View Full Version : UPS has dropped the other shoe
UPS has dropped the other shoe. Not only can individuals no longer use UPS' services to legally ship firearms, but now licensed dealers, manufacturers, and collectors who contract with and ship via UPS must allow UPS unlimited access to their "books and records relevant to the products being shipped". These "contractors" must also provide UPS with any invoices for any firearms related products, as well as develop and implement a compliance training program for employees.
https://www.ammoland.com/2022/10/new-ups-policy-requires-unlimited-access-to-firearms-shippers-books/#axzz7i1dHndLm
https://youtu.be/XfwZ4MIn42o
Armed Attorney's take:
https://youtu.be/17TRO52zChM
john armond
10-18-22, 08:08
Which politicians are behind the scenes offering what to UPS to implement these changes?
From Armed Attorneys YT channel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17TRO52zChM
This is just one more reason that the election MUST matter.
If the Republicans lose we all will lose. If the Republicans win, we must grab them all and remove their shoes and hold their bear feet over a hot fire.
So do UPS and Paypal share the same lawyers?
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-18-22, 12:33
So everytime some dumbass decides to send some buddies pot ‘behind the lines’ the CEO, the distribution center manager, the drivers on each end have to be charged with RICO charges for drug trafficking. If they are not going to be a ‘common carrier’ that just moves stuff, and are saying that they have an interest- outside of material safety handling concerns- then they are on the line for EVERYTHING that they ship.
Desantis and Abbott need to start hearings. Fed-ex uses Memphis, what is UPS major hub? Do they do that or is it more distributed?
If they are not going to be a ‘common carrier’ that just moves stuff, and are saying that they have an interest- outside of material safety handling concerns- then they are on the line for EVERYTHING that they ship.
They can't have it both ways. If they are pushing for responsibility, they lose their protection. The war on drugs just became the war on UPS....
So everytime some dumbass decides to send some buddies pot ‘behind the lines’ the CEO, the distribution center manager, the drivers on each end have to be charged with RICO charges for drug trafficking. If they are not going to be a ‘common carrier’ that just moves stuff, and are saying that they have an interest- outside of material safety handling concerns- then they are on the line for EVERYTHING that they ship.
Desantis and Abbott need to start hearings. Fed-ex uses Memphis, what is UPS major hub? Do they do that or is it more distributed?
That's basically the issue with YouTube and others getting the protections of a public forum while operating with the control of a publisher.
In addition to the public subsidies they collect issue.
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-18-22, 17:20
They can't have it both ways. If they are pushing for responsibility, they lose their protection. The war on drugs just became the war on UPS....
And kiddie porn…
And defective products…
And jewelry that has high lead content…
And for counterfeit goods that they ship…
Why just guns?
I have not received notification of this from UPS and still shipping firearms. Also receiving firearms, most of which are shipped by UPS.
So sounds like this only prohibits private individuals from shipping firearms and they must now ship through a FFL. If UPS wants to confirm my status, they can see my FFL, they ain't looking at my books.
Reason # 4,087 why we need to get rid of the 1968 GCA in it's entirety. All of your BS traces back to that.
So USPS your best option now?
Heavyweight
10-19-22, 10:16
So USPS your best option now?Only for long guns. Can't ship handguns via USPS.
This is unbelievable. So now I can't even send my firearm to the manufacturer for warranty work. I have to go through an FFL? The gun community needs to file suit against all the common carriers immediately.
Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
Perfect. Literally supposed to be overnighting a pistol today to an FFL. Wonder if I just, maybe, dont say anything and do it anyway.
MC_Oper8or
10-19-22, 23:01
Time for an entrepreneur to start a shipping company
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1_click_off
10-20-22, 07:45
They have to finish shipping the M16’s first…. I don’t know if that was the carrier or not, but for real. Couple wins a military auction of gun cases and….. they forgot to remove the weapons!!!!
https://www.kktv.com/2022/09/27/box-m16-weapons-shipped-couples-home/?outputType=amp
Perfect. Literally supposed to be overnighting a pistol today to an FFL. Wonder if I just, maybe, dont say anything and do it anyway.
