View Full Version : I’ll see your Dicken Drill and raise you 180yd shot on an Active shooter…
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-30-22, 11:55
https://notthebee.com/article/this-cop-calmly-pulled-up-to-an-active-shooter-put-down-his-coffee-grabbed-his-rifle-and-downed-the-perp-with-a-single-shot-legend
Like a boss. His coffee didn’t even get cold.
LEO rolls up on a AS, gets his AR from back, dials the red dot brightness (guess) and drops the shooter as he reloads from 180 yards away. I call that ‘unsupported’, but looks like he was leaning against the SUV. It wasn’t like he was proned out or supporting the directly.
AH, Twitter. Just what you’d expect:
https://twitter.com/jackposobiec/status/1575334170137690114?s=21&t=vtedENTep9NF-UnIBsyr4g
ETA:
How can you tell this wasn’t in NYC? The LEO says “SHOT fired, suspect down”. No Stormtrooper mag dump here…
WickedWillis
09-30-22, 12:15
That's what great training does for LEO's. Amazing shot. I think this was in Tacoma BTW
What kind of sighting system is that?
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-30-22, 12:22
What kind of sighting system is that?
Looked like a red dot, maybe an Aimpoint T1? Almost undoubtably a 1X and not a magnified optic. He did seem to have some kind of designator in front of it on the top rail. i’m not familiar with those, so I can’t identify it.
‘BAD’ lever too…. I’d say that this was not a rookie. That’s a state of the art set up circa 2012.
Its a riser and rail system developed by some SEALs. Company is called GBRS or something like that.
titsonritz
09-30-22, 12:24
That's what great training does for LEO's. Amazing shot. I think this was in Tacoma BTW
Probably knows and trains with Bill Blowers.
What kind of sighting system is that?
GBRS Aimpoint Hydra Mount (https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2022/07/07/gbrs-aimpoint-hydra-mount/)
titsonritz
09-30-22, 12:27
Its a riser and rail system developed by some SEALs. Company is called GBRS or something like that.
You just beat me to it. DJ SHIPLEY and COLE FACKLER. Was talking about this mount with Jon Dufresne a couple months back at his NV class I attended. I would like to check one out. Looks like it might be a descent solution for SBR's with limited rail-estate.
titsonritz
09-30-22, 12:30
I like how he calmly sets java down, gets out of his rig, grabs his carbine and smokes the turd with single shot. Cucumber cool.
Its a riser and rail system developed by some SEALs. Company is called GBRS or something like that.
Thanks, I found it on the net with a pic included
180 yards with no magnification is very impressive to me with my 65 year old eyes.
It's an Aimpoint T2 on a GBRS Hydra mount.
The officer was very calm. Fired one shot at 183 yards with his AR and knocked the shooter flat. Then he charged. Kudos to him. Ex military?
Damn. I thought this was going to be a pistol challenge. Thank God it's rifle.
Balls of steel. He has them.
The Dumb Gun Collector
09-30-22, 16:55
That dude looked like he was there to turn off a car alarm. Cold as ice!
If only they ALL went like this.
One More Time
09-30-22, 19:41
This is what the media should be putting out non stop.
As in.. This is what happens to shit bags immediately. **** around and find out.
Not much glory bleeding out on the pavement, didn't even go out in a hail of bullets.
He sounded in control before and after the shot, much different than other officer shootings I've watched. Like he was calling out a hit on the plate.
This is what the media should be putting out non stop.
He sounded in control before and after the shot, much different than other officer shootings I've watched. Like he was calling out a hit on the plate.
1. I totally agree, but that doesn't fit the narrative. Only cops screwing up or doing bad things fits the media narrative.
2. This comment doesn't disparage the shooter in any way, but lets keep certain things in mind. One, he was not the only cop on scene, nor was he first. The threat distance was far away, there was no immediate threat to the officer. The book "On Killing" is not a favorite of mine by any stretch, but one of the things the author nailed involved distance to killing as a matter of mental trauma to the shooter. Mental trauma does not mean he freaks out and goes off on a stress disability, it simple means something out of the ordinary and against the raising of the shooter when they were a child. The VA coins this as "Moral Injury" for people who are unfamiliar with the term, and you can google it to get a better understanding, but I digress.
