30-06 too big. suggestions?

[parishioner]

Im not sure if this is the right place for this, but does anyone know of a good 30-06 cartridge that will not do so much damage? I've shot two doe this season with my 30-06 and its just blowing enormous holes in them. I thought about maybe going to a .270 or .243 but I cant really afford one now. Im shooting winchester super-x power points. I cant remember the grain and the box is at my camp. Its either 150 or 180. Thanks.

[sjc3081]

Go to a 200 grain round nose, or a FMJ.

[Alpha Sierra]

Change ammo. Remington Core Lokt bullets tend to stay together instead of blowing up inside and are fairly affordable. I second the motion of going to the heaviest bullet weight you can find in 30-06 and if it is a blunt round nose, so much the better. A slower, heavier bullet will put deer down with authority without causing so much meat damage.

-1 on FMJ. Not only are they illegal for hunting in many states (yours could be one) but if the bullet does not fragment the chances of getting a clean, humane kill go down dramatically. Tracking wounded game sucks big time.

[SHIVAN]

Use the Managed-Recoil® rounds by Remington, less velocity and energy on target. Lighter bullet.

[parishioner]

I second the motion of going to the heaviest bullet weight you can find in 30-06 and if it is a blunt round nose, so much the better. A slower, heavier bullet will put deer down with authority without causing so much meat damage.

Your saying heavier and Shivan is saying lighter bullet??? I kind of understand of a lower velocity bullet wont do as much damage.

[SHIVAN]

I think they are saying heavier bullet to lower the velocity. I am saying use the Managed-Recoil® stuff, which is a combination of changes to the round that lowers the velocity of the round, lowers the bullet weight, and changes the bullet jacket to perform out to 200yds reliably at the lower velocity, but with much less recoil (therefore much less energy) than the same round with a full load. It only happens to come in the lighter 125gr bullet. 125gr will certainly kill a deer.

A full load 200gr soft point will probably still go right through.

[parishioner]

I think they are saying heavier bullet to lower the velocity. I am saying use the Managed-Recoil® stuff, which is a combination of changes to the round that lowers the velocity of the round, lowers the bullet weight, and changes the bullet jacket to perform out to 200yds reliably at the lower velocity, but with much less recoil (therefore much less energy) than the same round with a full load. It only happens to come in the lighter 125gr bullet. 125gr will certainly kill a deer.

A full load 200gr soft point will probably still go right through.

Ok gotcha. I think I will give the managed recoil a whirl. Have you had success with this?

[SHIVAN]

One of my friend's son has...

All he owns is 30-06's, and his son was 12 or 14, but small. He tried it and said it was "perfect" on both ends.

I took him at his word.

[parishioner]

Thanks Shivan!

[SHIVAN]

I'd suggest buying just one box and see if it's accurate enough in your gun first. Some guns hate really heavy, or really light, bullets...

I know my .308's will never group 110gr rounds very well. Not a single one likes it.

[Steve in PA]

Define "huge hole". Half dollar or big enough to put your fist in?

I have shot a lot of deer with my .30/06 and never had "huge holes". When I first started hunting I used Remington 180gr Core-Loks and after I started reloading 18 years ago I went to handloaded Hornady 165gr BTSP.

[Alpha Sierra]

A full load 200gr soft point will probably still go right through.

It sure will, and that is highly desirable from a tracking point of view as mist deer run for some distance when hit.

What it won't do is ruin meat like lighter, more explosive bullets.

[SHIVAN]

It sure will, and that is highly desirable from a tracking point of view as mist deer run for some distance when hit.

Your tone appears to assume that you are the only hunter here. :rolleyes:

My .308 puts deer down within 40yds of being shot.

At 300+ yds, my 150gr SST Hornady Light Mag dropped this antelope right down. Not a single step. You don't need to track them when you kill them "dead right there". :D

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/SHIVAN308/Stuff/1st-antelope.jpg

Only deer I've ever had to track was a doe I shot with a 75lb bow, and had lumber operations going on in the next hillside.

[sjc3081]

Here is a link of what a FMJ 7.62x39 bullet did to doe. Enough of this BS, FMJ rifle rounds will kill you fast.

www.warriortalk.com/showthread.php?t=49076

[hatt]

Here is a link of what a FMJ 7.62x39 bullet did to doe. Enough of this BS, FMJ rifle rounds will kill you fast.

www.warriortalk.com/showthread.php?t=49076

Look down a few posts on the page you linked. Apparently it isn't BS. I'm going to stick with premium hunting bullets and leave the guesswork up to others. After spending all the money on everything else you need to go hunting, skimping on ammo and risking losing an animal to poor bullet performance to save $5 is stupid.


As an aside, last year I shot a small doe with some .308 ball out of an FAL. Center-punched her from about 65 yards. She ran around and then stopped. I knew I had hit her good, but she looked more confused than hurt. Decided to hit her again. Second hit was a bit further back (second shot was from an awkward position); she ran off. No blood trail, zero, none. Couldn't even find where she was standing at the initial shot. Started casting about and found her about 40 yards from where she was at the second shot. Had to hunt for the bullet holes. Both shots left exit wounds but it was like she had been stabbed with an ice pick. No blood at all.

