View Full Version : "Would you rather carry this pocket gun or this pocket gun?" .45 vs .25 edition
Would you rather carry a Bond Arms double-barrel derringer in .45 acp (your choice of barrel length) (single-action gun mind you)
Or a DA / SA Beretta .25 acp 8+1 M21A?
Assume you are well-practiced with them. 9 fast shots of .25 vs. 2 slow shots of .45 acp.
Or, a knife in that pocket instead.
SomeOtherGuy
10-22-22, 14:28
.25 ACP is below my threshold for anything. Would prefer a .22 LR over that 100% of the time.
Until recently would have chosen the 2-shot .45 ACP, but recently read about a case where an older guy was attacked by a pitbull in a public park, shot it twice with his derringer (it was .45, unsure whether ACP, long Colt, or the .410 shotshell abomination) with no effect, reloaded and shot it two more times, and the dog was not seriously injured despite being hit. The man was hospitalized with severe bite injuries. I believe the dog was euthanized but easily could have been healed. YMMV, etc.
With the current range of tiny, lightweight options in 9x19, I don't see any reason to pick either of these compromises. And smaller options still in .380 ACP if the mighty Ruger LC9 is too big for you.
Both are crap. Ruger SP101.
Both are crap. Ruger SP101.
Both are quality, really.
Crappy weapons? Yea.
Sp101 way too heavy to pocket and walk and not look like you have a gun in your pocket.
.25 ACP is below my threshold for anything. Would prefer a .22 LR over that 100% of the time.
Until recently would have chosen the 2-shot .45 ACP, but recently read about a case where an older guy was attacked by a pitbull in a public park, shot it twice with his derringer (it was .45, unsure whether ACP, long Colt, or the .410 shotshell abomination) with no effect, reloaded and shot it two more times, and the dog was not seriously injured despite being hit. The man was hospitalized with severe bite injuries. I believe the dog was euthanized but easily could have been healed. YMMV, etc.
With the current range of tiny, lightweight options in 9x19, I don't see any reason to pick either of these compromises. And smaller options still in .380 ACP if the mighty Ruger LC9 is too big for you.
Damn that's quite a story! Sucks.
Rimfire sucks! Heeled lead bullets suck. Full-rimmed ammo in a semi auto sucks.
.25 > .22 in a pocket gun.
On the occasions the Beretta rides in a pocket I carry two extra mags on my belt. :p:ph34r:
Both are quality, really.
Crappy weapons? Yea.
Sp101 way too heavy to pocket and walk and not look like you have a gun in your pocket.
Bond is serious crap. And you'll have to forgive me but I spent almost a decade sitting in an archive reading shooting reports and I don't think I ever read one where a .25 effectively stopped anyone or anything so I have a very negative opinion of the round.
As for the SP101, what kind of pocket carry are you talking about? Front pocket, back pocket? I carried one in a jacket pocket lots of times.
gunnerblue
10-22-22, 18:39
Would you rather carry a Bond Arms double-barrel derringer in .45 acp (your choice of barrel length) (single-action gun mind you)
Or a DA / SA Beretta .25 acp 8+1 M21A?
Assume you are well-practiced with them. 9 fast shots of .25 vs. 2 slow shots of .45 acp.
Or, a knife in that pocket instead.
Do you mean a one of these guns or a knife in addition to another, primary, CCW? If so, I'd take a knife as it is more versatile.
Between these two options as a primary, neither. In this day in age, it makes no sense to me to go below a micro 9mm or J-frame. A possible exception could be a .380 if the absolute smallest footprint was needed.
What happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object?
Some questions just don't work out well.
Bond is serious crap. And you'll have to forgive me but I spent almost a decade sitting in an archive reading shooting reports and I don't think I ever read one where a .25 effectively stopped anyone or anything so I have a very negative opinion of the round.
As for the SP101, what kind of pocket carry are you talking about? Front pocket, back pocket? I carried one in a jacket pocket lots of times.
Front pocket. I have an LCR that's a little big and heavy but can work for some things but sometimes the Beretta is better.(Easy jog, working on a car, and places I need to be discreet)
Do you mean a one of these guns or a knife in addition to another, primary, CCW? If so, I'd take a knife as it is more versatile.
Between these two options as a primary, neither. In this day in age, it makes no sense to me to go below a micro 9mm or J-frame. A possible exception could be a .380 if the absolute smallest footprint was needed.
I agree about a knife making more sense than s 2nd gun and I often do that along with OC.
But, yea, I mean by themselves. Although I probably could do the knife, too.
