View Full Version : Need Help on a 10 mm ..... Bear issues
I spend time up in the NC foothills and recently , we`ve been having some issues with black bear coming up on people`s decks , front porches etc . Coyotes are also beginning to be a problem with them coming up on decks and porches .... seems they have lost all fear of humans . This is a very rural area with the closet town 20 miles away and a whopping 4200 population , just what we wanted .
However , I have to take the dog out at night before bedtime and really would not wnat to surprise one , but it can happen . Not looking to hunt the bears/coyotes , just want something to stop them if I have to . I`m not looking for trouble , but want to have something to stop them if we can`t get away . Dog is a 100 lb Dobeman who thinks he`s invincible , but we all know better than that ..... also , he`s always on a leash at night and never left alone outside anytime .
I`m familiar with the Glock 10mm , but wondering if there is anything else out there I should consider .
So , you guys that have the 10`s , I`d like to know some pros and cons on what you use ..... all my stuff is either 9mm or .45 ..... thanks
El Vaquero
11-21-22, 22:22
There was another bear thread not too long ago. It contained a link to a webpage which listed and tracked bear shootings where a pistol was involved. I think they listed around 100 shootings involving just pistols. These involved shootings of both black and brown bear. If memory serves correct, it didn’t matter too much the caliber. Shot placement and ammo type I think played larger roles. They counted it a win if the pistol killed the bear or caused it to cease the attack and flee.
It left me with the feeling of carrying anything I can shoot accurately. And to use FMJ as opposed to hollow points. I would feel ok carrying a high capacity 9mm against black bear. Brown bear maybe not so much. Even with a red dot. Haha. Brown bears scare me.
Have you considered just picking a deep penetrating load for a pistol you are already proficient with? I live in an area with lots of black bear and don’t own any special bear gun.
For around a house I would much prefer keeping a long gun handy.
Have you considered just picking a deep penetrating load for a pistol you are already proficient with? I live in an area with lots of black bear and don’t own any special bear gun.
For around a house I would much prefer keeping a long gun handy.
A friend forwarded this article to me and I found it quite interesting. I''m not claiming it's exhaustive or any kind of definitive proof of what caliber to use. I plan on adding a 10mm to my collection in the near future. But there is some wisdom in your suggestion I think
https://www.ammoland.com/2018/02/defense-against-bears-with-pistols-97-success-rate-37-incidents-by-caliber/#axzz5OS0pKc1O
Buffalo Bore makes an ammo line called outdoorsman. It's a bullet designed to be used in common pistol calibers (9mm, 45, 40) against animals. If you google it, there are several stories where guides have used the round on bears. Hope this helps.
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=388
I think based on your location, your problem is black bears.
I have a friend from the old days, that hunted black bears with his 1911. He handloaded some hard cast bullets and was good to go.
I think a good 10mm round like Leighi Defense penetrator from Underwood would do very well. I would have zero issues with carrying my 357sig and just switch from extreme defenders to extreme penetrators.
I now have black bear in my area (northern lower peninsula MI) and I originally planned on buying a 10mm. There are plenty of options, but the G20 seemed to be the best option (G40 mos if you want a RDO and long slide).
After more research though, it made more sense to me to just buy ammo for the 9mm I already carry made specifically for things like bear. So I purchased a few boxes of Underwood hard cast 9mm. It is loaded hot and it penetrates very deep. This kind of ammo has been confirmed to kill bear.
No doubt, the same ammo out of a 10mm would be better, but I would take +p+ hard cast 9mm over what is sitting on the shelf at a local store in 10mm (which is probably loaded like a 40). In the end, I think ammo selection is just as important as caliber.
I still might get a 10mm, but for now I feel pretty confident with my 9mm.
Soli Deo Gloria
If I were the OP I would load up some 200 g SWC @ about 900 fps in my 1911. I don't believe a black bear would know the difference between that and a 10mm
I now have black bear in my area (northern lower peninsula MI) and I originally planned on buying a 10mm. There are plenty of options, but the G20 seemed to be the best option (G40 mos if you want a RDO and long slide).
After more research though, it made more sense to me to just buy ammo for the 9mm I already carry made specifically for things like bear. So I purchased a few boxes of Underwood hard cast 9mm. It is loaded hot and it penetrates very deep. This kind of ammo has been confirmed to kill bear.
No doubt, the same ammo out of a 10mm would be better, but I would take +p+ hard cast 9mm over what is sitting on the shelf at a local store in 10mm (which is probably loaded like a 40). In the end, I think ammo selection is just as important as caliber.
I still might get a 10mm, but for now I feel pretty confident with my 9mm.
