View Full Version : Do you worry about people knowing you are carrying? (Printing)
Stopsign32v
10-06-22, 11:18
I used to care but now couldn't give 1 shit less. It used to bother me and I would look in the mirror to make sure I wasn't printing because I guess somehow I was worried I would get turned in? On the boards I read so much about "printing" that I guess it caused me to have concern.
But then I realized that "concealed" doesn't mean someone can't see the outline of my firearm, it just means they can't SEE my firearm. So now I just throw on a full size with a T shirt and say **** it. I can shoot a full size much much better than a little dinky micro pistol so that is what I'm worried about, how well I can put hits exactly where I want to if I need to.
Inkslinger
10-06-22, 11:21
Most people are so into their own world or on their phones. Nobody is noticing nothing.
robbins290
10-06-22, 11:22
I don't care while out in public. But at meetings, I do not print at all. Make sure I am not anyways. And thats only because there are ALOT of anti gun people in the construction business.
I don't normally. Living in north Phoenix, a lot of people carry guns. Open carry is common enough that I'll see someone doing it almost every day. No one cares here and the ones that do just deal with it.
That being said, i do have a J frame I pocket carry for tons I'm going somewhere that requires discretion.
As someone said above, people these days have a serious lack of SA and probably wouldn’t notice. I doubt they would even know what exactly they were seeing if a person were printing a firearm with a shirt.
crosseyedshooter
10-06-22, 12:55
I've come to learn that a major component to concealed carry is situational awareness and not getting into unnecessary situations in the first place. Part of situational awareness is understanding the environment I'll be in and adjusting accordingly. Heading into an anti-gun, Karen-filled, environment means I double check that my gun doesn't print.
"Normal" people aren't paying attention, true. But who might be?
If someone is deciding who to rob or who to shoot first it can go a couple ways.
They think that bulge / print is a gun and choose someone else, or they attack / shoot you first.
You also don't want attention from Karen, the Police or your employer. Any can mess up your day.
Discretion is normally the better angle.
Defaultmp3
10-06-22, 13:39
But then I realized that "concealed" doesn't mean someone can't see the outline of my firearm, it just means they can't SEE my firearm. So now I just throw on a full size with a T shirt and say **** it. I can shoot a full size much much better than a little dinky micro pistol so that is what I'm worried about, how well I can put hits exactly where I want to if I need to.Uh... you can conceal a full-sized pistol, too, without printing.
As noted, sure, most people won't notice. But who are you concealing against? As also noted, some criminals have good situational awareness and are quite attuned to the many tells that CCWers often exhibit. Or if you're carrying in an NPE that you go to daily (e.g., work environment), people are unlikely to notice for each individual event, but when you're interacting every day, even the tiniest tells will get picked up over time. People don't notice anything, until they do.
From an old TPI post that I think about still:
Convict,
Actually, I didn't get the sense that we were having a hostile disagreement at all. You tell me what works for you, I explain my perspective, we look and see what we can learn.
Perhaps I am not being specific enough, but here is my point. If you need to work day/in, day out in a business, business casual, or similar type of 'uniform', then I have never seen a setup that will work over time.
I've seen lots of things that will work for a day, or a visit, or a meeting. Yes, you can conceal a SIG in Hickey Freeman, Keswani custom suits, and a host of others. I've done them myself, and it's possible. But when you're going to do it every day, for years at a time, you will eventually be made.
[Maybe I should clarify: Are we perhaps talking past each other due to different definitions of an NPE? I am using the term NPE to mean you CANNOT get made or it will dramatically affect your life, livelihood and/or family. So the 'occasional' bust is unacceptable in what I call an NPE. To clarify - a museum visit with a 'No guns' sign is NOT an NPE; if I get made, I get escorted out - no big deal.]
So for me, guess what - any 'tuckable' holster that has a clip that I can see - is simply useless. If I work with someone for 6 months, and every day they see my clip at 1 o'clock, eventually they will ask. Or wonder. And someone in the office will recognize it and say, I know exactly what that is. From there, refer again to my definition of an NPE.