FWIW, apparently that's a felony... if you get caught.
I went to my FFL, what a PITA though.
Heavyweight
10-20-22, 11:35
I went to my FFL, what a PITA though.It ain't right....that's for sure.
I know that it's a federal offense if you get caught trying to mail a pistol via USPS. But there isn't any such statute to my knowledge with the common carriers. Wouldn't it just be a violation of their internal policy? I'm not suggesting anyone do anything illegal but just wondering what UPS could really do if you got caught mailing an undisclosed firearm. I mean Jesus.....UPS is probably already the biggest drug dealer in the US....why don't they crack down on that instead of honest citizens mailing firearms for legal purposes.
Heavyweight
Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
Only for long guns. Can't ship handguns via USPS.
This is unbelievable. So now I can't even send my firearm to the manufacturer for warranty work. I have to go through an FFL? The gun community needs to file suit against all the common carriers immediately.
Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
I can see marrit for a suit against USPS. As it is a public service. However, unfortunately UPS, FEDEX, and others are private businesses. Therefore wouldn't it be thrown out. As their business their rules?
titsonritz
10-20-22, 12:10
Only for long guns. Can't ship handguns via USPS.
This is unbelievable. So now I can't even send my firearm to the manufacturer for warranty work. I have to go through an FFL? The gun community needs to file suit against all the common carriers immediately.
Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
No, what needs to happen is for someone start a carrier business that is more interested in business then woke cunt bullshit and steal all the business they can from the ****ers and hopefully drive them out of business or clue them in on changing their course.
FWIW, apparently that's a felony... if you get caught.It's worth watching the video posted earlier by the two lawyers as they cover this specific issue.
This needs to be fought... The common carriers are letting huge amounts of dangerous illegal drugs being shipped and they're not doing crazy stuff on that.
This is not in my expertise wheel house so excuse a dumb question. Is there any way this could be construed as interference with interstate commerce?
If you ship a gun to a manufacturer for warranty work, let’s say a handgun to Beretta USA, could you just identify the item shipped as “machined parts” with an appropriate value and have it get there and back OK?
This is not in my expertise wheel house so excuse a dumb question. Is there any way this could be construed as interference with interstate commerce?
If you ship a gun to a manufacturer for warranty work, let’s say a handgun to Beretta USA, could you just identify the item shipped as “machined parts” with an appropriate value and have it get there and back OK?
Problem is, UPS would have grounds to confiscate it if you got caught.
Almost 20 years ago when I did a Colt Group Buy, the merchant service account I was using decided to change their policies regarding firearms without ever notifying me. When they discovered the payments were for Colt rifles they locked up about $60,000 in charges and it cost me 6% just to make sure everyone got their money back. Took almost 2 months to make sure everybody got refunded and initially they wanted to charge my customers 3% just to get refunded.
So in 2004 I had to lose $3,600 just so the company I paid to process credit cards for me didn't rob my customers. The only thing that saved my ass is almost everyone involved understood the situation and patiently waited for me to put up with all the BS from my merchant account and trust that I would get it done. If a single person had begun a charge back they were prepared to lock up everything for 6 months and fine me for every dispute.
Around the same time they pulled the same shit with CDNN but I think the amount was only about 25,000.
In the meantime most concluded things with payment via personal check. That was the day I stopped accepting credit cards. Not sure what is gonna be the solution to UPS, I'm not gonna give them access to my books or customer info so eventually I'm not gonna have a UPS account.
FedEx is absolute garbage and DHL is even worse. Thankfully as a FFL I can ship handguns via USPS so as much as I hate dealing with the USPS I guess that is what I'm doing.
For non FFLs, it sounds like the days of shipping to yourself just came to an end.
I can see marrit for a suit against USPS. As it is a public service. However, unfortunately UPS, FEDEX, and others are private businesses. Therefore wouldn't it be thrown out. As their business their rules?