Soli Deo Gloria
This is basically my thought, although I like revolvers and have a couple 44 magnums that would be better suited for bear.
800+ lb black bears are not unheard of but they are not common and the average black bear weighs 250lb or less.
In the southeast, I worry more about snakes and people than bears.
Andy
However , I have to take the dog out at night before bedtime and really would not wnat to surprise one , but it can happen . Not looking to hunt the bears/coyotes , just want something to stop them if I have to . I`m not looking for trouble , but want to have something to stop them if we can`t get away . Dog is a 100 lb Dobeman who thinks he`s invincible , but we all know better than that ..... also , he`s always on a leash at night and never left alone outside anytime .
You ever try to shoot at something while that dog was pulling and you were trying to hold a leash?
How about trying to shoot while your dog was attacking some shit (and not hit your dog)?
I've got a pair of 100lb Dobermans and they can see better than me, hear better than me, run faster than me, and snatch a leash out of my hand (leash burns SUCK) in an instant 'if' they are determined enough.
I 'thought' I was being slick by tethering mine together (a dog on each end and me holding the leash in the middle) on a 30' lead so just in case one decides to bolt after something she would possibly be hindered by the weight of the dog on the other end and me holding in the middle...
A few nights ago went to take them on that last potty break of the night and I did not see the stray cat under the carport. Patience saw it. :) Jerked that lead out of my hand and drug her sister (across mine and the neighbors wet ass muddy yards) like she was nothing as she took off after that cat in 'kill' mode. :)
I also remember a time when I took them out and they both had pinch collars on and a stray dog was near the yard. I had a good tight wind up hold on the leash so they didn't pull it free from my hand but they BOTH really wanted that dogs ass - Drug me across the yard a good 50' before they registered the prong collars at all and eased up. No damn way I could have been trying to shoot at anything while that was happening. No freaking way.
Only suggestions I have is for you to perhaps go out first and scope out the yard for potential dangers first but... Unless you got night vision those dogs will still be able to see stuff you can't (and hear it or smell it). A fence perhaps??? Good gloves to protect against leash burns and always go out 'ready' to be 'out'. (appropriate shoes and clothes and such - It sucks to be drug across a wet yard in your socks :( )
https://i.imgur.com/iUzIPRd.jpg
Good luck! :)
robbins290
11-22-22, 08:53
Living in the state with the highest black bear population, And have been encountered with them. I will say this, A 9mm with the right bullet and plus P ammo will do the trick. Black bears are not a threat. Not like a grizzly bear.
jackblack73
11-22-22, 12:31
If you already have a .45 you also might be able to get a conversion barrel. Like in 400 Cor-Bon or something
I spend time up in the NC foothills and recently , we`ve been having some issues with black bear coming up on people`s decks , front porches etc . Coyotes are also beginning to be a problem with them coming up on decks and porches .... seems they have lost all fear of humans . This is a very rural area with the closet town 20 miles away and a whopping 4200 population , just what we wanted .
However , I have to take the dog out at night before bedtime and really would not wnat to surprise one , but it can happen . Not looking to hunt the bears/coyotes , just want something to stop them if I have to . I`m not looking for trouble , but want to have something to stop them if we can`t get away . Dog is a 100 lb Dobeman who thinks he`s invincible , but we all know better than that ..... also , he`s always on a leash at night and never left alone outside anytime .
I`m familiar with the Glock 10mm , but wondering if there is anything else out there I should consider .
So , you guys that have the 10`s , I`d like to know some pros and cons on what you use ..... all my stuff is either 9mm or .45 ..... thanks
I carry a Glock 20 10mm with 200gr Hardcast Solids, in the woods here in Utah, but if i was buying one now i would go with the new S&W M&P10mm. My buddy got one recently and we shot it and that is a sweet gun, and it's cut for an optic if you like running RDS on your pistol. If I didn't already have a custom light bearing Kenai chest holster and other holsters for my Glock 20, i would sell it and get the M&P.
https://www.smith-wesson.com/product/mp-m20?sku=13387&preselect=1
As for the caliber debate, i also have some Underwood 147gr hardcast solid ammo for my 9mm, but always find myself taking my 10mm in the woods. I'd still feel comfortable with 9mm, but I'd rather have the extra energy if i ever have to engage a black bear or moose etc. And the semi auto 10mms shoot very smoothly with very manageable recoil.
Guys , thanks for the replies and suggestions . I`ll be going with an ammo change first as suggested and will be trying it out on my PPQ 9mm and Springfield .45 TRP as soon as the ammo gets here .
