its pins is not as confidence-inspiring as a SSA. Certainly good enough for home-D or match shooting, but I’d be concerned that they would walk in some other uses. That’s only speculation. I’ve got several thousand rounds on mine with no issues, including in a PCC.
Some cassette-style triggers have a more confidence-inspiring method of retaining pins. The Wilson Combat TTUs use a detent spring, more like “mil-spec” ones. I’ve got tens of thousands of rounds on mine, with one trip back to the factory, and a buddy has several thousand on his.
I know nothing about Rise.
I wouldn’t change out a G trigger that I like for any of these unless I was in a tinkering mood. Its a perfectly good trigger.
Its definitely nice to see new options in the gun market, especially for better prices. That being said, i don't think you should replace your Geissele at all. They just work and are very proven and reliable.
Now, i do run Larue MBTs, Timney, CMC, Rise, and other triggers as well, and have never had an issue with any of them. I'm especially impressed with the Larue MBT for the price, and i've heard nothing but good things about the Centurion triggers for the price. BUT, at the end of the day, my 3 main go-to rifles all have Geissele SSA-E triggers.
Good to know! I didn't even know Centurion offered triggers to be honest. I'll pick one up right now to drop into my 5x 14.5 build. I need to order a barrel from them anyways.
We're running one of the Centurion triggers every weekend now. It's doing great. The reset is a little lighter than I'm used to, but no issues with reliability. The ACT is really no better (or not noticeably better) than standard USGI... at least the one I have.
turnburglar
09-08-22, 15:53
Is the centurion trigger just another rebranded Schmid? My MSR10 came with a schmid from the factory and that has broken in to be a very nice precision trigger.
I personally own a G2S, Larue MBT2, and schmid; and I won't buy a trigger to necessarily replace any of them, but in the future the only trigger I will buy is the Larue. Its middle price and honestly the nicest if I'm doing a blind trigger comparison.
titsonritz
09-08-22, 15:54
The ACT is really no better (or not noticeably better) than standard USGI... at least the one I have.
The standard USGI trigger has a wide range of quality to them, they are all reliable but some "feel" much better than others and some down right suck, the ACT is always on the better end of that spectrum range.
Well to my surprise my beloved Geissele triggers didn't come out on top and a lot of trigger companies I've never even heard of are leading it...
That is called a clue, don't beleive everything you watch on communistTube. Triggers are like women, everyone has different tastes.
Knock yourself out, it is your money. I'll be keeping my G-Triggers.
The standard USGI trigger has a wide range of quality to them, they are all reliable but some "feel" much better than others and some down right suck, the ACT is always on the better end of that spectrum range.
No question about it. I run a bunch of GI triggers. We pulled out a DD trigger one time that felt like it had sand in it's creep. The grittiest trigger ever.
Straight Shooter
09-08-22, 16:57
The worst AR trigger I ever felt was on my LMT when I first bought it. I measured it once before I swapped it out and it bottomed out a 10lb gauge.
Had a hellava "catch" right after the initial take up.
Put a Velocity 4lb trigger in and its been 100% awesome ever since.
Ive not tried all the G triggers..and yeah, of course, they are nice. But, they aint the only game in town..and Ive owned two Velocity triggers now for awhile, one well over 10 years...and they, ESPECIALLY for the money...are really well built, very nice triggers.
Another surprisingly good trigger Ive had now awhile..is an EPT trigger on my experimental PSA carbine. Been a great shooting trigger.
We aint gotta spend $200-$300 for a nice trigger anymore....TOO many options out there now.
Hammer_Man
09-08-22, 21:22
What sells Geissele triggers to me is their track record of reliability. Yes they are expensive, but you can usually catch them on sale around Labor Day, Black Friday, and July 4th. The SSA-E is my go to trigger for all my guns. I’ve tried the SD-3G, SSP, and Larue MBT, but I keep circling back to the SSA-E. I think Bill has recently jumped the shark with the $325.00 “X” models, but as long as he keeps selling the regular SSA-E I’ll be happy.
