View Full Version : What are the best platforms for the .40
Hello,
This is my first post on here and I have been checking out some threads and using the search function quite a bit prior to posting.
I am looking for user opinions on what the best platform for a .40 is, I have noticed that people tend to go with the M&P, 1911, and HK for .45, and Glock for 9MM from some of the threads I have read.
I tend to go with 1911's and Glocks for the most part, however I have read some negative feedback on the Glock's in .40.
I will be looking for a full size pistol and possibly a smaller compact, I will be looking forward to the responses as I have discovered a lot of good information since I have been checking out this site.
Thanks.
Fire_Medic
12-25-08, 10:25
Glock 22! :D
Let the flaming begin!
Alpha Sierra
12-25-08, 10:30
Best is hard to quantify.
I tend to look at a pistol's ergonomics above all else first. If it fits my hand properly then it gets a second look. By fitting my hand I mean being able to reach the trigger with the pistol still in line with my forearm and pointing naturally. Unlike some, I place a significant amount of importance to a pistol that will easily point where I look without having to work to align the sights. Secondly, a low bore axis is very important to me as well.
I tend to not get too wrapped around the axle over brand names.
gtmtnbiker98
12-25-08, 10:32
The Sig P229 seems to fit the bill quite nicely along with the M&P 40 FS.
I guess I should have stated that by best, I am looking for Reliability, Accuracy, and all around toughness ( nothing fragile).
RogerinTPA
12-25-08, 11:21
M&P40, but I'm biased...;)
Jay Cunningham
12-25-08, 11:22
I have heard the M&P40 from a lot of people that I trust. I have no personal experience, though.
I've thinned out my .40 inventory quite a bit. The only keepers are my SIG-Sauer P229 and Hi-Power.
Best, Jon
Glock 22! :D
Let the flaming begin!
Glock 23 for me. Never had a single problem and I KNOW that it works in a real world shooting.
J-
Sig P229 and M&P .40 were designed for the .40 round but I would choose the M&P. Better ergo's and better QC than Sig which has been slipping and is not worth the premium $$$ they charge.
I see a lot of people tend to favor the M&P, is there something they do better or lets say different than Glock and other manufacturer's for instance to have such a high recommendation? Thanks for the answers so far.
In my opinion the M&P is a game changer when it comes to .40. Because of it's ergonomics and I think because of the steel chassis design it is the softest shooting .40 I have ever fired. .40 in the M&P feels about like a +P in 9mm to me.
M&P40, but I'm biased...;)
+1 From Me
Glock 23 for me. Never had a single problem and I KNOW that it works in a real world shooting.
J-
Its not like the gun knows the difference. I've had G22's w/ light, that I know wouldn't work on the flat range.
Bob
I see a lot of people tend to favor the M&P, is there something they do better or lets say different than Glock and other manufacturer's for instance to have such a high recommendation? Thanks for the answers so far.
It was designed and built as a .40, add to that the adjustable grip, and I feel its enough better to warrant a switch.
Bob
There's a USP .40 in the house(my son's) and it's an extremely rugged and usable pistol. I'm not a huge .40 fan but if I were choosing a .40 for myself it would be one of these or an M&P,M&P due to ergos. Course the M&P will cost you less,too.
It was designed and built as a .40, add to that the adjustable grip, and I feel its enough better to warrant a switch.
Bob
So are the the Glocks not designed and built as a .40? If not what kind of major issues can this cause? Also are the H&K's worth the extra money compared to Glock and the M&P? I am looking at getting a .40 and .45 along with a 9MM possibly and would like to keep them all on the same platform pretty much.
variablebinary
12-27-08, 20:23
All arounds, I think the 226 and 229 handle .40 better than any other type of handgun out there, however they are made by SIG which doesnt exactly inspire confidence these days.
I've fired nearly all the .40 mainstays, and I personally prefer my good old Glock model G22.
All arounds, I think the 226 and 229 handle .40 better than any other type of handgun out there, however they are made by SIG which doesnt exactly inspire confidence these days.
I've fired nearly all the .40 mainstays, and I personally prefer my good old Glock model G22.
I had a P220 a few years back and the thing was a tack driver, however every time I went to the range, when I got close to the 100 round mark it would start jamming. I also wasn't crazy about the trigger but it was very accurate out of the box.