[Alpha Sierra]

Your tone appears to assume that you are the only hunter here. :rolleyes:

My .308 puts deer down within 40yds of being shot.

At 300+ yds, my 150gr SST Hornady Light Mag dropped this antelope right down. Not a single step. You don't need to track them when you kill them "dead right there". :D

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/SHIVAN308/Stuff/1st-antelope.jpg

Only deer I've ever had to track was a doe I shot with a 75lb bow, and had lumber operations going on in the next hillside.

I apologize. I do not have any idea of other people's knowledge of lack thereof.

I've had deer drop on the spot, and I have had to track mine (and my friends) for varying distances ranging from about 10 to about 80 yards. That's why I demand that my bullets pass through with good expansion. Cause you never know what reaction you will get.

My point was that bigger bullets do less meat damage while still killing efficiently. I think we can all agree with that.

[SHIVAN]

Counter to the effect we are trying to get for jman, if you shoot them directly in the shoulder with a quality round, you will usually drop most hooved animals right there.

Both front shoulders being blown out, as well as damage to both lungs (possible heart) usually takes the flight out of any thin-skinned, large game.

Problem being that you usually ruin a lot of meat from the shoulders. :mad:

[Alpha Sierra]

Yep, the dilemma of where to hit. I honestly rather track a bit if necessary and not ruin too much meat than send bone fragments going everywhere by blowing out the shoulder.

Just gotta pick the best option under each circumstance.

[parishioner]

Counter to the effect we are trying to get for jman, if you shoot them directly in the shoulder with a quality round, you will usually drop most hooved animals right there.

Both front shoulders being blown out, as well as damage to both lungs (possible heart) usually takes the flight out of any thin-skinned, large game.

Problem being that you usually ruin a lot of meat from the shoulders. :mad:

Wow. That is EXACTLY what has happend. You hit the nail on the head. Yea, I havent had to track these deer since they have fallen where they were shot. When I walked up to the last deer I killed, I lifted its front leg and made crunching noises and I could practically move it 360 degrees the shoulder was so messed up. So yes, I am ruining a lot of meat in the shoulders and Im going to try the managed recoil load from remington and if that doesnt work, I will move up to a much heavier bullet and give that a try. Thanks.

[shadowalker]

Also if you aren't already consider using a bonded bullet, either Accubond or Interbond or something like a Partition.

Bonded bullets hold together very well and don't explosively expand. They also expand reliably at low velocities.

FMJ might work but there are far better choices.

[Alpha Sierra]

Wow. That is EXACTLY what has happend. You hit the nail on the head. Yea, I havent had to track these deer since they have fallen where they were shot. When I walked up to the last deer I killed, I lifted its front leg and made crunching noises and I could practically move it 360 degrees the shoulder was so messed up. So yes, I am ruining a lot of meat in the shoulders and Im going to try the managed recoil load from remington and if that doesnt work, I will move up to a much heavier bullet and give that a try. Thanks.
If you aim for a spot directly up from the front leg and about 1/4 up from the belly you will hit the heart and lungs and at most just break a rib in along the way. Result: dead deer with much less meat loss.

[parishioner]

If you aim for a spot directly up from the front leg and about 1/4 up from the belly you will hit the heart and lungs and at most just break a rib in along the way. Result: dead deer with much less meat loss.

Yea, thats the idea but you know... it doesnt always happen that way. I have shot plenty deer in the spot when broadside but sometimes shots can be more difficult ie, time of day, position of animal, distance.

[snake doc]

Hope you guys don't mind my first post being a reply to this thread. I've been hunting with an '06 for 20yrs. And my Dad, a former Marine hunted with an '06 most of his adult life.

If you reload trying using 165gr Sierra hollow point boat tail bullets, with 56gr of ACURATE ARMS 4350 powder. I know what everyone is going to say "hollow points will blow up". Well I've dropped alot of deer with them and with great results. Exit wound is about the size of a quater to a half dollar.

My Dad did alot of experimenting over the years because of the same problem that you described. He tried bullets from 150gr to 220gr. Spitzer point, round nose, you name it he tried it.

Finally he called the a Ballastician at Sierra Bullets and he suggested one of their hollow point Game King bullets. Dad thought the same thing as most of you, but just the opposite happened. Less meat loss great terminal ballistics.

We generally shoot deer 2-3" BEHIND the front shoulder. Any bullet slamming directly into the shoulder bone will yield greater bullet expansion and fragmentation, resulting in larger wound channel and more meat loss.

I did not post this reply to get into an arguement with anyone, just trying to help a fellow hunter.

[parishioner]

Hope you guys don't mind my first post being a reply to this thread. I've been hunting with an '06 for 20yrs. And my Dad, a former Marine hunted with an '06 most of his adult life.

If you reload trying using 165gr Sierra hollow point boat tail bullets, with 56gr of ACURATE ARMS 4350 powder. I know what everyone is going to say "hollow points will blow up". Well I've dropped alot of deer with them and with great results. Exit wound is about the size of a quater to a half dollar.

