View Full Version : Second AR: 20” AR15a4 or 16” middie?
So as of right now the only AR I have is a 16” colt 6920. It has been extremely reliable and accurate for my needs, overall I’m satisfied with it. I’ve been getting the urge for a second AR that could serve as a backup or second shooter, and I’ve been looking at two options - either a 16” midlength colt 6960 or 20” ar15a4. With the 16” middie, I get a backup rifle, that fills the same role as the 6920, and may or may not be softer shooting than the 6920. With the 20” rifle, I get a softer shooting rifle with maximum velocity, but is longer and less maneuverable in close quarters.
I guess what I’m asking is, if I choose the 20” over the 16” middie, am I giving up a lot? Although I do have the carbine niche filled by my 6920, I would want to have the option for any of my guns to be able to serve SHTF/defensive duty if needed to. Does the a4’s length preclude it from being able to serve that role?
The A4 rifle can definitely be used in CQB roles. A large portion of GWOT was fought with M16A4s. I carried a full size rifle in 2005 for my second tour in Iraq.
A shorter carbine is definitely easier to use in tight quarters but that dosnt make the rifle impossible. The big issue is doorways and tight hallways. Even a 16 inch gun can have issues there. But using techniques like short stocking (putting your stock up on top of your shoulder or under your arm pit) can help in those situations.
Im not trying to say you should buy the 20 inch over the middy. Though everyone should have a 20 inch rifle, they are awesome. But dont discount it just because it's a little longer. Is it harder in tight quarters? yes. But it's not THAT bad.
I have no use for a 20" AR. All of mine are 16". But that’s just me.
20 inch rifles are great, although you do risk the "Hey Boomer" remarks at the range :D
My 6960 is no softer shooting than my 6920s. I agree that 20" rifles are great, and if that's what you want to get, then don't let people on the Internet make your decision for you.
My 20" includes the A1-ish barrel that was available from Brownells a few years ago. With the MOE handguard and buttstock, carry handle rear sight, and no installed light, it's among my lighter ARs.
For 5.56mm ARs, I have (2) 11.5”, (3) 16” and (1) 20”.
The 16” are all carbine gas length… to include one Colt 6920 (only factory built AR I own). If I had just the Colt, I’d either look for a 11.5” pistol or 20”. Main reason, why multiples when you can have something different? Get the 20” and see if you like it. Worst case, trade/sell the upper for a midlength 16”. I would likely lean to a 11.5” pistol more… but that depends on legal status where you reside.
My 20” is a NM upper, which I have on a binary lower with a 1-6x LPVO. It’s fun, but 20” ARs are very smooth shooting.
I have a 16” .22 AR that I plan on selling… once I do, I’ll likely get one more 20”. It will be one of those Fulton A1 models, likely the 601 version. Why? I want a retro rifle and might as well go unique than just an A1 build. Only plus is I’m not stuck with the original twist rate, as 1:8” is available as an upgrade.
For 5.56mm ARs, I have (2) 11.5”, (3) 16” and (1) 20”.
The 16” are all carbine gas length… to include one Colt 6920 (only factory built AR I own). If I had just the Colt, I’d either look for a 11.5” pistol or 20”. Main reason, why multiples when you can have something different? Get the 20” and see if you like it. Worst case, trade/sell the upper for a midlength 16”. I would likely lean to a 11.5” pistol more… but that depends on legal status where you reside.
My 20” is a NM upper, which I have on a binary lower with a 1-6x LPVO. It’s fun, but 20” ARs are very smooth shooting.
I have a 16” .22 AR that I plan on selling… once I do, I’ll likely get one more 20”. It will be one of those Fulton A1 models, likely the 601 version. Why? I want a retro rifle and might as well go unique than just an A1 build. Only plus is I’m not stuck with the original twist rate, as 1:8” is available as an upgrade.
I really do want the 20” for that smooth shooting experience - everybody I’ve talked to and online really emphasizes that aspect.
