So, who sabotaged the Nordstream pipeline?

[Averageman]

Intresting to me, all Russia has to do is turn a valve, so why would they blow it up?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hr6xaTftfmY&t=4s

[HKGuns]

-Trump-

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220928/1cf9aca278cd087c8e0d2b0f0e1c382b.jpg

[Averageman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZZVHDfo_Qk
So, if you can turn a valve and turn it off, what is the sense in blowing it up?

[P2Vaircrewman]

Not that we might see it but a visual inspection would tell if the explosion was external or internal. Pipelines use what is call a pig. It is used in cleaning, inspecting and separating products in the line. They are pushed by the product or inert gas such as nitrogen. A pig with explosives could be sent down the line and detonated by timer. The flow rate would determine where the pig is when it detonates. It would have to be inserted in the line after the last compressor station before going into the Baltic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigging

[davidjinks]

Intresting to me, all Russia has to do is turn a valve, so why would they blow it up?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hr6xaTftfmY&t=4s

It was the Russians. They’ll turn it around and blame NATO, we all get sucked in to (more than we already are) a possible WWIII and then we sacrifice more of our brothers, sisters, sons, daughters, friends to war that has nothing to do with our country.

[Harpoon]

Biden threatens to blow up the Nord Stream pipeline

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i4Is9C-HIw

[gsd2053]

Not that we might see it but a visual inspection would tell if the explosion was external or internal. Pipelines use what is call a pig. It is used in cleaning, inspecting and separating products in the line. They are pushed by the product or inert gas such as nitrogen. A pig with explosives could be sent down the line and detonated by timer. The flow rate would determine where the pig is when it detonates. It would have to be inserted in the line after the last compressor station before going into the Baltic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigging

I would be very surprised if it weren't external.

[davidjinks]

Biden threatens to blow up the Nord Stream pipeline

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i4Is9C-HIw

I saw the same thing circulating a couple days ago. Let’s be real here, Biden can’t even exit a stage without getting ****ing lost. You really thing he’s some kind of secret mastermind who’s plotting sensitive operations to mess with the Russians?

I have no problem eating crow if in fact Biden did this. But my statement still stands. All that’s happening is the kick off to WWIII and the loss of our fellow Americans.

[Diamondback]

Not that we might see it but a visual inspection would tell if the explosion was external or internal. Pipelines use what is call a pig. It is used in cleaning, inspecting and separating products in the line. They are pushed by the product or inert gas such as nitrogen. A pig with explosives could be sent down the line and detonated by timer. The flow rate would determine where the pig is when it detonates. It would have to be inserted in the line after the last compressor station before going into the Baltic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigging

IIRC there was a very good illustration of a "nonstandard-payload" pig in the movie The Living Daylights smuggling a (fake) Russian defector out.

[SomeOtherGuy]

Strong and detailed claims that Poland did it, with various other NATO countries (+ Sweden, NATO membership pending) tacitly approving.

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2022/09/the-bornholm-blow-up-repeats-the-bornholm-bash-poland-attacks-germany-and-blames-russia.html

[gsd2053]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZZVHDfo_Qk
So, if you can turn a valve and turn it off, what is the sense in blowing it up?

You are right. It makes no sense that the Russians blew up an extremely expensive newly constructed "Russian Controlled" Russian money making, Russian influence Controlling carrot stick over vast parts of Europe.

There is a reason Xiden threatened to "End It" if Russia invaded Ukraine. This hits Russia's future income and influence potential Big Time.

If Russia wanted to do this as a means to justify hitting EU or Western interests. He didn't need to burn up and destroy his much needed profits and major EU influence.

He already has it and has had it. The US and every opossing EU country has been involved in facilitating the continuation of the Ukraineian war by proxy. They have not only given intelligence and guidance, monetary support and major military hardware.

Russia does not want others becoming more involved. They do not want WW3. They want Ukraine and its resources. To strengthen their future control and influence in the region and world.

[Artos]

I think we need to follow the smell that is coming from the new baltic pipeline...first article I've seen since Tucker touched on it yesterday.


https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/09/coincidence/


Victoria Nuland: “If Russia invades Ukraine, one way or another, Nord Stream 2 will not move forward.”

https://twitter.com/StateDept/status/1486818088016355336



.

[TMS951]

Great place for China to come in and really ratchet up the shit show. India too, but I think they’d rather play nice.

China has the capability to do it clandestinely and would also benefit as it would not interfere with their gas purchase from Russia. If anything it would drive their price down.

China.

[tn1911]

You are right. It makes no sense that the Russians blew up an extremely expensive newly constructed

I does when you factor in pure Russian stupidity and incompetents.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

I saw the same thing circulating a couple days ago. Let’s be real here, Biden can’t even exit a stage without getting ****ing lost. You really thing he’s some kind of secret mastermind who’s plotting sensitive operations to mess with the Russians?

I have no problem eating crow if in fact Biden did this. But my statement still stands. All that’s happening is the kick off to WWIII and the loss of our fellow Americans.

Taking these quotes from Biden reminds me of how the press can twist a short statement by Trump that could maybe be interpreted to mean some thing, but really doesn’t mean what they think it says. Buijten was just roofing because gas sales are a major point of income for the Russians. Telling them that they could be turned off is just part of the whole sanctions culture. Are we supposed to think now that the same guy who can’t ride a bike or shake hands with imaginary people, or who is ignored on his own stage if Obama is in the room is some political and strategic mastermind ala von Clausewitz and has been planning this for months? Occam‘s razor that.

Polish GROM forces are supposed to be some wicked pipe-hitters. Maybe they actually hit a pipe this time. I would assume that they have a pretty good UDT program. This would be them giving the middle finger to Russia and Germany at the same time. Kind of freaking poetic if you ask me.

The Poles would love to pull a Cortez and sink the Germans path of escape from the war by “sinking“ the pipeline. No retreat.

[Todd.K]

You are right. It makes no sense that the Russians blew up an extremely expensive newly constructed "Russian Controlled" Russian money making, Russian influence Controlling carrot stick over vast parts of Europe.

I’m not saying it definitely is Russia, but I can come up with a couple of motives without any effort at all.

It was done for INTERNAL reasons. Mobilization (and the war) appears to be quite unpopular in Russia. This is the Lusitania or Pearl Harbor and proof that NATO is a threat, so also justification for starting the war.