I have owned 4 Glocks in the .40 S&W, and had zero issues with them.
(2) G22, G23 and a G27.
So are the the Glocks not designed and built as a .40? If not what kind of major issues can this cause? Also are the H&K's worth the extra money compared to Glock and the M&P? I am looking at getting a .40 and .45 along with a 9MM possibly and would like to keep them all on the same platform pretty much.
The G22 was basically a G17 with a .40 barrel stuffed in it. Over the years Glock has made improvements, but there are still some issues.
It has been covered multiple times on multiple forums, there are more then one agency that has had reliability problems with the G22, usually with a light attached.
For those individuals that haven't had the problems, good for you, I have, and your examples do not make you the Glock Pope, granting absolution to those Glocks and Glock shooters that have.
3 calibres, same type platform, I have an M&P in 9mm,.40 and .45.
Bob
IrishDevil
12-27-08, 20:47
So are the the Glocks not designed and built as a .40? If not what kind of major issues can this cause? Also are the H&K's worth the extra money compared to Glock and the M&P? I am looking at getting a .40 and .45 along with a 9MM possibly and would like to keep them all on the same platform pretty much.
If you're wanting to keep with the same platform, I personally would go M&P. They seem to be working really well, I don't have much experience with the .40 variant though. They all use the same sight cuts and can share the same CTC grips, as well as carry gear for the most part. One thing I like is that they're all available with thumb safeties now.
My Sig 229 has never failed me. I wouldn't recommend it for a concealed carry gun though it is a little bulky.
varoadking
12-27-08, 21:10
What are the best platforms for the .40
3rd Generation Smith & Wessons...
variablebinary
12-27-08, 22:20
So are the the Glocks not designed and built as a .40? If not what kind of major issues can this cause? Also are the H&K's worth the extra money compared to Glock and the M&P? I am looking at getting a .40 and .45 along with a 9MM possibly and would like to keep them all on the same platform pretty much.
Glock was one of the first to make a .40. However, at the time all they really did was bore out a 9mm slide for .40
That was a long time ago though. Glock has made numerous changes to add strength, rigidity and chamber support
Part of the reason I prefer Glock is they just fit my hand really well. I find the design easy to draw with a consistent secure grip, and despite being a "plastic" pistol it mitigates recoil with hotter loads really well.
Try and shoot as many different pistols as you can and see what you like most
I am not a fan of the .40 round but from the few guns I have shot I would have to say that the H&K USP handled the round the best. I would like to try out the S&W M&P in .40 as the reviews and the gun's ergos are great.
Its not like the gun knows the difference. I've had G22's w/ light, that I know wouldn't work on the flat range.
Bob
Ok I guess when I say 'I KNOW" that my Glock 23 works in a real world shooting, is because I have been in real world shooting. I know that a gun does not know the difference.
Thanks
J-
S&W M&P would be my first choice as it was designed from the ground up around this caliber.
About the only platform I would say no to would be a Glock in 40 (especially the 22). Why you ask? Because we see them FAIL the most in training classes (especially low light classes with a light attached to the weapon). For those of you that think that G-lock as fixed this issue, you would be mistaken. A PD in KY recently took a shipment of new G22's. They are issued lights for their duty weapons. Over 1/3 of their G22's malfunctioned and the G-lock rep had to come out to address the situation.
Before everyone and their brother tells me that their G-lock in 40 runs fantastic, I would first say that my above issues do NOT affect all G-lock's in 40.
For those of you that believe your G-lock in 40 is perfect, I would suggest taking a 3 day night shooting school with it and attach a metal flashlight to it (SF X300, SL TLR-1) . This will tell you a lot about your pistols reliability.
C4
RogerinTPA
12-28-08, 14:35
The G22 was basically a G17 with a .40 barrel stuffed in it. Over the years Glock has made improvements, but there are still some issues.
It has been covered multiple times on multiple forums, there are more then one agency that has had reliability problems with the G22, usually with a light attached.
For those individuals that haven't had the problems, good for you, I have, and your examples do not make you the Glock Pope, granting absolution to those Glocks and Glock shooters that have.
3 calibres, same type platform, I have an M&P in 9mm,.40 and .45.
Bob
Ditto, plus the 9C.:cool:
Ok I guess when I say 'I KNOW" that my Glock 23 works in a real world shooting, is because I have been in real world shooting. I know that a gun does not know the difference.
