View Full Version : Open Letter from former SECDEFs and CJCSs about military/civilian relationship
Bruce in WV
09-09-22, 04:57
This Politico article describes the writer's opinion of the 16 point open letter recently published by former SECDEFs and CJCSs describing the difficult relationship between the military and political leadership. I have to admit to being confused about what this really means: is it a CYA just in case Trump wins in 2024? Can some of you who are better versed in DC-speak translate for me, please?
The open letter: https://warontherocks.com/2022/09/to-support-and-defend-principles-of-civilian-control-and-best-practices-of-civil-military-relations/
The article: https://www.politico.com/news/2022/09/06/defense-leaders-civil-military-relations-adverse-political-climate-00054918
I think they are all worthless hacks, that are trying to stick it to President Trump.
The marxist are going to throw everything at Trump to keep him from being able to run.
I believe if they are not successful, they will in fact murder President Trump.
I think they are all worthless hacks, that are trying to stick it to President Trump.
The marxist are going to throw everything at Trump to keep him from being able to run.
I believe if they are not successful, they will in fact murder President Trump.
Honestly Trump shouldn't run. He didn't win re election and he is as polarizing for middle America as Hillary was in 2016. We need to run somebody who can win. Trump could have been one of the "great ones" but he couldn't stay off Twitter and failed to realize he needed to represent ALL Americans.
Christ even Bush 43 attempted to represent ALL Americans and he was kind of an idiot.
I am not sure Trump is going to run. But I am sure the more the Marxist mess with him, he will run. If they would leave him alone, then his ego would kick in and he wouldn't run on the possibility of a loss. For the biggest blow to the Trump ego after losing in 2020 would be a double loss in 2024.
If he runs, and he is the Republican candidate he gets my vote.
But I would rather it be DeSantis.
Diamondback
09-09-22, 08:08
Part of me thinks that's part of their strategy in goading him. They think they can beat him by hook or crook... or if need be resorting to what your Alphabet Soup friend fears.
Averageman
09-09-22, 08:19
The letter seems to be a note from Mom as to why they didn't show up when Biden stole the election. An excuse.
I'm pretty sure we need civilian control of the Military, I'm also pretty sure they should have stepped up and at least made a statement at the time.
If the Military dropped the ball, so did Law Enforcement, then so did our Legislative branch of Government.
We were at a cross roads and everyone fumbled.
SomeOtherGuy
09-09-22, 08:20
Honestly Trump shouldn't run.
Agree
He didn't win re election
Not convinced either way. There was way too much funny business going on in 2020, across dozens of states, for me to believe that the claimed "D" votes are in fact real people, who are citizens eligible to vote, casting ballots, one time only.
Not drinking the kool-aid with those who are certain Trump won either. I just see far too much shady business and doubt to treat Biden as a legitimate winner.
and he is as polarizing for middle America as Hillary was in 2016. We need to run somebody who can win. Trump could have been one of the "great ones" but he couldn't stay off Twitter and failed to realize he needed to represent ALL Americans.
Agree, and even more so, Trump failed to do a ton of things he should have done when Republicans had Congress in 2017-19.
If Trump can step aside I think Desantis would wipe the floor with Biden in 2024. Other candidates might also be able to win.
We're pretty much at the deck chairs on the Titanic stage, though.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-09-22, 08:20
I started reading it and it sounds like the old establishment BS that it is all Trump's fault.
The biggest lie about 1/6 is that the mob action was helping Trump. A mob action was never going to change the outcome- only through the Senate procedures could the outcome change. The riot stopped any chance of that happened and poisioned the atmosphere for any kind of challenge. The riot ENSURED that Trump wouldn't get to air his grievances an the left used it to bat to beat the GOP with. Qui Bono? The dems.
Revealed in a never-issued executive order last winter, Trump in December 2020 had also considered directing his Defense secretary to seize voting machines and appointing a special counsel to investigate the election.
Uhm, OK. So? They always tout the lack of evidence, but they looked harder at Kavanaugh than they did any conspiracy to tilt the election.