If it were me…. Get the 6920 cut down to 11.5” and buy the 6960.
A 20” AR should either be a true heavy barrel for precision or A1 pencil profile.
If it were me…. Get the 6920 cut down to 11.5” and buy the 6960.
A 20” AR should either be a true heavy barrel for precision or A1 pencil profile.
I personally don’t wanna get into NFA shenanigans at this point in time.
Then, a 20” precision barrel seems like it would actually be “different” from what you already have.
The 20” is not ideal in and around structures and vehicles but it can still be a decent self defense tool. Just keep the weight down.
A 20” AR should either be a true heavy barrel for precision or A1 pencil profile.
Never go full HBAR unless it’s just for bench shooting, but this is solid advice.
I like an A1 profile 20”, I can tolerate a plain A2 or A4, but not the A4 clone with heavy rail.
I would say go for what gives you capability and use with your needs. I have a 14.5 GP rifle that does everything fine, but is master of none. Then I a dedicated DMR type AR10 in 308, a 16" BCM Recce with a 1-6x, a 11.3 that I can use for home defense or is more easily wield when suppressed. I have M16A4 clone as well, but that is more nostalgic then practical, however, I can easily mount a 2-10x and use it in that role if need be. If you want something for nostalgia, and are fine with you 6920 then so be it.
20
https://64.media.tumblr.com/7c07bd227b1f196e083e5077bae886e2/a8ba6414b4343368-75/s1280x1920/77a8be68c2eed6725e81301b9fe1ff44fdbe6e88.jpg
20
https://64.media.tumblr.com/7c07bd227b1f196e083e5077bae886e2/a8ba6414b4343368-75/s1280x1920/77a8be68c2eed6725e81301b9fe1ff44fdbe6e88.jpg
That is a sexy rifle. I do for whatever reason have a KAC RAS that I plan to put on the a4 if I buy it.
How far can you shoot? I can only get to 700 yards regularly, so a 20" is useless for me. Id suggest a 16" precision build with a mpvo for something different.
Do you have good optics on your current rifle?
MA2_Navy_Veteran
12-18-22, 15:05
Get the 20".... and a proper pistol, because for CQB/SD situations, nothing is more practical for use in a tight space such as from a closet, under a bed, from within a vehicle, or around a wall/corner/barricade.
Not sure of the type of area you live in, but the extra 4" of barrel (over a 16") that the 20" gives you will gain you a few more fps from whatever ammo you are using (at whatever range the target you are using it on), and when it comes to ARs - You definately want all the speed that you can get from your ammunition.
As for SHTF sits, (where laws basically no longer apply) a 20" is also great for shooting out of windows, or from atop of buildings/roofs. Just some things to consider.
MA2
Hammer_Man
12-18-22, 18:08
You already have a 16” carbine, and 20” guns are so much fun to shoot.
Everyone should own a 20".
I was going to pick up a 20" but went with 18" Faxon gunner. Very happy with it wearing a 3x TA33. Light weight and soft shooting.
Is it bad that one of the reasons I want a 20” is just for the aesthetics of being able to stick a bayonet on the thing?
Is it bad that one of the reasons I want a 20” is just for the aesthetics of being able to stick a bayonet on the thing?
It would be bad if you didnt want that
MA2_Navy_Veteran
12-18-22, 21:42
Is it bad that one of the reasons I want a 20” is just for the aesthetics of being able to stick a bayonet on the thing?
Maybe this will help inspire you...
https://www.m4carbine.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=49749&d=1515887065
MA2_Navy_Veteran
12-18-22, 21:52
Keep in mind that the bayonet asthetics of an A4 aren't near as nice as those of the US Civil War era... (1863 Springfield Rifle/Musket w/bayonet), though it's not all that great for room clearing however lol...
https://www.m4carbine.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=49748&d=1515887065
Just sayin...
MA2
hotbiggun42
12-18-22, 22:14
Ive owned several 20" ARs i finally sold them as i never shot them. Go midlength.