As a wedge against sanctions. Winter gets bad, Europe has people freezing to death, Russia says “we would like to help but we can’t repair the pipelines without sanctioned parts and equipment.” Probably true, and gets them off the hook for the dead bodies.

[Allen]

Keep in mind that while idled on capacity (compared to NS1 and 2) Urengoy–Pomary–Uzhhorod pipeline is still there - just unhelpfully runs through Ukraine & requires russia to pay them for transit.
https://www.gem.wiki/Urengoy-Pomary-Uzhgorod_Gas_Pipeline

[ODgreenpizza]

Nordstream 2 was completed but never put in service, this is the one Biden "threatened" earlier this year.

Nordstream 1 began tapering off in Feb as delivery contracts were fulfilled until the russian operator declared Force Majeur and ceased all deliveries like 6 weeks ago.

It doesn't hurt them to sabotage a pipeline they are not currently benefitting from. They benefit from NATO and western allies getting spun up and pointing fingers at each other. They benefit by demonstrating to the west they can threaten international infrastructure and they did it without provoking NATO directly. They benefit most by having something concrete to hold up for domestic propaganda as a NATO/Western attack on russia.

[gsd2053]

Nordstream 2 was completed but never put in service, this is the one Biden "threatened" earlier this year.

Nordstream 1 began tapering off in Feb as delivery contracts were fulfilled until the russian operator declared Force Majeur and ceased all deliveries like 6 weeks ago.

It doesn't hurt them to sabotage a pipeline they are not currently benefitting from. They benefit from NATO and western allies getting spun up and pointing fingers at each other. They benefit by demonstrating to the west they can threaten international infrastructure and they did it without provoking NATO directly. They benefit most by having something concrete to hold up for domestic propaganda as a NATO/Western attack on russia.

It would not have any real impact to blame the US for doing it. Xiden already outright publicly threatened " There will be no Nord Stream 2, We will bring an end to it." It would vastly be viewed as a positive from the EU Nations. Radoslaw Sikorski, a European Parliament member and a former Polish foreign minister, has thanked the US for damaging the Nord Stream.

This would only give credibility that the US is willing to keep their word.

Also the Nordstream 1 was in use. Russia had cut back on its supply to encourage the EU countries to not support their opposition in the Ukraine conflict.

That infrastructure being functional. Benefited Russia's ability to withhold much needed gas resources from Europe. Now that it is out of commission Russia has lost a very big carrot on a stick.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Keep in mind that while idled on capacity (compared to NS1 and 2) Urengoy–Pomary–Uzhhorod pipeline is still there - just unhelpfully runs through Ukraine & requires russia to pay them for transit.
https://www.gem.wiki/Urengoy-Pomary-Uzhgorod_Gas_Pipeline

That is the craziest part of this whole war. And while the nuke plants seem to catch a shell every once in awhile, the gas infrastructure never seems to get molested...

[Coal Dragger]

I am pretty ambivalent on this one.

We’re not going to war in Ukraine against Russia over this. The Russians aren’t gonna do much about it given they’re getting their shit pushed in currently.

If the Poles did it solely as spiteful payback for events 83 years ago, knowing that both affected parties can’t do shit about it I say good for them. If any group of people outside European Jews have a righteous claim for revenge against Germans and Russians, the Poles sure as hell do.

As for the Germans and other Eurocucks in Western Europe: screw them. I sincerely hope their sanctimonious, pompous asses freeze to death in the dark this winter. This is a bed of their own making and it might be a very cold and very dark one. Good. Being stupid and chasing climate cultist goals should hurt. Choosing to be militarily weak and not taking their own defense seriously emboldened Putin, and they deserve to get kicked in the teeth. Not like we didn’t try to warn them.

If Biden did approve this I don’t care. Hell I’d give him credit if it meant the Eurocucks were beholden to us to buy compressed natural gas for the next decade. Bleed those turds dry of every last ounce of wealth and line the pockets of US citizens/business/government with the proceeds.

[gsd2053]

I'd like to see a pole added on this thread. Just to gage the room.

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

It seems that all the Russian-sympathizers will blame the west and the pro-western crowd will blame Russia. I don’t see why anyone would do it except maybe a nuclear power company lol. It is hard to completely discount Russian stupidity, but I have no real feel for who did this.

[HKGuns]

I'd like to see a pole added on this thread. Just to gage the room.

I’d like to see a pole dancer in this thread!

Does it really matter? One was shut down already and the other was never put into service.

As the Russian colluder would say, it’s a big nothing burger.

Although, XiDen will use it as an excuse for the recent spike in gas prices as the strategic reserve is depleted.

[Alpha-17]

Honestly, it could be anyone. Russia, the US, Poland, Ukraine, even Joeski Sixpackski with some dynamite who for whatever reason wanted the pipeline destroyed.


With that said, it is pretty odd how many people can't seem to differentiate Nord Stream 1 and 2. At best, it shows the hyper partisan nature of reporting, and at worst it shows a lack of understanding of the situation in general.

[chuckman]

Honestly, it could be anyone. Russia, the US, Poland, Ukraine, even Joeski Sixpackski with some dynamite who for whatever reason wanted the pipeline destroyed.

At 600 feet it's someone with means, so it has to be a nation-state.

There isn't going to be any proof. Conjecture all you (not 'you' Alpha, the royal 'you') want, it's just a thought exercise.

[SomeOtherGuy]

Nice archived news story from Fox News, this past January (1/27/22) where Nuland says the pipeline will be and remain a hunk of junk at the bottom of the ocean.

https://archive.ph/J4cjO

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

So is Biden an evil 5thlevel chess player, or is he bumbling idiot? i'm more confused than Biden seems to be a press briefing...

I don't see it at 600 feet. More likely less than half that? Deep, but not crazy deep.

[rocsteady]

I'm under the impression that it was not being used to actually move/sell the gas, that it's been shut down for a while. Report said it was only filled with methane in order to keep from collapsing under the weight of the seawater above it.

[gsd2053]

So is Biden an evil 5thlevel chess player, or is he bumbling idiot? i'm more confused than Biden seems to be a press briefing...

I don't see it at 600 feet. More likely less than half that? Deep, but not crazy deep.

I don't know how any of this would define bidens IQ. He said back in February that if Russia invaded Ukraine that the Nord Stream 2 pipeline would be no more. That we would end it.