DG23 ... beautiful dogs you have there . My last pair was a traditional black and tan male and a red female. Current dog is a rescue ..... a natural ear 98 lb male that I`ve had for a little over 3 months now . Still getting to know each other . I do know he loves to chase deer and can pull me almost 10 yards if he catches me unprepared with a slack lead .
Funny story .... my first Dobe ( on number 6 now ) was a European dog , well over 110 lbs and solid muscle . We were walking near some back water in the Savannah area one day and I hear a splash and look out and see a 8 or 9 foot gator in the water . About that time , the Dobe sees him , jumps in the water to get to it , the gator makes a 90 degree turn towards the dog .
Luckly , I had him on a 10 foot lead .... which I yanked him in with . Ever seen a Dobe leave the water and not touch the ground until he was 6 feet on dry land ? He was pissed that I pulled him in as he thought he really wanted that gator .
Hadn``t though about the conversion barrel .... I`ll look into that .
Thanks !
One thing to keep in mind if you do decide on a 10mm, you will likely need to adjust the spring for the heavy loads. A factory 10mm has to run on the more common lighter loads.
Averageman
11-23-22, 02:32
Very thought provoking post.
I own a well worked over 1911 and a H&K USPC, that and some good ammo, I think I would be GTG.
Guys , thanks for the replies and suggestions . I`ll be going with an ammo change first as suggested and will be trying it out on my PPQ 9mm and Springfield .45 TRP as soon as the ammo gets here .
DG23 ... beautiful dogs you have there . My last pair was a traditional black and tan male and a red female. Current dog is a rescue ..... a natural ear 98 lb male that I`ve had for a little over 3 months now . Still getting to know each other . I do know he loves to chase deer and can pull me almost 10 yards if he catches me unprepared with a slack lead .
Funny story .... my first Dobe ( on number 6 now ) was a European dog , well over 110 lbs and solid muscle . We were walking near some back water in the Savannah area one day and I hear a splash and look out and see a 8 or 9 foot gator in the water . About that time , the Dobe sees him , jumps in the water to get to it , the gator makes a 90 degree turn towards the dog .
Luckly , I had him on a 10 foot lead .... which I yanked him in with . Ever seen a Dobe leave the water and not touch the ground until he was 6 feet on dry land ? He was pissed that I pulled him in as he thought he really wanted that gator .
Hadn``t though about the conversion barrel .... I`ll look into that .
Thanks !
Number 6 and 7 for me. Damn addicted to the breed. :)
If you are going to possibly be shooting around the dog you would be doing right by testing him out and desensitizing him to that sort of stuff sooner vs just waiting to see what he does when it happens.
I will never forget that first time my current girls heard the trash truck guy bang the dumpster a few times to make sure it was empty back when they were pups. Once that banging started they both pissed themselves AS they were running backwards as fast as they could go. Was pretty damn pitiful. The piss made the floor even more slippery and them trying to run backwards in that at full speed looked like something out of a looney tunes cartoon.
You don't have to use live ammo at first and really would not suggest that but.. You can start off slow and easy with stuff like blanks or other low report stuff and work your way forward.
My girls hanging out whilst I was spring tuning my 460 Rowland at work one day:
https://i.imgur.com/QWAp6Lq.jpg
Where the tape measure is sitting is where I was standing - The end of it is where the brass was generally landing once dialed in to that particular load. :)
Conversions are cool but a lot of times they really need to be dialed in with things that did not come in the conversion 'kit'.
Glock 20 is probably the most practical 10mm option.
I personally would lean more towards a .44 magnum.
But probably the most important thing you can also have is a bright light. Nothing beats seeing it coming or seeing it before you get there.
Look into a SureFire in the 1,000 lumen range or more. The rechargable USB battery models are really nice.
A Gen 5 20 MOS (and 21) has been softly announced by Glock.
My bear protection is a S&W .44 Mag.........Not saying 10mm won't get the job done, I just prefer the .44 for that purpose. It is loaded with 240gr hard cast lead over a full house charge of Alliant 2400.
https://hkguns.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-10/p1264362811-5.jpg
Too many people overlook a critical part of the equation and just go for more power.
How well do I shoot a .44 Mag? How fast can I make multiple hits? And how much time will I actually spend practicing with it, or with ANY revolver, when the answer to those questions are unsatisfactory?
I believe the majority of people who can shoot a service size pistol reasonably well can go to a 10mm without much extra practice.
I still prefer service caliber with deeper penetrating loads for black bear. I just don’t see them as that much of a threat.
Too many people overlook a critical part of the equation and just go for more power.