The worst AR trigger I ever felt was on my LMT when I first bought it. I measured it once before I swapped it out and it bottomed out a 10lb gauge.
Had a hellava "catch" right after the initial take up.
I call those variable stage triggers. Very elite!
Straight Shooter
09-09-22, 09:03
I call those variable stage triggers. Very elite!
I called it something..not nice. Ive got that trigger somewhere, and have a 100 times meant to have someone look at it, just never have.
bamashooter
09-09-22, 09:19
What sells Geissele triggers to me is their track record of reliability. Yes they are expensive, but you can usually catch them on sale around Labor Day, Black Friday, and July 4th. The SSA-E is my go to trigger for all my guns. I’ve tried the SD-3G, SSP, and Larue MBT, but I keep circling back to the SSA-E. I think Bill has recently jumped the shark with the $325.00 “X” models, but as long as he keeps selling the regular SSA-E I’ll be happy.
I have multiple "E" models. I have several other higher-cost triggers which are very acceptable. After having some higher-end fire-control assemblies, I can easily stated almost all mil-specs compare very unfavorably; as well they should based on costs. I have one mil-spec which is factory yet has a spit over 4 lbs pull, smooth, and consistent. It's stored. Of all things, it came on my M&P 15-22 (installed Hiperfire/Hipertouch 24C). Go figure. Lastly, when in combat, short of reliability, all the "upgrades" are irrelevant as you are pulling that trigger like a pissed-off Silverback. At least that's my experience. The 24C registers at 1.5-1.8 with my 2 gauges. Serves nicely as a dedicated late-night armadillo engager.
There are more options for GTG AR-type triggers in recent years than ever before. That said, Geissele remains a (the?) leader and isn't going anywhere.
Defaultmp3
09-09-22, 15:30
That is called a clue, don't beleive everything you watch on communistTube. Triggers are like women, everyone has different tastes.Having of not heard of something doesn't necessarily mean anything, particularly for something as niche as AR triggers. Lots of people haven't heard of any of the Holy Trinity of Swiss Watches, but know Rolex, and possibly Omega and TAG Heuer, despite those three brands being considered far inferior to the Holy Trinity (AP, PP, and VC). In this case, TriggerTech has a stellar reputation for putting out triggers that are simply amazing when it comes to their trigger pull characteristics, and I can certainly see someone replacing their Geissele with a TT purely off of that, if long term durability and environmental/maintenance concerns are not an issue.
Rise I have also heard of, but have a much more negative view, due to some of the rumors and anecdotes I've heard about their triggers, but I wouldn't deny that by all accounts, their problem-free triggers also have excellent trigger pull characteristics.
Geissele triggers are simply a great combination of trigger pull characteristics and track record. This doesn't mean that there aren't better triggers out there for certain roles, nor does it mean that there aren't triggers that are actually even more durable. The fact that Geissele triggers are investment cast, yet MSRP for so much, is kinda obscene (also not very cool is how they consistently undercut their dealers with their sales). I say that as someone that personally use all Geisseles and have no plans to change from that.
(also not very cool is how they consistently undercut their dealers with their sales).
I did get several emails from dealers with sale prices on Geissele triggers over Labor day weekend. Not sure if G still undercut those prices, but there were sale prices for sure.
titsonritz
09-09-22, 20:22
I did get several emails from dealers with sale prices on Geissele triggers over Labor day weekend. Not sure if G still undercut those prices, but there were sale prices for sure.
Their good sales are 30% off, I remember paying $156 for few SSA triggers.
If the Trigger Tech trigger is anything like their bolt gun triggers, it's going to be an amazing trigger. But it won't have the reliability reputation that the Geisselle does.
Is the centurion trigger just another rebranded Schmid? My MSR10 came with a schmid from the factory and that has broken in to be a very nice precision trigger.
I personally own a G2S, Larue MBT2, and schmid; and I won't buy a trigger to necessarily replace any of them, but in the future the only trigger I will buy is the Larue. Its middle price and honestly the nicest if I'm doing a blind trigger comparison.
