View Full Version : ? on fentanyl
platoonDaddy
12-17-22, 22:43
Is it really a panic attack or is it really serious?
Police in the United States have told implausible stories about airborne fentanyl exposures for years. The real symptoms appear related to panic attacks and the psychological trauma of policing
https://www.leidenlawblog.nl/articles/police-panic-and-fentanyl
El Vaquero
12-17-22, 22:56
In the pretty large metropolitan area I work have not heard of any accounts of officers having been exposed to fentanyl to the point where they needed Narcan or other immediate medical intervention. We have had officers go to the hospital after exposure out of precaution but not because they were in distress. And fentanyl is pretty common around my parts. I remember several years ago when the fentanyl hype started to hit the DEA sent out bulletins warning officers about exposures and how micrograms could kill you etc. They dialed it back several months later but the damage was done. It got everyone worked up thinking it was gonna kill you. We even purchased N95 masks for our cars just in case officers came across suspected fentanyl. And this was pre-COVID.
What’s Really Going on in Those Police Fentanyl Exposure Videos?
It’s nearly impossible for an overdose to be caused by brief contact with the drug. It is possible these videos will worsen the danger for those truly at risk.
Transdermal injection takes hours to reach any appreciable level, it’s the most inefficient way of introducing medication into the human body.
These types of incidents have been thoroughly debunked by an army of doctors and pharmacists... it’s just panic attacks.
As one doctor put it, if fentanyl was this dangerous we would have a shitload of dead doctors, nurses and paramedics...
I'm at a loss on it really...you have these crazy LE episodes were they need to take narcan to save themselves from merely touching / sniffing it like it was instant death from mere exposure. No follow up on how it got into their system.
Yet the crap we actually catch coming SOTB is ENTIRELY minuscule in comparison to what passes / publicly consumed...they tell us 1/100th of a pill will kill you but millions upon millions of pills are crossing & junkies are laughing as they toss them back by the handfull.
Seriously, the media tries sell fentanyl as an equal to cyanide, yet never address the real issue of it's addiction & how much the junkie can actually consume to survive another day. Asinine.
We had a thread on this over a year ago.
If it was true, the drug problem would be FIXED by now. I WISH handling fentanyl was so potentially lethal.
platoonDaddy
12-18-22, 03:09
Officer in Florida was administered three doses of NARCAN and transported to the hospital. Panic attack?
It’s hard, because I’m helpless,” Bannick said. “I’ve (administered NARCAN) to a hundred people before and now, I needed it.”
Bannick said she doesn’t remember most of the moments captured on body camera video but chose to release the footage to show the dangerous effects of fentanyl.
“We’re not dealing with pharmaceutical grade fentanyl,” she said. “Every day these street chemists are coming up with something because drug users are building a tolerance to it.”
Now fully recovered, Bannick said she’s thankful for the quick thinking of her fellow officers.
https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2022/12/15/i-couldnt-breathe-tavares-officer-who-overdosed-in-traffic-stop-recounts-fentanyl-exposure/
Officer in Florida was administered three doses of NARCAN and transported to the hospital. Panic attack?
https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2022/12/15/i-couldnt-breathe-tavares-officer-who-overdosed-in-traffic-stop-recounts-fentanyl-exposure/
I suppose if some people are deathly allergic to peanut butter, it's possible that some people can't handle any exposure to fentanyl. Or it could all be psychosomatic, how many people do we know who are convinced they have a glutten intolerance but really can't even tell you what a glutten actually is. But there they are, buying glutten free pasta in the store so they don't die.
Would they even know if you pulled a pepsi challenge?
Officer in Florida was administered three doses of NARCAN and transported to the hospital. Panic attack?
https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2022/12/15/i-couldnt-breathe-tavares-officer-who-overdosed-in-traffic-stop-recounts-fentanyl-exposure/
She wanted the body cam footage released, but the tox screen would be better.
I'm at a loss on it really...you have these crazy LE episodes were they need to take narcan to save themselves from merely touching / sniffing it like it was instant death from mere exposure. No follow up on how it got into their system.
The assisting officers administering first aid with no gloves on to their "drug contaminated" colleagues somehow don't have the same problem.
You know how much fent I've dribbled down my hands and arms drawing it out of vials over 30 years?? Or back when we made our own infusions before pharmacy made them that leaked? I think all these claims are bullshit.
That cop in Florida, it sounds like she inhaled some, so I can see having some effect from that.
What’s Really Going on in Those Police Fentanyl Exposure Videos?
Transdermal injection takes hours to reach any appreciable level, it’s the most inefficient way of introducing medication into the human body.
These types of incidents have been thoroughly debunked by an army of doctors and pharmacists... it’s just panic attacks.
As one doctor put it, if fentanyl was this dangerous we would have a shitload of dead doctors, nurses and paramedics...
This.
We don't give fentanyl "transdermal" in the skin. There are fentanyl patches that you have to change ... every 72 hours.
However, you can absorb via inhalation.
Only really need narcan if your respiratory rate drops or you pass out. Which clearly nearly none of those LE did.
I suppose the media gets stuff wrong and it could be carfentanyl, or similar, in some cases.
What’s Really Going on in Those Police Fentanyl Exposure Videos?