How well do I shoot a .44 Mag? How fast can I make multiple hits? And how much time will I actually spend practicing with it, or with ANY revolver, when the answer to those questions are unsatisfactory?
I believe the majority of people who can shoot a service size pistol reasonably well can go to a 10mm without much extra practice.
I still prefer service caliber with deeper penetrating loads for black bear. I just don’t see them as that much of a threat.
This is the exact reason i went with the Glock 20. Shot multiple large caliber revolvers and didn't like the split times and small ammo capacity, when i could get 16 rounds of 200 gr solids in 10mm. I imagine it would be easy to miss a few times with the adrenaline and fight or flight impulses of a charging bear or moose bearing down on you, so i feel more rounds with more manageable recoil would serve better. And i also spend a ton of time in the mountains here in Utah, and there isn't anything here that needs more than a 10mm IMO.
Does a G20 typically require a recoil spring upgrade for the high velocity hard cast loads?
robbins290
11-25-22, 15:56
Does a G20 typically require a recoil spring upgrade for the high velocity hard cast loads?
No. Unless your planning to pound the hv rounds on it. I put a few hundred thru mine. Gen 3. All stock. No problems.
Too many people overlook a critical part of the equation and just go for more power.
How well do I shoot a .44 Mag? How fast can I make multiple hits? And how much time will I actually spend practicing with it, or with ANY revolver, when the answer to those questions are unsatisfactory?
Depends how close the bear is.
Every time I've been in bear country, it's been in Alaska so I give them the respect they deserve.
I also think if you are gonna live in bear country, you should put in the time to LEARN to use whatever you carry. It is no different than needing a bolt gun and having greater familiarity with an AR.
I'm not trying to beat Jerry, it ain't gonna happen, I just need to beat the bear. Assuming I see it in time, I could do that with a lever gun if I had to and I'm not a cowboy action shooter.
Glock 20 is probably going to be the most proven option out there. My second pick would be a Sig 220. There are obviously other options with long track records (Colt Delta Elite, S&W 1006) but they have significant drawbacks in my opinion. Newer offerings include the Sig P320 X Ten, Springfield XD 10mm and S&W M&P10, and the jury is still out on those. I’ve not shot any of them but have handled the M&P and the 320. The S&W, while it feels slim, has what I consider a sub-par trigger and the grip texture is too aggressive for my liking. The P320 feels as chunky as the G20.
Y’all MIGHT get one shot off. You won’t be pumping multiple rounds from a semi into him. He’ll be on top of you before you know it, if you even see him.
The most overlooked aspect is what do you do if he’s on top of you? Push your semi into him and the slide will move and not fire out of battery.
Not an issue with a revolver.
Y’all MIGHT get one shot off. You won’t be pumping multiple rounds from a semi into him. He’ll be on top of you before you know it, if you even see him.
The most overlooked aspect is what do you do if he’s on top of you? Push your semi into him and the slide will move and not fire out of battery.
Not an issue with a revolver.
I've seen footage of bear attacks, if he is on top of you, you might want that round for yourself.
I agree that few people are gonna mag dump a bear, most don't charge 300 yards of open field coming after you. Most try and avoid you and when you wander too close they tend to burst out of their hide and slap all the ass off of you.
Most confrontations are you accidentally wandering into a feed area like a garbage dump, the bear expressing it's disapproval and you slowly leaving. This is why I say a powerful white light is probably as important as the firearm you carry.
Straight Shooter
11-29-22, 15:18
I read OP's post several times. WAY out in the boonies..AWESOME. A HIGH probability of bear/ coyote encounters...check.
So I thought..."What would I/MYSELF actually do if I were in that position?
And I could not come up with any other solution at all. IF I lived there..and had animals i loved & cared about... and of course not wanting any harm to come to myself or anyone else with me, I could not in any way justify carrying a handgun..caliber be damned.
MY thoughts..what would be wrong with carrying a nicely slung SHOCKWAVE in 12 or even 20 gauge? Fit it with a Big Dot and a light...sling it in front ready for bidness,throw some 00 BUCK in it...and I & I THINK you, would feel MUCH MORE secure & safe knowing you had a vastly superior weapon for the task.
I dont mean to go outside of what you asked..but if I were in bear country and they & coyotes, hell there ARE Mountain Lions in NC too, fyi..had lost fear of humans, I wouldnt go any other direction than what I suggested.
I read OP's post several times. WAY out in the boonies..AWESOME. A HIGH probability of bear/ coyote encounters...check.
So I thought..."What would I/MYSELF actually do if I were in that position?