Anyway, back to #2. Grossman points out in his book there is a level of disparity between the bomber pilot at 30,000 feet and the artilleryman, and the tanker, and the infantryman in a DFP, and the greatest disparity of all is the man who kills at point blank range while looking his subject in the eye as they fight hand to hand. The bomber pilot is killing many more people, so why does he have the least concern over his actions? Primarily (summing it up in generalities) because he never sees the faces, never hears the screams, never sees the damage, and is never directly threatened by those he is bombing. Please remember, this is a generalization. Change that scenario to the cop or military man who gets jumped by a bad guy and engages in hand to hand combat. The man who sticks in the knife or shoots the other while they are engaged in fighting each other. That cop or infantryman is exposed in the largest of ways. He feels the threat, he understands he will die if he loses, he sees and feels the reaction as he kills.
Is it any wonder we see a difference in the reaction of the pilot versus the cop/ infantryman? Is it any wonder (training and previous experiences aside) we see a different reaction in the aftermath of officer involved shootings when we break them down the same way?
It doesn't change all that much as cops when we interact with people in the street. The good people who are exposed to violence have not seen or lived it before, or if they have, its typically not often. They tend to be more anxious/ stressed when first contact is made. Change that to a street turd, and they play it as cool as the pain will allow. Its just part of life for them. They have seen it close up many times, and its nothing new much of the time.
Once again I'll point out, this does not diminish the actions of the TPD Officer involved! The Officer is rock solid, with good training, good experiences, good equipment, and as much as I hate to say it about the brass, in this case he has good leadership (cough cough as I spit the taste of praising any the brass from my mouth). I hope the Officer was able to enjoy his leave, write a nice clear report of his actions, say the correct happy things to the shrink, and get back to duty in an orderly fashion.
I can't believe everyone missed it !
That policeman had a Nato Bond strap on his watch. That's why he's so cool.
He sounded in control before and after the shot, much different than other officer shootings I've watched. Like he was calling out a hit on the plate.
I guess I’ll say it, that ain’t the first bad guy that man has sent to hell.
The_War_Wagon
09-30-22, 21:04
Interesting gizmo.
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/GBRS_Hydra_-_AIMPOINT1_810a68cf-c0d4-474b-bb38-11daaf2aa923_750x.jpg
One More Time
09-30-22, 21:13
Excellent summery Stickman.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-30-22, 21:52
I hope the Officer was able to enjoy his leave, write a nice clear report of his actions, say the correct happy things to the shrink, and get back to duty in an orderly fashion.
Well, at least the report will be short…
The shooter was down, but did I read that he killed himself?
ThirdWatcher
09-30-22, 22:27
If only they ALL went like this.
I agree. Years ago I patrolled a beat that abutted the city of Tacoma and I was impressed with their professionalism. Team-players too. A lot of gun-guys in the PNW but this Officer is clearly a cut above most of us.
I wonder if he is ex-Military? We shot at popup targets at (IIRC) 75, 150, & 300 meters but that was on the range, not the street...
1. I totally agree, but that doesn't fit the narrative. Only cops screwing up or doing bad things fits the media narrative.
2. This comment doesn't disparage the shooter in any way, but lets keep certain things in mind. One, he was not the only cop on scene, nor was he first. The threat distance was far away, there was no immediate threat to the officer. The book "On Killing" is not a favorite of mine by any stretch, but one of the things the author nailed involved distance to killing as a matter of mental trauma to the shooter. Mental trauma does not mean he freaks out and goes off on a stress disability, it simple means something out of the ordinary and against the raising of the shooter when they were a child. The VA coins this as "Moral Injury" for people who are unfamiliar with the term, and you can google it to get a better understanding, but I digress.
Anyway, back to #2. Grossman points out in his book there is a level of disparity between the bomber pilot at 30,000 feet and the artilleryman, and the tanker, and the infantryman in a DFP, and the greatest disparity of all is the man who kills at point blank range while looking his subject in the eye as they fight hand to hand. The bomber pilot is killing many more people, so why does he have the least concern over his actions? Primarily (summing it up in generalities) because he never sees the faces, never hears the screams, never sees the damage, and is never directly threatened by those he is bombing. Please remember, this is a generalization. Change that scenario to the cop or military man who gets jumped by a bad guy and engages in hand to hand combat. The man who sticks in the knife or shoots the other while they are engaged in fighting each other. That cop or infantryman is exposed in the largest of ways. He feels the threat, he understands he will die if he loses, he sees and feels the reaction as he kills.