They specifically cited political polarization caused by the disruption of the peaceful transition of power after the 2020 election — when former President Donald Trump refused to concede his loss to President Joe Biden, and a mob of his supporters subsequently stormed the Capitol to stop certification of the election results.
That is very artful disinformation. Polarization was caused by the 2020 election? How about how the MSM/DNC/Elites have pounded the GOP since... Reagan? The 2020 election is a small link on that chain. And the mob stopped any organized and fact based look at the 2020 election. Imagine if the FBI instigators had failed and the demonstration stayed outside and the GOP House/Senate reps were able to lay out their argument, on live TV. That was the true danger to Biden, not a unarmed mob. (And don't get me started on them being armed- with DEADLY flag poles. I bring more bang-bang to a light range day than ended up at the capital that day.)
I'll throw in another, "if Trump is the nominee, I'll vote for him, but would rather it be DeSantis." As far as Trump losing in 2020, putting aside the massive cultural effort to defeat him with censorship, bad press, suppressing anything involved with Biden, Biden hiding from public view for the entirety of the campaign, states changing voting laws at the 11th hour without going through the proper legislation and all that, there is NO way that the lifeless corpse of a Biden got more votes than Obama had previously. And then seeing evidence like the "2000 mules" only further bolstered the fact that blanketing the country with easily grabbed ballots and unsecure ballot boxes made this the most unsecure election in our history. This claim is cemented by the fact that the Dems championed it immediately as "the most secure election in our history," thus we all have the knowledge that it was totally and completely unsecure.
Diamondback
09-09-22, 10:11
Agree, and even more so, Trump failed to do a ton of things he should have done when Republicans had Congress in 2017-19.
Not Trump's fault he was stuck with piss-sucking weasels unfit to serve as even Donor Organs in the legislative branch that would rather see an "outsider" lose a battle than the party win the country.
Averageman
09-09-22, 10:23
Not Trump's fault he was stuck with piss-sucking weasels unfit to serve as even Donor Organs in the legislative branch that would rather see an "outsider" lose a battle than the party win the country.
His own Party had no idea how to deal with him and pretty much tried to kick him to the curb early on.
This letter is a complete CYA moment for these guys not doing their jobs.
"Politically, military professionals confront an extremely adverse environment characterized by the divisiveness of affective polarization that culminated in the first election in over a century when the peaceful transfer of political power was disrupted and in doubt."
If these "wise" men actually think that the peaceful transfer of power was ever actually in doubt, I believe I have some ocean-front property in Oklahoma I would like to sell them. Whole thing sounds like more leftist crap and I'll concur with the "CYA" intent too. Don't they listen, Angry Joe clearly stated that one would need an F15 and nukes to overthrow the government...when he wasn't saying that people with AR-15s could overthrow the government.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-09-22, 14:44
https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nc/charlotte/news/2022/02/08/nc-man-accused-of-attacking-police-with-a-flag-pole-on-jan--6
https://youtu.be/UTduy7Qkvk8
Diamondback
09-09-22, 14:48
You know, Feudal Japan had a refreshingly direct way of handling such duplicitous, disloyal and utterly honorless underlings as these... let's just say there are a lot of Official DC People who should thank whatever deity they believe in that I will never get to be Shogun-for-a-Day.
None of the signatories were in government during the Trump/Biden Transition--Esper signed it and left a week after the election. I don't see this as being about Trump. I think you could even read as an indictment of people in uniform who purposely slow rolled political leaders they didn't like.
I see it a lot more about addressing the fact that military his changing significantly, and perhaps not for the best in the eyes of people in uniform...but if you're in the military you have an obligation to follow civilian policy even if you think its dumb. The challenges the Marines are facing with Force Design 2030 is a good example. And obviously the Afghan withdrawal. I think with the way the budget is going, there are going to be some very hard choices coming, and civilian leaders are probably going to accept a fair amount of risk with DoD programs in order to make the money work.
I'm a big fan of War on the Rocks and it remains a "serious" media outlet when a lot of stuff goes for click bait. Fundamentally, I think their intent is to publish an expert primer on some of the principles fundamental to democracy--there is absolutely nothing written in the article that should be controversial. If a reader wants to see controversy by reading it in context of their own beliefs, that's not a fair an objective reading.