Schmid does make Centurion triggers.
In my limited experience, my Geisseles are great. When sitting at a bench shooting, I really appreciate them and probably own a couple dozen.
I ran a Centurion in a recent class and after a few drills, I really couldn't tell you the difference between a Geissele or Centurion in terms of my performance shooting. Once the drills heat up, any difference is pretty much out the window. Its up to you.
figure this would be the thread to ask.
is there a trigger that's better than the G HS-NM that has the curved trigger shoe?
The best factory bolt trigger I've ever personally owned / shot is Sako. Breaks like a piece of glass.
Five_Point_Five_Six
09-09-22, 22:41
The Centurion 2 stage triggers have become my favorite from a cost vs performance ratio, but honestly, the Schmid Tool 2 stage that's $30 cheaper feels identical to me. I'm not saying Centurion didn't spec theirs differently, I'm just saying the difference is not discernable to me.
Hammer_Man
09-10-22, 00:18
The Centurion 2 stage triggers have become my favorite from a cost vs performance ratio, but honestly, the Schmid Tool 2 stage that's $30 cheaper feels identical to me. I'm not saying Centurion didn't spec theirs differently, I'm just saying the difference is not discernable to me.
I’m pretty sure they’re the same trigger. I’m also pretty sure it’s the same two stage trigger as marketed by Sionics, and Aero Precision.
Leicafan1990
09-11-22, 19:41
The Wilson Combat ETU-M2 and Larue MBT-2S exist so the answer to this question is yes in my opinion.
I'm not moving on from Geissele, but Schmid / Centurion 1 and 2 stage triggers are a more economical choice for rifles that don't need a Geissele.
Tried to like the Larue MBT, but the Schmid / Centurion triggers kick it's a$$, as does Geissele.
I’m pretty sure they’re the same trigger. I’m also pretty sure it’s the same two stage trigger as marketed by Sionics, and Aero Precision.
Also the single stage PNTs, etc are Schmidt triggers. Aim Surplus has them, as well as Brownells, as Schmidt brand.
Side by side I can't tell the difference between the $30 Schmidt single stage from Brownells or the BCM PNT for $55.
I still prefer the SSA/SSA-E to the Schmidt 2-stage / Centurion branded triggers, but not by a bunch.
https://aimsurplus.com/products/schmid-inside-gun-nuts-fire-control-group-tf-2-stage-nickel-boron
Also the single stage PNTs, etc are Schmidt triggers. Aim Surplus has them, as well as Brownells, as Schmidt brand.
Side by side I can't tell the difference between the $30 Schmidt single stage from Brownells or the BCM PNT for $55.
I still prefer the SSA/SSA-E to the Schmidt 2-stage / Centurion branded triggers, but not by a bunch.
I have a BCM, a Brownells and I think 3 PSA polished and plated triggers. All are acceptable, one of the PSAs is very good but the BCM remains in my HD AR. It is on the heavy side and has a bit of a rolling break but I have a lot of confidence in BCM's QA.
I have two Larue 2 stage triggers and one G2S. I prefer the G trigger's reset but IMHO the Larues present a better price/performance point. I will pick up a Centurion 2 stage for a Centurion lower I am building.
I would say available triggers have improved significantly since Gieselle started, but that certainly doesn't mean the G triggers are obsolete or a second rate choice. Just pricy.
Andy
OutofBatt3ry
09-12-22, 00:29
MBT2 is always nice.
Also $99 currently. Not bad.
https://www.larue.com/products/larue-tactical-mbt-2s-trigger/
If I remember correctly, they were getting toward $200 not too long ago. If I was doing a build, I'd jump on that.
The Trouble With Triggers
When you discuss which trigger is "better" you are going to get a mix of subjective and objective opinions. Why? Because things like materials used, QC, track record etc can be objectively quantified. But how a trigger feels to any given person is very subjective. In short it can be the most reliable, best made trigger in the world but if it feels like crap to me then it's not the best.