Transdermal injection takes hours to reach any appreciable level, it’s the most inefficient way of introducing medication into the human body.
These types of incidents have been thoroughly debunked by an army of doctors and pharmacists... it’s just panic attacks.
As one doctor put it, if fentanyl was this dangerous we would have a shitload of dead doctors, nurses and paramedics...
Opioids cause the opposite of panic attacks, and you feel great on an opioid. Too good in fact as you don't care you stopped breathing... Easy answer, why don't they do a tox screen on them to show they were exposed to it?
The accidental exposure argument, primarily transdermal but also inhalation, has been a key to placing narcan/naloxone in police vehicles. Especially in places and admins more resistant to that stuff.
Also used to a lesser extent in schools. Stronger argument in schools is emotive, little johnny getting into mommy's pills at home and arresting in class. Reality is that it's a staff member intentionally or accidentally misusing meds.
The accidental exposure argument, primarily transdermal but also inhalation, has been a key to placing narcan/naloxone in police vehicles. Especially in places and admins more resistant to that stuff.
Also used to a lesser extent in schools. Stronger argument in schools is emotive, little johnny getting into mommy's pills at home and arresting in class. Reality is that it's a staff member intentionally or accidentally misusing meds.
Meanwhile, Prescription medications are responsible for more overdose deaths than all illicit drugs combined.
Kids dying of accidents by firearms are quite rare statically speaking, yet, states have passed laws to force people to lock up their guns.
Meanwhile, there's no laws I'm aware of requiring parents to not leave meds out, which kill far more. "Every year in USA, almost 500,000 children under the age of five are exposed to the risk of drug poisoning. Every year, around 60,000 children are treated in emergency rooms as a result of unsupervised ingestions. (Superuser, 2012)"
I suspect those figures went up since 2012, but I didn't look. You can't legislate common sense.
Officer in Florida was administered three doses of NARCAN and transported to the hospital. Panic attack?
https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2022/12/15/i-couldnt-breathe-tavares-officer-who-overdosed-in-traffic-stop-recounts-fentanyl-exposure/
Officer Bannick has an interesting imagination based on another incident.
https://www.wftv.com/news/local/9-investigates-tavares-police-officer-files-grievance-with-city-over-double-demotion/RTVYUTTAQBCDFGIU5FFDHRG7PA/
This.
We don't give fentanyl "transdermal" in the skin. There are fentanyl patches that you have to change ... every 72 hours.
However, you can absorb via inhalation.
Only really need narcan if your respiratory rate drops or you pass out. Which clearly nearly none of those LE did.
I suppose the media gets stuff wrong and it could be carfentanyl, or similar, in some cases.
To clarify your point, carfentanyl overdose would have the same toxidrome.
These overdoses don’t appear to be overdoses. The symptoms are consistent with panic attacks. I don’t believe that Narcan was indicated.
VX got nuttin on fentanyl brah.
Gotta be psychosomatic panic attack. I mean seriously, johnny dealer handled how many of those pills? For how many hours? But officers brush a gloved hand on the baggie and BOOM!
I deal with fentanyl pills on pretty much a daily basis. Pills here run between 1-3 bucks a pill depending on the dealer and how much are in the pills. They have started coloring them to indicate different dosages of fentanyl. The pills are fine to handle as they are mostly filler. Not that Im purposely handling them bare handed. If you run across powdered fentanyl you need to be careful. Inhaling that can put you out. The only actual cases of guys at work going down for fentanyl exposure has been with powder form that got blown in their face somehow. But that's only happened a few times over the last 3 or 4 years since fentanyl has taken over.
The pills or "blues" are still killing people left and right. Ive personally used narcan on 3 people and have been there and seen other officers or fire give it out dozens of times.
To clarify your point, carfentanyl overdose would have the same toxidrome.
These overdoses don’t appear to be overdoses. The symptoms are consistent with panic attacks. I don’t believe that Narcan was indicated.
Agreed, point is that lower exposure dose could cause symptoms. But yes, the toxidrome is not consistent.
As for the claim that the officer might have inhaled it, a study from the American College of Medical Toxicology and American Academy of Clinical Toxicology calculated that a person would have to stand next to a massive amount of fentanyl for two and a half hours to feel its effects.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5711758/
At the highest airborne concentration encountered by workers, an unprotected individual would require nearly 200 min of exposure to reach a dose of 100 mcg of fentanyl.
There's a difference between standing next to a pile and having the powder blown in your face.
robstercraw
12-18-22, 16:30
Total panic attack. Isnt it funny when we hear these stories of cops falling out being exposed to "fentanyl" we never hear about the subsequent toxicology or anything beyond that. She had a total panic attack. Makes me question her ability to be on the street to be honest. Falls in line pretty much with the new hires of late. Glad I'm on my way out the door after 28 years.
Interesting that they left her armed and hallucinating.
The Dumb Gun Collector
12-18-22, 18:08
I have to reeducate prosecutors and judges in this every six months. LE organizations love this myth for various reasons.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5711758/
At the highest airborne concentration encountered by workers, an unprotected individual would require nearly 200 min of exposure to reach a dose of 100 mcg of fentanyl.
Which is a pretty standard dose for the "average 70kg person."
My gut feel...Panic attack (with three paid days off for your trouble)
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