View Full Version : Clearly, I need a mental evaluation... I want this festering piece of garbage.
I don't know why, but I actually want to own a Smith & Wesson Model SW9F. Yes, you read that right. I want the original SIGMA!
https://www.iammo.com/media/catalog/product/p/o/posw9f-a.gif
So, what poorly designed flop of a gun do you secretly want and why?
For me, it is because I came of age as a shooter in the late '90s and grew up in a house of Beretta 92FS Italian Stallions, GLOCK perfection, and S&W Pre-Lock Revolver goodness.
A gun like the SIGMA never would have been allowed in our stable. Yet I have a dirty taboo lust for one, a deviant craving for such a wretched piece of plastic, made during the sinful days when S&W was owned by Tomkins PLC and the the Klinton Administration said we simple plebs couldn't own magazines greater than 10 rounds.
Why do I want one? Mostly because it is a relic of that bygone era. A time before the internet is what it is today. Before streaming services and YouTube reviewers. It is from a time when Shotgun News was like the Christmas season Toys R US catalog and reviews only came in two forms.
Gun rag publications and word of mouth at the local stop 'n rob gun shop where the counter monkeys and hanger-ons would say that as Vietnam era CIA Green Beret Navy SEAL, they tested the SIGMA on a super secret mission to Afghanistan to assassinate Leonid Brezhnev before the gun was made public.
This was to be S&W's answer to GLOCK and it utterly failed and I like having odd ball pieces in the collection. I like having guns that tried to make it but failed. Especially the odd balls from the '70s, '80s, and '90s.
But not the cheaply built guns. I'm not talking about guns like a Ring of Fire Saturday Night Special. I mean stuff from legit manufacturers that had commercial flops. The gun version of the Ford Edsel. Guns like the SIGMA or the Colt 2000 and Series 90 Double Eagle. Rifles like the HAC-7 or the Leader T2.
I have a fascination with those guns. All the "could have beens" but for bad marketing, bad input from lawyers, or just not good enough to be first place.
ViniVidivici
11-26-22, 10:15
Calico M950......."I come in peace...."
Loved the helical magazine concept.
I had a buddy who bought one of those. Probably never shot it enough to hate it.
OutofBatt3ry
11-26-22, 11:22
I have the latest variant (SD9?) that was a gift and kind of got me back into shooting. The trigger is laughably bad and doesn't lock back on empty every so often but I can't recall it ever having a malfunction. The OG Sigma was like a 90% mechanical copy of a Glock even though externally it looked quite different. The extractor looks visually identical as well as the the take-down "levers". My SD has a long ass extractor which I'm sure was a change needed to stop further litigation.
I only carry it when I'm going somewhere that's a big no-no to carry and I have to leave it in the car.
Before the mag ban I thought I needed a pair of hi cap master blasters and 6 mags each. They were the worst two pistols I ever owned and I've owned hundreds over the years. Neither could choke thru a full mag of ball. I hear the new ones are better but with horrendous triggers. Good luck in what you ask for. FWIW the Calico's were a lot of fun.
Err...
So I yeah, I owned a Double Eagle.
Don't buy the Sigma. It won't satisfy your nostalgia bug. That would be like buying a Yugo cuz: 80's.
I bought a Sigma when they first came out, thought it would be a good replacement for my 5904 since, at the time, I was a hardcore S&W fan. I had to send it back to Smith due to light primer strikes, causing failures to fire, which they fixed. After that I never felt fully comfortable carrying it and eventually ended up selling it and buying a Glock.
I own 2 AKs and secretly desire a third. I also want a bolt gun in 9.3x62, despite having no plans to kill a buffalo or whatever. I have several .380s, also. And I want a full-sized revolver, despite lack of any practical purpose.