I truly don't give a crap about AR triggers unless I'm trying to shoot a group on paper. I'm fine with GI style triggers all day long. Reliability is the top priority for me.
danieljmaunder
09-13-22, 17:24
One of the reasons I like geissele triggers is they continue to support large pin colt triggers. I have a colt lower with large 1.70 trigger pins and they still make triggers and parts for them. That in itself is a +1 for me.
I truly don't give a crap about AR triggers unless I'm trying to shoot a group on paper. I'm fine with GI style triggers all day long. Reliability is the top priority for me.
Thank You!!
I found an Imgur post (https://imgur.com/a/jlHFsXj) with data indicating that the LaRue MBT-2 is a more consistently built trigger than the Geissele SSA and SSA-E. Cast construction, poorer consistency, higher price; where's the appeal in G triggers?
LaRue VS Geissele. All triggers used the same lower. Each graph shows 12 triggers (10 for SSA-E) of the same model, they're overlayed to show consistency. All triggers were tested with the same TriggerScan in the same receiver.
https://i.imgur.com/PQgy8bM.png
https://i.imgur.com/hB7F40C.png
https://i.imgur.com/SLcjP5b.png
[/QUOTE]
Cast construction, poorer consistency, higher price; where's the appeal in G triggers?
It's a safe purchase if you just want to buy a trigger without having to worry about it working. (I don't have any Geissele triggers, but I shoot a lot of them in other guys' guns every weekend.) Geissele just has a way bigger reputation.
I have a few SSAs and a few Larue MBTs... Like them both
wetidlerjr
09-15-22, 05:47
...I will only buy G triggers until they no longer exist.
:cool::dance3:
I have a few Larue triggers. The pull is just as nice. I have also encountered an SME who insists G triggers are prone to doubling, but not the Larue.
Because the Larue trigger is cut from flat stock it has a flat face, not to be confused with a totally flat trigger which they also sell. I mean the traditionally curved trigger is flat across the face. I find this to be quite displeasing to the touch. It is simply a cost cutting measure, as it would require more matching to round it at all.
At the 89$ the large trigger can be had for it is hard to beat considering it is very tough.
Because the Larue trigger is cut from flat stock it has a flat face, not to be confused with a totally flat trigger which they also sell. I mean the traditionally curved trigger is flat across the face. I find this to be quite displeasing to the touch. It is simply a cost cutting measure, as it would require more matching to round it at all.
I didn't know that was the reason for the flat trigger, but that makes sense. It's a little noticeable, but not a deal breaker by any stretch. I still would NEVER give LaRue any money because he's mentally unstable and an ASS.
Because the Larue trigger is cut from flat stock it has a flat face, not to be confused with a totally flat trigger which they also sell. I mean the traditionally curved trigger is flat across the face. I find this to be quite displeasing to the touch. It is simply a cost cutting measure, as it would require more matching to round it at all.
I hadn't thought of that as a cost-cutting measure but I suppose you're right. I have the straight bow MBT and I like it but apparently they aren't as popular as LaRue does the big runs on the curved bow. Do you know why that is as flat triggers seem to be popular, or at least heavily marketed, for pistols?
The thread title is interesting, only because I never went there for a trigger. ;)
I have a few Larue triggers. The pull is just as nice. I have also encountered an SME who insists G triggers are prone to doubling, but not the Larue.
Because the Larue trigger is cut from flat stock it has a flat face, not to be confused with a totally flat trigger which they also sell. I mean the traditionally curved trigger is flat across the face. I find this to be quite displeasing to the touch. It is simply a cost cutting measure, as it would require more matching to round it at all.
At the 89$ the large trigger can be had for it is hard to beat considering it is very tough.
I honestly find the sharp angle irritating from a principal POV. Would it really have been expensive or time consuming to round the face of the trigger? Nope, so I guess Mark just left it because he can.
Andy
I honestly find the sharp angle irritating from a principal POV. Would it really have been expensive or time consuming to round the face of the trigger? Nope, so I guess Mark just left it because he can.
