The Land Cruiser might be making a comeback to the US

[Hank6046]

Interesting news out of Toyota recently, and I remember that this board was interested in the lack of the Land Cruiser nameplate in the US

According to Motor Trend, the sales chief for Toyota Motor North America has hinted about a comeback.

“Will we ever? I would say likely yes,” Jack Hollis, the sales chief for Toyota Motor North America, told Motor Trend.

However the high-ranking executive declined to give a timeline and said that information would have to wait.

The following article and discussion at TFL on Youtube give a good overview of possibilities.

https://www.drive.com.au/news/the-toyota-landcruiser-could-be-heading-back-to-the-usa-report/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UG1SL2rA7VM

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Just saw that and had watched the TFL video. Lot’s of conjecture, but it sure seems like the Toyota guy said it was coming back. I do like the idea of a third Toyota “brand”- Toyota itself, Lexus for luxury, and “Land Cruiser” for true(er) off road vehicles.

Lexus/Toyota must see the number of GX SUVs out there that people butch up for 4x4 stuff. And Lexus IS definately going urban with that fugly front end style.

Maybe that is why the 4Runner has been so delayed (among other things). Use that to launch the third wheel in 2024 and then bring the real Land Crusier in 2025 or so.

I’m still in line for an Ineos Grenadier. Sat in the early production model here in CO late summer. They have video of them coming off the production line and people have seen them being shipped on car-carrier trucks in the EU. We still won’t see them until late 2024, and I’ll probably have to put up or shut up mid summer.

My thoughts have been that they’ll screw with the 4Runner and bitch-i-fy it, but a Land Cruiser, now you have my attention.

My son wants me to get a 392 Wrangler…. My daughter is going to need a car, and she was initially interested in the new VW Bus, but she says it is ugly. Now she is thinking a Jeep or maybe a Bronco. Girl needs to figure out left turns first. Glad she has about a year on her permit before she can get her license….


Didn’t Grant get a sweet black LC a few years ago?

[markm]

Hopefully it comes back at $85k minimum so no one who actually gets dirty will enjoy it!

[Hank6046]

I’m still in line for an Ineos Grenadier. Sat in the early production model here in CO late summer. They have video of them coming off the production line and people have seen them being shipped on car-carrier trucks in the EU. We still won’t see them until late 2024, and I’ll probably have to put up or shut up mid summer.

Thats f*ing cool, never heard of them before can I ask a ballpark on my much they cost?

I'm looking to get rid of my 16 Sierra, which has been decent but it is out of warranty, and every GM owner has told me that they are great, so long as they are under a warranty. I have been looking at a Suburban/ Tahoe but actually got a line on a 14 LX570 with only 130k miles for a decent price, but its going to need work and I don't know if I have the bandwidth right now to get it where I want.

[One More Time]

It would be cool if we could get the same ones ss the rest of the world.
But we never get the good ones or what I would want.

I'll just keep making do with my 91 FJ80

[Adrenaline_6]

An auto engineer who has his own YT channel usually makes pretty accurate guesses is thinking that it might not be the full LC 300 that comes here. He is thinking it would make more sense that they bring the new LC Prado which the US has never got - we got the Lexus GX. We already have the LX600 for a few thousand dollars more. It doesn't make sense to compete with it and that is why the LC didn't sell too well here. The Prado makes more sense because it already being redesigned and should have a nice, new rugged look to compete in it's own price gap. Probably somewhere above or below the Sequoia.

He is surmising that this might be the reason why Toyota keeps pushing the 4Runner redesign back.

Sounds like a good theory.

The Grand Highlander will be out soon too.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Thats f*ing cool, never heard of them before can I ask a ballpark on my much they cost?

I'm looking to get rid of my 16 Sierra, which has been decent but it is out of warranty, and every GM owner has told me that they are great, so long as they are under a warranty. I have been looking at a Suburban/ Tahoe but actually got a line on a 14 LX570 with only 130k miles for a decent price, but its going to need work and I don't know if I have the bandwidth right now to get it where I want.