Todd, I understand what you're saying. However, this sentence here really caught my notice:
When I'm somewhere that has a particularly high penalty for getting caught with a gun, I've opted for something smaller (like a P30 or G19/G26) in SmartCarry.
That is the crux of the matter. The smaller you go, the more concealable it is.
Now if I'm I'm 'visiting' somewhere that has a high penalty, I can dress around it and it doesn't matter; I can hide anything for a day.
But when I'm not visiting, but I actually LIVE there? Then the little tells add up over the months and eventually you get busted. As for me, when I go with a belly-band setup, there are slight adjustments I need to make when I sit/rise, and that's with a PM9. If I try that with my SIG, those adjustments get noticeably more pronounced. And all it takes is 1 day, getting up quickly from a lunch meeting, or talking on the phone next to someone who is sitting at a desk with their face right at waist level,or spilling a drink in a cafe and they see a print, - once again, reread my definition of an NPE.
When you WORK in an office environment, people notice all idiosyncracies over time. The way Bob always lines up his pencils, the way Tom's right shoe always comes undone, the way Mary's bra strap always gets exposed when she wears that shirt, etc., And they BS and gossip about all that crap,the world over. So if you're the guy who always wears a coat - you're a freak and you'll get busted. If you always adjust your pants when you get up, but aren't a fatass - people will notice. If you have a clip on your belt, people will notice. If you have a really fancy, nice custom handmade belts, people will notice.
Finally, two anecdotes - because as we know, the plural of anecdote is data
One is from HH, I read it awhile back so I may be misquoting it. HH, please correct and clarify if I am mistaken. He was in a dress environment and the lady he was talking to suddenly asked him if he'd lost a lot of weight in the past. If I remember correctly, he was wearing pants that were custom made to allow him to CCW, and she noticed that the pants were cut slightly larger in the waist than elsewhere.
As for me, I worked in a major consulting firm. I made friends with the secretaries, and was listening to one of their conversations. They had determined which of the new hires had purchased custom suits, which ones were off-the-rack (but high-end) suits, and which ones were just very nice suits. And they were right.
People are generally clueless and unaware - until they're not.
I like to be as reasonably discrete as possible when carrying. I also prefer to carry pistols that have a full 4 finger grip and belt holster carry, either AIWB or IWB.When people go to Walmart or wherever, they don’t walk around and try to guess who’s carrying a pistol. I’d say here in Ohio 99.9 % of people could care less.
Stopsign32v
10-06-22, 14:49
This winter will be the first winter I've ever considered OWB. My go to holster has lately been Vedder IWB and this winter I'm going to give their OWB a try.
studenygreg
10-06-22, 15:45
Nope
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I've carried full size for the last two decades and the last decade I've open carried or not cared about printing if concealed. I've been in anti gun areas for meetings and not a word has been said and we usually get the work.
I live in a Detroit suburb so I should be dead according to all the experts/FUDDs, because as they say I'll be the first one killed. lol
No, not at all. I carry pretty much everywhere. Despite hospital 'rules', I carry under scrubs, in the OR, in Procedure rooms, and my office needless to say.
alcante262
10-06-22, 19:25
Yes I do,cause I would like it to be a complete surprise wheni have to deploy my weapon.
No, not at all. I carry pretty much everywhere. Despite hospital 'rules', I carry under scrubs, in the OR, in Procedure rooms, and my office needless to say.
It seems that your hospital has "no guns" rules. If you get made by someone who's anti, or has an axe to grind, or just a scared cat, it will go to the hospital administration. Depending on the politics and dynamics, you may not lose privileges or employment or both, depending what your specific deal is, but if I were to be a betting man, I'd bet that you'll be sent out of there pretty quickly. When you started to look for new place to work, you would need to disclose the reasons for loss of privileges. And even if you didn't, their credentialing and admin will do their due diligence and they will find out. I am pretty sure though that you could always find some rundown facility in a bum**** village that would be happy to hire any warm body, including a person with a hospital gun policy violation on their record.
Obviously, I am nobody to tell you what to do in your life but just posting stuff like this on an open forum makes me wonder if you thought all consequences through well enough.
