View Full Version : NYT America’s Toxic Gun Culture
A nice editorial from the NYT:
“A growing number of American civilians have an unhealthy obsession with “tactical culture” and rifles like the AR-15. It’s a fringe movement among the 81 million American gun owners, but it is one of several alarming trends that have coincided with the increase in political violence in this country, along with the spread of far-right extremist groups, an explosion of anti-government sentiment and the embrace of deranged conspiracy theories by many Republican politicians. Understanding how these currents feed one another is crucial to understanding and reversing political violence and right-wing extremism.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/10/opinion/america-gun-violence.html?smtyp=cur&smid=tw-nytopinion
There are a few toxic cultures that are destroying this country but the “gun” culture is not one of them.
titsonritz
12-10-22, 18:30
So, 81 million equates to "fringe"? Wasn't that the alleged number of Biden votes in 2020? As if anything credible come out the the NYT.
Straight Shooter
12-10-22, 18:45
TARGET #1 in the next CW..IF there is one.
Diamondback
12-10-22, 19:06
And the NYT has an unhealthy obsession with sticking its dick balls-deep into a hornet's nest and poking sleeping bears with sticks.
“A growing number of American civilians have an unhealthy obsession with “socialism” and media outlets like the New York Times. It’s a fringe movement among the millions American leftists, but it is one of several alarming trends that have coincided with the increase in political violence in this country, along with the spread of far-left extremist groups, an explosion of anti-American sentiment and the embrace of deranged conspiracy theories by many Deomcratic politicians. Understanding how these currents feed one another is crucial to understanding and reversing political violence and left-wing extremism.”
So, 81 million equates to "fringe"? Wasn't that the alleged number of Biden votes in 2020? As if anything credible come out the the NYT.
It says it's a fringe movement among the 81 million gun owners. The left and the media are in it for the long game. There already existed a split among many gun owners and the AR crowd. They will continue to drive that wedge as long as it takes. It's worth following Facebook, Instagram and Twitter to see what we're up against. The comment sections are replete with gun owners that think 10 rounds is just fine, a real concealed carry guy only needs one shot with a revolver and why do AR guys need 30 rounds to kill a buck. I bet that less than 10% of those 81 million gun owners give two shits about the 2nd Amendment. By definition that is the fringe, and it's all of us that take concealed carry, self defense and AR's seriously. We are the enemy.
I think it’s time for the NYT to hold up a giant mirror and do stories on the unhealthy obsession with toxic media, starting with themselves.
BoringGuy45
12-10-22, 22:10
It says it's a fringe movement among the 81 million gun owners. The left and the media are in it for the long game. There already existed a split among many gun owners and the AR crowd. They will continue to drive that wedge as long as it takes. It's worth following Facebook, Instagram and Twitter to see what we're up against. The comment sections are replete with gun owners that think 10 rounds is just fine, a real concealed carry guy only needs one shot with a revolver and why do AR guys need 30 rounds to kill a buck. I bet that less than 10% of those 81 million gun owners give two shits about the 2nd Amendment. By definition that is the fringe, and it's all of us that take concealed carry, self defense and AR's seriously. We are the enemy.
I'm calling BS and saying that many of those are plants and frauds. From my experience and observation, fudds have largely been run out of the gun community. Go into any gun store these days and talk about banning "assault weapons", and it'll be like the scene in The Patriot where Mel Gibson goes into the tavern and says "God save King George!" Even at rod and gun clubs, which are normally the bastion of fudds, most guys are fiercely against bans on ARs, even if they don't care for ARs themselves. This has just been my observation, and I live in a blue state! Even most liberal gun owners I know are opposed to gun bans.
Also, the vast majority of gun owners who are reading NYT and other leftist media are going to be from the small faction of leftist fudds, so of course they're going to be over represented in the comments sections. I don't think the gun community is at all "split" at this point. 10-15 years ago? Maybe. But now, fudds are a small and shrinking faction from what I've observed. We're not the fringe; we're the mainstream of gun owners. The gun ban faction is the fringe.