Now if you have some mission impossible music playing in your head with him at a table plotting out the logistics of it all. That's not how this works. Thats not how any of this works. Ever. We have a military with military advisors. Teams of risk assessors. That do all the heavy work.

As for Xiden. Do you really think he calls the shots? LoL, he has trouble repeating what the voice in the earpiece tells him to say and do.

[Artos]

Nord Stream 1 was online & 2 was on stand by...Russia has stated they may not be repairable as the salt water will likely compromise the lines with corrosion.

I still say the connection is likely to do with the new baltic pipeline & the whole follow the $$$$ / which globalists benefit.


Here's an article telling us who the hell knows who did it:

https://www.jewishpolicycenter.org/2022/09/28/who-gains-most-from-nord-stream-sabotage/

[gsd2053]

Nord Stream 1 was online & 2 was on stand by...Russia has stated they may not be repairable as the salt water will likely compromise the lines with corrosion.

I still say the connection is likely to do with the new baltic pipeline & the whole follow the $$$$ / which globalists benefit.


Here's an article telling us who the hell knows who did it:

https://www.jewishpolicycenter.org/2022/09/28/who-gains-most-from-nord-stream-sabotage/

Agreed. Follow the Money.

[HKGuns]

Nord Stream 1 was online & 2 was on stand by...Russia has stated they may not be repairable as the salt water will likely compromise the lines with corrosion.

I still say the connection is likely to do with the new baltic pipeline & the whole follow the $$$$ / which globalists benefit.


Here's an article telling us who the hell knows who did it:

https://www.jewishpolicycenter.org/2022/09/28/who-gains-most-from-nord-stream-sabotage/


Words matter. It may have been "online" but it was shut down and not pumping any gas.

[Diamondback]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fd1bBh2WIAEjrvo?format=png&name=900x900

[Artos]

Words matter. It may have been "online" but it was shut down and not pumping any gas.


I'm not sure what your point is...Nord Stream concern has always been about this coming winter. The shutdown was political due to the war & while it caused a slow down it isn't currently catastrophic.

Now the new pipeline has a monopoly...gonna get interesting when the temps drop. I wouldn't be surprised if it too doesn't get whacked with today's clown world.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

I don't know how any of this would define bidens IQ. He said back in February that if Russia invaded Ukraine that the Nord Stream 2 pipeline would be no more. That we would end it.

.


So Biden has been planning to take out the pipelines since the start, when we all thought the war would be over in a few days. When we were worried about the Baltic states being done on rapid succession...

Biden says dumb crap all the time. He tried to talk to a dead lady yesterday. But he was tele graphing an attack 8 months before it happened..... right. What I get annoyed with is the hyperpartisan lens that some people use to evaluate everything. It leads to incredibly stupid things like the left trying to go criminally after Trump for his "Russia, if you're listening, we could use your copy of those emails from Hillary". This falls into the same category. You can interpret the words in a certain way, but its takes some mental games to think that is what was meant.




https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fd1bBh2WIAEjrvo?format=png&name=900x900

FINALLY! Someone gets it....

[Todd.K]

Agreed. Follow the Money.

Speaking of money.
People who claim only a nation could have pulled of the attack don’t understand what Soros, Gates, or Musk type money can buy. Many of those names are both very anti Russia and anti oil…

Any country that stands to gain from buying Russian oil while destabilizing the West has a lot of motive.

Poland is poised to gain, but the timing seems to have been calculated to make them a prime suspect.

Russia may retaliate against the new pipeline, leaving Europe to choose between forcing Ukraine to end the war at a loss or freeze.

This is a fascinating subject, if one is willing to get out of the simple politics box.

[Harpoon]

The only people stupid enough to have publicly threatened the end the pipeline, were Biden and the US State Dept.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Speaking of money.
People who claim only a nation could have pulled of the attack don’t understand what Soros, Gates, or Musk type money can buy. Many of those names are both very anti Russia and anti oil…

Any country that stands to gain from buying Russian oil while destabilizing the West has a lot of motive.

Poland is poised to gain, but the timing seems to have been calculated to make them a prime suspect.

Russia may retaliate against the new pipeline, leaving Europe to choose between forcing Ukraine to end the war at a loss or freeze.

This is a fascinating subject, if one is willing to get out of the simple politics box.

How? The pipelines that they would deliver the needed gas are busted? If they take out the Norwegian line, how does that force the EU to give up on Ukraine? Actually Ukraine has a whip hand for the Russian gas coming across their territory. Taking out the Norwegian line just makes the EU situation more dire, with no upside for anyone. Nihilist? Yes. Makes it more likely since the Russians are a zero-sum, screw everyone, kind of mentality.


The only people stupid enough to have publicly threatened the end the pipeline, were Biden and the US State Dept.

So Biden is the weak president that won’t stand up to 7th Century Losers in A-Stan, he stumbles over words all the times, but here he telegraphed a act of war 8 months before it happened. Of course he meant blow it up, he didn’t mean all the different ways that they could sanction and go after the finances and operation of the pipeline. Sure, Biden nixed the idea of selling surplus Soviet jets to Ukraine as being too aggressive, but he’ll blow up a pipe-line. Sure, that all makes sense. BUT HE DID IT FOR UKRAINIAN CASH… except most of the ‘aid’ is in the form of weapons, not cash money.

Maybe we did it, I kind of doubt it. If I were Poland, I would have done it. But taking a bumbling statement by Biden from months ago and all of a sudden make that the Dark Lord telegraphing strategic moves- that’s hyper-partisan stupidity. Come up with better evidence than that…

[Harpoon]

Former Director of the CIA Brennan says Russia is the most likely suspect.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2022/09/28/former-cia-director-brennan-russia-ukraine-pipeline-intv-newday-vpx.cnn

[Artos]

Swedes found another Leak:

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2022/09/29/swedes-report-new-fourth-leak-in-nord-stream-pipeline-sabotage/

[Todd.K]

How? The pipelines that they would deliver the needed gas are busted? If they take out the Norwegian line, how does that force the EU to give up on Ukraine?

Because it would leave the pipelines through Ukraine as the EU’s only option. Europe will have make Ukraine give up territory if they want those pipelines opened up.