And you'll have to forgive me but I spent almost a decade sitting in an archive reading shooting reports and I don't think I ever read one where a .25 effectively stopped anyone or anything so I have a very negative opinion of the round.
Aside from screwing it into the eye socket of an individual, it is of dubious value, aside from pissing off your enemy.
In this day if I'm "unarmed" it's with a 340PD. If fits in khaki shorts in the front pocket. That's along with a speed strip is my minimum.
titsonritz
10-22-22, 19:51
S&W 442 in pocket daily.
Front pocket. I have an LCR that's a little big and heavy but can work for some things but sometimes the Beretta is better.(Easy jog, working on a car, and places I need to be discreet)
Long pants? If so go to back pocket carry, front pocket carry is not terribly ideal...especially if you need it with little warning. I would also second the recommendation for exploring a LCP before going with a .25 auto.
Also just noticed you are in Florida so carry option are shitty and shittier. One of the reasons I left.
Long pants? If so go to back pocket carry, front pocket carry is not terribly ideal...especially if you need it with little warning. I would also second the recommendation for exploring a LCP before going with a .25 auto.
Also just noticed you are in Florida so carry option are shitty and shittier. One of the reasons I left.
Yea, pocket carry is the slowest draw. Unless you have warning enough to start with your hand on it. Then it's the fastest.
I've tried many pocket guns. My favorite is the Beretta M21 and unfortunately it's a .25 acp.
Perhaps when I'm only carrying a pocket gun it should be the LCR. But it's wider and doesn't conceal as well as the Bond or Beretta.
When not pocket carrying I've been toting an M92XG Centurion ISWB.
I have een in places where if by magic a "quality" 22 would have appeared in my hand I would have been very happy. But since I only had my brain and training to solve the issue, and I am still here maybe I was better off unarmed.
SomeOtherGuy
10-22-22, 22:14
Sp101 way too heavy to pocket and walk and not look like you have a gun in your pocket.
At one time a 2.25" SP101 in .357 was my compact carry choice. Gave it up before long due to the size, weight, and measly 5 shots. Best thing I can say is that it was pretty for a "pocket" revolver, and its weight allowed shooting decently powerful .357 Magnum loads without pain. But if you can carry an SP101 you can instead carry a Glock 19, as well as anything smaller.
Rimfire sucks! Heeled lead bullets suck. Full-rimmed ammo in a semi auto sucks.
.25 > .22 in a pocket gun.
Just to be clear I don't carry .22 LR, it's strictly paper punching for me. The LC9 and similar guns are quite small and light and strike a good balance between easy to carry and enough gun to actually be useful if someone is trying to kill you. The LCP and equivalent is smaller and lighter yet, and for me the lowest I'd go on the rung before deciding it's not worth carrying. An LCP would be easy to carry in your sock, underwear, or most pockets, much less any normal holster.
I've read enough to know that .22 LR is sometimes deadly, and .454 Casull is sometimes not enough if the attacker is high on drugs and your shot placement is other than flawless CNS. But the 9x19/9x17 options seem to strike the balance between likely to have some effect and useful in a really small format pistol.
Found the article describing the attack I first mentioned:
https://www.mlive.com/news/saginaw-bay-city/2022/10/dog-survives-being-shot-4-times-after-allegedly-attacking-man-near-bay-county-park.html
Dog survives being shot 4 times after allegedly attacking man near Bay County park
Pictures of derringer and dog in the link. It was a 45/410 so the guy may have been using .410 shotshells, but regardless it doesn't inspire any confidence.
ThirdWatcher
10-23-22, 01:02
S&W 442 in pocket daily.
This. I carry mine in an OWB pancake holster though (every time I exit my house).
I think the funniest shooting I've ever been to was with a .25. Arrive first, car door open with packets of dope scattered about, blood everywhere. I follow the blood trail up the sidewalk and to the apartment in which the door is open. The victim is sitting on the couch with an ice pack on his head. When I asked him who shot him his first response was "Man, my head hurts!" Guy was smacked three times in the head at close range, obviously bled like hell. He actually laughed after I did to his response. I fully expected to find a dead body at the end of that trail, there was a lot of blood.
While I'm not a fan of small guns in general I find that my kimber solo is easy to grab and toss in my pocket when walking the dog. Seems like middle ground between your two choices. Decent 9mm caliber and decent 6+1 capacity in an ecer so slightly larger size than the Beretta.
At one time a 2.25" SP101 in .357 was my compact carry choice. Gave it up before long due to the size, weight, and measly 5 shots. Best thing I can say is that it was pretty for a "pocket" revolver, and its weight allowed shooting decently powerful .357 Magnum loads without pain. But if you can carry an SP101 you can instead carry a Glock 19, as well as anything smaller.