When a "private" business starts acting the asshole, this is a common characteristic.
https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/united-parcel-service
OutofBatt3ry
10-20-22, 22:26
Problem is, UPS would have grounds to confiscate it if you got caught.
Almost 20 years ago when I did a Colt Group Buy, the merchant service account I was using decided to change their policies regarding firearms without ever notifying me. When they discovered the payments were for Colt rifles they locked up about $60,000 in charges and it cost me 6% just to make sure everyone got their money back. Took almost 2 months to make sure everybody got refunded and initially they wanted to charge my customers 3% just to get refunded.
So in 2004 I had to lose $3,600 just so the company I paid to process credit cards for me didn't rob my customers. The only thing that saved my ass is almost everyone involved understood the situation and patiently waited for me to put up with all the BS from my merchant account and trust that I would get it done. If a single person had begun a charge back they were prepared to lock up everything for 6 months and fine me for every dispute.
Around the same time they pulled the same shit with CDNN but I think the amount was only about 25,000.
In the meantime most concluded things with payment via personal check. That was the day I stopped accepting credit cards. Not sure what is gonna be the solution to UPS, I'm not gonna give them access to my books or customer info so eventually I'm not gonna have a UPS account.
FedEx is absolute garbage and DHL is even worse. Thankfully as a FFL I can ship handguns via USPS so as much as I hate dealing with the USPS I guess that is what I'm doing.
For non FFLs, it sounds like the days of shipping to yourself just came to an end.
This is crazy. Legit FFL's get the majority of their inventory from out of state. God help me if I can only buy stuff made in my state; delivered by a Hotshot service from manufacture/wholesaler, to FFL. I suppose when you realize the final goal of all this, it makes sense.
Bodhisattva05X
10-21-22, 00:21
Just shipped a shotgun on Monday for warranty repair. They emailed me the label and it was via UPS, so it must not be in effect yet.
Problem is, UPS would have grounds to confiscate it if you got caught.
For non FFLs, it sounds like the days of shipping to yourself just came to an end.
Seems like felony theft to me and again, how is this not interference with interstate commerce? Where are the NRA, NSSF, GOA etc. on this? What's it going to take for law abiding Americans to say enough of this economic embargo of constitutional rights? :(
When a "private" business starts acting the asshole, this is a common characteristic.
https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/united-parcel-service
WOW. That's an eye opening piece of data. I'm shocked that so much more came from states than the feds. Fortunately my state isn't on that list I guess? I see some strongly pro-2A states on that list. Seems like some hard leaning on them might cause a reaction? I wonder what might happen if say, commercial transport vehicle inspections and safety citations suddenly increased ten-fold near all their hubs and facilities? Just sayin... :stop:
titsonritz
11-30-22, 15:49
A letter from 18 State Attorneys Generals putting UPS and FedEx on notice they are eyeballing them and have concerns with their on going anti-2A practices and potential collusion with alphabet soup agencies. Let's see where this goes.
https://content.govdelivery.com/attachments/MTAG/2022/11/29/file_attachments/2340501/11.29.2022_UPS-FedEx-letters.pdf
I had to ship a suppressor back to the manufacturer for some warranty work… and they recommended UPS. Go to the local UPS hub, which has always had a customer center open for like an hour each weekday. Seriously… 4:00 to 5:15. Used to be just 4:00 to 5:00. [emoji849]
Get there as the truck pulls up to check the dropbox. I ask if they are open because the lights were off. “No, they called the girl on 10/30, saying 10/31 was her last day.” Big sign on the door saying it has closed… and to take labeled items to a local place in town. I’m done with UPS for now. Might start doing labels myself and taking to work for them to pickup. Went to USPS… sent Priority.
For the book stuff, I’ll review it… but I’ve yet to get a link on how to sign up for what they require to do to ship firearms. I have a FFL-03, so I really would only use it for personal firearms or stuff I’m selling (most being modern firearms, but they don’t specify that it must be C&R stuff only).
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