Not sure on cost, probably find out the price next March or so. Hard to tell from EU/UK/AUS prices, but somewhere between a 4RUnner and a G-wagon? Big range. I think it will be under $100k. Have to see how options affect it, because I want as few options (electronics) as I can get. We’ll get at least a year of overseas use before mine would show up. Kind of off the shelf engine/transmission/drivetrain.


An auto engineer who has his own YT channel usually makes pretty accurate guesses is thinking that it might not be the full LC 300 that comes here. He is thinking it would make more sense that they bring the new LC Prado which the US has never got - we got the Lexus GX. We already have the LX600 for a few thousand dollars more. It doesn't make sense to compete with it and that is why the LC didn't sell too well here. The Prado makes more sense because it already being redesigned and should have a nice, new rugged look to compete in it's own price gap. Probably somewhere above or below the Sequoia.

He is surmising that this might be the reason why Toyota keeps pushing the 4Runner redesign back.

Sounds like a good theory.

The Grand Highlander will be out soon too.

Toyota has a serious branding and positioning issue with their SUVs. Seems to me that Toyota should go against the GMC/Chevy Tahoe/suburbans (mass market 4x4). Lexus against the Caddy and BMW (Luxury). And a Land Cruiser brand against above Jeep to the G-wagon (“Serious” off-road capable).

Move the 4RUnner into Land Cruiser- though I bet they get some POC and use the 4RUnner name on it ala Jeep crap. So the LC brand would have an FJ to full size land crusier.

That way you can use hybrid and low-carbon engines for the Toyota and Lexus and real engines for the more niche Land Cruiser brand.

[One More Time]

I told my wife that if we win the lottery, we're moving overseas so I can have a 70 series.

https://youtu.be/yMp8tJL7zGs

[czgunner]

Please tell me its not some worthless turd electric or hybrid.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

[fedupflyer]

It would be cool if we could get the same ones ss the rest of the world.
But we never get the good ones or what I would want.

I'll just keep making do with my 91 FJ80

When I lived over in the middle east a buddy of mine had one and I actually liked it
That was one of two Japanese vehicles I wished we could get here in the US.
The other one one is the Hilux.

I am surprise that Nissan doesn't sell the Patrol here in the US to compete with Jeep.

[OutofBatt3ry]

Hopefully it comes back at $85k minimum so no one who actually gets dirty will enjoy it!

FR. If I had the money, it'd be a G500, or a Range. Why do retired boomers keep driving up the price of slow and worn-out 30 y/o Toyotas they never use. Same could be said about 1/2 million dollar homes in the ghetto close to the freeway.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

The story is that Mercedes wanted to kill the Gwagon so they kept on raising the price- and people kept on buying it- and then it was making so much money that they couldn’t kill it.

It may sound odd, but a G-wagon at $150k is ‘cheap’ when you consider the exotics that you might also be looking at - like a 911 GT3 or Panamera. You can have a multi-car wreck of just Range Rovers or X5s or Cayenne in my neighborhood. An X5 is literally the ‘staff car’ for my neighborhood. The carried interest or bonus didn’t work out this year and the GT3 has to wait? Console yourself with a G wagon that is actually fairly useful and won’t get you confused with the neighbors nanny dropping kids off at the country club for skating lessons.

I’ve made one bad financial decision in my life, and have bought nothing sensible cars and not a new car since 2003. I told my wife that I’m due for a ‘flyer’. And if the Ineos Grenadier works out like a 1993 NAS 110 Defender- awesome. If it is complete train wreck, it will look nice on the curb.

[flenna]

I keep thinking I want a nice, newer off-road capable SUV. But when I think of a $1000/month car payment I think I’ll just continue to drive my 2015 Xterra.

[chuckman]

Hopefully it comes back at $85k minimum so no one who actually gets dirty will enjoy it!

Jack Carr has blown the shit out of that hope thanks to his novels. Now every tattooed bro vet tactisexual will have one to drive to Walmart.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

My parents had a late 90s Isuzu Trooper that I didn’t appreciate until they got rid of it. It was the model that was old as an Acura too. Bi fold back doors, high cieling for good vis, OK power, shift-on-the-fly 4x4. And it was the perfect size- bigger than the Jeep GRand Cherokee that I bought later, and smaller than a Tahoe- but with good storage. The back seat also reclined nicely. Wish I had bought it off them.