I would only worry if I had to carry in a non-permissive environment. But, most people are so distracted and unaware that they wouldn't notice printing anyway. Moreover carrying a cellphone on the belt is common so most would think cell phone.
Now people like the ones who post here do notice and I have spotted poorly concealed pistols on many occasions.
bamashooter
10-07-22, 07:42
"Worry"? No. I do try to minimize printing. I rarely open carry but once in a while I do in my local rural community.
No, I take reasonable steps to conceal well, but after carrying for 10+ years, a slight print or whatnot is of zero concern.
Sure, there are situations to take things more seriously (professional meeting, specific events, etc) which I would / do take more diligence or carry a small weapon but those are by far the exception to the rule.
Summer I carry IWB and as of a couple of winters ago, OWB when it's cold out.
Nobody cares or notices.
I honestly couldn't care less. I think too many people get wrapped up in trying to find the smallest, most "concealable" gun ever, when in reality a dude could shove an Uzi in his pants and walk through Wal-Mart and few if any people would notice.
I don't worry about printing/being made.
Andy
Not at all.
I live in a moderately "gun friendly" State. Quite common for rural folks (ranchers primarily) to open carry, concealed carry is ubiquitous.
I have good quality gun belts/holsters- highly doubt anyone ever catches me "printing", and as said, could give a shit if they did- no ones looking anyhow, too immersed in their own little world.
Most people are so into their own world or on their phones. Nobody is noticing nothing.
+1 Just thinking about the number of people getting in to car accidents, getting assaulted and on video falling off or into something. #1 response is I never saw it/them/that as they are in condition clear unaware of anything at all.
I've surprised my across the street neighbor getting his mail or retrieving his garbage cans too many times to count. He walks down his driveway, head down into the street without looking and turns to grab cans or mail from mailbox. I say high and he jumps out of his skin. I could be a 20 foot bright yellow dragon breathing fire and he wouldn't know the difference.
It seems that your hospital has "no guns" rules. If you get made by someone who's anti, or has an axe to grind, or just a scared cat, it will go to the hospital administration. Depending on the politics and dynamics, you may not lose privileges or employment or both, depending what your specific deal is, but if I were to be a betting man, I'd bet that you'll be sent out of there pretty quickly. When you started to look for new place to work, you would need to disclose the reasons for loss of privileges. And even if you didn't, their credentialing and admin will do their due diligence and they will find out. I am pretty sure though that you could always find some rundown facility in a bum**** village that would be happy to hire any warm body, including a person with a hospital gun policy violation on their record.
Obviously, I am nobody to tell you what to do in your life but just posting stuff like this on an open forum makes me wonder if you thought all consequences through well enough.
The old cliche, concealed is concealed, actually works. Approximately 20+ years ago a surgical associate was shot to death in the adjacent hospital office building, and roughly 2-3 months after that a psychiatrist was shot in the icu while doing a consult, since then I've carried. Also, there are many physicians who carry, despite hospital rules. And, no, I have no worries about hospital privileges, as the administrator is a shooting buddy, and I rarely do any inpatient hospital work.
Uh... you can conceal a full-sized pistol, too, without printing.
As noted, sure, most people won't notice. But who are you concealing against? As also noted, some criminals have good situational awareness and are quite attuned to the many tells that CCWers often exhibit. Or if you're carrying in an NPE that you go to daily (e.g., work environment), people are unlikely to notice for each individual event, but when you're interacting every day, even the tiniest tells will get picked up over time. People don't notice anything, until they do.
From an old TPI post that I think about still:
Office people are ones to watch for. In my experience, they are generally small minded gossipers. Not to sound sexist but middle aged women, especially support staff, are the worst. And they notice details. Be very careful when carrying around those types.
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OutofBatt3ry
10-08-22, 17:35
I carried a G19 for years. Went to a G45 for the +2 and better grip with my large-ish hands, IWB. Recently added an OWB single mag carrier. Hides fine under a T-shirt. Average build. Nobody would be the wiser.
If you rock yoga pants and wear an Underarmour shirt, Maybe try a G43/P365.