Awe yes the reason for the law suit.
anachronism
11-26-22, 20:58
I am adversely traumatized by the sight of a Stigma. My trust in S&W was destroyed by one of the early manufactured "high-line" .40 Stigmas. I was so proud to own S&W's newest high-tech wonder, in their latest high performance caliber. I suffered from a form of PTSD (Post Traumatic Stigma Disorder), and was unable to resume my relationship with my trusted 686 for many years because of it. One bright side, I traded it off only a few days before the bottom dropped out of it's value. Seriously, it was worth about $300.00 as a trade in, plus extra because I had a number of factory magazines for it. I traded it and a hunnerd doller bill for a new Beretta 96 Centurion. I won that one, the Stigma was auctioned off a few years later when that gun store went out of business because the Manager was embezzling most of the receipts. I got to see it in the display case writhing in agony because nobody wanted it.
I waited until the M&P had been out over five years before I bought another S&W. :D
We used to call them Smegma's.
My secret wish is for an Interdynamics KG9. My dad had one back in the early 80s, and the internals looked like paper clips and he thought it was junk so he sold it late 80s. But the kid who grew up watching Miami Vice still wants one.
I own 2 AKs and secretly desire a third. I also want a bolt gun in 9.3x62, despite having no plans to kill a buffalo or whatever. I have several .380s, also. And I want a full-sized revolver, despite lack of any practical purpose.
1. 9.3x62mm is a fantastic cartridge.
2. AKs are good guns if made properly.
3. .380 pistols rock.
4. Full size revolvers are still capable.
Well, I'm following a few on gunbroker.com now. :help:
I owned a SW40VE for a while. It wasn't terrible and I sold it for not too much of a loss. I don't regret selling it and certainly have not been tempted by another, even when I see a 9mm model marked way down.
I remember the trigger pull was long and the light rail was not standard. It was reliable though.
Andy
Well, I'm following a few on gunbroker.com now. :help:
You already have some S&W autos with fantastically crappy triggers, might as well grab their plastic crappy auto to complete the set.
Sorry, can't help you. Personally I'd just be hunting another P&R model I didn't already own.
Coal Dragger
11-28-22, 01:16
I have an irrational urge to buy every Hi-Point I see just so I can yell “YEET!” at the range while grabbing my crotch and shooting the pistol sideways.
You already have some S&W autos with fantastically crappy triggers, might as well grab their plastic crappy auto to complete the set.
Sorry, can't help you. Personally I'd just be hunting another P&R model I didn't already own.
https://media.tenor.com/s1wnF2DiWA0AAAAC/skeptical-futurama.gif
3rd Gen Autos have fantastic triggers. Compared to others, like SIG or HK. Only Beretta beats 'em. Plus, I have a TON of pre '82 pinned and recessed revolvers from Big Blue.
I don't know why, but I actually want to own a Smith & Wesson Model SW9F. Yes, you read that right. I want the original SIGMA!
While I'd been around guns my whole life, the first gun I purchased with my new CCW in MA was a Sigma. It was cheap (big concern at the time as a broke a$$ student), made locally, some PDs used it etc, et. There was not a lot to like about it, but I will say it was dead reliable. When I think of the biggest worry I have about cheap guns that we'd CCW is reliability, and on that front, it was GTG. Everything else was terrible. We called it the Smegma. :rolleyes:
I owned a SW40VE for a while. It wasn't terrible and I sold it for not too much of a loss. I don't regret selling it and certainly have not been tempted by another, even when I see a 9mm model marked way down.
I remember the trigger pull was long and the light rail was not standard. It was reliable though.
Andy
My father in law and brother in law owns a pair SW40VE, and my father in law calls it his "Glock" which should tell you a lot about him.
Diamondback
11-28-22, 10:10
Glad I stuck by my guns getting a 1911 rather than let my mother talk me into one of these POS'es 20 years ago...
My father in law and brother in law owns a pair SW40VE, and my father in law calls it his "Glock" which should tell you a lot about him.
Is he serious, or joking?
Is he serious, or joking?
He knows its not a Glock, but its more a generic term for a polymer pistol
I’ve had a couple mod. 71 Winnie’s in .348 and .450 Alaskan for nearly 20 years. They been to range for load development and a couple times after, nothing since.