Top precision shooters reportedly prefer a trigger shoe with an abrupt edge. https://precisionrifleblog.com/2019/01/20/best-trigger/
https://2poqx8tjzgi65olp24je4x4n-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Rifle-Trigger.png
And because we all seem to be very picky people �� , TriggerTech offers the Diamond trigger with three options for the trigger shoe (shown below). The Pro Curved is probably the favorite among this crowd, although I love the Flat Straight trigger. This part really just comes down to personal preference.
https://2poqx8tjzgi65olp24je4x4n-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/TriggerTech-Diamond-Trigger-Options-645x271.jpg
The second most popular trigger has shoe options that are all sharp-edged.
http://2poqx8tjzgi65olp24je4x4n-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Bix-N-Andy-Trigger-Shoes.jpg
LaRue MBT is made from plate S7 tool steel. Geissele are cast, aren't they? Plate should have the edge all else being equal.
Manufacturing materials alone does not make a product superior. There is a great deal more that flows into the “which is best equation”. The “best trigger tests” are subjective and opinionated.
Manufacturing materials alone does not make a product superior. There is a great deal more that flows into the “which is best equation”.
Sure, which is why I wrote all else being equal. Nothing I have seen indicates that the G triggers are superior to the MBT. To the contrary the TriggerScan charts show a less consistent product.
Geissele is my go-to trigger. I have two Chip McCormick single stage ones but the G's are the mainstay. My preference is the straight trigger (i.e. Geissele SD-C) or the "semi-flat" ones with just a little curve to them. Have a USGI trigger in my A1 clone and will leave it that way.
Manufacturing materials alone does not make a product superior. There is a great deal more that flows into the “which is best equation”. The “best trigger tests” are subjective and opinionated.
Yeah, thats what we’re discussing. Materials alone don’t make the MBT any better or worse than the SSA.
We have to agree that “best” is subjective, or we’ll all fight about nothing. However, if we were to have a thread here about what, other than brand name, makes a trigger better or worse for a “combat trigger” (or whatever), and then attempt to turn those things into objective, measurable, things and then design a machine to reliably and repeatably measure them, we’d have the Triggerscan from the video posted. Neither subjective, nor opinion.
And if we measured those things, the SSA might not be in the top 3, maybe not the top 5. Maybe the SSA-E. And that’s fine, because it doesn’t matter. The SSA and its spin-offs are still perfectly good, and “better” would not likely have any practical benefit to the user.
If we try to add a reliability or longevity metric, we would find that Bill G doesn’t have a monopoly on that, either. In fact, we’d probably find that there is no engineering or QC reason that they would exceed the lifespan or reliability of a few specific ~$100 triggers, and a few in the SSA price category.
vicious_cb
09-17-22, 01:59
I didn't know that was the reason for the flat trigger, but that makes sense. It's a little noticeable, but not a deal breaker by any stretch. I still would NEVER give LaRue any money because he's mentally unstable and an ASS.
Pretty much this, I don't care if Mark Larue makes the best trigger in the world, the guy is a massive a$$hole. I'd pay double the price of a MBT to a competitor trigger if they were equal to avoid giving my money to that douche.
Pretty much this, I don't care if Mark Larue makes the best trigger in the world, the guy is a massive a$$hole. I'd pay double the price of a MBT to a competitor trigger if they were equal to avoid giving my money to that douche.
Happily we have the Schmid 2-stage triggers available from multiple sources including Forward Controls Design and Centurion for under $100. We are in a much better place than just a few years ago when it was basically Geissele, Rock River, or a questionable trigger job.
Andy
Most of my AR's have G-Triggers installed. Except for a few HK AR's that I left stock..........I even put them in my SCAR-17 and Tavor and they're required improvements to the massive suck those rifles are with their stock triggers.
The only other trigger I'll put in an AR, I've not tried them all, is the Sionics enhanced Mil-Spec trigger for $59.95. I ONLY buy my G-Triggers when on sale. I stock them deep when on sale and keep them in stock for builds.