I don't worry about it, i but I started carrying a RDS so it is a little more visible printing..but I would rather carry where I can than be unarmed....
I usually carry at the 1 or 2 o'clock position .....haven't gone appendix yet..
Situation dependent for me. One situation where I always make sure I am not showing an obvious print is if I'm going somewhere where someone might perceive me as a threat. The last thing I want to do is freak out some gas station employee on I-95 in the middle of the night because he thinks I'm there to rob the place.
The old cliche, concealed is concealed, actually works
Yes. It just doesn't jive with a prior "not at all" response to a question if you're worried about printing.
If I had an administrator buddy, I'd wanna know if he was willing to lose his job over this. Because that's what would happen if some bitch from OR snitched on you, the admin friend didn't do anything, and then said bitch would go after him and hospital with $$$ lawsuit for not assuring a "safe workplace".
When you break rules, you become a liability. I know of too many cases of people being fired on a single non-violent offense when hospitals thought that allowing those people to stay exposed hospitals to possible action.
But you've been doing this for 20 years, local environment seems conducive, so no prob. I've got nothing to add.
Adrenaline_6
10-10-22, 12:13
No.
The End.
Yes. I check to make sure that i print as little as possible while still being able to have a good draw each day before i leave the house. I am not worried about folks I may see once in the grocery store.
I try to make sure that those who would be inclined to notice don't notice.
I'd be curious to know if there's any data showing whether or not criminals target individuals who carry concealed or the flip side, avoid committing a crime because they've noticed someone is carrying concealed. If there is strong data showing that printing leads to a higher incidence of a carrier being targeted, then maybe one would take more pains to reduce the signature.
It's actually an argument against the idea that carrying a firearm reduces crime...if concealed carriers are targeted more frequently because they print occasionally then it'd make more sense to not carry.
Right now all it sounds like is a bunch of people who carry concealed are walking around ID'ing other carriers and tut-tutting them for being a target just because they know what to look for and noticed, but I've never seen any indication that criminals target carriers. I'm inclined to believe the opposite is true, that knowing someone might be carrying is a deterrent, especially if the carrier appears to be "switched on" and aware of their surroundings. I doubt there's any data, just a bunch of gun owners making up scenarios to justify whatever it is they're doing already (that never happens...).
donlapalma
10-12-22, 14:20
I've placed careful thought into my gun, holster, belt and clothing choices so I do not have to worry about being "made."
Inkslinger
10-12-22, 16:34
I'd be curious to know if there's any data showing whether or not criminals target individuals who carry concealed or the flip side, avoid committing a crime because they've noticed someone is carrying concealed. If there is strong data showing that printing leads to a higher incidence of a carrier being targeted, then maybe one would take more pains to reduce the signature.
It's actually an argument against the idea that carrying a firearm reduces crime...if concealed carriers are targeted more frequently because they print occasionally then it'd make more sense to not carry.
Right now all it sounds like is a bunch of people who carry concealed are walking around ID'ing other carriers and tut-tutting them for being a target just because they know what to look for and noticed, but I've never seen any indication that criminals target carriers. I'm inclined to believe the opposite is true, that knowing someone might be carrying is a deterrent, especially if the carrier appears to be "switched on" and aware of their surroundings. I doubt there's any data, just a bunch of gun owners making up scenarios to justify whatever it is they're doing already (that never happens...).
Just a wild guess on my part, but. I would imagine the overwhelming majority of criminals that are out to rob a place are more focused on the task at hand and trying to be successful, that the last thing they’re doing is looking for anything out of place on peoples clothing that would indicate a firearm.
It seems that your hospital has "no guns" rules. If you get made by someone who's anti, or has an axe to grind, or just a scared cat, it will go to the hospital administration. Depending on the politics and dynamics, you may not lose privileges or employment or both, depending what your specific deal is, but if I were to be a betting man, I'd bet that you'll be sent out of there pretty quickly. When you started to look for new place to work, you would need to disclose the reasons for loss of privileges. And even if you didn't, their credentialing and admin will do their due diligence and they will find out. I am pretty sure though that you could always find some rundown facility in a bum**** village that would be happy to hire any warm body, including a person with a hospital gun policy violation on their record.
