View Full Version : US botched 35% of execution attempts this year
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/15/us-death-penalty-data-execution-attempts-botched
As 2022 draws to a close, a new grim distinction can be attached to it: in America it was the year of the botched execution.
In its annual review of US capital punishment, the Death Penalty Information Center (DPIC) reveals the astonishing statistic that 35% of the 20 execution attempts carried out this year were visibly problematic.
Several were agonisingly drawn out as officials tried to secure a vein through which to inject lethal drugs, leading lawyers to describe the process as a form of torture. Others were carried out in violation of state protocols. Some went ahead even though there were defects in those protocols themselves.
As a result of these severe hitches, seven execution attempts could be construed as having been botched. Such a high proportion of problematic executions points to a gathering storm over the practice of lethal injections, the dominant method of judicial killings in the US which this month mark its 40th anniversary.
For the record I’m against the death penalty for the simple fact our government isn’t sufficiently evolved enough to be trusted with the power of life and death over its citizens.
titsonritz
12-16-22, 13:16
#Bringbackfiringsquads
American Mediocrity is in everything we make/do! Why not executions too?
American Mediocrity is in everything we make/do! Why not executions too?
We could outsource them to the private sector...
Maybe Walmart or Amazon perhaps...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/15/us-death-penalty-data-execution-attempts-botched
For the record I’m against the death penalty for the simple fact our government isn’t sufficiently evolved enough to be trusted with the power of life and death over its citizens.
CP is one of the few controversial issues I have changed my mind on back and forth over the years, finally settling on against for the reason you state as well as others. However, if it exists, it's a mystery why they can't figure that one out. Vets have been putting animals down with no pain and close to 100% success for decades and decades. Overdose deaths reached a record high in 2021, over 100K deaths, mostly due to fentanyl. It's dirt cheap, massive dose = bye bye quickly and without pain, and done.
As is, they use chems that are very difficult to obtain and very $, because few companies want to be involved with producing chems that kill people.
This one is not rocket science.
Hanging worked here for over a couple hundred years.
john armond
12-16-22, 13:54
We could outsource them to the private sector...
Maybe Walmart or Amazon perhaps...
Get your in prison execution kit delivered direct through Amazon. Don’t forget to use Apple Pay!
Hanging worked here for over a couple hundred years.
I think that one had a pretty high rate of not going well I recall. Everything has to be set up perfectly to snap the neck and many times it did not. That's my recollection and one reason they looked for other routes, most of which also had high rates of failures like the sizzle chair and gas chambers etc.
FromMyColdDeadHand
12-16-22, 14:10
What complete BS. So DPIC (be careful googling that) criteria for a bad execution are if they had trouble finding a vein?
I understand the issues around CP, and frankly I wish we did it more so that we'd have to do it less... But I understand that there are issues around incorrect sentences, and that makes me OK if we didn't do it and just put people away. Except for the true killer Krazies that if they did happen to get out, would be an inherent threat to society. Wack those dudes.
Color me old and jaded.
To be sentenced to Death, one must perform exceptionally heinous crimes.
If the condemned suffers on the way OUT, just chalk it to Karma.
Many convicted murderers have been paroled or escaped only to murder again.
Executed murderers never commit another crime.
As I suspected, percentages in such small numbers are misleading. So 7 of 20 were botched. It isn't something they do very often and such a seldom used process is prone to mistakes.
SomeOtherGuy
12-16-22, 14:48
For the record I’m against the death penalty for the simple fact our government isn’t sufficiently evolved enough to be trusted with the power of life and death over its citizens.
This, 100%. Mixed feelings about whether past governments were better, but both state and federal have been an absolute cluster for decades now, with zero sign of improvement.
Michigan hasn't had a state death penalty for over 150 years, but actual life in prison without parole. It seems to work well enough. Obvious financial cost of keeping someone in prison for 50-60 years (since so many killers are 18-25) but the cost of typical appeals and BS with execution cases supposedly is greater.
It’s worse than misleading.
This is a bad faith attempt to bypass debate with an emotional response. This org would not change their opinion if a perfect method for execution was found.
I respond in kind. It is a form of torture to lock people up for life, so the quicker we execute these convicts the more humane we are.
Meh. Bring back gladiators. Fights to the death streamed pay per view. IE: Parkland shooter vs Q Club shooter with baseball bats. PPV and "off track wagering" commissions to help fund LE/corrections/APP budgets.
It’s worse than misleading.
This is a bad faith attempt to bypass debate with an emotional response. This org would not change their opinion if a perfect method for execution was found.
I respond in kind. It is a form of torture to lock people up for life, so the quicker we execute these convicts the more humane we are.