- I don't care for the MBT-2S for a couple of reasons, primarily the flat, sharp profile feels strange
- I don't care for the ALG ACT after initially liking it, the break is too mushy for my taste
- I don't care for true Mil-Spec triggers as I find they creep and break too hard for precision shooting
But everyone has different tastes and use cases. I can absolutely see myself using a plain old milspec trigger for a class or event that involves fast, short range shooting. I have plenty of them in the form of take-offs when I added a G-Trigger.
I'm only now getting to where mine are even broken in...
I'm kinda at a phase of my life where the cost of a trigger is fairly trivial compared to how much ammo needs to go down the pipe for me to trust the gun... might as well slap in a GSSA/GSSA-E
Pretty much this, I don't care if Mark Larue makes the best trigger in the world, the guy is a massive a$$hole. I'd pay double the price of a MBT to a competitor trigger if they were equal to avoid giving my money to that douche.
I even bought Chinese LaRue Clips to avoid giving that turd money.
I don’t know. None of my G triggers are broke. Never used an MBT, probably never will. The Wilson Howe trigger just felt like another G trigger to me.
My only “recreational” AR I have right now is my HK and its stock trigger.
I don’t know. None of my G triggers are broke. Never used an MBT, probably never will. The Wilson Howe trigger just felt like another G trigger to me.
My only “recreational” AR I have right now is my HK and its stock trigger.
Gotta brag, don't ya? ;)
Long time no see.
I find it funny that people who hate Mark LaRue are also sporting G triggers, like Bill is a saint. LOL. BTW I own both triggers and think they are both assholes.
I find it funny that people who hate Mark LaRue are also sporting G triggers, like Bill is a saint. LOL. BTW I own both triggers and think they are both assholes.
If ever I need a quad rail from Hell, I will get a Larue. If I just want something a little slicker than a milspec trigger then I will get a Geissele.
But yeah both, as people, can sit and spin. I have a G rail that is supposed to bend but works okay.
It kinda disgusts me that rails and triggers have basically become Air Jordans for middle aged white guys
If ever I need a quad rail from Hell, I will get a Larue. If I just want something a little slicker than a milspec trigger then I will get a Geissele.
But yeah both, as people, can sit and spin. I have a G rail that is supposed to bend but works okay.
It kinda disgusts me that rails and triggers have basically become Air Jordans for middle aged white guys
Cross Machine Tool - CMT - makes some darn nice rails. Stickman turned me onto them when I was looking for a rail for my 13.7 build. And a nice family to do business with too. But yeah, I hear you on rails and triggers. In some circles they have become status symbols.
I absolutely love my Geissele triggers and really everything Geissele. I'm a huge trigger snob, so today I'm at work sitting in my 2nd office watching YouTube and I watch a trigger comparison video with data and graphs. Well to my surprise my beloved Geissele triggers didn't come out on top and a lot of trigger companies I've never even heard of are leading it...
So, is Geissele old news and should I move onto dare I say, better triggers?!
Why? To have the new hotness ? Be the cool guy at the range? You love your G triggers so they obviously do what you require out of them
Old post, but it illustrates why quality always costs a little more. Lots of takeaways in this post, and no, IMO the state of trigger technology hasn't advanced to the point of compelling me to steer away from Geissele triggers. That's like the guy that thinks the latest driver will get him another 50 yards off the tee. It's way more about the shooter; the trigger just happens to be as helpful as it can possibly be, in my (subjective) humble opinion.
PS: I'll take an aerospace alloy over tool steel any day. All tool steel does vs. advanced alloys is chew up tools at a faster rate. It might be harder, but it's not as wear-resistant. That might sound paradoxical, but a blade made of S35VN holds an edge a good bit longer than D2, or a comparable tool steel doing the same work.
Hi Gents,
First, let me in my first post here say thanks for all the positive comments about my triggers. It makes the effort to bring these to market worthwhile when I know that they are doing someone some good.