Gazprom Threatens To Cut Off Remaining Gas Supplies to Europe Via Ukraine
https://www.newsweek.com/gazprom-threatens-cut-remaining-gas-supplies-europe-ukraine-1746991

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Because it would leave the pipelines through Ukraine as the EU’s only option. Europe will have make Ukraine give up territory if they want those pipelines opened up.


Gazprom Threatens To Cut Off Remaining Gas Supplies to Europe Via Ukraine
https://www.newsweek.com/gazprom-threatens-cut-remaining-gas-supplies-europe-ukraine-1746991

And the Ukrainians could just pop a hole in the pipe anytime they want to stop gas flows also…. So support Ukraine or the pipelines get interrupted. Hell, just take out the boosting stations power or people to slow down the gas flow.

We may have done it, we may have stood by while the Poles did it, we maybe even help the Ukrainians do it. My main point was is that this comment by Biden is about the laziest and stupidest piece of evidence used to say that we did it.

The Russians had nothing to lose and nothing to gain. We didn’t really have anything to gain and a lot to lose. That sounds more likely to be Russians than us. It’s too reckless for us to do it.

As to fixing the line, I would assume that they have piggable stopper that they could use to isolate the breaks. I can’t believe that they design these pipelines that if they get a hole you throw the whole thing around. I think the water there is under 100m from the look of the depth charts.

Wish my grandfather were still around. He was a life-long pipe guy. I sat through a lot of discussions about pipe-line management when I was a kid. Even saved paper towel and toilet paper cores to make my own pipeline. Terrestrial stuff, not ocean though.

[utahjeepr]

Both N1 and N2 were full of gas and under pressure but neither were transmitting (flowing) gas. That nixes the pig theory. It takes flow to launch a pig.

I've seen 80-110 meters deep so 260-360 feet. Doable by divers (well trained ones) but that would have required a ship or sub in support. The only ships I've heard of in the vicinity of the "leaks" were Russian a few days prior. Whole lot of monitoring and tracking going on in that body of water. That makes using divers pretty risky. You'd almost certainly get caught. Same goes for most ROVs cause most are tethered.

My guess would be underwater drone. Remotely possible is a small, quiet submersible for diver delivery.

I doubt it was the US. Too much risk of it blowing back if you got pinched and very little, if any, gain for America. Poopypants doesn't strike me as much of a risk taker. We are selling the EU as much LNG as we can ship already so it ain't even a win for "Big Gas".

My guess is it was either the Russians or a euro state. I don't see an obvious reason for the Russians to do it since they control the flow already, but who knows. Norway to cement a monopoly? Kinda doubt it. It will be interesting to see who did it on the off chance we actually find out.

[SteyrAUG]

From the same people who built Chernobyl, let's not rule out product failure.

[Todd.K]

And the Ukrainians could just pop a hole in the pipe anytime they want to stop gas flows also.

Wedge between EU and Ukraine. Ukraine can’t continue fighting long without aid.


The other thing I just thought about is that we probably will never know. Who would everyone trust to investigate? Who’s “evidence” should anyone trust?

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

From the same people who built Chernobyl, let's not rule out product failure.

One is chance, twice is enemy action, three explosions are Russian quality control.....

[chuckman]

Both N1 and N2 were full of gas and under pressure but neither were transmitting (flowing) gas. That nixes the pig theory. It takes flow to launch a pig.

I've seen 80-110 meters deep so 260-360 feet. Doable by divers (well trained ones) but that would have required a ship or sub in support. The only ships I've heard of in the vicinity of the "leaks" were Russian a few days prior. Whole lot of monitoring and tracking going on in that body of water. That makes using divers pretty risky. You'd almost certainly get caught. Same goes for most ROVs cause most are tethered.

My guess would be underwater drone. Remotely possible is a small, quiet submersible for diver delivery.

I doubt it was the US. Too much risk of it blowing back if you got pinched and very little, if any, gain for America. Poopypants doesn't strike me as much of a risk taker. We are selling the EU as much LNG as we can ship already so it ain't even a win for "Big Gas".

My guess is it was either the Russians or a euro state. I don't see an obvious reason for the Russians to do it since they control the flow already, but who knows. Norway to cement a monopoly? Kinda doubt it. It will be interesting to see who did it on the off chance we actually find out.

I doubt it was divers; they'd need surface support and a chamber onboard. Most likely sub or UW drone.

[P2Vaircrewman]

I doubt it was divers; they'd need surface support and a chamber onboard. Most likely sub or UW drone.

Recreational divers do 100 -200 meter dives daily on mixed gas rebreathers. A boat is only need for transportation and not even a big one.

[mack7.62]

US subs can launch and recover divers why couldn't Russian?

[utahjeepr]

Recreational divers do 100 -200 meter dives daily on mixed gas rebreathers. A boat is only need for transportation and not even a big one.

It can be and is done but not by your average "recreational diver". A rare few rec divers get the advanced training to go that deep. It ain't just grabbing a tank and reg and heading for the bottom. You don't need a chamber to do 100M, but the decompression stops are hours. 30 min or so bottom time at 100M is an all day affair. 200M is doable as well, just takes longer to get back up. Swimming with Trimix ain't what anyone refers to as 'recreational diving". Most are pros. Some advanced technical sport divers exist, but they are rare. Most of what rec divers are interested in is in the top 100ft. Other than wrecks, the undersea world gets bleaker and less interesting the deeper you go.

[mack7.62]

Divers might not even be needed, who knows maybe there are submarine launched remotes which could deliver a package. But if divers were used it could have been done weeks or months ago.

You guys remember the USS Halibut? A US spy sub that was used to tap Soviet undersea comm cables between Kamchatka Peninsula naval base and the naval base at Vladivostok. You think the Russians might have something like this?

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/how-us-navy-submarine-secretly-tapped-russias-undersea-cables-190478

[Disciple]

You guys remember the USS Halibut?

Coincidentally I just finished reading Blind Man's Bluff.

[HKGuns]

It can be and is done but not by your average "recreational diver". A rare few rec divers get the advanced training to go that deep. It ain't just grabbing a tank and reg and heading for the bottom. You don't need a chamber to do 100M, but the decompression stops are hours. 30 min or so bottom time at 100M is an all day affair. 200M is doable as well, just takes longer to get back up. Swimming with Trimix ain't what anyone refers to as 'recreational diving". Most are pros. Some advanced technical sport divers exist, but they are rare. Most of what rec divers are interested in is in the top 100ft. Other than wrecks, the undersea world gets bleaker and less interesting the deeper you go.