Thanks
J-
Whats your point, then? That you were in a real world shooting, and won/survived is great and speaks to you, not the reliability of your gun. I'm pretty sure there was nothing unusual about the environment the real world shooting took place in, that would place more stress on the gun, then good training on the range. I'm not talking about the 50 rounds slow fire, every few months type stuff, either.
Bob
Whats your point, then? That you were in a real world shooting, and won/survived is great and speaks to you, not the reliability of your gun. I'm pretty sure there was nothing unusual about the environment the real world shooting took place in, that would place more stress on the gun, then good training on the range. I'm not talking about the 50 rounds slow fire, every few months type stuff, either.
Bob
Ok well I quess some people will never be pleased. This has nothing to do with the fact that I was in a real world shooting. It only has to do with the fact that I feel that Glocks are good guns and you do not. Oh well, to each his own. I rely on one and have no worries about it. I have owned several glocks over the years and never have had any problems. I have about 5000 rounds through my duty glock 23 with no problems (that speaks to reliabilty doesnt it). Like Grant posted above the problems are NOT with every Glock, maybe I got a good one. Maybe my entire 50person dept got goods ones I don't know. I will only ever speak from my own personal experiences on things, just how I am.
Everyone have a good new year,
J-
Fire_Medic
12-28-08, 15:55
..........
Ok well I quess some people will never be pleased. This has nothing to do with the fact that I was in a real world shooting. It only has to do with the fact that I feel that Glocks are good guns and you do not. Oh well, to each his own. I rely on one and have no worries about it. I have owned several glocks over the years and never have had any problems. I have about 5000 rounds through my duty glock 23 with no problems (that speaks to reliabilty doesnt it). Like Grant posted above the problems are NOT with every Glock, maybe I got a good one. Maybe my entire 50person dept got goods ones I don't know. I will only ever speak from my own personal experiences on things, just how I am.
Everyone have a good new year,
J-
Actually, I like Glocks just fine, and rely on one everyday I go to work also, whether I like it or not.
I've had a hard time articulating myself the last few days, so bare with me.
You felt the need to indicate that your G23 worked in a "real world shooting", I took this as some kind of added endorsement, as if to say, if it works in a real world shooting, its good to go. I only mean to add, the gun doesn't know if its pointed at paper of meat. So it really doesn't have any bearing on the guns reliability.
How many of those 5000 rounds were with a light attached? What kind of ammo? What mags? How fresh is the recoil spring? What light? These are all variables that have some effect on the reliability of the Glock in .40, or at least the G22
I got 500 rounds down range with my new G22 not so long ago and to test the reliability I attached a friends TLR-1 to it for the entire range session and the gun worked flawlessly. Guess I got a good one.
500 isn't really a lot of rounds. Check out the threads regarding the reliability issues. There are a lot of variables involved, including the strength of the recoil spring. A fresh spring may mitigate some of the trouble.
Like I said I like Glocks quite a bit, and wish they didn't have the trouble they have. For quite awhile my issued G22 was reliable, right up to the point that it wasn't.
What I start to take issue with, and this may not be you guys, is those who feel since their personal Glocks, limited number as they me, don't malfunction, that all Glocks don't malfunction, and those of us who have had the problems, and witnessed them agency wide, are Glock haters/bashers, and are either over reacting, stretching things, or out right lying.
If your Glock .40 is running good, good, perhaps you should just make a mental note of the reported problems and be on the look out for issues, and take some preventative/cautionary steps.
Bob
This thread on 10-8 forums is very informative regarding the Glock 22/light issue.
http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=63496&an=0&page=0#63496
fireftrjef
12-28-08, 16:29
I've owned 2 Glock 23's in the past but not anymore.
I can say in my own personal experience with both guns, were that the only time they malfunctioned was coincidentally while a light was attached.
Actually, I like Glocks just fine, and rely on one everyday I go to work also, whether I like it or not.
I've had a hard time articulating myself the last few days, so bare with me.
You felt the need to indicate that your G23 worked in a "real world shooting", I took this as some kind of added endorsement, as if to say, if it works in a real world shooting, its good to go. I only mean to add, the gun doesn't know if its pointed at paper of meat. So it really doesn't have any bearing on the guns reliability.