Pretty sure a bullet to the head would be a decent and reliable process. :)
Color me old and jaded.
To be sentenced to Death, one must perform exceptionally heinous crimes.
If the condemned suffers on the way OUT, just chalk it to Karma.I remember an Oklahoma inmate took hours to die and yelled it burned. Nobody stopped to think about the fact he raped a 13-14 month old baby that died from internal injuries among other depraved actions. He was sentenced to die and I did, it this case I could care less if it was peaceful, or him saying it burns could be confirmation hell exist.
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We could outsource them to the private sector...
Maybe Walmart or Amazon perhaps...
Justin of the North might be a sure bet...
… I could care less if it was peaceful, or him saying it burns could be confirmation hell exist.
Or he might have been making it up to get sympathy.
I’m opposed to intentionally inflicting more pain than necessary. I don’t care to make it perfectly and totally painless either.
I see it as modern day banishment from the tribe, not vengeance. They just don’t belong in our society anymore.
joedirt199
12-16-22, 16:53
Ever see a nurse try to inject a long time drug user? Those junkies got shit veins all collapsed and scared up. It they did more than 20 a year they would be more practiced and run smoother.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/15/us-death-penalty-data-execution-attempts-botched
For the record I’m against the death penalty for the simple fact our government isn’t sufficiently evolved enough to be trusted with the power of life and death over its citizens.
I’m of two minds on the death penalty (pro penalty, but .gov is too inept, corrupt and arrogant to administer it judicially), but the reason so many of these executions are “botched” is because anti death penalty advocates have queered every effective drug cocktail the states could use.
First they lawfared against every effective cocktail. Then they doxxed the manufacturers until they stopped providing them to the states. Now they coach these murderers on how to make themselves tough to kill, with tactics like dehydrating themselves to the point the execution teams can’t stick a vein because they’re all collapsed.
If the state manages to succeed in carrying out the sentence, they come out of the viewing and make sure everyone knows how gruesome the event was. The anti death penalty advocates want the successful executions to be as horrific and unpalatable as possible, in their war to end the death penalty.
We can have a discussion on whether the death penalty is just. We can have a discussion on whether states execute innocent people. But I refuse to have any discussion on whether the death penalty is “cruel and unusual punishment”. It’s only cruel and unusual because the pro murderers have made it that way.
If we had a trustworthy justice system the maximum prison sentence should be 20 years. Beyond that CP. And if we're going to have CP it should be public. In addition to justice it would serve as a deterrent.
That being said I don't trust the judicial system with justice at all.
We use to hang people very soon after being found guilty of the crimes of murder, rape, armed robbery, stealing horses or cattle, arson, cheating at cards.
Now days someone can murder 10 women and not even get the death penalty.
Try to get a law on the books that any falsification of evidence or failing to divulge exculpatory evidence resulting in a death penalty conviction nets the perp(s) a death penalty and see how much of a wail comes out of sectors that are currently staunch supporters.
Try to get a law on the books that any falsification of evidence or failing to divulge exculpatory evidence resulting in a death penalty conviction nets the perp(s) a death penalty and see how much of a wail comes out of sectors that are currently staunch supporters.
Like the POS cops who ended up having the Illinois death penalty revoked? Yeah, they should've paid the price I agree 100%. Too bad they didn't......
I support the death penalty if you are damn sure it's the right person. That in and of itself is a major hurdle to overcome. That said, in cases where there is no doubt then f*****g kill the bastards. No mercy. I also don't give a damn if they suffer. TFB.
Someone mentioned that it should be "especially heinous". Shooting a Quickie Mart clerk in the head after robbing the place to me qualifies. It doesn't have to be raping and killing an infant or other such sordid acts.
Insanity? F**k that. If you are indeed so cray-cray that you cold-bloodedly murder someone then you forfeit your right to breath air. To me there is NO insanity defense (mitigating factors not withstanding, like a father who molested his kid and the kid later snuffs him.....I can be reasonable).
There are a shit-ton of convicted murderers who should have been dead a LONG time ago.
ViniVidivici
12-16-22, 21:07
I'm more concerned that there were only 20 executions.
Methinks there are WAY more dirtbags that should be put down than that. WAY more.
I could give a rat's ass if they suffered some due to incompetence, or whatever.
So sick of this weak-assed Eloi clown world no-hurt-feelz mentality.
My state ALONE had way more than 20 pedophiles, murderers, and rapists who damn well should have been put down, I guarantee it.
I must admit I do share the concerns about .gov's ineptitude at determining guilt or innocence.....we've seen ample evidence of that.
But in my statement I refer to those obvious cases where there is truly no doubt, and there are MANY of those, in my state alone.
But in my statement I refer to those obvious cases where there is truly no doubt, and there are MANY of those, in my state alone.