Correct. I’m a REC diver and the deepest I’ve been is 100’ in cold water in a dry suit. (I get cold in 80 degree pools, this water was 42 degrees at depth.)

This would have taken a technical setup and rebreather.

Would have been far easier for a sub to drop a mine and detonate.

[Averageman]

Could you drop a mine from a boat?

[utahjeepr]

Correct. I’m a REC diver and the deepest I’ve been is 100’ in cold water in a dry suit. (I get cold in 80 degree pools, this water was 42 degrees at depth.)

This would have taken a technical setup and rebreather.

Would have been far easier for a sub to drop a mine and detonate.

As you and Chuckman have said, divers aren't really needed for this. There are simpler options.

It is also quite possible that the charges were placed well ahead of time. A simple low freak reciever for a trigger is all it would take

ETA: HK, I put on a jacket before I grab a beer out of the fridge so I feel ya!

[gsd2053]

Could you drop a mine from a boat?

It was reported to be the equivalent of 500 kilos of C4. If correct that's a big payload. It was likely a guided device.

It would be possible for someone to construct an elaborate device to drop with down ward facing cameras and some kind of remote guidance. However I would be very big and very heavy. Approximately 1100 lbs just for the explosives.

It would have most likely been a camera guided torpedo or something similar.

[Artos]

Could you drop a mine from a boat?

Some chatter about the lines having a magnetic signature in your scenario, but that's way out of my lane??

[utahjeepr]

It was reported to be the equivalent of 500 kilos of C4. If correct that's a big payload. It was likely a guided device.

It would be possible for someone to construct an elaborate device to drop with down ward facing cameras and some kind of remote guidance. However I would be very big and very heavy. Approximately 1100 lbs just for the explosives.

It would have most likely been a camera guided torpedo or something similar.

(Channeling WillBrink) Source? And is that supposed to be total or 500 kilos each?

Imma ask nicely, do you know demo? Cause if you do you would know exactly how big that is.

Dude that's 880 M112 blocks. I could seriously disable a small city with that.

I'm not calling BS on you personally. I AM calling BS on whomever made that estimate. Seismometers in the region would have picked that shit up.

[Disciple]

I'm not calling BS on you personally. I AM calling BS on whomever made that estimate. Seismometers in the region would have picked that shit up.

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2022-09-27/seismograph-spiked-twice-on-day-of-baltic-pipeline-leaks-germanys-gfz

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/blasts-near-north-stream-were-explosions-not-earthquakes-swedish-seismologist-2022-09-27/

[Averageman]

It was reported to be the equivalent of 500 kilos of C4. If correct that's a big payload. It was likely a guided device.

It would be possible for someone to construct an elaborate device to drop with down ward facing cameras and some kind of remote guidance. However I would be very big and very heavy. Approximately 1100 lbs just for the explosives.

It would have most likely been a camera guided torpedo or something similar.

So a Trawler like ship could do the trick?
Nothing spectacular, sonar and the like and guide it in via a camera?

[HKGuns]

I'm not sure what your point is...Nord Stream concern has always been about this coming winter. The shutdown was political due to the war & while it caused a slow down it isn't currently catastrophic.

Now the new pipeline has a monopoly...gonna get interesting when the temps drop. I wouldn't be surprised if it too doesn't get whacked with today's clown world.

My point was to ensure all were on the same page.

[utahjeepr]

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2022-09-27/seismograph-spiked-twice-on-day-of-baltic-pipeline-leaks-germanys-gfz

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/blasts-near-north-stream-were-explosions-not-earthquakes-swedish-seismologist-2022-09-27/

So IF that '1100lbs of C4" estimate is accurate then just coincidentally like 90% of submarine launched torpedoes fit the profile.

[utahjeepr]

Just to add to the above; sounds like swatting flies with a Carrier Battle Group. Quick, expedient, and guaranteed. Sounds plausible to me.

That said, given an 'atmospheric" of 148 and an internal pressure of 1000? Even with concrete encasement of good steel line I bet I could rip them open for 12 M112"s each.

ETA: But I would have to get wet.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

maybe 500 kilos because it was a line charge designed to be laid over where you think the pipeline is and you don't need a sophisticated targeting system then. What kind of distance and charge do you need to compromise the pipeline? A kilo of C4 per meter? That's a half a kilometer long string to drape over the pipeline.

[utahjeepr]

maybe 500 kilos because it was a line charge designed to be laid over where you think the pipeline is and you don't need a sophisticated targeting system then. What kind of distance and charge do you need to compromise the pipeline? A kilo of C4 per meter? That's a half a kilometer long string to drape over the pipeline.

Sorry brah, bur you are grasping at straws. The only way "500 kilos of C4" makes sense is if you are talking off-the-shelf torpedo That also jives with the posted-by'others siesmo data.

For a UW drone a 50lb shape charge would do it. Or as.i have said I think a good UDT guy could do it with 15lbs oof C4.

ETA: Not harping on you brah. It's just that other than signing fat townie chicks into the E-club, UDT was kinda my thing.

[chuckman]

Recreational divers do 100 -200 meter dives daily on mixed gas rebreathers. A boat is only need for transportation and not even a big one.

The decom/recom support has to be on a boat. The logistics would be impressive if not considerable. That's not a recreational dive, that requires some bottom time. You cannot do lock-in/lock-out from a sub because a sub can't do decompression/recompression. So, a significant diving operation, a sub/submersible, or drone.

[Averageman]

Well one thing is for sure, no matter how cold it gets in Germany this year, no one's getting any gas out of those two pipelines.
They've kind of cut off any way to reverse course.

[Artos]

Notice how there are no conversations happening about this in the msm...gotta turn to alternative news to even kick it around.

https://mobile.twitter.com/theblaze/status/1575613634457255936

[HKGuns]

Notice how there are no conversations happening about this in the msm...gotta turn to alternative news to even kick it around.

https://mobile.twitter.com/theblaze/status/1575613634457255936

That is called a clue.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Sorry brah, bur you are grasping at straws. The only way "500 kilos of C4" makes sense is if you are talking off-the-shelf torpedo That also jives with the posted-by'others siesmo data.