A lot of energy expended, guess that “journey” was what it was all about in retrospect.
I’ve had a couple mod. 71 Winnie’s in .348 and .450 Alaskan for nearly 20 years. They been to range for load development and a couple times after, nothing since.
A lot of energy expended, guess that “journey” was what it was all about in retrospect.
Honestly, thats what I forsee if I get a 9.3x62. Develop a couple loads for it, then pull it out twice a year just to hear it smack the everliving shite out of the steel. Might shoot a black bear or a deer or pig with it, but there are better and cheaper options for that. Our deer here are tiny, and any cartridge kills them adequately.
gunnerblue
11-28-22, 14:42
Honestly, thats what I forsee if I get a 9.3x62. Develop a couple loads for it, then pull it out twice a year just to hear it smack the everliving shite out of the steel. Might shoot a black bear or a deer or pig with it, but there are better and cheaper options for that. Our deer here are tiny, and any cartridge kills them adequately.
One of my favorite rounds. I have a custom Model 70 that is my primary North Idaho hunting rifle. More appropriate for elk than deer but it's comforting to have 250 gr. Barnes bullets on hand in grizzly country.
Sometimes it's better to want than have.
Honestly, thats what I forsee if I get a 9.3x62. Develop a couple loads for it, then pull it out twice a year just to hear it smack the everliving shite out of the steel. Might shoot a black bear or a deer or pig with it, but there are better and cheaper options for that. Our deer here are tiny, and any cartridge kills them adequately.
I have guns because I like guns. Some of them don't need a reason for why I have them. 9.3x62mm is a kick ass cartridge with a cool history. That alone is worth why I like it and want it.
Honestly, thats what I forsee if I get a 9.3x62. Develop a couple loads for it, then pull it out twice a year just to hear it smack the everliving shite out of the steel. Might shoot a black bear or a deer or pig with it, but there are better and cheaper options for that. Our deer here are tiny, and any cartridge kills them adequately.
After all, doesn’t every man need a Stopping Rifle?
A 9.3X62 Bolt Gun WOULD be very cool.
That stops both ends of the rifle. Ouch.
I picked up an older Model 70 338 Win Mag 30 years ago at an estate sale. Maybe 10 percent more energy than the 9.3x62. Just in case I ran into a grizzly in TX. So far its kept them all scared away...
The reality is, it's just good for silly grins when its shot at the range.
That stops both ends of the rifle. Ouch.
I picked up an older Model 70 30 years ago at an estate sale. Maybe 10 percent more energy than the 9.3x62. Just in case I ran into a grizzly in TX. So far its kept them all scared away...
The reality is, it's just good for silly grins when its shot at the range.
All the trash in my shoulder has made me sensitive to recoil, so I’d probably go with a fairly fat barrel, thick pad, a can, and non-e Razor 1-6 to tame it. Tune the handloads to what I can enjoy.
Well, it happened. :sarcastic:
https://i.imgur.com/iSYmvDq.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/1Y1xtxy.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/kHxeAtO.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/BcTVo1w.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/ICoBn2L.jpeg
Comes with the original packaging, two original 17rd mags, and paperwork. All under $300 when everything is said and done.
Now I have a HK VP70Z, a IM Metal HS2000, and the Sigma, plus a pile of GLOCKs.
I have a HK VP70, but it's for the reference collection.
I have a HK VP70, but it's for the reference collection.
That's pretty much what the Sigma will be used for. It's going to be part of an article I'm doing.
Got it on Gun Broker for under $300.
https://i.imgur.com/iSYmvDq.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/1Y1xtxy.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/kHxeAtO.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/BcTVo1w.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/ICoBn2L.jpeg
:sarcastic:
Coal Dragger
11-29-22, 16:53
Well it is an interesting choice for $300.