How many of those 5000 rounds were with a light attached? What kind of ammo? What mags? How fresh is the recoil spring? What light? These are all variables that have some effect on the reliability of the Glock in .40, or at least the G22
500 isn't really a lot of rounds. Check out the threads regarding the reliability issues. There are a lot of variables involved, including the strength of the recoil spring. A fresh spring may mitigate some of the trouble.
Like I said I like Glocks quite a bit, and wish they didn't have the trouble they have. For quite awhile my issued G22 was reliable, right up to the point that it wasn't.
What I start to take issue with, and this may not be you guys, is those who feel since their personal Glocks, limited number as they me, don't malfunction, that all Glocks don't malfunction, and those of us who have had the problems, and witnessed them agency wide, are Glock haters/bashers, and are either over reacting, stretching things, or out right lying.
If your Glock .40 is running good, good, perhaps you should just make a mental note of the reported problems and be on the look out for issues, and take some preventative/cautionary steps.
Bob
OK fair enough, copy on articulation, I suffer from that too LOL. I didnot mean to imply that my gun functioned in a shooting that it was good to go. I was more going for the I know my gun will work when needed thing so I have confidence in it, which appearantly didnt work out, LOL
As for the other questions about my 5000rounds. None have been with a light attached, I don't use one. Our SWAT guys have lights (surefire I belive) mounted on their glock 35c's for the last year -year and half with out any problems that I know of. They shoot about 300rounds a month. But they are all new guns and different set up then a 23.
Other than a hand full of factory ammo (shooting off old ammo when we switch out for new and the rounds that I fired in the shooting) About 4750 of the 5000 are crappy cheap, dirty commerical bulk reloads that we qual with (they come in 50round bags in a case box LOL). Duty ammo is Federal Hydra shok. Mags are factory glock 13rounders that came with my gun when issued.
I think that the recoil spring is new with in the last 2 years, that would have been switched out by dept armorers during yearly tear down, but I seem to remember something about a new recoil spring a couple of years ago (possibly at the direction of Glock?)
I realize that all guns including glocks can be prone to problems and have heard of some of them, but I have not seen any with mine or at my dept. I apologize for implying that you were a basher/hater, it was not my intent.
Everyone have a good new year,
J-
FWIW, I took jjc155's comment along the lines of "it saved my ass once, and I'll trust it forever." Not so much meaning he has scientific evidence but rather a personal/emotional level of faith in the gun because of its history. Like someone surviving a serious wreck in a Ford truck who buys Ford trucks the rest of his life because he has faith they're built well & safe.
As we've discussed her many times, "durability" means different things to different people. Many folks consider 5,000 rounds a solid test of a gun's service. When is the last time you saw a trustworthy review in a gun rag that detailed 5k rounds of evaluation?
For others -- and M4C tends to attract folks from this end of the bell curve -- 5k is just one year (or less) of shooting.
Barring bad luck (buying a lemon, which can happen with any brand) or an unannounced production/manufacturing change by the manufacturer (which happens with all brands), any well-known pistol used by lots of police agencies is probably "good enough" for someone who won't put 5,000 rounds through his gun in a lifetime.
Matt Edwards
12-28-08, 19:15
Hey Todd,
Do you have any good poop on the service life of the M&P .40? I gave mine to some jerk, and I just want to know how much longer he has...;)
EDIT- I have a G22. I'd carry it and not look back, HOWEVER, it has a low round count and there won't be a light attached. If I were going to be a ".40 always" type of guy, the 22 may not be my choice. I'm not saying wouldn't, but I do take the info from guys who carry them on duty, like Moran, into account. To ignore it would be folly.
paconstabull@yahoo.com
12-28-08, 23:17
Any Glock
I've spent a day working with the XD40. I was fantastic! Much better than my CZ40P. I like the Sig P229 too (but don't own one). I have friends who own G23s; and after shooting their guns I think they are just OK. I like my G19 better. I haven't even held the M&P yet so if I were in the market for another .40 right now I'd have to get the XD, only because the Sig costs too much. :D One pistol that feels superb in my hand is the CZ 75 P-06. I'd like to shoot one some time.
Do you have any good poop on the service life of the M&P .40?