Everyone should own a 20".
At least one.
It doesn't have to be complicated or fancy. Even a 1-7 "M16A1" taper barrel with an ACOG or 1-4.5X LPVO, shooting 77s will take you to at least 800 yards.
In its simplest form:
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/18978/creedmoot_book_jpg-2640842.JPG
Is it bad that one of the reasons I want a 20” is just for the aesthetics of being able to stick a bayonet on the thing?
You don’t need to convince anyone but you.
If you want a practical GP backup the 20” is fine, but I’d keep it on the lighter side.
You could go silly and get a baby 16 that might be a 20" when it grows up!!
https://64.media.tumblr.com/b02de1c15439c5dfd1e396978b6959e5/3725be53b6fe6abd-65/s1280x1920/3d1557439bed9b3a335d0e1ed4482b7cbd5ff342.jpg
Or you could go old school 20" green....
https://64.media.tumblr.com/8ef59dda81041290ae016b7d7ba7f42d/486c6352405b60b8-6c/s1280x1920/f9684208684b912286b4b995677cff726c6fd285.jpg
Though black is slimming!!
https://64.media.tumblr.com/6de83e2b41ff42703d598f82c07fcb4a/dbea3d2672f56ee3-9e/s1280x1920/0d012541c8217c26ebb676503770bdbc19dd4014.jpg
If you are thinking about how the 20" pulls at your heart strings, there are more flavors than just the above. You can go flat top, or carry handle.
https://64.media.tumblr.com/d60d056c85596c15dce57dd0c2b8b606/a5bf2054e1990ab1-c8/s1280x1920/93e97c497e9c01ca50d52de948114f3ad5fb2ecf.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/92ec3fc1d17fe0d750dad27127fdb131/d7d52c9f1dcee1f1-b6/s1280x1920/7e6cd5cd107d4e7907cdc40f67b9ed3f257218e0.jpg
If you like the look, but want to stay shorter, you can go with a Dissipator...
https://64.media.tumblr.com/e202b102a8e107c21127a321dc5c48b6/38f0621101aacb73-bd/s1280x1920/08c9a944f4430a714da22598f098c0250b678683.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/19b894c30be84bd38ffe64ec9b469613/a1470d55f4b254fc-c8/s1280x1920/0401c59def521e33f13554992c385d2fffebfd67.jpg
You could get funky and get an 18", and everyone would still tell you it was a 20".... With a folding front sight you could keep people confused forever!
https://64.media.tumblr.com/e484fc503b0a1dd4b3d29ffce4fb787d/75237aea50cfe866-cd/s1280x1920/7886ed1144c211eb4c1d4f62b397f716f45822c3.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/7ed3cb124247409ac90b79dc7905acf4/565446aec0815525-63/s1280x1920/24ed699b6f90236c833dfe295b1f56cfdd31c8d4.jpg
If you picked up an 18" upper, you could use it with the lower you already have, or get a fixed stock for it.
https://64.media.tumblr.com/eeaccbd2ebf3a05c270b3204c826eb06/tumblr_p7k3gkHDcT1rrcg2fo1_1280.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/2b8726bb5eca92cd85a17619cd300a49/tumblr_pcjeskz8LC1rrcg2fo1_1280.jpg
Is it bad that one of the reasons I want a 20” is just for the aesthetics of being able to stick a bayonet on the thing?
Also works with a 16" midlength or (of course) a 14.5/14.7" carbine.
Andy
HelloLarry
12-22-22, 10:29
Sorry so late to this, but get a 20" CMP-legal rifle and start shooting CMP Highpower.
Hammer_Man
12-22-22, 17:24
A MK12 clone would be pretty sweet.