And I could not come up with any other solution at all. IF I lived there..and had animals i loved & cared about... and of course not wanting any harm to come to myself or anyone else with me, I could not in any way justify carrying a handgun..caliber be damned.
MY thoughts..what would be wrong with carrying a nicely slung SHOCKWAVE in 12 or even 20 gauge? Fit it with a Big Dot and a light...sling it in front ready for bidness,throw some 00 BUCK in it...and I & I THINK you, would feel MUCH MORE secure & safe knowing you had a vastly superior weapon for the task.
I dont mean to go outside of what you asked..but if I were in bear country and they & coyotes, hell there ARE Mountain Lions in NC too, fyi..had lost fear of humans, I wouldnt go any other direction than what I suggested.
It's a good question, and i think the threat level should play a factor in the decision. In Utah, the threat level is very small, so I feel plenty comfortable with a pistol caliber. In Alaska though, if i were hunting or fishing remotely with a very high probability of encountering a Grizzly or agressive Brown, I would honestly probably take my 1301 Tactical shotgun with Brenneke slugs. And probably my G20 as well lol. Portability vs threat level is always a consideration, with the number of people you're with also factoring into the equation.
Does everyone here understand the OP is talking about black bear?
robbins290
11-30-22, 11:44
Does everyone here understand the OP is talking about black bear?
I dont think they do, Being in the state with the highest black bear population. I can confirm that a 9mm will work with them.
I now have, from time to time, a bear in my back yard. Never thought it would happen here in SW Virginia. Don't expect them to attack, generally, unless cornered. I've taken Deer with .44 magnums & .45 auto. Clearly the same thing will work fine on the average black bear. I think I'd like the 10mm, just haven't got around to buying one. I really don't want to have to set up to load for another caliber. I have been up close to brown bears in Alaska & they are impressive. It would be a piece of luck to stop a big brown in a close quarters encounter. If you get a chance read Phil Shoemaker's account of his encounter with a bear at his digs in Alaska.
Does everyone here understand the OP is talking about black bear?
I dont think they do
Seems to me like most people who've posted understood just fine. Maybe some conversations morphing to other potential bear situations, like in Alaska etc, where larger guns might be more beneficial.
The most compelling thing about a service size 10mm auto is that you don’t have to shoot it much if you regularly shoot a similar service sized pistol. I wouldn’t feel the need to reload for one.
Or shoot some .40SW in your 10mm, bonus you now have a use for the weak RSA that came with your pistol and should have been replaced by a spring appropriate for the full power 10mm you bought to shoot bears with.
Does everyone here understand the OP is talking about black bear?
So it looks like since 1900 there have been 61 deaths in the US from black bears.
In that same time frame there have only been 21 confirmed deaths attributed to great white sharks in the US.
But I really wouldn't screw around with either one.
More importantly there is LOTS of wildlife in NC mountains and honestly the mountain lions would concern me a lot more. I had a friend who lived there and one jumped out of a tree and walked off when we went out on his back porch. That was pretty eye opening.
If you "think" you are gonna be fine with 10mm then go ahead. I'm personally a lot more comfortable with a little more. Right now there are a bunch of people rolling a Taurus judge who think they are "just fine" and can't be told any differently.
More importantly there is LOTS of wildlife in NC mountains and honestly the mountain lions would concern me a lot more. I had a friend who lived there and one jumped out of a tree and walked off when we went out on his back porch. That was pretty eye opening.
While my Dobermans (rightfully) despise and LOVE to chase little cats -
I bet they would would piss themselves if they ran up on a BIG one that was NOT running away! :)
Would likely need new dogs after an encounter like that...
So it looks like since 1900 there have been 61 deaths in the US from black bears.
In that same time frame there have only been 21 confirmed deaths attributed to great white sharks in the US.
But I really wouldn't screw around with either one.
More importantly there is LOTS of wildlife in NC mountains and honestly the mountain lions would concern me a lot more. I had a friend who lived there and one jumped out of a tree and walked off when we went out on his back porch. That was pretty eye opening.
If you "think" you are gonna be fine with 10mm then go ahead. I'm personally a lot more comfortable with a little more. Right now there are a bunch of people rolling a Taurus judge who think they are "just fine" and can't be told any differently.
My Daughter & family have a cabin the N.C. Smokies. A couple of weeks ago their porch camera clearly showed 2 Bobcats walking on the porch!! One never knows !!!
I spend time up in the NC foothills and recently , we`ve been having some issues with black bear coming up on people`s decks , front porches etc . Coyotes are also beginning to be a problem with them coming up on decks and porches .... seems they have lost all fear of humans . This is a very rural area with the closet town 20 miles away and a whopping 4200 population , just what we wanted .