[Corse]

Please tell me its not some worthless turd electric or hybrid.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

I would bet there will be a hybrid similar to the new tundra.

Hybrids still make the most sense over pure electric and should be the near future for cars, EVs are…dumb.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

The ICE, Hybrid and EV are all interesting, from a technology and marketing perspective.

A plug in, or even self-powered, hybrid is pretty interesting from fuel savings to actual power put down. People want to push the ‘green’, but I think that they should call them ‘dual-fuel’ and show people how they can save money on gas by using electric. The issue is that the cars are more expensive and it takes awhile if not forever to make up the difference. The other angle would be in trucks where you coulld compare them to diesel-electric locomotives. I know not the same model of power, but the idea that if an ICE/E-engine is good enough for that heavy operation,…

I still think on the performance car side, the ultimate would be a hybrid with a high reving (9000+) I-6 small displacement engine driving the rear wheels, with a small battery packand electric motors driving the front wheels.

Cars like the Plaid on one hand an a CTS-V on the other are frankly too powerful and fast to enjoy outside of 5% of the time. Get something that makes thearatrics and noise at more normal speeds when you want, with Hybrid front power at low power demand to keep fuel economy up. And the ultimate performance with both systems running. The advantages of 4WD off the line, and also the ability to sculpt the road handling.

[pinzgauer]

I had two FJ55 wagons, spent a lot of time driving an FJ40, and co-owned an FJ80 with my son while he was at West point and ranger School.

While the last generation of Land cruisers sold in the US were still capable vehicles, they had already started chasing the luxury stuff almost to the point that only the axles and chassis share DNA with the original Land Cruisers.

While the running gear was not as tough, my FJ cruiser in spirit had a lot more in common with the original Land cruisers then the last Land cruiser sold in the US.

Our product any reintroduce Land cruiser will be chasing G wagon and Range Rover market and will be so expensive and scalped that it's almost meaningless.

To put it in perspective, one dealer locally had a G wagon for $125K, with an additional 120K market adjustment.

Just stupid.

Then again, Subaru forester's with the exact same configuration and miles as my 2020 are selling for more used than what I paid out the door knew even including taxes.

I routinely see people with $100k Jeeps, and the broncos are right up there.

[Coal Dragger]

Toyota could bring the 300 Series LC but it would have the same problem as the 200 Series: the Lexus LX600 costs only a smidge more. The Lexus LX has outsold the LC since inception.

Toyota has been steadily screwing up their trucks and body on frame SUV’s in the North American market. So I have tremendous confidence that whatever they do, it will be timed horribly, and not be the product we want.

[pinzgauer]

Toyota has been steadily screwing up their trucks and body on frame SUV’s in the North American market. So I have tremendous confidence that whatever they do, it will be timed horribly, and not be the product we want.

I can't remember if it was this year or next that they merge the running gear between the Tacoma and the Tundra. Which to me carried the worst attributes of both.

As to why boomers are buying up the land cruisers, it's because the FJ80s are drying up, and the FJ60s and FJ55s had real bad problems with rust in the A&B pillars.

So not as many survivors. I couldn't tell you the last time I've seen an FJ55 on the road. I do see some FJ60s, but a lot of them are rusty.

They will never make the 2F Land cruiser engine again due to emissions.

So any we get will be a gas hog V8 shared with the Lexus or some weird variant. Heaven forbid it's a V6.

I enjoyed the FJ cruiser the 2-3 years I had it. It was good off-road, but it was not a super strong drivetrain like the Land cruiser. And the 4.0 V6 was just okay.

[One More Time]

I seen a pig running around a couple months ago, wasn't much left of it though. Those were pretty cool.
I never did take a liking to the 200 series, dumped the 80 and gave us that.

Getting internal parts for the 2f and 2fe is down to forklift shops now as they were used in them.
Heads went poof though, crack one and it's game over.
A buddy just sourced one for his 2fe, used with no valves.