If you are thinking about how the 20" pulls at your heart strings, there are more flavors than just the above. You can go flat top, or carry handle.
https://64.media.tumblr.com/d60d056c85596c15dce57dd0c2b8b606/a5bf2054e1990ab1-c8/s1280x1920/93e97c497e9c01ca50d52de948114f3ad5fb2ecf.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/92ec3fc1d17fe0d750dad27127fdb131/d7d52c9f1dcee1f1-b6/s1280x1920/7e6cd5cd107d4e7907cdc40f67b9ed3f257218e0.jpg
I never wanted a 20" but that flat top just hits the right notes. I suppose I could find some room...
Get a 20" Your 6920 will last you the rest of your life. I stocked up on a couple additional 6920s in '14 when they were cheap, but they haven't even come out of the box yet. I'm still trying my darndest to shoot out the barrel of my first one that I bought in '13. I built a 16" BCM lightweight middy years ago too and I've brought it out a few times, but the novelty wore off and now I just always bring the original 6920 out. None of the other 16" rifles are different enough to bother. If I had a 20" though I think it would be different. Buy the 20 so you have something different enough to be interesting to shoot. Another 16" will probably just end up staying at home.
Another vote for a 20. I did a 20” upper BCM build with an 18” KMA rail to keep it slick and light. Mounted a Vortex 1-8. It is a tack driver.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sorry so late to this, but get a 20" CMP-legal rifle and start shooting CMP Highpower.
I’ve been interested ever since going to an Appleseed class with the 6920. I know I won’t be placing at the top with a stock a4 with carry handle (and definitely not just because of the rifle), but would a stock a4 with carry handle, maybe a match trigger, and some 77 grain pills be enough to get my feet wet?
For those just wanting that "old school" look, Windham has their "A1 Government" model. Basically a hodgepodge of A1 and A2 features - fixed carry handle with A1 rear sights, A1 pistol grip and handguards, the newer ones have an A1-length buttstock. Government profile barrel with 1:7 twist, M4-style feed ramps, brass deflector.
These are currently hard to come by, except for sites like Gunbroker, etc. Evidently Windham has trouble sourcing fixed carry handle forgings - everything's flattop nowadays.
https://i.imgur.com/PrmbrXEl.jpg
I’ve been interested ever since going to an Appleseed class with the 6920. I know I won’t be placing at the top with a stock a4 with carry handle (and definitely not just because of the rifle), but would a stock a4 with carry handle, maybe a match trigger, and some 77 grain pills be enough to get my feet wet?Add a free-float tube (like a Daniel Defense Omega 12.0 not requiring any gunsmithing or alteration) and you can go Distinguished and into The President's Hundred.
It's not about hardware.
Marine Reserve Staff Sergeant Harry Harrison bought an off-the-rack National Match Armalite A2 rifle at Camp Perry and won the 2000 NRA National Service Rifle Championships with it.
Shoot! I forgot about that Appleseed deal. I remember wanting to shoot that thing years ago. Now we're blessed enough to be able to shoot long distance every weekend. I'm busting out the irons tomorrow!
The A4 rifle can definitely be used in CQB roles. A large portion of GWOT was fought with M16A4s. I carried a full size rifle in 2005 for my second tour in Iraq.
A shorter carbine is definitely easier to use in tight quarters but that dosnt make the rifle impossible. The big issue is doorways and tight hallways. Even a 16 inch gun can have issues there. But using techniques like short stocking (putting your stock up on top of your shoulder or under your arm pit) can help in those situations.
Im not trying to say you should buy the 20 inch over the middy. Though everyone should have a 20 inch rifle, they are awesome. But dont discount it just because it's a little longer. Is it harder in tight quarters? yes. But it's not THAT bad.
great post, spot on
not to mention, those 20" barrels are more devastating leading to greater wound channels and let's not for body armor, which shorter barrels struggle with penetration
not to mention, those 20" barrels are more devastating leading to greater wound channels and let's not for body armor, which shorter barrels struggle with penetration
True. But if you're not stuck using M193 or M855 a short barrel with good bullets is even better. (I used to be a die hard 20" AR with M193 guy who swore 77 gr bullets were absurd)
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