I don't recall any convictions resulting in the death penalty that were portrayed as anything other than truly no doubt including the ones that were later exonerated.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/15/us-death-penalty-data-execution-attempts-botched
For the record I’m against the death penalty for the simple fact our government isn’t sufficiently evolved enough to be trusted with the power of life and death over its citizens.
They wield it regardless.
If the choices are wrongfully locking me up with the absolute worst elements of society for the rest of my life or ending my life, just shoot me.
As far as failed attempts, if at first you don't succeed, try try try again.
CP is one of the few controversial issues I have changed my mind on back and forth over the years, finally settling on against for the reason you state as well as others. However, if it exists, it's a mystery why they can't figure that one out. Vets have been putting animals down with no pain and close to 100% success for decades and decades. Overdose deaths reached a record high in 2021, over 100K deaths, mostly due to fentanyl. It's dirt cheap, massive dose = bye bye quickly and without pain, and done.
As is, they use chems that are very difficult to obtain and very $, because few companies want to be involved with producing chems that kill people.
This one is not rocket science.
Yep, honestly if you are gonna check me out, jack me up on opiods and then keep upping to dosage until I'm gone.
Give you an example: let's say they actually catch this POS who brutally killed those 4 Idaho students, and there is solid evidence linking him to the crime. Once tried and convicted, maybe one appeal, then (family's choice) he gets either gutted or shot in the forehead, not from behind (so he can SEE it coming). I don't give a damn if mommy didn't love him enough, if daddy stuck his finger up his ass, chicks rejected him as repulsive, whatever. You DIE.
It's only a botched execution if the convict doesn't die. Hung by the neck until dead does not prescribe a time limit for death to occur and I don't have a problem with it taking an hour or so.
Averageman
12-16-22, 23:26
I live in a small Texas town.
150 years ago this was the Chislom trail. Small quiet town, just beautiful little place, but they had a reputation with the Cowboys.
Aparently long ago a Deputy stepped in to a Saloon that was accross from the Courthouse and was immeadiatly shot (and for no apparent reason) by a Cowboy. Someone ran to get the Sherriff in the Courthouse and by the time he made it the 200 yards to the Saloon that Cowboy had already been hung.
That's Justice, he didn't get any appeals or an Attorney, everyone in the Bar saw it happen, so they got a lariat and hung him on the spot. A lariat isn't like a hangmans noose, your going to be there a minute and choke to death most likely.
After that for 130 years you couldn't buy a drop of booze in this town, he deserved to be hung just for that alone.
Give you an example: let's say they actually catch this POS who brutally killed those 4 Idaho students, and there is solid evidence linking him to the crime. Once tried and convicted, maybe one appeal, then (family's choice) he gets either gutted or shot in the forehead, not from behind (so he can SEE it coming). I don't give a damn if mommy didn't love him enough, if daddy stuck his finger up his ass, chicks rejected him as repulsive, whatever. You DIE.
I agree, but the inherent problem is the flawed system.
Probably no better example than the Duke LaCrosse case where DA Mike Nifong KNOWINGLY suppressed DNA evidence that would have (and eventually did) exonerated the defendants. If not for some random lab worker who risked their government job and blew the whistle, the system probably would have found every single one of them guilty and destroyed their lives and futures.
For his attempt at destroying their lives, Nifong was disbarred and and sentenced to ONE DAY in jail for contempt of court. He was held alone in a cell for his protection. Nifong's motive was to win support for his reelection bid; the suit alleges that Nifong told his campaign manager that the case would provide "'millions of dollars' in free advertising."
So long as lawyers aren't held accountable for "knowingly" prosecuting innocent people and "knowingly" suppressing evidence of guilt, we will have a flawed system.
I'm Ok with execution, firing squad could be the way to do it.
I agree, but the inherent problem is the flawed system.
Probably no better example than the Duke LaCrosse case where DA Mike Nifong KNOWINGLY suppressed DNA evidence that would have (and eventually did) exonerated the defendants. If not for some random lab worker who risked their government job and blew the whistle, the system probably would have found every single one of them guilty and destroyed their lives and futures.
For his attempt at destroying their lives, Nifong was disbarred and and sentenced to ONE DAY in jail for contempt of court. He was held alone in a cell for his protection. Nifong's motive was to win support for his reelection bid; the suit alleges that Nifong told his campaign manager that the case would provide "'millions of dollars' in free advertising."
So long as lawyers aren't held accountable for "knowingly" prosecuting innocent people and "knowingly" suppressing evidence of guilt, we will have a flawed system.