Mine still runs well but it is a gutless wonder. If it ever craps out I'll just swing a 5.3 Vortec in it.
But I've been thinking that for almost 15 years and it just broke 180K so it may be a bit longer.

I started out looking for a 60 but after driving all over creation looking at basket cases I went looking for an 80 and drove all over the place again.
I was wanting a 93 or later to get the full floating rear axle but found the 91 in great shape with low miles that had a bad engine.
Told the guy it sounded like it just had a rocker arm that was way out of adjustment but he was adamant it was a hydraulic lifter so I gave him 3K and drove it home.
Stopped and picked up a valve cover gasket and adjusted the valves right after I got home while it was still hot.
Everyone else on the planet does the valve adjust when cold. Toyota just has to be different.

My daughter is starting to drive and wants to run it, but at 10 MPG that may not work out so well.

[Adrenaline_6]

It won't have a V8. It they bring the Landcruiser Prado instead of the full Landcruiser 300, it will be a detuned version of the V6 twin turbo like in the Tundra.

This would make the most sense. Go where the demand is right now.

[Coal Dragger]

I can't remember if it was this year or next that they merge the running gear between the Tacoma and the Tundra. Which to me carried the worst attributes of both.

As to why boomers are buying up the land cruisers, it's because the FJ80s are drying up, and the FJ60s and FJ55s had real bad problems with rust in the A&B pillars.

So not as many survivors. I couldn't tell you the last time I've seen an FJ55 on the road. I do see some FJ60s, but a lot of them are rusty.

They will never make the 2F Land cruiser engine again due to emissions.

So any we get will be a gas hog V8 shared with the Lexus or some weird variant. Heaven forbid it's a V6.

I enjoyed the FJ cruiser the 2-3 years I had it. It was good off-road, but it was not a super strong drivetrain like the Land cruiser. And the 4.0 V6 was just okay.

To bring you up to speed on the current Toyota light truck and SUV lineup I’ll give a run down:

1.) The new platform is TNGA-F, and it was launched with the new Land Cruiser 300 in late 2021. Followed by the Tundra, and then the Sequoia for ‘22, and ‘23 respectively.

2.) TNGA-F architecture underpins the new Land Cruiser, LX600, Toyota Tundra, and Toyota Sequoia currently. So the full size component of this Toyota New Global Architecture is out.

3.) Toyota is using common engines among all the products on the new architecture, albeit we only get one of the choices in North America: a 3.4L twin turbo V6 in various states of tune known as the V35A-FTS ‘21 variant. This is found in the Tundra, Sequoia, and the LX600. The two Toyota’s both offer (Tundra) or come standard with (Sequoia) a hybrid pairing with this engine.

4.) The base Tundra SR has this engine tuned to 348HP @5200 RPM, and 405ft-lbs of torque @2000 RPM.

The SR5 through 1794 see this engine making 389HP @5200 RPM, and 479ft-lbs of torque @2400 RPM.

In the Lexus LX600 it makes 409HP @5200 RPM, and 479ft-lbs of torque @2000 RPM. The Land Cruiser 300 also shares these figures worldwide.

The hybrid variant in the Sequoia and optional in Limited and up Tundras makes 437HP @5200 RPM, and 583ft-lbs of torque @2400 RPM.

5.) All of these engines are paired with a 10 speed automatic transmission.

6.) Axles, frames, running gear, suspension geometry etc are pretty much identical in construction and execution across the board. For example the Tundra rear axle is coil sprung now like the LC.

7.) We’re still waiting on the Land Cruiser Prado, Lexus GX, Toyota 4Runner, Toyota Tacoma, and the Hilux on the new platform to show up. Rumor is that the Tacoma, and 4Runner are probably going to turbocharged I4’s.

[chuckman]

Shoot, I'd be happy with a Hilux technical. Gun optional.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

https://youtu.be/Dp5coc9exZg

Sounds good until you get to the 'powertrain' in that it a 2.4L turbo with a 40HP NiMH electric motor..... Supposedly the NiMH being older tech is more reliable...