Is it any wonder we see a difference in the reaction of the pilot versus the cop/ infantryman? Is it any wonder (training and previous experiences aside) we see a different reaction in the aftermath of officer involved shootings when we break them down the same way?
It doesn't change all that much as cops when we interact with people in the street. The good people who are exposed to violence have not seen or lived it before, or if they have, its typically not often. They tend to be more anxious/ stressed when first contact is made. Change that to a street turd, and they play it as cool as the pain will allow. Its just part of life for them. They have seen it close up many times, and its nothing new much of the time.
Once again I'll point out, this does not diminish the actions of the TPD Officer involved! The Officer is rock solid, with good training, good experiences, good equipment, and as much as I hate to say it about the brass, in this case he has good leadership (cough cough as I spit the taste of praising any the brass from my mouth). I hope the Officer was able to enjoy his leave, write a nice clear report of his actions, say the correct happy things to the shrink, and get back to duty in an orderly fashion.
Not much to add, glad I'm not the only one who has read the classics.
180 yards with no magnification is very impressive to me with my 65 year old eyes.
Ditto but only 54 y/o.
I think the tide turned after Uvalde and the public would support this - which is why you don't see it on the news.
Andy
Interesting gizmo.
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/GBRS_Hydra_-_AIMPOINT1_810a68cf-c0d4-474b-bb38-11daaf2aa923_750x.jpg
Pricey, too, $539.
kaiservontexas
10-01-22, 11:26
Good job for the officer.
How often do such distances come into play for the regular police officer?
StyerAug out of curiosity what are the classics?
OutofBatt3ry
10-01-22, 12:45
that loadout....
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fdy5VP8VsAAjlzo?format=jpg&name=large
Generic side charger, and what looks an Aero 300bo setup topped off with some airsoft RDS's. I guess someone should have told him the NFA is a thing.
Interesting gizmo.
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/GBRS_Hydra_-_AIMPOINT1_810a68cf-c0d4-474b-bb38-11daaf2aa923_750x.jpg
Just looks so damn TALL.
What's the attraction with the mount?
What's the attraction with the mount?
Easier to use with a gas mask, some plates.
Easier to use with a gas mask, some plates.
This and and a solution for mounting a laser PDW style gun with very little rail space.
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-01-22, 13:55
that loadout....
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fdy5VP8VsAAjlzo?format=jpg&name=large
Generic side charger, and what looks an Aero 300bo setup topped off with some airsoft RDS's. I guess someone should have told him the NFA is a thing.
Bad guy kit?
OutofBatt3ry
10-01-22, 15:06
Bad guy kit?
That's what I assume; from the twatter feed.
I think the GBRS mount is a bit ridiculous but with how new it is and it’s price point, I’d guess that an LEO using one probably has some experience. The shot backs that up, the cop obviously shoots.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Highest praise for this officer, a true professional, hopefully there are still many like him nationwide, but I doubt it. There are definitely none in the NYPD, Chicago, Boston or Washington DC police depts I would venture to guess.
crosseyedshooter
10-01-22, 15:29
Breitbart has some additional footage from other perspectives:
http://youtu.be/JrCrjSPwfVU
Why is the officers' weapons and projectiles of choice referred to differently than the same things used by Collins?
Breitbart has some additional footage from other perspectives:
http://youtu.be/JrCrjSPwfVU
Not only is that a 100% good shoot, that might be the cleanest and best example I've ever seen. I've seen training exercises by very experienced LEOs not go as well. I was looking hard for mistakes and missed opportunities and the only things I saw aren't even worth mentioning.
If this guy doesn't get some kind of meritorious service and valor award, Tacoma is crazy.
Good job for the officer.
How often do such distances come into play for the regular police officer?
StyerAug out of curiosity what are the classics?
"On Killing" is one of them.
Pretty much everything by Jeff Cooper, but especially To Ride, Shoot Straight, and Speak the Truth.
