View Full Version : US Sailor Found Not Guilty of Destroying Billion Dollar Navy Ship
"Prosecutors acknowledged during the trial that a Navy report last year concluded the blaze was allowed to burn for days due to a series of individual and systemic failures — including that crews were not trained properly in fire preparedness.
More than 20 senior officers and sailors were disciplined in the wake of the blaze."
https://nypost.com/2022/09/30/navy-sailor-ryan-mays-not-guilty-of-setting-fire-to-ship/
Coal Dragger
10-02-22, 11:40
Typical UCMJ: try to blame and crucify the lowest enlisted person the scumbag officers can find to deflect blame from their piss poor “leadership”.
The US Navy is badly broken, I doubt they’re capable of effective operations against a near peer due to no real leadership within the Navy. The culture simply won’t allow leaders to be autonomous or develop any useful skills.
Typical UCMJ: try to blame and crucify the lowest enlisted person the scumbag officers can find to deflect blame from their piss poor “leadership”.
The US Navy is badly broken, I doubt they’re capable of effective operations against a near peer due to no real leadership within the Navy. The culture simply won’t allow leaders to be autonomous or develop any useful skills.
That dude was a POS, too. Apparently washed out of BUDS and was a general pain in the ass. I am not sure this was entirely a targeted hit job. It's not like the Navy doesn't shitcan officers, too; I think they fire more officers and senior NCOs than any other branch.
Coal Dragger
10-02-22, 14:00
Either way this has the stench of officers desperate to avoid blame looking for a scapegoat.
Lot’s of dudes wash out of BUDS, statistically way more wash out than make it through. I don’t think they’re all shitbirds though. Maybe this kid was, but that clearly doesn’t mean he set fire to a US Navy warship.
Kind of ironic that he told his department head there was so much clutter the area was hazardous, and he gets charged with setting the fire. Maybe he was just trying to warn his department head about a legit issue.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
10-02-22, 15:05
That dude was a POS, too. Apparently washed out of BUDS and was a general pain in the ass. I am not sure this was entirely a targeted hit job. It's not like the Navy doesn't shitcan officers, too; I think they fire more officers and senior NCOs than any other branch.
Washing out of a program with a 90 percent attrition rate of studs makes one a POS?
What elite program did you try out for? And did you pass?
Straight Shooter
10-02-22, 16:01
Washing out of a program with a 90 percent attrition rate of studs makes one a POS?
What elite program did you try out for? And did you pass?
I was thinking the same thing.
I tried out for Force Recon once...ONCE.
Didn't make it. Guess Ima POS.
Oh well.
Washing out of a program with a 90 percent attrition rate of studs makes one a POS?
What elite program did you try out for? And did you pass?
Well, I was a SARC, so... Unless you don't consider Marine reconnaissance 'elite,' then I concede your point. Some people don't because they are not part of SOCOM, so I see that argument.
His evals were never good, his leadership never thought highly of him, and he had a trail of issues.
Allow me to rephrase. He was a sub-par sailor, in spite of washing out of BUDS. Edited to add, JAG made it seem that it was because he did not make BUDS that his attitude was so bad, and had a trail of such with different assignments.
Coal Dragger
10-02-22, 16:39
Well, I was a SARC, so... Unless you don't consider Marine reconnaissance 'elite,' then I concede your point. Some people don't because they are not part of SOCOM, so I see that argument.
His evals were never good, his leadership never thought highly of him, and he had a trail of issues.
Given the state of most “leadership” these days in the .mil I would first question the “leadership” on why they have an underperforming sailor. It’s their job to lead, develop, and motivate him. I’ve seen legit leaders put some effort into doing that and turn around a Marine or two that needed it. It is possible but it requires effort, and some room to work within reason.
Unfortunately todays .mil outside of special operations (that weeds out the underperforming to begin with) seems very focused on a lot of bullshit occupying the time of “leadership” to make things look good on the admin side more than the operational side. Throwing a bone to non flag rank officers, and staff NCO’s there’s a ton of literal shit on their plate that shouldn’t even exist taking time away from actually leading, guiding, motivating, and developing soldiers, sailors, and Marines.
Combine that with a zero defect culture and young officers in particular seem to be given no room to make decisions for fear of ending their career before it even starts if that decision was a mistake. That’s not a culture that allows younger leaders to grow and learn themselves, and here we are with leadership from top to bottom that is broken.