However , I have to take the dog out at night before bedtime and really would not wnat to surprise one , but it can happen . Not looking to hunt the bears/coyotes , just want something to stop them if I have to . I`m not looking for trouble , but want to have something to stop them if we can`t get away . Dog is a 100 lb Dobeman who thinks he`s invincible , but we all know better than that ..... also , he`s always on a leash at night and never left alone outside anytime .
I`m familiar with the Glock 10mm , but wondering if there is anything else out there I should consider .
So , you guys that have the 10`s , I`d like to know some pros and cons on what you use ..... all my stuff is either 9mm or .45 ..... thanks
Yes there are other things to consider and a new gun is the last thing to worry about. What is your skill level would be the first thing to ask. How good are you with your current pistol? Can you draw and accurately place rounds under bad conditions? Bad lighting, fighting with your dog and the leash pulling you. An aggressive critter ain’t going to be standing still and you need to be proficient with a rapid strong hand draw and fire accurate rounds keeping in mind where your dog is and possible backstop issues.
Have you practiced enough so muscle memory is built in for your strong hand draw and fire? Have you run your guns strong hand? Do they function one handed? Once you master those skills pick the gun you shoot best under those conditions and run it hard with a proper bullet to check for reliability.
I have been in numerous situations similar to what you are describing. Never had to tango with a bear but had a large pit bull come at me as I was walking my GSD. Had another situation while having my 120 pound rott on a lead. Another situation with a coyote and many situations with hogs and dogs in thick brush. Not to mention a few close calls in Zimbabwe.
You don’t need a new gun. Also, you want a stopper. First you have to hit it, but a “stopper” is a 454 and
I don’t think you need that. A few well placed 9mm rounds with a properly constructed bullet should do the job. YMMV.
Cheers, Steve
Yeah but can you stop a bobcat with anything less than a .500S&W?
robbins290
12-15-22, 07:41
Yeah but can you stop a bobcat with anything less than a .500S&W?
no, need a 600 nitro mag for bobcat.
Serious note, A 22 cal pellet rifle can take a bobcat. Took one a few years ago with one.
Steve , to answer your questions ..... yes , I do practice with both support and strong hand from the holster and the rounds I will be using will be the Underwood 147 hard cast flat nose in 9mm and their 200 grain flat nose .45 . Both guns ( Walther PPQ and SA TRP ) function well with Speer Gold Dot with either hand . Also practice firing with one hand and then changing to weak hand for several rounds .
Heading to the range either tomorrow or Saturday to test the new rounds out and see if the guns like them and which one I shoot the best with . Backstop. is about 2000 acres across from the back of the house covered in trees .
My situation is a little different as I have the luxury of checking out the area before I take the dog out . So far , the bears have been on the small size and very skittish , however , come spring , that may well be another story when momma bear has her cubs out .
so far , no problems , but want want some backup if something unexpected happens ..... like a bear coming on the back deck when I`m smoking some ribs as happened to a guy about 1/2 mile from me and we can`t get inside in time .
However , for me the best protection is avoidance and that`s what I plan on doing first if possible .
Renegade04
12-15-22, 17:41
I spend time up in the NC foothills and recently , we`ve been having some issues with black bear coming up on people`s decks , front porches etc . Coyotes are also beginning to be a problem with them coming up on decks and porches .... seems they have lost all fear of humans . This is a very rural area with the closet town 20 miles away and a whopping 4200 population , just what we wanted .
However , I have to take the dog out at night before bedtime and really would not wnat to surprise one , but it can happen . Not looking to hunt the bears/coyotes , just want something to stop them if I have to . I`m not looking for trouble , but want to have something to stop them if we can`t get away . Dog is a 100 lb Dobeman who thinks he`s invincible , but we all know better than that ..... also , he`s always on a leash at night and never left alone outside anytime .
I`m familiar with the Glock 10mm , but wondering if there is anything else out there I should consider .
So , you guys that have the 10`s , I`d like to know some pros and cons on what you use ..... all my stuff is either 9mm or .45 ..... thanks
SIG SAUER P320 XTEN.
https://i.imgur.com/xW41iea.jpg
My Daughter & family have a cabin the N.C. Smokies. A couple of weeks ago their porch camera clearly showed 2 Bobcats walking on the porch!! One never knows !!!
We have Bobcats in Iowa and they are nothing compared to the mountain lion I saw in NC.
FWIW , DNR says there are no mountain lions in NC . A friend has a vineyard in Wilkes County and got a video of one going down one of his vine rows marking as he went . Showed it to me and a friend who is with DNR ..... destroyed that theory right there .