In the Gravest Extreme by Ayoob.
Stressfire by Ayoob
The Tactical Pistol by Suarez
1911 and the AR by Tiger McKee
Green Eyes, Black Rifles by Kyle Lamb
A Rifleman Went To War by McBride
Bullseyes Don't Shoot Back by Applegate
That's off the top of my head.
titsonritz
10-01-22, 18:37
Pretty much everything by Jeff Cooper, but especially To Ride, Shoot Straight, and Speak the Truth
...Principles of Personal Defense
Diamondback
10-01-22, 19:04
Have we started drawing up a Munn Drill to start looking for Lessons Learned as with the Dicken Drill?
Classics, don't forget Jim Cirillo or Walt Rauch, may they rest in peace.
...Principles of Personal Defense
Absolutely.
kaiservontexas
10-01-22, 20:07
Thanks! I have read a few of those.
During the aftermath of the Uvalde massacre and failure of the response, a story came out about an officer with a rifle that spotted the murder outside the school. Supposedly the distance was around 140 yds and the officer asked for permission to engage. I think that story was debunked. But a lot of discussions ensued about how easy that shot would have been. I wanted to see how I would have done in that scenario. Unfortunately, my range does not allow standing shots at the rifle range, everyone has to shoot from prone or the bench.
The best I could do was at the shorter pistol range where the rules allowed standing rifle fire. The longest set up was 60 yds, less than half the internet's claims. So with an iron sighted CAR15, it was pretty easy to get multiple A zone hits on an IPSC/IDPA sized target, standing off hand.
There is no way to attempt 100 yds or longer shots at my gun club (standing). It's about safety you know.
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-01-22, 20:58
Just use a half size to target, or a closer to a third size target for this shoot. I had never seen anything about the cop asking for permission and not shooting in Uvalde being discredited. Is that true? I thought they had specifically said they had it on audio. It was one of the first things I thought about after seeing this video. He didn’t ask anybody to take that shot.
ThirdWatcher
10-01-22, 22:40
It’s easier to get forgiveness than permission. Words to live by...
I guess I’ll say it, that ain’t the first bad guy that man has sent to hell.
That was my first reaction. He’s been in a two way range before
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
During the aftermath of the Uvalde massacre and failure of the response, a story came out about an officer with a rifle that spotted the murder outside the school. Supposedly the distance was around 140 yds and the officer asked for permission to engage. I think that story was debunked.
The official report(or one of the official reports) made that claim, but Uvalde officials have since countered the report by claiming the person 140 yards away was a coach with the kids. The articles I am seeing seem to alternate between the officer observing the coach awhile and not shooting and the officer making the request to another officer on scene who never responded.
Good firearm skills are only part of the equation. Mindset and stress inoculation are equally as important, and a good firearm training program will address these factors.
Good job by the LEO. Let's hope the system protects him from the far left.
Diamondback
10-02-22, 09:34
Sadly, Tacoma has a Seattle Commie for county prosecutor, or did last I knew. It was rather telling that despite the previous guy being a D himself, he was always very vocal about denouncing "Seattle Liberals"...
Sadly, Tacoma has a Seattle Commie for county prosecutor, or did last I knew. It was rather telling that despite the previous guy being a D himself, he was always very vocal about denouncing "Seattle Liberals"...
When I picked up on the Tacoma area I seemed to recall their .gov being rabidly anti-gun and memory did serve correctly.
kaiservontexas
10-02-22, 13:39
This brought up a whacky thought. Is there ever a self defense situation that would require such distances? I ask this because if criminals/active shooters are going to start using carbines and rifles, which have longer reach. Then isn’t the possibility of having to engage a scumbag at distance becoming a higher probability?
The only instance I know of personally in which a Good Samaritan engaged a bad guy at distance happened back in the mid 90s in my area. Some schmuck I went to high school with, even got into a few fights with the person, graduated from delinquency to criminal by the time he was 18/19. He set up a group to steal cars and strip them for parts, which they did by stealing the cars out of this one subdivision all day long and strip those cars in a massive field behind it. Like the idiot he is he did this all day long, and as such got noticed and caught. The constables show up and a firefight ensued. The officer was outnumbered and was being flanked, but this old guy was driving up and noticed the chaos. The guy had a rifle in his truck, bolt action deer rifle, and began to open accurate fire on the criminals. This saved the officer from possibly being killed. I do not recall any fatalities, just wounded, and the criminals went to prison. Anyway, this is the only time I know of a self defense engagement at distance. Distance being 100 yards or less.
