View Full Version : Can you id this M-4 upper forge mark for me?
Hi,
I am in the process of building a MK12 Mod1 clone and purchased this used vintage upper from Gun Broker. I thoroughly checked it up close and feel it is authentic. I was told what date it is from but want to make sure it is not a reproduction. I found one just like it from this site, so I feel better, but the seller would not trade with me when I asked to swap with another of his auctions. This is my first post, so not sure if I'm posting in the correct forum, so forgive me if I'm not. Thanks!
Stopsign32v
09-16-22, 15:04
I could be wrong but I do not think that would be accurate for a MK12 Mod1 clone.
DuckDuckGo is your friend.
A (Splintered) = Anchor Harvey Aluminum
AF = Alcoa Forge
C AF = Colt Alco Forge
C MB = Colt / Mueller Brass
Cardinal (Stylized) = Cardinal Forge
CH = Colt Harvey Aluminum
Circle/Crosshairs w/ “AR” = ArmaLite
CK = Colt / Kaiser Aluminum
CM = Colt / Martin Marietta
D (Stylized) = Diemaco
DK = Diemaco / Kaiser Aluminum
E = Emco
EK = EMCO / Kaiser
E MB = EMCO / Mueller Brass
F Keyhole = FNMI / Cerro Forge
FA = FNMI / Anchor Harvey
FK = FNMI / Kaiser Aluminum
FM = FN/Martin Marietta
FMB = FNMI / Mueller Brass
Keyhole = Cerro Forge
L = Lewis Machine & Tool
LK = LAR / Kaiser Aluminum
LM = LAR / Martin Marietta
M (Under Diamond) = Mueller Industries
PA = Capco / Anchor Harvey
PM = Capco / Martin Marietta
Square = Brass Aluminum Forging Enterprises
I could be wrong but I do not think that would be accurate for a MK12 Mod1 clone.
The seller said that he personally removed the upper from a rifle with a date code of 2003, and the spec for the MK12 Mod 1 says ( [B]Colt AF or Keyhole, potentially others.. From: https://clonerifles.com/mk12mod1/). I figure that the 2003 upper puts it in the early years of the Mod 1 and looks a little different than everyone else's. If it's wrong, then I just need to be sure. But I know that this is not the forum to discuss it. I just was not too sure the authenticity of the upper. I did see one like it from this site, but the "C" looks a little weak, like the strike was light. I guess that could happen.
Hammer_Man
09-16-22, 17:57
The seller said that he personally removed the upper from a rifle with a date code of 2003, and the spec for the MK12 Mod 1 says ( [B]Colt AF or Keyhole, potentially others.. From: https://clonerifles.com/mk12mod1/). I figure that the 2003 upper puts it in the early years of the Mod 1 and looks a little different than everyone else's. If it's wrong, then I just need to be sure. But I know that this is not the forum to discuss it. I just was not too sure the authenticity of the upper. I did see one like it from this site, but the "C" looks a little weak, like the strike was light. I guess that could happen.
If I remember correctly, MK12 uppers were either Colt or Armalite depending on what they had available. Colt used and continues to use multiple suppliers for their forgings, so who knows how many different forge marks were used back then. Just build your rifle and enjoy it. Anybody who gives you grief over forge marks is a douchebag that you don’t need in your life anyway.
Stopsign32v
09-16-22, 18:31
C signifies Colt and in 2003 they were not using AH. It should be keyhole for a 2003 Colt. C should also be upraised within the forging. I think you have been had...If you look at your receiver the C has been stamped post anodizing.
This is a real Colt Anchor Harvey. Sorry OP
https://www.thoroughbredarmco.com/stores/2018/08/15/1/catalog/products/img/IMG_1376.jpg
C signifies Colt and in 2003 they were not using AH. It should be keyhole for a 2003 Colt. C should also be upraised within the forging. I think you have been had...If you look at your receiver the C has been stamped post anodizing.
This is a real Colt Anchor Harvey. Sorry OP
https://www.thoroughbredarmco.com/stores/2018/08/15/1/catalog/products/img/IMG_1376.jpg
Yeah. It is hard to see, but it is upraised, it's just that it is a light strike. The seller had another one with the same marking, but the "C" was just like yours. I took both photos of the listings and overlaid them in Photoshop. They are a 100% match. Also, I found another M4Carbine posters photo on this site with a complete rifle and this exact forging that also matched up 100% to mine. I'll have to upload it tomorrow as I have met my quota? for the day. I am so new to this, I guess I have to wait to re-send new photos. Also, I tested the forge marks with acetone and a Q-tip and a steel dental pick. It's aluminum raised and part of the upper. There is a lot of carbon soot inside, has M-4 feed ramps, passes the headspace gauges with my BCG and barrel and fits perfectly with my lower. Indirect evidence is in my favor, and he has been in business since 2011 and has over 20 pages of listings right now and 100% A+ feedback this year. Also, the white paint of the T-markings wipes off with a q-tip if you dig in the grooves of the numbers and there is visible white paint residue in the creases of the pic rail lugs. Not to bad mouth him, but I wanted to trade with another upper, but he ignored me and stated that he removed the upper himself and that the barrel had a 2003 stamp on it. I did see other vintage uppers with the same smeared paint residue on the upper rail across the numbers. Disintegrated maybe??? It's not the end of the world and I have learned something from it. I just hope it's real.... Thanks for your insight!!!