Not from personal experience. I know that Smith, in controlled tests, has plenty of guns well over 20k ... but whether that means 25k or 40k I couldn't tell you.
Thanks for all the info, I am going to start looking for a deal on a M&P and give it a go I do believe. What is a good concealment holster for one of theese?
John_Wayne777
12-29-08, 23:04
Raven Concealment Systems is the carry gear I use daily.
DANGER CLOSE
12-30-08, 06:46
of the various popular .40s out there that i have tried, i settled on the m&p 40 which works for me. in the other hand i would not discount the glock, and i am no big fan of glock, but it works. a local sheriff's office here uses the glock 23 compensated with light mount and using subsonic defensive loads with flawless reports. could it just be the combination?
gtmtnbiker98
12-30-08, 12:47
of the various popular .40s out there that i have tried, i settled on the m&p 40 which works for me. in the other hand i would not discount the glock, and i am no big fan of glock, but it works. a local sheriff's office here uses the glock 23 compensated with light mount and using subsonic defensive loads with flawless reports. could it just be the combination?
+1. I own both the M&P 40 FS and the M&P 40c and the M&P 40c is my EDC. Love it!!
sigmundsauer
12-30-08, 15:35
All pistols have their positive and negative attributes. None are perfect. That said I think either a SIG P226/9 or an HK P2000 in .40 are sound choices. Both platforms performed very well in the homeland security test protocol, which was pretty demanding. Tests of this nature tend to separate the wheat from the chaff....or the professional grade weapons from the commercial.
I tend to favor accuracy, reliability, and durability over more subjective shooting qualities often found in lesser pistols, as adequate training and practice can cut the distance between designs considerably but it's hard to make up for mechanical/design shortcomings.
Sure will be nice when you can get world-class reliability, accuracy, durability in a pistol that also forfeits nothing in shootability. Still looking, although I find [small] size an increasingly more meaningful characteristic to my lifestyle.
My personal choice in .40 is an HK P2000 with LEM. I have been tremendously pleased with this pistol. Size, accuracy, reliability, and simplicity of manual of arms are exceptional. It does sacrifice some level of speed, though, but only what could be measured by a tenth of a second or so.
Tim
OK this may sound a bit odd, of all my gun the 40 that has impressed me most is a FN Hi-Power (in .40 of course). I've only had a few range sessions with it and come away amazed with the tight group it shoots.
The sad part is that is such a nice looking satin blue finish that I hate to take it out. It's a real beaut! I do get hammer bite from time to time when shooting, aside from that it's sweet. I even considered as a carry gun because I can shoot it so well, but it just too beautiful for that.
juat thought I'd share.
Oh, and to answer the question... just like most things, there is not single "best" for everyone. It will depend on what you want to use it for (carry, range, competition... etc.), and you personal taste.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb141/RojasTKD/MyFNs029.jpg
Jack_Stroker
01-05-09, 10:17
I've only ever owned or fired one .40S&W hand gun. (Not a huge fan of the caliber.) It was a Springfield Armory XD-40. Great gun. I rather enjoyed shooting it. I sold it because there was something else I wanted at the time and sacrificed it for funds. Additionally, by dropping the XD-40 I consolidated my semi-auto handgun calibers down to two. 9mm and .45ACP. I later missed having an XD, so I bought an XD-45. I now own two of them but that's another story.
I've been thinking about getting another .40S&W handgun just for the hell of it. Here is what I've been looking at:
Beretta 96 -Classic weapon. The Beretta 92FS is a favorite of mine, so the same gun in .40S&W is appealing.
XD-40 -While I liked my XD-40, it has a really low round count compared to newer .40S&W pistols. This is also a problem with the Beretta 96, but it isn't a deal breaker.
Baby Eagle -I've fired this gun in 9mm and my girlfriend LOVED this gun in .40S&W. If I buy one of these it will be for her, and I'll fire it occasionally.
Beretta Vertec 96 -Same Beretta with an improved grip and accessory rail. The largest con here is the price.
Beretta 90-Two -Improved version of the Beretta 96 with a higher capacity magazine.
XD-M -This is probably my leading choice. I love the XD and this is an improved version of that. 16 rounds in a .40S&W magazine is pretty impressive.
Weapons I've looked at and eliminated:
H&K USP .40 -Eliminated due to the magazine release being in an awkward location when operating the weapon one handed.
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