Diamondback
10-02-22, 14:05
I'm not sure the legal environment has caught up to operational reality yet--Branca and several other self-defense-law specialists have raised concerns about extended ranges interacting with "presumption of innocence" requiring the fight come to you, "doctrine of competing harms" and some other things.
It seems to me that we need to go for a preemptive strike codifying the validity of RCP's and other "intermediates" between sidearm and longarm in self defense, just because of how many sheeple crap themselves at CCW never mind anything larger.
kaiservontexas
10-02-22, 17:31
I'm not sure the legal environment has caught up to operational reality yet--Branca and several other self-defense-law specialists have raised concerns about extended ranges interacting with "presumption of innocence" requiring the fight come to you, "doctrine of competing harms" and some other things.
It seems to me that we need to go for a preemptive strike codifying the validity of RCP's and other "intermediates" between sidearm and longarm in self defense, just because of how many sheeple crap themselves at CCW never mind anything larger.
Yeah, I can see how folks will spaz over the concept of folks utilizing their long arms for self defense in public space at distances beyond the typical handgun. Nonetheless it is a concern, and I wait for a solid answers.
I will be honest the active shooter in Las Vegas during the concert from the hotel was the first event to get me to think about such things. Maybe those Kel-Tec SU folding carbines are not a bad concept. I do not mean owning the gun, just the concept of a easy to carry and conceal long arm. I like the idea of a truck/trunk gun, but never get comfortable with leaving a weapon in such an unsecured space. I never view vehicles as secure due to all the times cars are broken into, which last year became a common occurrence in my relatively crime free area. Seems some teenagers in the neighborhood got it into their heads that breaking into cars was a good way to find guns, and they were partially correct. Thankfully the police caught them before they could go do whatever it is they were planning to do with their stolen firepower. It was never said; so, I am not sure if they had no plans, looking to sale it all, or had worse in mind, but I believe worse. This all makes me miss back in the day when folks had rifle racks in their trucks and nobody ever bothered them.
Diamondback
10-02-22, 17:57
I mocked up (never completed) a Mk 18-inspired briefcase build, and I'm toying with the idea of an EDC-bag ASDW alongside my EDC FAK and tablet case.
Actually, my looking into discreet-carry Mk 18 derivatives STARTED in reply to the Vegas shooting, trying to come up with something that could nestle into a laptop case or duffle-bag to be lo-viz yet still get a headshot with satisfactory terminal ballistics on a 400-yd Slant Range. (A few LE buddies and I based on the maps available figured that from Scumbag's window 20ish stories up into the crowd across the street was about 390.) This also explains my geekout re the GL/SSC for a similar concept, lob a smoker or a flashbang through the Active Shooter's murderhole and that should help disrupt his effectiveness while setting up for Lights Out.
I'm not sure the legal environment has caught up to operational reality yet--Branca and several other self-defense-law specialists have raised concerns about extended ranges interacting with "presumption of innocence" requiring the fight come to you, "doctrine of competing harms" and some other things.
It seems to me that we need to go for a preemptive strike codifying the validity of RCP's and other "intermediates" between sidearm and longarm in self defense, just because of how many sheeple crap themselves at CCW never mind anything larger.
Even with Castle Law states I think "sadly" most would expect you to retreat and given most of us aren't law enforcement in most cases that would probably be the wisest course of action unless you really were shooing in defense of others. Just understand that the courts, including your defense attorney, the judge and jury will have almost no real world understanding of these things.
Diamondback
10-02-22, 18:55
Even with Castle Law states I think "sadly" most would expect you to retreat and given most of us aren't law enforcement in most cases that would probably be the wisest course of action unless you really were shooing in defense of others. Just understand that the courts, including your defense attorney, the judge and jury will have almost no real world understanding of these things.
Shades of other things--in light of my neuropathology, Mas once recommended that it would be prudent for my attorney and I to basically give the court an abbreviated college-level course on Autistic Psych should I ever find myself in a Defensive Shoot. In a nutshell, "be prepared to give a class in why you did what you did."