Also, you have a very nice upper!! Thanks for sharing!
If I remember correctly, MK12 uppers were either Colt or Armalite depending on what they had available. Colt used and continues to use multiple suppliers for their forgings, so who knows how many different forge marks were used back then. Just build your rifle and enjoy it. Anybody who gives you grief over forge marks is a douchebag that you don’t need in your life anyway.
Yeah, the Mark 0 uppers used Armalite, Diemaco?? Canada, Colt, . I have an older Armalite upper that the barrel is on right now with the "AR+" forging, but I think that would only work with the Mod 0. I have a complete PRI rifle in tan, which is sweet and I just found out that I think around 2007-2008 they actually started making complete rifles if not the Mod 0 uppers as an addon. I'm just learning this stuff.
C should also be upraised within the forging.
Colt has used stamped C "forge" marks . . .
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/Colt_upper_receiver_with__with_stamped_C-2529462.jpg
OP, your forge marks look just like one of my genuine Colt Anchor Harvey upper receivers (raised C), but mine is from circa 2009 . . .
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/colt_ac_upper_receiver_forge_mark_002_re-2529450.jpg
...
Colt has used stamped C forge marks . . .
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/Colt_upper_receiver_with__with_stamped_C-2529462.jpg
OP, your forge marks look just like one of my genuine Colt Anchor Harvey upper receivers (raised C), but mine is from circa 2009 . . .
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/colt_ac_upper_receiver_forge_mark_002_re-2529450.jpg
...
Thanks! I found 2 more like it. So, I took all 5 that I had, imported them into Photoshop and layered them all on top of each other. There were no deviations and 100% overlap. Even 2009 is ok as the MK12 Mod1 was still in use then. To Me, it has character. I have an old style Armalite upper with the AR+ forge that I'm going to use in my MK12 Mod 0 build, but that's another topic.... Thanks for the great pic!!!
One question..... Is it normal for the white T-marks to have paint that is not completely dry??? Almost like a gooey with an off-yellowish tinge on the surface and with white paint residue in the crease of the pic rail-lug interface???? It looks almost like someone re-painted the marks and tried to clean up the mess with some of the white smearing over the numbers??? The photo manager won't let me upload any more photos and won't let me delete the ones I have used so I can't show the T-marks. I'll have to learn how to work around the 2.00 MB max size.
Stopsign32v
09-17-22, 13:10
Colt has used stamped C "forge" marks . . .
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/Colt_upper_receiver_with__with_stamped_C-2529462.jpg
OP, your forge marks look just like one of my genuine Colt Anchor Harvey upper receivers (raised C), but mine is from circa 2009 . . .
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/colt_ac_upper_receiver_forge_mark_002_re-2529450.jpg
...
Not POST anodizing
Not POST anodizing
I have a few with no 'C' at all.
Colt has never been known to be 'consistent' with how they mark things for the most part.
The photo manager won't let me upload any more photos and won't let me delete the ones I have used so I can't show the T-marks. I'll have to learn how to work around the 2.00 MB max size.
imgur.com
screw the photo manager garbage here...
Stopsign32v
09-18-22, 10:30
I have a few with no 'C' at all.
Colt has never been known to be 'consistent' with how they mark things for the most part.
The stamping never was done by Colt though. I do not believe this upper to be legit, way too many red flags. OP how much did you pay for it?
The stamping never was done by Colt though. I do not believe this upper to be legit, way too many red flags. OP how much did you pay for it?
Molon just provided you a picture of a Colt 'C' stamping and you still insist they have never done that?
Is this 'C' stamping also not a 'legit' Colt?:
https://i.imgur.com/uLoHzAy.jpg
How about this one with no 'C' marking at all?:
https://i.imgur.com/g7pF3ct.jpg
The C in Colt does not stand for 'consistent'...
Stopsign32v
09-18-22, 12:26
Molon just provided you a picture of a Colt 'C' stamping and you still insist they have never done that?
Is this 'C' stamping also not a 'legit' Colt?:
https://i.imgur.com/uLoHzAy.jpg
How about this one with no 'C' marking at all?:
https://i.imgur.com/g7pF3ct.jpg
The C in Colt does not stand for 'consistent'...
Compare the C stamping to the OP's picture. Not only is it shallow but it was done POST anodizing. All of the Colt stamped receivers are PRE anodizing and done by the forging company, Colt does NOT stamp the upper receivers thus the "Colt = non consistent" doesn't apply here anyways.
C in the OP's photo is raised, not stamped, just like the 2nd photo in post #11 Compare both photos, marks are the same.
Compare the C stamping to the OP's picture. Not only is it shallow but ...
This looks done by hand and at an angle.
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/Colt_upper_receiver_with__with_stamped_C-2529462.jpg
Yup. That is possible.
Hammer_Man
09-19-22, 22:48
If there’s anything Colt is consistent at doing, it’s being inconsistent with their forge marks and suppliers.
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