Obviously, I am nobody to tell you what to do in your life but just posting stuff like this on an open forum makes me wonder if you thought all consequences through well enough.
Hospital are so short staffed right now & often weakly managed, I don't think will be an issue !!!
The Dumb Gun Collector
10-12-22, 18:06
No. I think people are pretty oblivious as long as it isn't crazy obvious. I have been "made" twice in about 30 years so everyone else either never noticed or didn't GAS.
Just a wild guess on my part, but. I would imagine the overwhelming majority of criminals that are out to rob a place are more focused on the task at hand and trying to be successful, that the last thing they’re doing is looking for anything out of place on peoples clothing that would indicate a firearm.
"Trying to be successful at the task at hand" includes scanning to see who may attempt to stop said task.
You basically just agreed the point.
Imagine yourself a robber, alone or with a crew, robbing a place with multiple people around. Of course you're going to consider who might be a problem and that person will get your attention to be "dealt with" first.
A lone, nervous, dumbass robber maybe not. But a guy or crew who think ahead a little will certainly consider the threats.
The US is on a downward path trying to catch up crime/stratification wise to places in South America. We have crews of 4 guys armed with rifles and shotguns carjacking folks or just protecting a guy cutting a catalytic converter off an automobile and not afraid to shoot it out. Every day, with a few gunfights a month.
If a robber takes a scan and thinks you might be a problem and sees a print guess who's getting covered with a muzzle / shaken down / shot first?
Most robbers aren't "scared" or intimidated because a potential victim / good samaritan has a gun. You're just playing poker with your cards faced out, that's all.
People who open carry HAVE been attacked and robbed of that gun many times. No debate about that.
Inkslinger
10-13-22, 07:51
"Trying to be successful at the task at hand" includes scanning to see who may attempt to stop said task.
You basically just agreed the point.
Imagine yourself a robber, alone or with a crew, robbing a place with multiple people around. Of course you're going to consider who might be a problem and that person will get your attention to be "dealt with" first.
A lone, nervous, dumbass robber maybe not. But a guy or crew who think ahead a little will certainly consider the threats.
The US is on a downward path trying to catch up crime/stratification wise to places in South America. We have crews of 4 guys armed with rifles and shotguns carjacking folks or just protecting a guy cutting a catalytic converter off an automobile and not afraid to shoot it out. Every day, with a few gunfights a month.
If a robber takes a scan and thinks you might be a problem and sees a print guess who's getting covered with a muzzle / shaken down / shot first?
Most robbers aren't "scared" or intimidated because a potential victim / good samaritan has a gun. You're just playing poker with your cards faced out, that's all.
People who open carry HAVE been attacked and robbed of that gun many times. No debate about that.
Think about what you said. Their scanning for threats would most likely be limited to security for the place they are attempting to rob. If they’re robbing a place that allows concealed carry, that would necessitate scanning every person in the building. That’s why we often see videos of people concealed carrying engaging criminals. Do you ever see video of a criminal taking out someone concealed carrying then continue on with their robbery?
ETA: This is a thread on concealed, not open carry.
Think about what you said. Their scanning for threats would most likely be limited to security for the place they are attempting to rob. If they’re robbing a place that allows concealed carry, that would necessitate scanning every person in the building. That’s why we often see videos of people concealed carrying engaging criminals. Do you ever see video of a criminal taking out someone concealed carrying then continue on with their robbery?
ETA: This is a thread on concealed, not open carry.
"Every person in the building" could be 300 in a club or just 3 in a shoe store. Obviously they wont be scanning a large number of people.
Taking out a defender then continuing with the robbery / car jacking? Sure that happens. Though they tend to wrap it up quickly and escape ASAP after shots are fired.
Much more to target selection decisions that the presence or absence of gun. Even among those that are armed, they may not be sufficiently aware or capable to be a problem. Look at all the open carriers that are easy pickings.
From an old TPI post that I think about still:
Do you recall the author of that post?