I'm calling BS and saying that many of those are plants and frauds. From my experience and observation, fudds have largely been run out of the gun community. Go into any gun store these days and talk about banning "assault weapons", and it'll be like the scene in The Patriot where Mel Gibson goes into the tavern and says "God save King George!" Even at rod and gun clubs, which are normally the bastion of fudds, most guys are fiercely against bans on ARs, even if they don't care for ARs themselves. This has just been my observation, and I live in a blue state! Even most liberal gun owners I know are opposed to gun bans.
Also, the vast majority of gun owners who are reading NYT and other leftist media are going to be from the small faction of leftist fudds, so of course they're going to be over represented in the comments sections. I don't think the gun community is at all "split" at this point. 10-15 years ago? Maybe. But now, fudds are a small and shrinking faction from what I've observed. We're not the fringe; we're the mainstream of gun owners. The gun ban faction is the fringe.
They aren't plants and frauds. They walk among us and always have in the gun community.
I've basically left my local gun range due to the fact that there are plenty of people there that have no clue what "shall not infringe" means. I have been horribly disappointed the last two years. I was encouraged recently when a borough (our version of a county) referendum was passed banning any decisions on regulating gun ranges be left to a popular vote. This removed the power of the borough planning commission from regulating gun ranges. That is a good thing. Strangely enough, gun ranges were constantly stopped at every turn, regardless of how rural they were, by the NIMBY fudds that wear pro-2nd shirts but don't walk the walk. We'll see if that changes.
I was also encouraged with a visit to rural Maryland in November. I found quite a few gun guys there that blatantly waved the middle finger to Maryland gun laws. It did my heart good.
Also on the flip side, getting constitutional carry has made huge strides in the last decade. But, I still am wary of those willing to stab us in the back when it becomes convenient.
FromMyColdDeadHand
12-11-22, 00:37
Toxic gun culture is on the left, not the right. And their no-holds-barred push to take our guns has just given us that Spartan resolve to resist- and then you end up with Bruen. Now, the left laments that we don’t have a registration system or a Swiss type system… But now isn’t the time. Maybe 15 years ago we could have come to some kind of baby NFA by restricting people and not guns. But the left didn’t want that, they wanted to go full-retard and actually come for guns, you can see that in BETO and now Biden. They still haven’t realized that the came is up after Bruen- which worries me because I think that they are just going to continue on with their plan. Remember, their battle cry is “Democracy”, not ‘Freedom’. ORegon 114 is a great example of that - and frankly even in OR it barely passed. Democracy at odds with our rights.
So the left’s extreme push on guns has lead to their nightmare scenario, that they are screaming irrationally against.
So they double down on dumb and insult the people with the whip hand with crap like this. 20th century gun control is DEAD. They will have to try to grab control with some other premise. ‘Safety’ and ‘for the children’ isn’t going to work anymore. SCOTUS and Bruen have made that clear. And if they try to use their shenanigans to get around it- pack the court or something else to usurp the reality- and it just shows what they are really up to.
“A growing number of American civilians have an unhealthy obsession with “socialism” and media outlets like the New York Times. It’s a fringe movement among the millions American leftists, but it is one of several alarming trends that have coincided with the increase in political violence in this country, along with the spread of far-left extremist groups, an explosion of anti-American sentiment and the embrace of deranged conspiracy theories by many Deomcratic politicians. Understanding how these currents feed one another is crucial to understanding and reversing political violence and left-wing extremism.”
Well done Steyr, mind if I copy and paste this to an email sent to the NYT!
We have a 6% demographic that is perpetrating half the murders and gun violence.
That is what's toxic.
Well done Steyr, mind if I copy and paste this to an email sent to the NYT!
By all means.
Its an "opinion" piece, meaning that NYT knows they cannot defend any part of the article as journalism.
Andy
We have a 6% demographic that is perpetrating half the murders and gun violence.
That is what's toxic.