My Dad did alot of experimenting over the years because of the same problem that you described. He tried bullets from 150gr to 220gr. Spitzer point, round nose, you name it he tried it.

Finally he called the a Ballastician at Sierra Bullets and he suggested one of their hollow point Game King bullets. Dad thought the same thing as most of you, but just the opposite happened. Less meat loss great terminal ballistics.

We generally shoot deer 2-3" BEHIND the front shoulder. Any bullet slamming directly into the shoulder bone will yield greater bullet expansion and fragmentation, resulting in larger wound channel and more meat loss.

I did not post this reply to get into an arguement with anyone, just trying to help a fellow hunter.

Cool post snake doc. That was interesting. The only problem is I havent dove into the world of reloading yet, but perhaps when I get older. As for shooting the deer behind the shoulder, yes, that is where I generally aim. They teach you that when you go to hunter eduation. I was just saying that due to various circumstances sometimes the bullet doesnt go where you hoped and it winds up striking the front shoulder. I know its not ideal but you know, it happens. Thanks for the info. I might save it and pull it out one day if I ever I get into reloading. Thanks snake doc!

[Dan Goodwin]

Jman, perhaps you can find someone you know whom does reload ammo.

There is an excellent article in the magazine-style 2009 Hodgdon reloading manual that's just out on newsstands.

It's about what the author calls "Moderate Effective Loads" for a bunch of different calibers. Basic premise is load a light for caliber Barnes TSX at a velocity 200-300 fps LESS than standard full power ammo.

The Barnes X bullets cut a decent wound channel all the way through the game (illustrated with a good kudu a lady zapped with a MEL .338 Federal load) but just about none of the listed loads offers more than 10-pounds of recoil...about like a .243!

Trajectory is more than adequate for 250 yard shooting.

My average shot on all big game for the past 20 years has been less than 50 yards, so I'm fixing to start loading MELs for all my usual hunting guns.

Failing that the aforementioned Remington Managed Recoil load will do a good job too.

[Aray]

What you describe may be shot placement and not bullet performance. When you shoot an animal in the front shoulder, it will usually drop, at the expense of usable meat in that and possibly the other shoulder.

A heart or lung shot may not cause the animal to fall in it's tracks, but assures a quick kill and ruins little if any meat, when avoiding the shoulder joint.

A bonded bullet like an Accubond or a solid bullet like the Barnes TSX will not fragment in most any situation, but will do extreme damage when impacting a shoulder, the bone fragments act like flechettes.

I discontinued use of Remington Core Locked due to jacket separation issues years ago.

I use Federal Premium Triple Shock .30-06 in my Win Model 70 and have had great success with (what I consider) proper shot placement.

On edit:

I should have looked for page 2, sorry to repeat the same thing as the previous posts.

[achildofthesky]

I agree with te post about the Rem green box corelokts being a decent, serviceable low cost round. My first rifle was a 30-06 when I was 12 and I got a reloading kit for my 12th xmas and have loaded a lot of different stuff for the old '06. Currently I am using a Speer 165 gr PSP over 54 or 55gr of IMR 4350 (a moderate load in a 18" barrel), win or rem brass Rem 9 1/2 primers, Lee dies. This years rifle was a Rem 7600 plastic fantastic carbine (18" barrel).

Next year I will switch to Barnes 130gr ttsx at reasonable speeds (not max velocity) to eliminate the lead "spray/dusting" in the meat. The Speer bullets I have now were bought because of the price point not because I thought they were great. I currently have several 130 GR bullets in my reloading den as well as 165's and 180s. Backup rifle will be a 30-30 with barnes 150 FP's loaded to modest velocities.

Patty

[Buck]

Change ammo. Remington Core Lokt bullets tend to stay together instead of blowing up inside and are fairly affordable. I second the motion of going to the heaviest bullet weight you can find in 30-06 and if it is a blunt round nose, so much the better. A slower, heavier bullet will put deer down with authority without causing so much meat damage.

-1 on FMJ. Not only are they illegal for hunting in many states (yours could be one) but if the bullet does not fragment the chances of getting a clean, humane kill go down dramatically. Tracking wounded game sucks big time.

What he said...

http://www.midwayusa.com/midwayusa/staticpages/highres/167224.jpg

B

[RyanB]

If you shoot for the lungs you will get less spalling off the ribs than off the shoulders. I consider shoulder meat to be for the grinder anyway, so I just punch them in the shoulder and watch them kick and die. YMMV.

[achildofthesky]

To anchor the bambi, to prevent having to do a protracted tracking job and save a lot of the shoulde meat. Still you will get a great deal of hydrostatic shock damage and gelling of the vitals.

Patty

[DocGKR]

.30-06 is fine, just pick a non-fragmenting load and you will do well: ATK Trophy Bonded Bear Claw, Barnes TSX, Nosler Accubond, Nosler Partition, Remington Core-Lokt, Speer Gold Dot, Swift Scirrocco, etc...