It all sounds good, but it is NOT a Land Crusier in the historical sense, or at least the last model. A lot smaller. It will start at about $55k. Seems way to close to the 4Runner. Center and read diff lock. Full time 4Hi, with 4LO. Seems pretty good out of the box, except for the weak underside protection and the engine.

If they had said that this was the next FJ I would have believed it more.

[Coal Dragger]

Pretty disappointed with what I’m seeing. I expected more from something badged as a Land Cruiser. This is more appropriate as a new 4Runner.

Fortunately the upcoming Lexus GX550 looks good, but will be more $$$. At least the Lexus is rocking the 3.4L TTV6 and 10 speed with full time 4X4 and a rear locker on the Overtrail model. That will be the one to get if you can in my opinion.

[ST911]

Diesel Hilux, please.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

If I remember correctly, only an eight speed transmission also. I thought 10 was the new standard, especially for a new vehicle. I think the most interesting thing about it is the size. Smaller than the last Land Cruiser and then definitely smaller than the Tahoe sized vehicles that I drive now. Having one of these in the city would be a lot easier to deal with than the full-size SUVs.

[Adrenaline_6]

Like I mentioned way earlier. It is the LC Prado. The US never got the Prado before...just the Lexus GX. Now we have both of those but not the LC 300. If one does not want the 4 cylinder turbo hybrid, which has less hp then my 200 series but +60 lbs more torque, you get the GX which has the twin turbo V6.

Awesome that all trims come standard with center and rear diff locks.

[Coal Dragger]

You can get the LC300 here, it’s the new Lexus LX600… which looks atrocious and would need major bumper modifications up front to make it do Land Cruiser things.

[Coal Dragger]

My anger at not getting the V35A-FTS in this Land Cruiser is starting to subside.

Stepping back a moment, and considering the specs on paper I am forced to ask myself a few questions:

1.) If this gasoline 2.4L I4 Turbo hybrid were instead the 2.8L I4 Diesel the rest of the world gets, and it made 326HP, and 465ft-lbs of torque at very low RPM like this hybrid while getting an estimated 27MPG combined; would I still be mad?

The answer is no, I would be clamoring for a dealer to take my money. Because this is pretty much a diesel power curve, and diesel fuel economy without the ass pain of diesel emissions equipment and maintenance. I could buy one and leave it sitting at the depot in Edgemont in January at -32 for a day or two get back at 0200 and have it start right up. Something a diesel can’t be counted on to do.

2.) Do I have any other objections to the new Land Cruiser 250 aka Prado?

My answer is the Land Cruiser has no deal breakers. Aside from reduced towing capacity, which I don’t do a lot of and if I were to start would use a truck for anyway. I don’t care about the lack of a 3rd row. I am generally happy with the size, and 4X4 system although I wish it had KDSS.

3.) Could I be happy daily driving a 2024 Land Cruiser for 10+ years?

Probably. As long as the seats are comfortable, it’s dead nuts reliable, has true off road and inclement weather chops, has good road manners, is fairly quiet with a good audio system, and has great headlights. All of which it probably will.

So I await pricing, options, and colors with a more open mind.

[Adrenaline_6]

My anger at not getting the V35A-FTS in this Land Cruiser is starting to subside.

Stepping back a moment, and considering the specs on paper I am forced to ask myself a few questions:

1.) If this gasoline 2.4L I4 Turbo hybrid were instead the 2.8L I4 Diesel the rest of the world gets, and it made 326HP, and 465ft-lbs of torque at very low RPM like this hybrid while getting an estimated 27MPG combined; would I still be mad?

The answer is no, I would be clamoring for a dealer to take my money. Because this is pretty much a diesel power curve, and diesel fuel economy without the ass pain of diesel emissions equipment and maintenance. I could buy one and leave it sitting at the depot in Edgemont in January at -32 for a day or two get back at 0200 and have it start right up. Something a diesel can’t be counted on to do.

2.) Do I have any other objections to the new Land Cruiser 250 aka Prado?