You didn't specify so I have to guess. Is the 6% black folks? Because if so they are almost 14% of the population, Asians are 6%. Hispanics outnumber them at 19%.
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/PST045221
According to FBI stats for 2019.
White people account for 69% of crime and black people 27% for adult offenders.
For those under 18, white offenders are 62% and black offenders are 34%.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/topic-pages/tables/table-43
Not sure where you are getting your numbers.
Would be hard to qualify gun violence since it can be related to many crimes, but the only number you have that is accurate is murder numbers but white people aren't far behind.
Black offenders represent 51% of murder / manslaughter and whites are 45%. Under 18 the numbers are 50% and 47%.
You didn't specify so I have to guess. Is the 6% black folks? Because if so they are almost 14% of the population, Asians are 6%. Hispanics outnumber them at 19%.
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/PST045221
According to FBI stats for 2019.
White people account for 69% of crime and black people 27% for adult offenders.
For those under 18, white offenders are 62% and black offenders are 34%.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/topic-pages/tables/table-43
Not sure where you are getting your numbers.
6% because males commit the violent crimes and murders. Probably closer to 7% of the U.S. population are black males, but that assumes a 50/50 gender split.
Harpoon said murders and gun violence, not crime. Homicides are split so evenly between white and black male offenders its scary.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls9
It depends on final demographics what part of the US population are black males but about 49% of murders are committed by white males and 49% by black males.
Andy
I bet there is as much correlation, regardless of race, if your mom's a whore and your daddy is long gone. I haven't found any current studies, but in 1993 kids that never knew their father had the highest incarceration rates; kids that lived in father only homes had no statistical difference in incarceration rates from kids with two parent homes. You can take away guns, but we have a crime problem related to the destruction of the family unit.
“A growing number of American civilians have an unhealthy obsession with “socialism” and media outlets like the New York Times. It’s a fringe movement among the millions American leftists, but it is one of several alarming trends that have coincided with the increase in political violence in this country, along with the spread of far-left extremist groups, an explosion of anti-American sentiment and the embrace of deranged conspiracy theories by many Deomcratic politicians. Understanding how these currents feed one another is crucial to understanding and reversing political violence and left-wing extremism.”
Nice substitutions of words, and spot on. They are soooo hypocritical. The "Summer of Love" (2020) celebrating the life of St. George Floyd totally escapes their memory it appears. Shocked I tell ya......
That hypocrisy and smugness is exactly why we need to NEVER give up our RKBA.
It says it's a fringe movement among the 81 million gun owners. The left and the media are in it for the long game. There already existed a split among many gun owners and the AR crowd. They will continue to drive that wedge as long as it takes. It's worth following Facebook, Instagram and Twitter to see what we're up against. The comment sections are replete with gun owners that think 10 rounds is just fine, a real concealed carry guy only needs one shot with a revolver and why do AR guys need 30 rounds to kill a buck. I bet that less than 10% of those 81 million gun owners give two shits about the 2nd Amendment. By definition that is the fringe, and it's all of us that take concealed carry, self defense and AR's seriously. We are the enemy. Well to be fair they can FOAD.
Want to see them (and the Fudds) recoil in horror? Explain the true meaning of the 2nd Amendment and how it isn't about hunting or even self-defense (which of course is indeed a nice side benefit). When you point out what it's really meant for you become some conspiracy nutjob, a kook.
Want to see them (and the Fudds) recoil in horror? Explain the true meaning of the 2nd Amendment and how it isn't about hunting or even self-defense (which of course is indeed a nice side benefit). When you point out what it's really meant for you become some conspiracy nutjob, a kook.
yeah... our founding fathers hadn't just returned from deer hunting. They had just finished liberating a nation from tyranny.
FromMyColdDeadHand
12-11-22, 19:17
I was the only person out of 60 in my business law class that raised his hand when the Proff asked if people thought the 2A had the ‘re-boot’ reason. He was lefty back then, actually what we call a classic liberal now. He said that it was actually probably the real reason for it. He said that you have to look no further than the order of the amendments.