To follow up on tactical1's post the three parts of my trigger (trigger/hammer/disconnector) are precision investment cast. Here is how the manufacturing process works:
1. Raw castings have the gate ground off
2. Castings are machined on a Mazak or Bridgeport VMC
3. Castings are hand deburred and critical radii put in by hand
4. Castings are 'Superfinished' which is a process used on aircraft transmission gears to polish a metal surface without removing gross metal or heavily rounding corners.
5. Superfinished castings have threaded holes resized to precise dimensions to account for the prevailing torque screws
6. Sear surfaces on all three parts are cut via wire EDM to +/- 0.0005" tol
7. Components are hand deburred again
8. Components are carburized
9. Components are cryogenically treated (deep frozen to <-120F) for wear resistance and stability
10. Holes are honed to +/-.0002"
11. Parts are blued
12. Parts are assembled (adjustment screws installed and prevailing torque checked, hammer trunnion installed)
13. Parts are fit together in a precision jig that simulates a receiver under full spring pressure st that any minute imperfections in the sears can be felt by hand.
14. Sear engagement is preadjusted
15. Trigger timing is checked, reset is checked, safety operation is checked.
16. All three parts are searialized together
17. Triggers are coated with RustVeto preservative
18. I then hand completed Triggers to my wife Amy for wrapping in VCI paper
Why did I choose investment casting? A couple of reasons. MIM can produce closer tolerance parts but the parts are weaker and highly subject to process variables. Tooling cost is very high and min lots were 10,000 parts. I wish I could sell that many! Available materials are also very limited.
Forging can produce a good part but only the hammer and disconnector geometry can be forged, the trigger cannot. Forging also leaves a 'trim flash' and draft around the outside edges of the parts. Since the edges do work this flash would need to be removed (the front outside part of the magwell on a lot of AR lowers has this trim flash). A lot of additional machining would be needed.
Cutting from barstock would add 50% to the cost of the trigger. It will not necessarily make a 'better' part than casting as I have seen my share of defects in wrought material. On the other hand there are more material choices in barstock than MIM (forgings are also made from barstock so there are also more options for forging). This being said I do very limited amounts of barstock select fire triggers for customers in the US SOCOM community....not because they are better per se but they have requirements such that the fixed geometry of my investment castings would need to be changed. In the next 3-4 months you will see the semi-auto version of this trigger commercially available.
With investment castings tooling cost is reasonable, lots sizes are ok at 1000pcs and I can design in all the nice little rounds and features that would be big $$ to machine in. I also have unlimited design freedom for alloy choice. My foundry will make me a custom melt. They have bins of low carbon scrap, chromium, manganese, silicon, vanadium, tungsten, etc and they cook each melt individually. This has allowed me to use an semi-custom aerospace alloy from the 1960s that is no longer commercially available. With the advanced heat treating processes available today I felt it was the best choice to balance hardness, resistance to impact and wear. So far it has proven to be a good choice.
The 'sprues' that can be seen on the outside of the parts are ejector pin marks from the wax pattern that is made in the mold during the investment process.
As for castings being cheap, well....jet turbine blades are cast, medical implants are cast, missile components are cast....... We have all seen cheap castings that break so they get a bad rap. I have been in foundries that are downright scary and no way that you would want to put castings in your weapon from there. I have also been in steel mills that do predominately nuclear stainless plate (some of our wonderful barstock) that were worse. The foundry I use looks like an operating room, robotics all over the place along with dedicated foundry workers to give each part a human touch. The engineering staff are all shooters and they take a personal interest in my parts. If the castings they make were cheap and inferior I would not use them.
Well, I hope the above dissertation did not bore anyone. I would be glad to answer any other questions.
If you will be at Perry this year look me up at White Oak Precision.....I will be there with John Holliger helping shooters.
The Best,
Bill_Geissele
OutofBatt3ry
09-24-22, 19:16
Pretty much this, I don't care if Mark Larue makes the best trigger in the world, the guy is a massive a$$hole. I'd pay double the price of a MBT to a competitor trigger if they were equal to avoid giving my money to that douche.