About a month later , we were on our back deck one evening around 10pm and heard one about 100 yards down the mtn . We looked at each other , grabbed the dog and hauled tail inside .
Guess DNI needs to revamp things a bit .
FWIW , DNR says there are no mountain lions in NC . A friend has a vineyard in Wilkes County and got a video of one going down one of his vine rows marking as he went . Showed it to me and a friend who is with DNR ..... destroyed that theory right there .
About a month later , we were on our back deck one evening around 10pm and heard one about 100 yards down the mtn . We looked at each other , grabbed the dog and hauled tail inside .
Guess DNI needs to revamp things a bit .
So my sighting would have been around 20 years ago, but it was an impressive size cat. Like "welcome to f'ing africa" size cat. My friend had definitely seen it around before because he was "be careful of the mountain lion" like it was some kind of trip hazard. I really thought we were gonna be f'ed and were gonna pull and both die shooting a mountain lion with .45 and 9mm. I was really kind of glad when it just strolled down the hill.
Steve , to answer your questions ..... yes , I do practice with both support and strong hand from the holster and the rounds I will be using will be the Underwood 147 hard cast flat nose in 9mm and their 200 grain flat nose .45 . Both guns ( Walther PPQ and SA TRP ) function well with Speer Gold Dot with either hand . Also practice firing with one hand and then changing to weak hand for several rounds .
Heading to the range either tomorrow or Saturday to test the new rounds out and see if the guns like them and which one I shoot the best with . Backstop. is about 2000 acres across from the back of the house covered in trees .
My situation is a little different as I have the luxury of checking out the area before I take the dog out . So far , the bears have been on the small size and very skittish , however , come spring , that may well be another story when momma bear has her cubs out .
so far , no problems , but want want some backup if something unexpected happens ..... like a bear coming on the back deck when I`m smoking some ribs as happened to a guy about 1/2 mile from me and we can`t get inside in time .
However , for me the best protection is avoidance and that`s what I plan on doing first if possible .
Sounds like you are on the right path. One quick comment. When I mentioned backstop, you assumed shooting in only the direction of the woods. In my experience, when tangling with critters, it is a fluid situation. Hence, when I mention backstop, I am referring to the backstop as the situation presents itself. If you are in the situation, it is possible that you may be firing at your house as the situation evolves. I’m not sure if you have a wife and kids in the house but one always has to be mindful of the backstop as the shot presents.
Cheers, Steve
FWIW , DNR says there are no mountain lions in NC . A friend has a vineyard in Wilkes County and got a video of one going down one of his vine rows marking as he went . Showed it to me and a friend who is with DNR ..... destroyed that theory right there .
About a month later , we were on our back deck one evening around 10pm and heard one about 100 yards down the mtn . We looked at each other , grabbed the dog and hauled tail inside .
Guess DNI needs to revamp things a bit .A friend of mine and I saw what we believe had to be a mountain lion in isolated Northeast Alabama. It crossed the trail in front of us about 25 yd away, and was bigger than a full size German Shepherd.
There are bobcats on my property and I see them quite a bit on trail cam. So I know what they look like, and what we saw was not a bobcat. Bobcats also don't have long tails :-)
gunnerblue
12-26-22, 12:51
A few years ago a mountain lion was killed by a vehicle collision in Connecticut. It was determined to have been originally from the Black Hills region. They can and do range outside of their native areas.
A friend of mine and I saw what we believe had to be a mountain lion in isolated Northeast Alabama. It crossed the trail in front of us about 25 yd away, and was bigger than a full size German Shepherd.
There are bobcats on my property and I see them quite a bit on trail cam. So I know what they look like, and what we saw was not a bobcat. Bobcats also don't have long tails :-)
Bingo. Every time I have seen a cougar, it is the tail that attracts attention. Unless I’m in a bar half drunk. Then it is usually two things on a cougar that attract my attention.
Cheers, Steve
Straight Shooter
12-26-22, 14:56
FWIW , DNR says there are no mountain lions in NC . A friend has a vineyard in Wilkes County and got a video of one going down one of his vine rows marking as he went . Showed it to me and a friend who is with DNR ..... destroyed that theory right there .
About a month later , we were on our back deck one evening around 10pm and heard one about 100 yards down the mtn . We looked at each other , grabbed the dog and hauled tail inside .
Guess DNI needs to revamp things a bit .
I dont know if TN Wildlife Resource Agengy {TWRA} says TN has them or not- but I SAY we do. Saw one 75 yards or so behind my house in May 2007.