Freedom to tell off the govt.
Ability to defend that right
When you get your teeth kicked in, they can’t put troops in your house…
And on down when they come for you for acting against the govt. The 4th, 5th, and 6th isn’t for gangsters, it to keep a rebellion alive.
Ugly; yes. Needed; unfortunately.
The real kicker for the FUDDS is that MILLER didn’t protect ‘non-military’ arms, and that a select fire rifle was EXACTLY what the 2A was meant to cover.
I was the only person out of 60 in my business law class that raised his hand when the Proff asked if people thought the 2A had the ‘re-boot’ reason. He was lefty back then, actually what we call a classic liberal now. He said that it was actually probably the real reason for it. He said that you have to look no further than the order of the amendments.
Freedom to tell off the govt.
Ability to defend that right
When you get your teeth kicked in, they can’t put troops in your house…
And on down when they come for you for acting against the govt. The 4th, 5th, and 6th isn’t for gangsters, it to keep a rebellion alive.
Ugly; yes. Needed; unfortunately.
The real kicker for the FUDDS is that MILLER didn’t protect ‘non-military’ arms, and that a select fire rifle was EXACTLY what the 2A was meant to cover.
Exactly! I have always felt that the 1A is essentially the crux of the Constitution.....you can protest, bitch, tell them to FO, loudly state your opinion be it just you or via the media available, whatever. The 2A backs that up, it ensures that it will not be abrogated.
The_War_Wagon
12-11-22, 19:34
I read that headline as "New Yawkistan's toxic libtard culture." :haha:
6% because males commit the violent crimes and murders. Probably closer to 7% of the U.S. population are black males, but that assumes a 50/50 gender split.
Harpoon said murders and gun violence, not crime. Homicides are split so evenly between white and black male offenders its scary.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls9
It depends on final demographics what part of the US population are black males but about 49% of murders are committed by white males and 49% by black males.
Andy
So first problem, you split black into genders but then did comparables without doing the same thing for white offenders. You also also assuming a 50/50 split for blacks.
FromMyColdDeadHand
12-12-22, 00:30
You can parse out murders that way, but the reality is that isn’t the causal trigger - it is gang/drug violence that is the driver. That correlates with race, but race isn’t causing it.
You can parse out murders that way, but the reality is that isn’t the causal trigger - it is gang/drug violence that is the driver. That correlates with race, but race isn’t causing it.
Having been in South Florida for 30 years, let me assure you that many races are well represented in drug violence. Everyone just has their own turf. Black kids in black neighborhoods move these drugs, white adults in trailer parks move these drugs and bikers move these drugs. The one thing they all have in common is competition for the market and a devotion to violence to solve problems.
Hell I was also there in the early 80s when the established Italians, the newly arrived Cubans and the newly formed Jamaican posses fought a threeway drug war for the coke market. Young black males (except Jamaicans) were almost left out in the cold until crack hit the market mid 80s. Cubans and Italians went at it the hardest, the Italians simply couldn't accept that they might get displaced after running the show all the way back to the 1950s. Cubans simply hit them with a level of "broad daylight" violence that even the mafia was unaccustomed to.
In many was Scarface was a documentary. My family in 82/83 stopped going to some of our favorite Miami restaurants because of instances of guys getting hit during lunch by a couple guys with M10s. The Columbians were also strongly in play even though most people did not know it yet.
So first problem, you split black into genders but then did comparables without doing the same thing for white offenders. You also also assuming a 50/50 split for blacks.
I aplogize for the broken link. The 49% white murders does consider gender - I only listed murders by males period.
Andy
You can parse out murders that way, but the reality is that isn’t the causal trigger - it is gang/drug violence that is the driver. That correlates with race, but race isn’t causing it.
You are absolutely correct and I did not state or intend to imply race being the cause for the data. Correlation is not cause. I did not parse the numbers, BTW, the FBI did.