Shades of other things--in light of my neuropathology, Mas once recommended that it would be prudent for my attorney and I to basically give the court an abbreviated college-level course on Autistic Psych should I ever find myself in a Defensive Shoot. In a nutshell, "be prepared to give a class in why you did what you did."
Well you are already ahead of the game with "bring in expert witness testimony" vs "attempt to explain it to your defense attorney."
In South Florida, which is saturated with attorneys, I only knew TWO who actually knew "some of this stuff" when it came to firearms but both were personal injury attorneys.
kaiservontexas
10-03-22, 21:36
I should have clarified, given the state of burning cities in certain areas not to long ago. I could see a reason for self defense at a distance. What I get for posting while feeling icky. Lastly my go to reasons would be simple enough and plan to see. I can’t run. Fun being disabled.
This is what the media should be putting out non stop.
As in.. This is what happens to shit bags immediately. **** around and find out.
Not much glory bleeding out on the pavement, didn't even go out in a hail of bullets.
He sounded in control before and after the shot, much different than other officer shootings I've watched. Like he was calling out a hit on the plate.
All this is exactly why you wont see it on MSM
Even with Castle Law states I think "sadly" most would expect you to retreat and given most of us aren't law enforcement in most cases that would probably be the wisest course of action unless you really were shooing in defense of others. Just understand that the courts, including your defense attorney, the judge and jury will have almost no real world understanding of these things.
The way my place is currently set up (I'm working on a change built into our remodel project), if I was taking fire from the end of my driveway (200 yds long), I could not retreat due to lack of cover and no exit out that would not be in the line of fire. BUT.. if I was taking rounds to the house from the end of my driveway I am not going to retreat. I'm too old for that shit. I'll take my chances with a jury.
Diamondback
10-03-22, 22:09
I should have clarified, given the state of burning cities in certain areas not to long ago. I could see a reason for self defense at a distance. What I get for posting while feeling icky. Lastly my go to reasons would be simple enough and plan to see. I can’t run. Fun being disabled.
Quite agreed, the problem is getting the ambulance chasers and the twelve dumbest monkey-humping crotchfruits they can stuff in the box to see things our way.
Home D sitch in the house we're moving into: Four bedrooms all clustered together at one end, Her Bedriddenness insisting on claiming the one closest to front door, living room and crapper for herself despite that creating a situation where she would be blocking my line of fire and the entire POINT of having me around is to do what she no longer can for herself including Threat Engagement.
Good news is with it being kind of a D-loop neighborhood, we only need to take chainsaws and drop trees at three points for barricades. Problem is we can't count on 100% "good guys" inside the perimeter once we do...
The way my place is currently set up (I'm working on a change built into our remodel project), if I was taking fire from the end of my driveway (200 yds long), I could not retreat due to lack of cover and no exit out that would not be in the line of fire. BUT.. if I was taking rounds to the house from the end of my driveway I am not going to retreat. I'm too old for that shit. I'll take my chances with a jury.
I'm not saying you should NOT eliminate the threat at first opportunity, I'm only recognizing that the average person isn't going to understand why that is the correct response. Most idiots think that once a person ceases to stop trying to hit you with a skateboard you no longer remain at the lethal force threshold.
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-04-22, 08:52
Besides, Las Vegas, there was the church shooting in Texas, where the guy engaged the shooter as he came out, and then ran him down.
ThirdWatcher
10-05-22, 01:56
... I am not going to retreat. I'm too old for that shit. I'll take my chances with a jury.
Totally agree, that’s where I’m at now. In the agency I’m retired from, we (Troopers & Sergeants) did ground fighting every year at In-Service Training at the Academy. In the last portion of the session we had to don our (older, unserviceable) uniforms and be attacked while we were on the ground.
The Trooper in line ahead of me had a hard time with the “bad guy” and, being in my 50’s I knew I didn’t want any part of that. When it was my turn, I drew my blue gun as the “bad guy” jumped on me, jabbed it in his eye and said “BANG, you’re dead” and the Instructor said “Yeah, you’re dead”. That was the end of it.
Never pick a fight with an old man, he might just kill you...
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