Yeah, I get it. Nifong should've served a sentence equal to that for rape like those guys would have been sentenced to. Same with those cops in Illinois I mentioned earlier who, through their criminal behavior, wrongly sent people to death row and now the state has abolished the death penalty altogether.
It is indeed a tricky road to travel. Obvious guilt should get the needle without hesitation, like that little freak POS Cruz in Florida who isn't going to get what he deserves. There was no doubt about who perpetrated the crime. The Idaho killer is going to be (hopefully) caught but it is going to be a built-up or constructed case as no one saw it happen and no security cameras like in a murder of a convenience store clerk. I have mixed feelings about that, as there can be a sliver of doubt. DNA evidence? Kinda hesitant to send someone to the gallows for that alone.
I dunno. You can't replace a life if you wrongly take it, but damn there are some so truly deserving of death that it's hard to totally rule out that option altogether.
DNA evidence? Kinda hesitant to send someone to the gallows for that alone.
Very much so because the scientific community claim of getting to the facts/truth has never quite lived up to advertised claims and that issue is well represented in the criminal justice scientific sub group.
One of the first examples of that problem making news I can recall, although(based on my memory) I don't think this article gets the details of how this was exposed correctly.
https://www.theintelligencer.com/news/article/FBI-Scientist-to-Plead-Guilty-to-Lying-10552786.php
In lieu of the death penalty I propose that family members of the victim get 5 minutes each with a ball peen hammer and the convicted murderer. How/if they decide to administer punishment is up to them.
I'm with the fentanyl crowd and the executioner should be a hard core fentanyl user so that they both go out without a care in the world. My second option would be a bullet to the back of the head performed by a robot with a 3-D printed pistol so that no firearms manufacturer gets raked over the coals for providing the means of execution. Just a thought.
Averageman
12-19-22, 16:04
I spent the night in a remote field hospital one night, due to the extream pain they gave me Morphine.
If I had to die, that's exactly how I want to go out a large morphine drip and slowly slide out the door.
It's as comfortable is falling asleep in a feather bed covered in quilts.
Which is a lot more than most of these guys deserve.
Grand58742
12-20-22, 22:09
I'm perfectly fine bringing back the old and making it new...
No reason the guillotine couldn't be just as efficient today as it was in the 18th century. And with improvements in metallurgy, probably more so.
Fast, efficient and inexpensive. No need to have to wait on chemicals that may or may not do the job nor using electricity that comes from questionable fossil fuels.
Without passing judgment on the merits of the death penalty, I have to point out that a 35% failure rate means we’re still batting 650. We’d win either league’s batting championship with that.
I spent the night in a remote field hospital one night, due to the extream pain they gave me Morphine.
If I had to die, that's exactly how I want to go out a large morphine drip and slowly slide out the door.
It's as comfortable is falling asleep in a feather bed covered in quilts.
Which is a lot more than most of these guys deserve.That's probably how it should be. No muss no fuss, just done. We can still permanently remove them from society and it wont be cruel or *unusual. No hand wringing or pearl clutching ....and it's 100 percent organic!
I know some will not be happy unless the guilty are made to suffer. Who wants to take the time to care? I think the suffering will be in how much of "not a big deal" it is while being administered your lethal injection with near assembly line speed and little fanfare, like stock animals. A subtle slap across the face on their way out the door
* Especially not cruel or unusual under democrats who seem to thrive on people being able to shoot up and fall over where ever they please.
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ChattanoogaPhil
12-21-22, 13:45
“Several were agonisingly drawn out as officials tried to secure a vein through which to inject lethal drugs, leading lawyers to describe the process as a form of torture. Others were carried out in violation of state protocols. “
Torture? Oh please… I’ve been at Vanderbilt hospital where it took several attempts to “secure a vein”. Unpleasant, yes. Torture, no. Describing as such is torturing reality.
Put a 12ga slug in the perp’s melon. That should sufficiently relax the perp so that any difficulty finding a vein won’t be torturous. sigh….
A .50 BMG round still retails around $4 - $5. One round to the forehead will result in immediate cessation of all brain activity and neurological functions. You can't even buy enough rope to hang a man that cheap.
CP is one of the few controversial issues I have changed my mind on back and forth over the years, finally settling on against for the reason you state as well as others. However, if it exists, it's a mystery why they can't figure that one out. Vets have been putting animals down with no pain and close to 100% success for decades and decades. Overdose deaths reached a record high in 2021, over 100K deaths, mostly due to fentanyl. It's dirt cheap, massive dose = bye bye quickly and without pain, and done.
As is, they use chems that are very difficult to obtain and very $, because few companies want to be involved with producing chems that kill people.
This one is not rocket science.
The chemical that kills is cheap and readily available. You can make it at home, or buy it off the shelf as sodium free salt
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