Andy
6% because males commit the violent crimes and murders. Probably closer to 7% of the U.S. population are black males, but that assumes a 50/50 gender split.
Harpoon said murders and gun violence, not crime. Homicides are split so evenly between white and black male offenders its scary.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls9
It depends on final demographics what part of the US population are black males but about 49% of murders are committed by white males and 49% by black males.
Andy
I just used the 6% demographic, guessing black males between the ages of 16-50.
They are committing most of the murders according to the latest FBI stats.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-3.xls
I wonder if any other country on earth has a small minority demographic that perpetrates most of the murders?
I just used the 6% demographic, guessing black males between the ages of 16-50.
They are committing most of the murders according to the latest FBI stats.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-3.xls
I wonder if any other country on earth has a small minority demographic that perpetrates most of the murders?
Black males do not commit most of the murders in the USA according to the newest data available from the FBI (hoping this link works) https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls
Black males and white males committed roughly the same number of murders.
The cause is not race - the "progressive" policies enacted to "help" African Americans created the culture that resulted in those numbers.
Andy
I'm not gonna dig through and link stats I have read. One cause I don't have the time/patience, two cause they are stats (lies, damn lies, statistics)
Black males, particularly black males 15-34, are wildly overrepresented both as perpetrators and victims of homicide and shootings. Now that does not mean that all or most of black males 15-34:are murderers/violent offenders. It simply means that there is some underlying causal factor(s) that disproportionately impact that demographic. I would certainly never propose nor accept that being a black male 15-34 IS the causal factor.
Middle age white men are disproportionately represented in suicides. Same holds true.
The solution is to find and attempt to remedy the causal factors free of political bias. I suspect that Gordian knot to remain intact. Neither party has real interest in solving the problem. The problem itself is too valuable a wedge issue.
It's a common trait in many of the problems facing our country and our world. I suspect the same has been true for most of our history.
I'm not gonna dig through and link stats I have read. One cause I don't have the time/patience, two cause they are stats (lies, damn lies, statistics)
Black males, particularly black males 15-34, are wildly overrepresented both as perpetrators and victims of homicide and shootings. Now that does not mean that all or most of black males 15-34:are murderers/violent offenders. It simply means that there is some underlying causal factor(s) that disproportionately impact that demographic. I would certainly never propose nor accept that being a black male 15-34 IS the causal factor.
Middle age white men are disproportionately represented in suicides. Same holds true.
The solution is to find and attempt to remedy the causal factors free of political bias. I suspect that Gordian knot to remain intact. Neither party has real interest in solving the problem. The problem itself is too valuable a wedge issue.
It's a common trait in many of the problems facing our country and our world. I suspect the same has been true for most of our history.
Great post!
Andy
Black males do not commit most of the murders in the USA according to the newest data available from the FBI (hoping this link works) https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls
Black males and white males committed roughly the same number of murders.
I believe it's "most murders, per capita". Not just the most.
And I don't think anyone here said race was the cause. I don't even think it was implied.
Black males do not commit most of the murders in the USA according to the newest data available from the FBI (hoping this link works) https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls
Black males and white males committed roughly the same number of murders.
The cause is not race - the "progressive" policies enacted to "help" African Americans created the culture that resulted in those numbers.
Andy
Actually, the link you posted shows that Blacks committed the most murders.
I just used the 6% demographic, guessing black males between the ages of 16-50.
They are committing most of the murders according to the latest FBI stats.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-3.xls
I wonder if any other country on earth has a small minority demographic that perpetrates most of the murders?
Most countries are not founded on integration the way the US is, so no. Most countries tend to practice racial genocide like Africa did with former European countries after the way, the way Europe and Japan did during the war.
Of all the global countries that criticize the US for their racial injustice, I'm hard pressed to think of a single one that practices racial integration on the level that the US does. There's a couple black dudes in the UK but that's about it. Just try to move to England from India, even if you have the money. If you aren't going there for a specific job offer because you have a specific educational background you can forget it.
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