For a UW drone a 50lb shape charge would do it. Or as.i have said I think a good UDT guy could do it with 15lbs oof C4.

ETA: Not harping on you brah. It's just that other than signing fat townie chicks into the E-club, UDT was kinda my thing.

And you just littered the bottom of the sea with one of a kind parts that point right back at you, that you would never be able to totally collect? At a depth that accessible and in an area you don’t control…. CNN with a rope and a magnet could totally screw you?

[P2Vaircrewman]

It can be and is done but not by your average "recreational diver". A rare few rec divers get the advanced training to go that deep. It ain't just grabbing a tank and reg and heading for the bottom. You don't need a chamber to do 100M, but the decompression stops are hours. 30 min or so bottom time at 100M is an all day affair. 200M is doable as well, just takes longer to get back up. Swimming with Trimix ain't what anyone refers to as 'recreational diving". Most are pros. Some advanced technical sport divers exist, but they are rare. Most of what rec divers are interested in is in the top 100ft. Other than wrecks, the undersea world gets bleaker and less interesting the deeper you go.

How long does it take to attach a block of C4 to a pipe. Decompression is determined by time and depth. According to Navy tables a 15 minute bottom time 100m dive on air has a 57 minute decompression penalty. On tri mix and O2 for decompression it would be considerably less.


https://www.divessi.com/en/advanced-training/extended-range/rebreather-diving/ccr-hypoxic-trimix#:~:text=The%20SSI%20CCR%20Hypoxic%20Trimix,minimum%20of%20three%20bailout%20cylinders.

[gsd2053]

I am sure if you were going to deny it was you. A country capable of manufacturing them. Can easily get or manufacture clandestine equipment.

I am expecting Denmark's investigation to reveal pieces of debris with Russian writing any day now. Or claimed Russian parts. It will be carried by media as Russian "FINGER PRINTS" all over it.

Because?

Another point. Why was the damage located far out of a Russian Controlled area?

Who is controling the investigation? who will be controling this narrative?

[tn1911]

You guys are pretending like Russia isn’t capable of ****ing this up by sheer accident. The stupid is strong with mother Russia!

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

You guys are pretending like Russia isn’t capable of ****ing this up by sheer accident. The stupid is strong with mother Russia!

It’s the multiple part that is kind of a sign? If you wanted to leave doubt, you’d just pop it off in one spot, but there were three spots?

[Todd.K]

I heard they found another leak, so it may be four. Unless they just hadn’t pinpointed one of the three yet.

Three was kind of confusing to me, either you are totally confident and put one on each or you make damn sure and put two on each.

[Artos]

That link I posted earlier / pages back claimed it was the 4th...I never caught #3.

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2022/09/29/swedes-report-new-fourth-leak-in-nord-stream-pipeline-sabotage/

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Sorry brah, bur you are grasping at straws. The only way "500 kilos of C4" makes sense is if you are talking off-the-shelf torpedo That also jives with the posted-by'others siesmo data.

For a UW drone a 50lb shape charge would do it. Or as.i have said I think a good UDT guy could do it with 15lbs oof C4.

ETA: Not harping on you brah. It's just that other than signing fat townie chicks into the E-club, UDT was kinda my thing.

You're just mad that I took the frog out of the water ;)



https://www.nord-stream.com/download/document/106/?language=en#:~:text=The%20wall%20thickness%20of%20the,and%20in%20Germany%2030.9%20mm.

Everything you want to know about the Nord pipeline.

So, 30mm of steel with a concrete coating to weigh it down. So 1-1/4 inch steel. Maybe german steel at that end :) .

Considering that water transmits pressure better, and the pipeline is filled with compressible gas, what kind of radius of destruction would 500kgs of explosive give you?

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

This guy breaks down all the rational possibilities. Very interesting breakdown.... He doesn't come to any conclusions. He seems to be at the same place as I am..."who did this because this is kind of dumb.?" He does some interesting analysis of various non-Putin actors in Russia and their motivations.


https://youtu.be/YUxJbjAnU4Q

[Artos]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jfpw9I01J0o

Posted on another forum:

Mil spec Ops Monkeywerx did a vid about 2 birds flying over the Baltic Sea...P8 & Re-fueler hanging around the pipeline real time when the lines blew.

I just started it (long vid) & can't say if it has any relevance...Just thought some might be interested.

[tn1911]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jfpw9I01J0o

Posted on another forum:

Mil spec Ops Monkeywerx did a vid about 2 birds flying over the Baltic Sea...P8 & Re-fueler hanging around the pipeline real time when the lines blew.

I just started it (long vid) & can't say if it has any relevance...Just thought some might be interested.



The presence of a P-8 actually raises the possibility this was a Russian attack. If it was a covert US op they’d not want any trackable assets anywhere near this thing....

[Diamondback]

Lawdog has some interesting thoughts... https://thelawdogfiles.com/2022/09/nordstream.html

"“So, LawDog,” I hear you say, “What do you think happened?”

Honestly, I suspect someone in the Russian government pinged Gazprom, and said, “The EU is about to have a cold winter. make sure those pipelines sodding well work, so we can sell someone natural gas at massively increased prices.”

So, Somebody In Charge started running checks — and came up with hydrate slurry in both pipelines. After the running in circles, hyperventilating, and shrieking of curse-words stopped, somebody started trying to remediate both lines. Of course they didn’t tell folks down stream — no Russian want to look weak, and besides, there’s been a nasty uptick in failed Russian oligarchs getting accidentally defenestrated — they just unilaterally tried to Fix Things.

It’s methane hydrate. Trust me, if there’s a hydrate plug, there’s more than one. With both pipes having no movement for months, if not a year, there were a metric butt-ton of hydrate plugs, slurry, and rime in both pipelines.

The Fixing of Things went bad. One went Paws Up, and they started trying to stop the other — but pressurisation (both ways) is a weeks-long process, and the second went bad, too. "

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jfpw9I01J0o

Posted on another forum:

Mil spec Ops Monkeywerx did a vid about 2 birds flying over the Baltic Sea...P8 & Re-fueler hanging around the pipeline real time when the lines blew.

I just started it (long vid) & can't say if it has any relevance...Just thought some might be interested.

How often are P8s operating like that?

[tn1911]

How often are P8s operating like that?

When hunting Russian and Chinamart subs?