You know, Feudal Japan had a refreshingly direct way of handling such duplicitous, disloyal and utterly honorless underlings as these... let's just say there are a lot of Official DC People who should thank whatever deity they believe in that I will never get to be Shogun-for-a-Day.
Crucifixion for the elf.
Diamondback
09-09-22, 17:41
Crucifixion for the elf.
What's wrong with ritual seppuku? Though hoisting the greenie druid-wannabes by their own Wicker Man petard has a certain appeal too...
Then again, we have to do something to keep Brother Firefly among us in spirit since he no longer posts for himself. :)
I would have been a bit happier with Pence/Trump with Pence putting Don in charge of the economic affairs and trade. He was amazing at economic health.
This letter is illustrative for the next GOP president. Whoever it may be, the inauguration theme should be blood red, because they're going to decapitate the politicized command ranks in the DoD and civilian federal services on Day One. As they damn well should!
Diamondback
09-15-22, 11:29
I would have been a bit happier with Pence/Trump with Pence putting Don in charge of the economic affairs and trade. He was amazing at economic health.
Except I don't see the RINOs letting Trump be anything more than a rodeo clown because his economic wins are their cronies, particularly Chicoms', losses.
Trump is polarizing, but may be the best chance we at actual change. Either he wins and lays waste, or they tip their hand fixing the election again. All the panty twisters who want someone more palatable and electable to run....you're just maintaining the status quo and kicking the can down the road another 4 years.
Diamondback
09-15-22, 12:14
Trump is polarizing, but may be the best chance we at actual change. Either he wins and lays waste, or they tip their hand fixing the election again. All the panty twisters who want someone more palatable and electable to run....you're just maintaining the status quo and kicking the can down the road another 4 years.
True, and therein lies the problem, too many grifters on both sides who've built very comfortable personal fiefdoms on Status Quo and would rather rule in hell than serve in heaven.
Honestly Trump shouldn't run. He didn't win re election and he is as polarizing for middle America as Hillary was in 2016. We need to run somebody who can win. Trump could have been one of the "great ones" but he couldn't stay off Twitter and failed to realize he needed to represent ALL Americans.
Christ even Bush 43 attempted to represent ALL Americans and he was kind of an idiot.
First part of that sentence: you know that is not entirely true, and if you don't you're drinking the MSM Kool-Aid about "The Big Lie" crap. Not winning and being cheated are two different things (I know you don't think it happened but I'll never be convinced otherwise).
Second part of the sentence: agree 100%.
What's wrong with ritual seppuku? Though hoisting the greenie druid-wannabes by their own Wicker Man petard has a certain appeal too...
Then again, we have to do something to keep Brother Firefly among us in spirit since he no longer posts for himself. :)
Fauci doesn't have enough honor to do it.
I would have been a bit happier with Pence/Trump with Pence putting Don in charge of the economic affairs and trade. He was amazing at economic health.
Pence would never get my vote. He did not impress me as VP/
Pence would never get my vote. He did not impress me as VP/
He's a friggin' RINO, right up there with McCain, Romney, Jeb Bush, Paul Ryan, etc.
Diamondback
09-16-22, 23:40
Fauci doesn't have enough honor to do it.
There is that. AH! Deport him back to Italy, via trebuchet! :)
Diamondback
09-16-22, 23:43
Pence would never get my vote. He did not impress me as VP/
Pence ceased to impress me when as IN-Gov he tried to resist RFRA and other conservative bills sent for signature. I saw trouble coming from him as soon as Trump nominated for Veep. Too bad Cruz was more needed in the Senate...
Honestly Trump shouldn't run. He didn't win re election and he is as polarizing for middle America as Hillary was in 2016. We need to run somebody who can win. Trump could have been one of the "great ones" but he couldn't stay off Twitter and failed to realize he needed to represent ALL Americans.
Christ even Bush 43 attempted to represent ALL Americans and he was kind of an idiot.
Amen brother!
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