Just to be clear I don't carry .22 LR, it's strictly paper punching for me. The LC9 and similar guns are quite small and light and strike a good balance between easy to carry and enough gun to actually be useful if someone is trying to kill you. The LCP and equivalent is smaller and lighter yet, and for me the lowest I'd go on the rung before deciding it's not worth carrying. An LCP would be easy to carry in your sock, underwear, or most pockets, much less any normal holster.
I've read enough to know that .22 LR is sometimes deadly, and .454 Casull is sometimes not enough if the attacker is high on drugs and your shot placement is other than flawless CNS. But the 9x19/9x17 options seem to strike the balance between likely to have some effect and useful in a really small format pistol.
Found the article describing the attack I first mentioned:
https://www.mlive.com/news/saginaw-bay-city/2022/10/dog-survives-being-shot-4-times-after-allegedly-attacking-man-near-bay-county-park.html
Pictures of derringer and dog in the link. It was a 45/410 so the guy may have been using .410 shotshells, but regardless it doesn't inspire any confidence.
I've owned and carried Sp-101's, too. Pleasant with .38, tolerable for a bit with mild-ish .357. I have a Bond .357 2.5 in and it recoils the same even though its 6 oz lighter. I do find it fun to fire and might get a 4.25 in .45 acp barrel for it.
.410 stinks from a handgun and .45 Colt stinks from a .410 chamber. They commonly keyhole as do .410 slugs which end up at +p .38 velocity (@125 gr slug) from them. I'm still surprised that dog survived. Looks like it was hit square on the head, too.
Would a 9-shot .25 and extra mags worked better? Maybe. I'd bet money pepper spray would have worked better than either.
Given only those two choices?
I'll skip em both and carry a few rocks in my pocket.
OK not really, but both are terrible choices. There are 9mm (and .380 which is at least better than .25) options with similar footprints that I would choose first.
SomeOtherGuy
10-23-22, 09:16
Would a 9-shot .25 and extra mags worked better? Maybe. I'd bet money pepper spray would have worked better than either.
I doubt that dog would have been affected by .25 ACP given the report and the photo. Obviously we don't have every fact of the story.
+1 on pepper spray. I consider the two pistol options in the poll worthless, and carrying a pistol brings a variety of legal issues to consider. If you're going to carry a pistol, have something at least useful. If it's not useful, skip it and go with pepper spray and/or running shoes.
I agree with all the above. My Sig P365 with 12+1 is a lot of confidence in a small package.
I agree with all the above. My Sig P365 with 12+1 is a lot of confidence in a small package.
You have big pockets.
Inkslinger
10-23-22, 12:50
I think the funniest shooting I've ever been to was with a .25. Arrive first, car door open with packets of dope scattered about, blood everywhere. I follow the blood trail up the sidewalk and to the apartment in which the door is open. The victim is sitting on the couch with an ice pack on his head. When I asked him who shot him his first response was "Man, my head hurts!" Guy was smacked three times in the head at close range, obviously bled like hell. He actually laughed after I did to his response. I fully expected to find a dead body at the end of that trail, there was a lot of blood.
Not my story, but JoeR told a similar story in one of his classes. In the shooting he responded to, I believe it was a .357 that caved in the forehead of an individual that was alive, sitting on the curb smoking a cigarette.
Now to pop the bubble-seen some .45's to the head also, both lived. One was one to the forehead, other 7-all of those were in a neat ball under the skin in the back. A point blank 55 grain TRU to the eyeball, lived. Of course, these were angular but you get the point.
Dog, a couple here=pitbull, 9mm 127+p+ to the head, bang/flop/dead. Rotty, 3 to the chest and he was running around leaking, lucky he settled down so AC could get him to the vet in time before leaking out, but he could've done some damage for an hour which he didn't which means he didn't need to be shot. The pitbull was a menace and needed to be.
If I need something micro. I will carry a P365.
Heavyweight
10-23-22, 14:58
You have big pockets.Not really.....Wrangler jeans work fine on the P365....but I do carry the smallest iteration.
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The_War_Wagon
10-23-22, 15:05
Either my Star Firestar M45 or my Kimber Ultra Covert II, thank you very much!
The Bond weighs 19 ounces. The original M&P Shield is less than 21 ounces. I know what I would carry. Sell those 2 and get a Shield.
The .25 ACP is legendary for its terrible penetration, not to mention it's stopping ability.
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Not really.....Wrangler jeans work fine on the P365....but I do carry the smallest iteration.
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Good grief, man!
How long does it take to draw that pistol at a startle-response crouch? :eek:
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