All the time...

[Todd.K]

China just “offered” to help the EU out with their gas problem. I’m sure they also enjoy that the world remains focused on Russia and Ukraine.

Anyone think they could operate a sub in the Baltic without getting detected?

[tn1911]

China just “offered” to help the EU out with their gas problem. I’m sure they also enjoy that the world remains focused on Russia and Ukraine.

Anyone think they could operate a sub in the Baltic without getting detected?

Without getting detected? No.

[P2Vaircrewman]

China just “offered” to help the EU out with their gas problem. I’m sure they also enjoy that the world remains focused on Russia and Ukraine.

Anyone think they could operate a sub in the Baltic without getting detected?

Not if there is a P8 around.

[Artos]

Interesting article...The Curious Whodunit Of Nordstreams 1 & 2

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/luongo-curious-whodunit-nordstreams-1-2

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

68965
Lol

[Straight Shooter]

Dang- all these posts & theories, when its so OBVIOUS it was aliens. Its ALWAYS aliens when you dont know the real answer.

[Alpha-17]

68965
Lol

I've been waiting for a meme like this. How funny would it be if the three leaks were caused by different organizations completely independent of one another?

[tn1911]

Dang- all these posts & theories, when its so OBVIOUS it was aliens. Its ALWAYS aliens when you dont know the real answer.

Not even aliens can explain this bullshit...

[DG23]

Dang- all these posts & theories, when its so OBVIOUS it was aliens. Its ALWAYS aliens when you dont know the real answer.

The same aliens that can turn off nukes before they detonate?

(yes, we have guys here that believe and post garbage like that...)

[Averageman]

If it were the Russians what does this tell you?
They're in general retreat and they burn the bridges behind them?
They know they can't hold so here's a middle finger to Germany?

Russia is in an odd place right now, very unerving

[Todd.K]

I think if Russia did it, a big part was for INTERNAL reasons.

[tn1911]

I think if Russia did it, a big part was for INTERNAL reasons.

Maybe.

Maybe whoever ordered this did so without pedos knowledge trying to pull him into a conflict with NATO. Perhaps this is how they see a way of getting rid of him permanently?

[Diamondback]

Maybe.

Maybe whoever ordered this did so without pedos knowledge trying to pull him into a conflict with NATO. Perhaps this is how they see a way of getting rid of him permanently?

Big gamble if so. Then again, I don't see any outcome where Moscow CAN win, it's only "how do they lose least". Such conditions have a certain way of inviting things like Stauffenberg Plots...

[tn1911]

Stauffenberg Plots...

At this point, the hero we need.

[WillieThom]

The same aliens that can turn off nukes before they detonate?

(yes, we have guys here that believe and post garbage like that...)

It’s true! You just haven’t done enough research on the subject…

[ddbtoth]

I saw the same thing circulating a couple days ago. Let’s be real here, Biden can’t even exit a stage without getting ****ing lost. You really thing he’s some kind of secret mastermind who’s plotting sensitive operations to mess with the Russians?

I have no problem eating crow if in fact Biden did this. But my statement still stands. All that’s happening is the kick off to WWIII and the loss of our fellow Americans.
He’s brain damaged enough to run his mouth and look foolish. He has no idea of what he is saying.

[Averageman]

If it were the Russians what does this tell you?
They're in general retreat and they burn the bridges behind them?
They know they can't hold so here's a middle finger to Germany?

Russia is in an odd place right now, very unerving


I think if Russia did it, a big part was for INTERNAL reasons.

Just my opinion, but..
I don't see these pipelines being busted is working to Russia's advantage in anyway.
What I do see is that Germany now cannot capitulate to Russia to get the fuel they need this winter. Busting those pipelines essentially means there's no going back now.

[gsd2053]

Just my opinion, but..
I don't see these pipelines being busted is working to Russia's advantage in anyway.
What I do see is that Germany now cannot capitulate to Russia to get the fuel they need this winter. Busting those pipelines essentially means there's no going back now.

I couldn't agree more. Russia knew they were going after Crimea before the pipelines were built. They also had to know and have had planned what they wanted of Ukraine as well. Not to mention,, I believe what was the rest of what was the USSR pre 1991 as well.

They are in the energy business. Those pipelines were a huge investment in their future. No way other factions inside Russia did this to facilitate the removal of Putin. These pipelines benefit Russia as a whole. Long after Putin will be gone.

This was a Nato advantage and the US told Biden to make that threat for a reason.

[mack7.62]

What I find puzzling is Russia seems pretty quite about this, if innocent I would expect a lot more protesting from them. Also I wonder who holds the paper on these, who financed the construction, I notice Credit Suisse And Deutsche Bank are in trouble and at distressed valuations. This is like a real life Game of Thrones, no way for us plebs to know who really benefits from this.

[tn1911]

Swedish coast guard said one of its planes had reported that the smaller leak over Nord Stream 2 has instead increased.

https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/sweden-sends-special-diving-vessel-area-pipeline-leaks-90909813

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

This was a Nato advantage and the US told Biden to make that threat for a reason.

Biden's comment that they would shut down the Nordstreams 'one way or the other' was either a foreshadowing eight months ahead- when everyone thought the war would last weeks if not days- or it was Biden's way of covering up that he couldn't name the political/financial/economic mechanisms to pressure the Russians. Occam's razor that....

[Harpoon]

Russia did it, so they can accuse us of committing an act of sabotage or treachery, which they could say is an act of war.

[Todd.K]

Just my opinion, but..
I don't see these pipelines being busted is working to Russia's advantage in anyway.
What I do see is that Germany now cannot capitulate to Russia to get the fuel they need this winter.

What about the pipelines through Ukraine? Things get bad enough in Europe and they have to pressure Ukraine to accept a ceasefire and start pumping gas. Or things get bad enough in Europe that mass protests may bring regime change that will stop propping up Ukraine.

But the biggest problem Putin has is manpower. He really needs his people to believe that NATO is after them, to get behind the war.

[Averageman]

Russia did it, so they can accuse us of committing an act of sabotage or treachery, which they could say is an act of war.

Or we did it knowing that it removed the option for the Germans to work a side deal and capitulate to Russia for fuel this winter.
Take a look at whats going on in Germany, people are going out to the forrest to get wood for fuel. Grocery Stores have security tags on expensive pachages of meat.