My answer is the Land Cruiser has no deal breakers. Aside from reduced towing capacity, which I don’t do a lot of and if I were to start would use a truck for anyway. I don’t care about the lack of a 3rd row. I am generally happy with the size, and 4X4 system although I wish it had KDSS.

3.) Could I be happy daily driving a 2024 Land Cruiser for 10+ years?

Probably. As long as the seats are comfortable, it’s dead nuts reliable, has true off road and inclement weather chops, has good road manners, is fairly quiet with a good audio system, and has great headlights. All of which it probably will.

So I await pricing, options, and colors with a more open mind.

The good thing is the GX and new LC now have the tried and true 112.2" wheelbase that all LC's share. If you really want KDSS, you would have to go with the new GX Overtrail. E-KDSS to be more exact. Better than the original KDSS. Although, you would be also getting the twin turbo V6. not the turbo 4 hybrid.

The 1958 edition is said to be starting in mid $50K. I like the retro look of that version. Since all editions come standard with locking center and rear diffs. You can just modify away when the aftermarket spools up.

[Coal Dragger]

If GX550 Overtrail pricing isn’t pants on head retarded I’ll probably look to go that route. I was hopeful that E-KDSS or KDSS would at least be an option on the new LC, same for the V35A-FTS/10 speed combo.

Oh well gotta de-content the new LC to protect GX sales. Too bad the nearest Lexus dealer is like 5 hours away, whatever I’ve got one Lexus to do maintenance on already… (my mom lives with us and she has a ‘21 RX350) might as well have another one.

The GX550 is such a home run on paper at least that I had high hopes for the new Land Cruiser. As it is the new GX is better in my opinion than a Land Cruiser 200 series, or the new LX600 for my uses.

[Adrenaline_6]

If GX550 Overtrail pricing isn’t pants on head retarded I’ll probably look to go that route. I was hopeful that E-KDSS or KDSS would at least be an option on the new LC, same for the V35A-FTS/10 speed combo.

Oh well gotta de-content the new LC to protect GX sales. Too bad the nearest Lexus dealer is like 5 hours away, whatever I’ve got one Lexus to do maintenance on already… (my mom lives with us and she has a ‘21 RX350) might as well have another one.

The GX550 is such a home run on paper at least that I had high hopes for the new Land Cruiser. As it is the new GX is better in my opinion than a Land Cruiser 200 series, or the new LX600 for my uses.

I think the GX Overtrail will fit in the 75k range. Any higher and you are in Sequoia TRD PRO then LX600 range. The unused gap right now for Lexus SUV's is that 75k one. Makes the most sense.
The new 4Runner when released should be right below the new LC probably coming standard with the same engine as LC but no hybrid. . Then the GX, then Sequoia, then LX600.

You would of course have to wait for the stupid consumer rush that over inflates pricing to subside, but that is fine because any minor problems usually get found out during that time anyway and allows Toyota to fix them.

[Coal Dragger]

A GX Overtrail at $75K would be great, my guess is it will be closer to $80K.

That can still probably work, I’ll just do maintenance on my 2007 Tundra and make repairs as needed to keep it on the road instead buying a new 1/2 ton that could easily approach $70K anyway. For that kind of coin I’d rather daily drive something else anyway, and the GX550 will be way better in bad weather and off road than a 1/2 ton pickup.

The old truck is dinged and dented, starting to show some rust, and the paint is failing. So it’s now a great work truck to actually do truck stuff and not feel guilty about it.

[Adrenaline_6]

A GX Overtrail at $75K would be great, my guess is it will be closer to $80K.

That can still probably work, I’ll just do maintenance on my 2007 Tundra and make repairs as needed to keep it on the road instead buying a new 1/2 ton that could easily approach $70K anyway. For that kind of coin I’d rather daily drive something else anyway, and the GX550 will be way better in bad weather and off road than a 1/2 ton pickup.

The old truck is dinged and dented, starting to show some rust, and the paint is failing. So it’s now a great work truck to actually do truck stuff and not feel guilty about it.

Yup...always good to have an "old beater" that cosmetically you don't care about, but still runs like a top.