You could have bought 2 glorious Hi-Points for that and dual yeeted at the range holding them sideways, although you’d have to have your lady friend grab your crotch for you. Which would end up costing way more than $300 come to think of it.
Well it is an interesting choice for $300.
You could have bought 2 glorious Hi-Points for that and dual yeeted at the range holding them sideways, although you’d have to have your lady friend grab your crotch for you. Which would end up costing way more than $300 come to think of it.
I am happily married . ;) So, I have part of that range trip covered.
I've read that the SW9F magazine while longer, is the same overall length as the SW9VE magazine in regard to where the floorplate sits. The magazine body itself is longer to fit that extra round. But the 16rd magazine fits in the original SW9F.
https://i.imgur.com/dyi7YLv.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/fKAy9ac.jpeg
Got it on Gun Broker for under $300.
You know? I honestly wouldn't mind having a mediocre 9mm some days. Pappabear will pick up some errant unknown shit 9mm ball round and just dump it out of his Staccato. I'm like..... "fukk dude!"
The same guy I knew who had one of these Sigmas also had the old P89 ruger. That hog was an unstoppable piece of glorious investment cast shit that was a guilty pleasure to shoot.
OutofBatt3ry
12-02-22, 19:13
Well, it happened. :sarcastic:
https://i.imgur.com/iSYmvDq.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/1Y1xtxy.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/kHxeAtO.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/BcTVo1w.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/ICoBn2L.jpeg
Comes with the original packaging, two original 17rd mags, and paperwork. All under $300 when everything is said and done.
Now I have a HK VP70Z, a IM Metal HS2000, and the Sigma, plus a pile of GLOCKs.
lol. I'm happy for you though. I was keeping an eye out for a Ruger P85, my first firearm...Never had any issues with it, just all the pompous aholes at the range told me my gun sucked(in a nice way). Circa 2004ish
I sold it and bought a Springfield 1911. It never worked right. I sold it, then moved onto Glocks, which was the correct answer...but I missed that Ruger...reminds me not to listen to range monkeys.
I bought an un-loved P95 to fill the void. I still never shoot it, but I ran like 1/2 a case of 9mm (500ish boolits) after I cleaned it up; not a single malfunction.
https://i.imgur.com/VEiAo2a.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/BefyGEK.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/sUmcU2P.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/0EOBUZc.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/l2YgjqO.jpg
It’s everything a Glock didn’t want to be.
Well now you might as well start looking for that clean, low miles Yugo. Go ahead and complete the set.
Well now you might as well start looking for that clean, low miles Yugo. Go ahead and complete the set.
Nah, I'll get a '94 Toyota Trecel!
https://consumerguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/91812071990204.jpg
The SW9F shoots fine. I did some accuracy drills on the head and small top left target, then went and did two and three shot rapid fire self-defense drills. Took a few tries to get used to the longer reset, but it is pretty much like shooting a spongy DA revolver trigger.
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/122381/Screenshot_20221208-153342_Gallery_jpg-2628407.JPG
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/122381/Screenshot_20221208-153440_Gallery_jpg-2628408.JPG
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/122381/Screenshot_20221208-153331_Gallery_jpg-2628410.JPG
I had the RSO shoot it too. He's younger than the gun. He had a tricked out G19X with all the modern features. He was surprised at the trigger being what it was, but even he said, it wasn't bad.
Oh, the rumor is true, a G17 barrel fits perfectly in a 1st generation Sigma.
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/122381/20221207_225331_jpg-2627795.JPG
Uhhhh heard it from a "friend" a lot of G17/19 parts will fit the Smegma...and not gonna lie, I might get one the new versions if cheap enough and work it up with Apex Trigger and perhaps mill the slide... yes I know I have issues...