[Artos]

Monkeywerx take on the situation...

https://www.monkeywerxus.com/blog/the-nord-stream-2-pipeline-sabotage

[georgeib]

Monkeywerx take on the situation...

https://www.monkeywerxus.com/blog/the-nord-stream-2-pipeline-sabotageYeah, that lays it out pretty succinctly.

[tn1911]

Monkeywerx take on the situation...

https://www.monkeywerxus.com/blog/the-nord-stream-2-pipeline-sabotage


Why would the United States take out this pipeline? Reason - because it is a very large source of revenue for Russia and the sanctions to date have not worked, in fact, they have backfired on the United States.

WTF is this guy talking about???

[Todd.K]

Biden's comment that they would shut down the Nordstreams 'one way or the other' was either a foreshadowing eight months ahead- when everyone thought the war would last weeks if not days- or it was Biden's way of covering up that he couldn't name the political/financial/economic mechanisms to pressure the Russians. Occam's razor that....

Or… Biden was briefed on our options to take out the pipelines, and couldn’t remember that he wasn’t supposed to talk about it to reporters…

It doesn’t prove the US did it, but if the President asks for options to shut down a pipeline… he will get options that include the military blowing it up.

[gsd2053]

Or… Biden was briefed on our options to take out the pipelines, and couldn’t remember that he wasn’t supposed to talk about it to reporters…

It doesn’t prove the US did it, but if the President asks for options to shut down a pipeline… he will get options that include the military blowing it up.

That is what I got from "it will be no more. We will end it.

[Todd.K]

That is what I got from "it will be no more. We will end it.

What else did he vow to end? Fossil fuels. And now that they almost doubled gas prices, they tell us it’s an exciting opportunity to “transition”.

Secretary of State Antony Blinken just called the Nord Stream pipeline bombing a "tremendous opportunity."

[vicious_cb]

What else did he vow to end? Fossil fuels. And now that they almost doubled gas prices, they tell us it’s an exciting opportunity to “transition”.

Secretary of State Antony Blinken just called the Nord Stream pipeline bombing a "tremendous opportunity."

Man, aren't we the greatest capitalists of all time or what. Create the problem, sell the solution. Euros will be lining up to buy our LNG when winter comes.

With friends like us, who needs enemies.

[Todd.K]

We can’t ship any more. I don’t know if it’s production or infrastructure but I read somewhere we are maxed out on exporting it.

The greens shut down an LNG terminal project near me recently.

[kaiservontexas]

The greenies are the reason this has become a problem.

[Inkslinger]

What else did he vow to end? Fossil fuels. And now that they almost doubled gas prices, they tell us it’s an exciting opportunity to “transition”.

Secretary of State Antony Blinken just called the Nord Stream pipeline bombing a "tremendous opportunity."

Yet most won’t interpret his statement as to how it pertains to our energy independence. If you don’t want Putin to weaponize energy, you shouldn’t want any other nation states to be able to weaponize it either. You would think it would benefit our entire country to get back on the road to energy independence. Cheaper fuel cost for our citizens and a position that would never allow a single country to hold oil over our heads. Drill baby, drill!

[gsd2053]

We can’t ship any more. I don’t know if it’s production or infrastructure but I read somewhere we are maxed out on exporting it.

The greens shut down an LNG terminal project near me recently.

Slide of hand my friend. Anything is possible when big money is at stake.

Analysis: U.S. LNG exports to Europe on track to surpass Biden promise.

When U.S. President Joe Biden promised European leaders in March that he would help secure new supplies of liquefied natural gas to offset shortages from Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, his pledge was greeted with scepticism.

After all, the U.S. LNG industry was already hitting its export limits and the global market is dominated by long-term contracts that can dictate where exported gas would go for twenty years at a time. It turns out, however, that Biden's promise may have been far too modest.

The United States is on track to blow past Biden’s March commitment of an additional 15 billion cubic meters of LNG for Europe this year, according to a Reuters analysis of export data compiled by Refinitiv, and to triple the pledge.

Don't forget our allies. We all get to profit from this.

In 2021, Australia, with an export volume of 108.1 billion cubic meters, was the most significant LNG exporter. Qatar ranked second, followed by the United States.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

I think the Kremlin doth protest too little....

Something ain't right. Unless they are planning on using the propaganda later, they sure don't seem to care about their pipeline very much...

[gsd2053]

I think the Kremlin doth protest too little....

Something ain't right. Unless they are planning on using the propaganda later, they sure don't seem to care about their pipeline very much...

Maybe russia crying out in pain isn't going to be beneficial. It would only rally his opposition. Its not going to garner him any additional support. When things are already stacking up against him. He has already stated who he thinks did it. Crying out loudly will only serve as a predator call. His plate consists of keeping his gains of Ukraine territory.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Maybe russia crying out in pain isn't going to be beneficial. It would only rally his opposition. Its not going to garner him any additional support. When things are already stacking up against him. He has already stated who he thinks did it. Crying out loudly will only serve as a predator call. His plate consists of keeping his gains of Ukraine territory.

Please. It totally fits into the narrative that the West is out to get him and destroy Mother Russia. I agree that it doesn't make a lot of sense for them to do it, but it sure doesn't make a lot of sense for them to be this quiet. Sure, threaten to use nuclear weapons, but don't talk about the destruction of the crown jewel in their energy portfolio.

[gsd2053]

Please. It totally fits into the narrative that the West is out to get him and destroy Mother Russia. I agree that it doesn't make a lot of sense for them to do it, but it sure doesn't make a lot of sense for them to be this quiet. Sure, threaten to use nuclear weapons, but don't talk about the destruction of the crown jewel in their energy portfolio.

He has already stated he believes the West and its allies have done it. What else can he do?

[Disciple]

Slide of hand my friend.

Sleight of hand.

[Waylander]

The joke I read somewhere is if Russia cries too loudly it would be the equivalent of OJ Simpson asking for a full length mirror to search for his wife’s killer.

[gsd2053]

Sleight of hand.

Yeah, that one!

[gsd2053]

https://youtu.be/woQKGOrjpYs

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2023/12/nord-stream-pipeline-attack-theories-suspects-investigation/676320/

TLDwR;

It was a rag-tag Ukranian operation. Really surprised that they would let anyone go down and see the damage. In an Occam's Razor sense, it seems most likely....