Broad daylight..sprinting across a fresh cut hay field. A former game warden 5 miles from me saw a black one a few years earlier..and another old gent in the small community I was in saw one too. Like about 30 other critters...eagles, armadillos,red ants, herons, coyotes, wild hogs, ect ect...theyve moved east & south too. Im in Lincoln County on the TN/AL line..and I know for a fact they are in around Dothan AL as Ive seen game camera footage from there clear as a bell.
I was really kind of glad when it just strolled down the hill.
It is unlikely you will see the one you really need to worry about. But I would be a bit nervous about a cat that seems so comfortable around people. It does depend on how often and how close it’s seen.
Have you seen the Hi Point 10mm YET? Since 10mm was the topic, I had to chunk the junk in this arena.
You ever try to shoot at something while that dog was pulling and you were trying to hold a leash?
How about trying to shoot while your dog was attacking some shit (and not hit your dog)?
I've got a pair of 100lb Dobermans and they can see better than me, hear better than me, run faster than me, and snatch a leash out of my hand (leash burns SUCK) in an instant 'if' they are determined enough.
I 'thought' I was being slick by tethering mine together (a dog on each end and me holding the leash in the middle) on a 30' lead so just in case one decides to bolt after something she would possibly be hindered by the weight of the dog on the other end and me holding in the middle...
A few nights ago went to take them on that last potty break of the night and I did not see the stray cat under the carport. Patience saw it. :) Jerked that lead out of my hand and drug her sister (across mine and the neighbors wet ass muddy yards) like she was nothing as she took off after that cat in 'kill' mode. :)
I also remember a time when I took them out and they both had pinch collars on and a stray dog was near the yard. I had a good tight wind up hold on the leash so they didn't pull it free from my hand but they BOTH really wanted that dogs ass - Drug me across the yard a good 50' before they registered the prong collars at all and eased up. No damn way I could have been trying to shoot at anything while that was happening. No freaking way.
Only suggestions I have is for you to perhaps go out first and scope out the yard for potential dangers first but... Unless you got night vision those dogs will still be able to see stuff you can't (and hear it or smell it). A fence perhaps??? Good gloves to protect against leash burns and always go out 'ready' to be 'out'. (appropriate shoes and clothes and such - It sucks to be drug across a wet yard in your socks :( )
https://i.imgur.com/iUzIPRd.jpg
Good luck! :)
Dg23, Cool looking dogs.
I agree with gun you shoot well with solid ammo is my pick for hunting in AZ. I want good capacity in case the wolf population takes off and I have to kill several. Hard for me to imagine most animals taking 15 to the head and sticking around. Big big bears scare the fck out of me though. 45-70 bizness.
Sig Legion makes a 10mm I would get if I were a 10mm guy. Or the Glock if I were a Glock guy.
Hell I take a gun EVERY night in my middle world suburban life, 2 legged animals….when walking my dogs late night.
PB
Cousin lives in East Tenn, not far from McGhee Tyson Airport. He has bee hives set out. Last fall he had a black bear on cam destroying his hives. He has never had an issue with bears in any of the areas he has hives set out in. He has a CZ-75, says he will start carrying it on his rounds.
The reviews I've seen on the M&P 2.0 10mm have been good. PSA has the "Tac Pack" on sale right now for $599.99. Gun, 4 mags and a holster. AND, S&W has a $100 rebate on the M&P 2.0, so that makes it $500 plus tax and shipping. I thought that was a pretty good deal so I ordered one today.
https://palmettostatearmory.com/s-w-m-p-m2-0-tac-pack-10mm-pistol-with-4-mags-holster-black-13731.html
The reviews I've seen on the M&P 2.0 10mm have been good. PSA has the "Tac Pack" on sale right now for $599.99. Gun, 4 mags and a holster. AND, S&W has a $100 rebate on the M&P 2.0, so that makes it $500 plus tax and shipping. I thought that was a pretty good deal so I ordered one today.
https://palmettostatearmory.com/s-w-m-p-m2-0-tac-pack-10mm-pistol-with-4-mags-holster-black-13731.htmlI almost wish I would have waited a few months. The deals are sweet. I sure like my 4.6.
Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
The new Glock 20 Gen5 is pretty sweet, I’ll probably pick one up for beer and cougar defense.
FWIW , DNR says there are no mountain lions in NC .
Maybe those are just cougars?
Mountain Lions - Kentucky Department of Fish & Wildlife
https://fw.ky.gov/Wildlife/Pages/Mountain-Lions.aspx#:~:text=Currently%2C%20there%20is%20no%20evidence,lions%20as%20pets%20since%202005.
https://fw.ky.gov/More/Pages/For-Kids.aspx
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