So you're good with $6/gal gas because of mean tweets? lol. Cut off your nose to spite your face. Nice work. How was mark mean? For calling out idiots on ARF?
Mark made a trigger equal or better than G for a 1/4 the price. How's that bad?
ChattanoogaPhil
09-24-22, 19:20
2022? Been using Wilson Combat TTU since 2014. LaRue MBT for 2S.
PS: I'll take an aerospace alloy over tool steel any day. All tool steel does vs. advanced alloys is chew up tools at a faster rate.
Direct from the Geissele catalog (https://geissele.com/media/wysiwyg/Catalog/2019_Catalog-Final_spread_web.pdf):
GEISSELE TRIGGERS
PERFORMANCE ADVANTAGES FOR THE SHOOTER
Our triggers and hammers are made from quality S7 tool steel. The sear surfaces are precisely cut by a wire EDM machine.
ChattanoogaPhil
09-24-22, 21:37
Mark made a trigger equal or better than G for a 1/4 the price. How's that bad?
My thinking is buy the trigger ya really want regardless of price. Almost $300 for my TTU nearly a decade ago. It’s been used to send tens of thousands of rounds out the muzzle over the period. Price of the trigger is near nil in comparison to ammo. No sense sending so much money out the muzzle with a trigger that isn’t exactly what ya want.
It kinda disgusts me that rails and triggers have basically become Air Jordans for middle aged white guys Yeah, rails especially. People have gotten way to wrapped up in aesthetics and scarcity.
That's like the guy that thinks the latest driver will get him another 50 yards off the tee.
/thread.
Direct from the Geissele catalog (https://geissele.com/media/wysiwyg/Catalog/2019_Catalog-Final_spread_web.pdf):
yeah, first post was in 2007. you might want to allow for some technology development. it's been 15 yrs. not sure if wire EDM was cost effective back then, etc. maybe not. yeah, you're right. my bad.
My thinking is buy the trigger ya really want regardless of price. Almost $300 for my TTU nearly a decade ago. It’s been used to send tens of thousands of rounds out the muzzle over the period. Price of the trigger is near nil in comparison to ammo. No sense sending so much money out the muzzle with a trigger that isn’t exactly what ya want.
That's a much more elegant way of explaining what I was on about.
By the time you've reached a comfort level on a gun, you've ran at least the value of a trigger through it. No point not having the good one there from the start
As much as I'm trying not to be the guy that things the new hardware will make up for my (lack of) skill, this is an area where it's a touch silly not to start off with the better stuffs
vicious_cb
09-25-22, 12:30
So you're good with $6/gal gas because of mean tweets? lol. Cut off your nose to spite your face. Nice work. How was mark mean? For calling out idiots on ARF?
Mark made a trigger equal or better than G for a 1/4 the price. How's that bad?
Don't be retarded, why are you simping for Larue anyway? Maybe you arent important enough to be personally insulted my Mark Larue, the a$$hat even googled me for good measure for a more personal attack.
Part of me wants to redo that one Larue rail style M4 upper I had years ago just outta spite.
I like KAC rails but none of them are worth the upcharge. Not a single one
MarshallDodge
09-25-22, 15:27
15 years ago I was running tuned up milspec triggers and had a Rock River 2 Stage on a precision setup. Along came Larue with the MBT-2S and I bought one. My SR-15 has the factory KAC trigger. The precision AR now has an adjustable Geissele that is pretty light but I don't remember the model number.
I find the Larue MBT to be a high quality trigger for the price paid and would buy another.
Mark made a trigger equal or better than G for a 1/4 the price. How's that bad?
He your buddy? Lolz.
Five_Point_Five_Six
09-25-22, 16:37
He your buddy? Lolz.
I could kinda understand it if he was, but most dudes are simping hard for chubby old guys whom they've never met and don't know they even exist.
It's weird.
The SSA with the gold spring of the SD3 is unbeatable (adds 1lb of pull weight). So no, no other triggers out there compare to the same degree, and are as configurable.
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