For me, printing is a big no-no in a large percentage of the situations I find myself in. Amongst close friends or at the range, it's obviously a non-issue. However, professionally, at church, or in just out in public or various functions, I follow the "concealed means concealed" precept. For the most part, I don't want anyone to know that I'm armed, nor for it to even enter their minds.
There are times, naturally, where I meet people of similar mindset and philosophy, and an unspoken understanding is passed between us with a look and an almost imperceptible nod. The rest of the time, I see zero upside to being made, and only downsides.
I used to carry full size pistols AIWB 30 years ago, G17, Beretta 92, p226 or 229. Now I carry a p365 xl, and will likely be getting the X Macro or perhaps its grip module and a couple mags for when clothing allows it.
Defaultmp3
10-13-22, 14:24
Do you recall the author of that post? His handle was GPM, don't know his real name. According to Craig Douglas, "he was a gunslinger in another life for almost ten years. A REAL gunslinger. Now he's a succesful high level business dude".
https://www.totalprotectioninteractive.com/forum/forum/main-category/the-codex/15778-living-in-the-npe-building-bruce-wayne?p=271838#post271838
I don't normally. Living in north Phoenix, a lot of people carry guns. Open carry is common enough that I'll see someone doing it almost every day. No one cares here and the ones that do just deal with it.
.
Same here. One day I was walking into a Dunking Donuts and some older lady with adult daughter and her daughter, she grabbed me in a panic and said "some guy in there is carrying gun". I said, Lady where are you from? Boston she replied, I laughed and quickly explained, so do I, it is the wild Wild West- your welcome.
I was in Scottsdale mall the other day with a super lightweight shirt, looked into a mirror while shopping with my wife, I may as well wore my 365 on a necklace. I just laughed at myself. I only worry if I enter a door that has NO GUNS sign on it, then it bothers me a bit. Otherwise eff it.
PB
I don't get too wrapped up in worrying about it, but it also depends on location. I carry in my bank and the post office, when I do I make sure my shit is squared away and no printing. When I'm in my place of business, out driving my commercial truck, or otherwise working in more liberal environments I don't worry about it.
I serve on a public board that handles business licensing topics. Meetings and testimony can be contentious at times. I determined that I could legally carry at these meetings and I'm damn sure armed now. This is a case where I work really hard at not printing and I think I'm successful. I sit next to a retired LEO, who sits to my right (holster side)and he's never said a word in two years. I've tried to see if he's armed and he either isn't or is really good at it as well.
I try to conceal as best I can. Only because I don't want a potential dirt bag to notice I am going to be a threat to them.
Adrenaline_6
10-18-22, 13:08
If your carrying and your wife or family members who know how you are "supposed" to look or look normally don't notice you printing. Guess what, strangers definitely won't notice.
The deeper you conceal, the slower the draw.
Choose according to your situation.
voiceofreason
10-31-22, 20:55
Situation dependent.
Stupid to be security for your church and be printing clearly telling the bad guys who is armed.
On the other hand, gnomming on a burger and sucking Coke through a straw it may not matter as much.
overall, most people aren't paying attention, but LE does notice.
No. I think people are pretty oblivious as long as it isn't crazy obvious. I have been "made" twice in about 30 years so everyone else either never noticed or didn't GAS.
Hell when I open carry I only get made about 50% of the time.
Funniest one was a female cop (off duty) at a friends b'day party in a park. I had been talking to her for about 15 minutes when she goes "I just noticed you have a gun on your belt...are you a cop?"
Some days I think I could carry an Uzi on a big chain around my neck like a rappers medallion and most still wouldn't notice.
I live in FL were open carrying except under very limited circumstances is an arrestable offense. Yeah, you bet I worry. Because there are numerous agencies and state attorneys that have no problem charging people for accidental exposures.
This is why FL needs full Constitutional Carry.
I don't worry because I dress for concealment; loose fit untucked shirt with pattern or print and Glock AIWB in holster with claw to help keep grip toward body.
One thing about AIWB is if I'm seated on a stool and somebody was looking to see if I was printing, they aint seeing nothing.
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