Ok offbeat handguns guns I desire, in no particular order:
Mauser M2 as imported by Sig
Steyr M9A series
Colt Double Eagle
Sig SP2022
All the Beretta mouse guns (22LR,25ACP 32ACP etc)
Some of discontinued Beretta pistols that came & went like a fart in the night
a 45ACP revolver
Rifles:
Benelli MR1
a PSL
Steyr Scout in 308 & 223
Any semi in 50BMG
An African Safari high grade bolt gun
Anything straight pull
Uhhhh heard it from a "friend" a lot of G17/19 parts will fit the Smegma...and not gonna lie, I might get one the new versions if cheap enough and work it up with Apex Trigger and perhaps mill the slide... yes I know I have issues...
Ok offbeat handguns guns I desire, in no particular order:
Mauser M2 as imported by Sig
Steyr M9A series
Colt Double Eagle
Sig SP2022
All the Beretta mouse guns (22LR,25ACP 32ACP etc)
Some of discontinued Beretta pistols that came & went like a fart in the night
a 45ACP revolver
Rifles:
Benelli MR1
a PSL
Steyr Scout in 308 & 223
Any semi in 50BMG
An African Safari high grade bolt gun
Anything straight pull
Mauser M2s are no longer cheap. The .40 S&W ones are VERY POPULAR for 10mm Auto conversions.
I want the rifle I lusted over when I was a teenager. A Ruger Mini-14 classic wood stock. Except I don’t want to pay over a grand for a new one nowadays. [emoji51]
Does that count?
The SW9F shoots fine. I did some accuracy drills on the head and small top left target, then went and did two and three shot rapid fire self-defense drills. Took a few tries to get used to the longer reset, but it is pretty much like shooting a spongy DA revolver trigger.
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/122381/Screenshot_20221208-153342_Gallery_jpg-2628407.JPG
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/122381/Screenshot_20221208-153440_Gallery_jpg-2628408.JPG
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/122381/Screenshot_20221208-153331_Gallery_jpg-2628410.JPG
I had the RSO shoot it too. He's younger than the gun. He had a tricked out G19X with all the modern features. He was surprised at the trigger being what it was, but even he said, it wasn't bad.
Oh, the rumor is true, a G17 barrel fits perfectly in a 1st generation Sigma.
Glock sued too:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tspWxwBPyVM
Glock sued too:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tspWxwBPyVM
Oh, I know..... I have the original news report about the out of court settlement saved.
Mauser M2s are no longer cheap. The .40 S&W ones are VERY POPULAR for 10mm Auto conversions.
Wow, didn't know that they had become popular for that reason! Thanks for the heads up but I'll still prowl gunshows, dealers used gun cabinets, etc for a relatively inexpensive one if at all possible. Maybe even look for the 45ACP version too!
The Sigma series was designed when the mindset for law enforcement and self-defense guns was that a long and somewhat heavy pull that replicates the DA pull of a revolver of wonder-nine hammer fired gun was the way to go.
I shoot everything under the sun. GLOCKs, 1911s, Rugers, Walthers, Berettas, SIGs, S&Ws, Colts, etc... DA Revolvers, SAAs, DA/SA autos, SAOs, DAOs, etc...
Shooting the SW9F is like shooting a DAO SIG before the SRT/DAK kit.
Hell, my SW9F surprised so much, I went and got a SD9VE to accompany it.
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/122381/Resized_20221212_193644_jpg-2633269.JPG
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/122381/Resized_20221212_193706_jpg-2633271.JPG
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/122381/Resized_20221212_193735_jpg-2633272.JPG
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/122381/Resized_20221212_193836_jpg-2633273.JPG
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/122381/Resized_20221212_193914_jpg-2633274.JPG
Is the Sigma the best gun out there? Nope. But is it bad? Meh, for under $300, I've seen far worse guns that are more expensive. The Sigma in that category is a good deal. It puts 9mm where I want it at a self-defense distance and it does it reliably.
Will I be using it as a three gun pistol for nationals? Hell no! But it is a pistol of a bygone era and makes turning money into noise, fun, in the same way that watching your favorite b-movie slasher flick is fun.
titsonritz
12-13-22, 23:47
Maybe go for a Colt 2000 next.
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