Given the state of most “leadership” these days in the .mil I would first question the “leadership” on why they have an underperforming sailor. It’s their job to lead, develop, and motivate him. I’ve seen legit leaders put some effort into doing that and turn around a Marine or two that needed it. It is possible but it requires effort, and some room to work within reason.
Unfortunately todays .mil outside of special operations (that weeds out the underperforming to begin with) seems very focused on a lot of bullshit occupying the time of “leadership” to make things look good on the admin side more than the operational side. Throwing a bone to non flag rank officers, and staff NCO’s there’s a ton of literal shit on their plate that shouldn’t even exist taking time away from actually leading, guiding, motivating, and developing soldiers, sailors, and Marines.
Combine that with a zero defect culture and young officers in particular seem to be given no room to make decisions for fear of ending their career before it even starts if that decision was a mistake. That’s not a culture that allows younger leaders to grow and learn themselves, and here we are with leadership from top to bottom that is broken.
Totally agree. The Navy's zero defect culture has been horrible, and has been a significant issue of losing very good ship COs and senior enlisted. I would also question why the sailor had gone for so long with sub-standard performance and it'd be considered a shock that he would have been considered for doing something like this.
To your point of the amount of stuff on one's plate, every rank I had when I was commissioned (nurse corps, but still...), I had no fewer than five collateral duties in addition to my actual job, as well as being in a leadership position over an element or a division as a division officer. That is very real and I imagine it is only worse with the ULOs in the fleet.
Coal Dragger
10-02-22, 18:09
How much did any of that ancillary work load you had actually accomplish anything truly useful within your unit? I am guessing very very little. Not because you didn’t put time or effort in, or that you weren’t capable; but because at the end of the day it was most likely meaningless good idea fairy bullshit to begin with.
How much did any of that ancillary work load you had actually accomplish anything truly useful within your unit? I am guessing very very little. Not because you didn’t put time or effort in, or that you weren’t capable; but because at the end of the day it was most likely meaningless good idea fairy bullshit to begin with.
Look up "Bull Ensign". When I was a brand new O1, part of my job was delivering the joke of the day. I was also in charge of social activities for my unit. I was also in charge of processing training and schools orders. I was also legal officer. I also had my division of a dozen corpsmen. Then I had to do my job. And doing my job was on top of my own PME and my own schools and my own community education.
I missed the simplicity of being a corpsman, just being a team member and taking care of the Marines.
Given the state of most “leadership” these days in the .mil I would first question the “leadership” on why they have an underperforming sailor. It’s their job to lead, develop, and motivate him. I’ve seen legit leaders put some effort into doing that and turn around a Marine or two that needed it. It is possible but it requires effort, and some room to work within reason.
Unfortunately todays .mil outside of special operations (that weeds out the underperforming to begin with) seems very focused on a lot of bullshit occupying the time of “leadership” to make things look good on the admin side more than the operational side. Throwing a bone to non flag rank officers, and staff NCO’s there’s a ton of literal shit on their plate that shouldn’t even exist taking time away from actually leading, guiding, motivating, and developing soldiers, sailors, and Marines.
Combine that with a zero defect culture and young officers in particular seem to be given no room to make decisions for fear of ending their career before it even starts if that decision was a mistake. That’s not a culture that allows younger leaders to grow and learn themselves, and here we are with leadership from top to bottom that is broken.
I agree completely, in my time I saw company commanders hesitate to make decisions because they didn’t want to risk getting in trouble but then get yelled at by the BC at every CUB for not doing their jobs. These same commanders would then turn around and micromanage their NCOs and do their jobs instead of their own. I unfortunately dealt with this a lot and told more than one of my commanders to just tell me what needs to be done and let me decide how it’s to be accomplished. Instead they would try and dictate to me how to do my job even after I told them that that was my responsibility.
Add on all the paperwork and online “training” bullshit that just sucks up all your time, on a typical home station drill weekend I would only see the men at first and final formations because I would be stuck in my office on the computer doing nonsense that someone deemed that it be important. So hard to be a good 1SG and build report with your men when they rarely see you.
In a way I’m glad I’m out so I don’t have to deal with all that headache anymore, but I do miss the time I was able to spend with the Joes out in the field.
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